Author Joyce Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 Moose Thank you but I don't wish to hurt him. Ladyjane14 Did he hit you once or did it happen a lot? Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 One incident. Muliple hits. And you know, I UNDERSTOOD how frustrated he was. I even sympathized with him. I felt SOOOOOO bad for what I had done, that it was even somehow cathartic. Even though to this day I can't excuse myself for it. But I left him anyway. It was best for him too, I think. It's an indelible lesson that I'm sure he carried away with him, never to hit a woman. It's not even the thought that he might have done it again that made me leave. It was the fact that he had done it once, and I was predisposed to leave if ever that happened. Hard to explain. Pre-programmed from childhood I suppose. If he hits, you leave. I never thought about it twice. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Joyce I spent a bit of time with an abusive guy. I gave him two chances. The first time, he grabbed me by the front of my sweatshirt so hard he left a bruise on my upper chest. That time, I picked up my cup of tea (by then quite cool tea) and splashed him with it to make him let me go. He did and apologized. He was very quick to anger and very impatient at everything and everybody, including inanimate things so it appeared he did have anger problems. The second time, he got mad at whatever (I don't recall the reasons he got mad because he got mad at everything) and I was trying to talk to him. It wasn't working so I said I'd leave the room until he calmed down (we had already agreed that that's what we'd do if we got angry). He blocked me from leaving the room and, when I picked up the phone to call 911, he yanked the phone out of the wall and grabbed my wrist so hard, he bruised me. Then he let go. The call had gone through before he pulled out the phone, so the police arrived (talk about feeling surreal - police - responding to a violence call in my home!!!). The police talked to him and it seemed to calm him down. I had to go out that evening and did and he was remorseful afterward. I hoped the encounter with the police had thrown a scare into him for good. But I put together my emergency plan and was ready to go if it happened again. A couple weeks later, it did. We were talking about something, and he started getting very critical, and then very nasty again. I tried to talk to him calmly, but he was obviously becoming more and more agitated. He mentioned being upset that I had called the police on him. Then he picked up a glass of coke and threw it at the wall. Thank God the phone rang and one of his friends called. While he was on the phone, I went to the basement and got my little bag. It was easy to get from there to the back door. I knew he'd hear the door open, so when my bag was out of sight, I poked my head in and told him I was just off to the store to pick something up. And I was gone. I ended up 'homeless' for three weeks - I was in a brand new city and knew few people there. These are the sorts of situations in which I'd recommend leaving. But I think everyone deserves one chance. Apparently, my dad hit my mom - once. She told him in no uncertain terms that if he did it ever again, she'd leave and he never did. But he did not have a bad temper, nor was he impatient or chronically angry. So if your guy is usually even-tempered and patient, this may well have been one freak event. Don't tell him you'll leave but have your emergency plan ready and if he ever does it again, go. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 @SoleMate: Aware that you weren't talking to me, but I'd ...{Deleted Inappropriate Commentary}. @Moose: Knock it off already. We get the point. {Personal Comment Deleted} I'm probably going to have the unpopular opinion here, but I say let it slide this time, Joyce. You did cheat on the guy. Not exactly the least damaging thing in the world. However, if it does continue (which I'm thinking it won't if you two can get to better understanding each other). Could he have handled his anger better? Yes. Should you leave? Maybe, but not because he cracked you the backhand. More along the lines of "because marriages generally suck after affairs". Does he need to go to jail and/or have Moose "get at him":rolleyes:? No. Honestly, I'm a firm believer in being able to give a woman a good slap if she truly deserves it. Read those last five words again. I don't agree with a guy pounding a woman to a bloody pulp, and I'm not saying you should slap a woman for any old thing, but if a woman does something really horrible to you... like cheat on you with your best friend or set your car on fire, by all means give the {deleted} the old Connery-Bond Five Finger Technique. You'll hear no call of foul from me. It's cliche to say this at this point, but I think it's silly women want to be treated the same as men, but somehow expect to be treated like delicate flowers when they screw people over. You know and I know that if a man who cheated on his wife came on a message board and said that his wife hit him, a bunch of women would pipe in saying he's a dirty dog anyway and got what he deserved. Aside from the fact that it's not usually an even match, I don't understand the logic. Fit guys beat up wimpy guys all the time. What's the difference? Because women have breasts and cry? o_O I mean technically, women are missing the one achilles heel that all men have, the family jewels...and women go for those all the time. Why isn't anyone crying "unfair" over that? I think someone should start a support group for testicle abuse. :X Rant over. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Please read this thread in the abuse section. This is about a man who was abused by his wife. Here's the link. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t48931/ It's by Heebiejeebies... Link to post Share on other sites
sassyone Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 My ex boyfriend was abusive and it was something i'll never understand. We were both fine , we had been dating for 7mths and we had just been invited to his best friends wedding where he was going to be best man. We were at the wedding reception and he started being really funny with me, shouting at me for silly things and telling me my hair looked crap. Then about 10 mins later all i did was light a cigerette and that was it...he threw a whole pint of beer over me and kicked me in the leg really badly. Everyone saw him do it, i was upset and ran to the bathroom upset and shocked and his best friend collared him and asked him exactly what he thought he was doing. They insisted i spent the night with them at the hotel away from him which did, hoping he would cool his head and come and apologise. He did the following morning and gave the same old excuse of "it was the drink" story. I let it drop and accepted his apology. Everything was fine for another few weeks until one night my friends came over to visit, he started acting really strange and wouldnt let any of them sit next to me or anything. Because they felt so uncomfortable they left, and i knew something was going to happen. He started shouting at me telling me he didnt want me associating with those people anymore and that my focus should have been on him the entire night. I defended myself and explained that not even my boyfriend had the right to tell me who i could and couldnt talk to and that if he didnt like them then it was just plain tough! I sure was paid for that comment with a smack around the head with a wooden kitchen chair. Before he could say anything i was on the phone to my parents to let them know i was on my way home and without picking any of my stuff up i walked out the house quickly. I never saw him again after my uncle went round and kicked the living daylight out of him. Don't ever believe that someone hits u because they love you, its all about them having control and dont ever think that there isnt a way out..theres always a way out no matter how much u love them! Link to post Share on other sites
bluetuesday Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Originally posted by Grinning Maniac I'm a firm believer in being able to give a woman a good slap if she truly deserves it. Read those last five words again. I don't agree with a guy pounding a woman to a bloody pulp, and I'm not saying you should slap a woman for any old thing, but if a woman does something really horrible to you... I think it's silly women want to be treated the same as men, but somehow expect to be treated like delicate flowers when they screw people over. You know and I know that if a man who cheated on his wife came on a message board and said that his wife hit him, a bunch of women would pipe in saying he's a dirty dog anyway and got what he deserved. Aside from the fact that it's not usually an even match, I don't understand the logic. Fit guys beat up wimpy guys all the time. What's the difference? Because women have breasts and cry? Joyce, what an upsetting situation. I'm sorry you're scared, no-one deserves that. I'm not a fan of violence, but it seems to me both you and your husband have expressed violence and disrespect in your relationship. Cheating on him will have felt exactly like an emotional slap in the chops. Every bit as painful as a literal slap but the bruises last longer. Cheating is an expression of total disregard for the feelings of the person you've sworn to protect, cherish and value. Your husband wants to forgive you but he is clearly angry and hurt and made a mistake and lashed out. Unless there are indications he is not sorry and is liable to do it again, I'd be inclined to stick around and work at it. I think what Grinning Maniac said was right. A woman does not deserve not to be hit purely on the basis of her gender. Sometimes we deserve it and I think cheating is one of those occasions. Being slapped once does not mean you are in an abusive relationship. It means there are unresolved issues and I think counselling, if you can him to agree to it, is a sensible option which shows you're willing to stick around and give it another go. Even if he won't commit to an appointment himself, make an appointment for you and stick to it. He'll see you're serious about working through this. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 I'm a firm believer in being able to give a woman a good slap if she truly deserves it. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but that makes ME want to RECONSIDER my earlier opinion on violence!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Being slapped once does not mean you are in an abusive relationship. What that means is that you're involved with a person who has NO self control. How scary is that?! Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Originally posted by Ladyjane14 What that means is that you're involved with a person who has NO self control. How scary is that?! Absolutely right! If I'm involved with a woman, she should have the self control to keep her legs clos--...oh, you meant the slapping thing. Sorry. Personally I think the lot of you who are shocked and outraged are sheep, no offence. Can any of you give me a reason why it's wrong aside from "she's a woman"? Hitting people isn't "right" in general, but people get the **** beat out of them every day and no one blinks twice. There arent any groups for saving guys from bar fights. But when a woman gets a slap, OHMYGOSH. Link to post Share on other sites
bluetuesday Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Originally posted by Ladyjane14 What that means is that you're involved with a person who has NO self control. How scary is that?! Sigh. No it doesn't. It means you're involved with a person who momentarily lost their self control under extremely difficult circumstances. A slap, however wrong, is a spur of the moment reaction to a hurtful situation. Cheating on your partner is a premeditated act which shows you care less about their feelings than you do about getting your jollies. Which in my opinion is far more scary. No-one is suggesting Joyce is a serial adulterer so why does everyone assume her husband is a serial abuser? Be fair and drop the hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Joyce: I am with those who suggest to forgive him this one time. I think moimeme's advice about not dumping him but having an emergence plane ready is great. Grinning Maniac: Personally I think the lot of you who are shocked and outraged are sheep, no offence. Can any of you give me a reason why it's wrong aside from "she's a woman"? If she is a woman, she probably has less strenght, less body mass, less muscolar mass. It's the "go try hit someone your size, you big man" reason. I make a big difference between hitting someone being careful not to phisically hurt him/her and giving someone bruises or a black eye. (like happened to Joyce) In reference to one of your posts, I think that a lady who hits a guys *in a way that actually damages him*(like, she does not just give him a very fleeble slap) -whether she goes for the family jewels or not- and expects to get away with it "because she has breasts and cries" is a form of life that is only slightly lower than a siphilitic rat. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Originally posted by bluetuesday A slap, however wrong, is a spur of the moment reaction to a hurtful situation. Cheating on your partner is a premeditated act which shows you care less about their feelings than you do about getting your jollies. Which in my opinion is far more scary. Damn! I KNEW there was something I had meant to say originally, but had forgotten. Good post, blue. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Joyce Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Wow lots of different opinions. Thank you for your replies and stories. I am still so confused. I know I mentally abused him. I am just scared of him physically. I slept next to him last night and just had nightmare after nightmare about my ex bf. I think more than anything it stirred really bad memories. My ex beat the sh*t out of me and raped me. I know my H would never rape me but I am scared that he could hit me again. I think am going to tell him that we need to get counseling and work on our issues or else we need to separate again. I am scared... Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Have you talked to him in depth since this incident? And does he know that you're having these 'flashbacks'? I find it really disturbing that there are folks who don't have a problem with women being hit by their SO's. Just so long as they have a good enough reason to be pissed off, I guess. It's different when you've been there, and had an angry man in your face and bent on mayhem. When you're 5'3" 120lbs and he's 6' 200lbs, and he's literally shaking in anger, and calling you filthy names. And his fists are balled up and you don't recognise the person that you knew, because that person is just gone and in his place is this out-of-control stranger. And then you KNOW that you can either accept the beating, or pick up an equalizer and up the ante. I think you have to ask yourself what is it that you'd tell your daughter, your sister, your mother? Would you tell her it was okay if it was just this once? Would you tell her that he had a right to do it because she had made him so angry? Is it possible that you are letting your guilt convince you that you deserve this kind of punishment? You did a wrong thing and you hurt him. Does letting him hit you once make it even? Or will he have to punish you a little more before the score is settled? When will you be punished enough? Are you getting counseling for yourself, btw? It might really help you to go and talk all this over with somebody. I think it's so important to try and redeem yourself when you make a mistake. It's good for the self-esteem to know that you did all you could to make it right. But you've just got to draw the line at physical hurt. It's not okay, and it's not going to solve anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Originally posted by Grinning Maniac If I'm involved with a woman.... Yeah! Good luck with that. It's obvious that you're a real gem! Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 hmmm... i hear lorena bobbitt may be available (sorry, couldn't resist....). grinning maniac, while i'm sure some of your points may have some (?) validity and everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinion, just curious how you feel about hitting kids? if they happen to do something you think is out of line and cruel to you does that justify the action? just trying to figure out where you draw the line. and i know as blue said... just a momentary lapse, so what if that happens with kids, tiny little people. we all "lose it" sometimes but learning to control yourself so that you don't hit another person, i don't care if they're larger or smaller, is not such a bad thing. i'd rather have someone yell at me than to hit me, or slap me. in any case joyce, only you are going to be able to assess the situation and decide if you're willing to take the risk. i don't ever think anyone should feel that there's a situation where it's ok. but i also know that as in any situation you are going to be the only one who may completely understand your relationship and whether or not you think he's capable to doing it again. i understand that you feel guilty, i understand that you feel that you wronged him, i understand that maybe in some way you feel you deserved it (you didn't) but it's never OK. although what i said above was more directed at grinning maniac, think about it as well, what if it had been one of your kids (and if you don't have them yet...just try to imagine). my ex grabbed my arms and bruised them several times, each time saying he was sorry, but heck they were just bruises on my arms, no big deal. imagine my horror when i saw the same hand marks on my less than one year old son's arms...... or had to stand in the ER (6 mos preg) with my ex while he lied about how he cut his hand? oh... the wind blew the door shut and he accidentally put his hand through trying to stop it. no he never gave me a black eye, but i still fear what i know his anger has the possibility of doing to him and to my kids. Link to post Share on other sites
veronese Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Joyce, I thought maybe it might help to hear this... I have been in several violent relationships, many years ago. Each time I beat a hasty retreat from the relationships at the first possible opportunity. I have been raped twice, once when I was a virgin. I have been attacked and, for want of a better word, kidnapped by an acquaintance. Fortunately the incident lasted only 12 hours or so, but during those hours I expected to be killed. I was so confused by the abuse there were times when I began to think maybe there was something in me that was causing these guys to become violent. The violence in the relationships and the attack by the acquaintance all were based on their desire to control me, dominate me, keep me. Their jealousy, supposedly driven by the depth of their love for me, was insane. Three of these guys threatened to commit suicide when I left them. One succeeded. I decided to take some time to work things out, identify why this was happening, see why I thought these guys were nice, get involved in a relationship, then ultimately realise I was dating a complete nutter! I wasn't causing this abuse, I realised that after a while, but I was to blame for getting myself into such dangerous situations. I wasn't reading the signs, I was naive, gullible, inexperienced and foolish. I avoided such men thereafter. I didn't entertain anyone with a hint of aggression or violent tendencies. I met my husband a few years later and we've been together 17 years now. He has never raised his hand to me, never threatened me or intimidated me, never scared me. I'd met my true love. But, 6 months ago he broke my heart, he'd been meeting up 3 other women for lunchtime drinks occasionally, he chatted to them on the phone. I was hurt by the lies and the deceit. I was shattered that he had played such a stupid game. They weren't passionate, sexual affairs, but nevertheless I was devastated. Joyce, I hated him so much those first fews days I alternated between wailing uncontrollably to feeling a strong need to hit the bastard! The loathing I felt for this man I adored was intense and shocking. I had to consciously restrain myself at times from getting anywhere near him, I honestly thought that should I lose control I would completely flip out and beat the crap out of him (he's 6'3", powerfully built, I'm 5'6"!). I was so angry, hurt, betrayed, shocked my desire to punch his face in had to be avoided at all costs - but boy, I SOOOO wanted to do it. My self control was exemplary - I told him how much I would like to punch him sometimes, told him that I hated him for what had happened, but my love for him was so strong we began to try to repair our marriage. But Joyce, a month or two passed, my crazy moods came and went but I did become more settled. One evening, out of the blue, I came downstairs after settling the children in bed, and a new mood had descended upon me. I was pissed off with him again. I asked him about these lunch dates, how many times had they met? He told me. I asked him how many times he'd taken me for lunch during that time. Never. Joyce, I punched him, square in the mouth, split his lip open. I'd let my guard down because my anger had subsided so much since those early days, and in that moment it came charging back with avengence and roared down my arm and into my hand. We were both shocked. I told him what I thought of him, made no apology, and left the house for an hour or so to calm down. I thought what I had done might trigger the end of us - it didn't. We're still together, I've had no more urges to whack him, and doubt I ever will do again. Joyce, your husband sounds like a nice guy. Your fears I think may be more to do with your ex partner's violence. What I've told you hear is something I'm ashamed of but hopefully it will give you another angle to think about. I agree with the other posters - if he does it again get the hell out. But Joyce, I've got a feeling this could be a one off. He wasn't justified to lash out, neither was I, but we are all human and pain can do some weird things to a person's mind. Take care Link to post Share on other sites
TMCM Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Joyce I am also of the opinion that there is no excuse for physical violence whether its directed at a woman or a man. Right now you are going to counseling to help you with the issues that led to your affair and how to recover from it. This latest incident should be a good reason for you to suggest to your H to go to counseling to help his unresolved issues affair/non-affair related. Keep also in mind that his first W also cheated on him and left him [and their children] and I wouldn't doubt that he still has unresolved issues relating to this as well. There is also the danger that he might lose it and severely beat or kill someone in the line of duty because of his unresolved anger. So you see, you are not the only one in danger if his anger goes unresolved. Aside from his fear that if words gets out that his career as a police officer is over, maybe a reason why he resists counseling is that he beleives that it is going to be joint counseling and he is hesitant to open up to the counselor in front of you. Please tell him that if he is more comfortable to have IC [individual counseling] then by all means to go for it. What is important is that he goes to counseling not only for your wellbeing but for his as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Originally posted by Ladyjane14 Yeah! Good luck with that. It's obvious that you're a real gem! Thanks, it's going good so far. I'd have to say she shares your appraisal of me as well. PS: *razzes you* Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I understand anger BUT I truly think that a couple should NEVER hit each other for ANY reason. If you have crossed that line and never cross it again, hopefully your spouse will forgive you and move on. There is nothing sexy or passionate about couple's hitting or slapping each other. I don't care what they do or say (unless it's self defense or for the protection of your children and it should happen ONLY once, you need to leave after you defend yourself or that child).... If we have enough self control to not hit people we don't love...like those that smart off to us (at work or the store), people that cut us off on the road and many many other things we put up with daily from perfect strangers....then we can still pull up some self control not to hit the person we love most NO matter how much they hurt us!! Grinning Maniac.......your thoughts on this are so off base.....did your Daddy hit your Mama alot?? Most guys I know are taught to NEVER hit a woman (nor should a woman hit a man)....a guy is way more of man if he walks away....I don't care what she's said or done...... I think we would all benefit from therapy if we are having some anger issues from an affair or buy something that represents our anger and hit it so we won't hit the cheating spouse....(I totally understand the urge!!) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Joyce Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 I really do appreciate all of your replies and reading all of your experiences. It helps to hear everyone's different point of views. It helped to be put in my place by some of you. I talked to my H. I didn't see the mean side of him at all. He agreed that we should get counseling. Maybe I deserved to be hit and maybe I didn't. I told him what's done is done but if it happens again I will be gone. We are going on vacation in a couple of days but he said after we get back we can look into it. He asked if I told anyone that he hit me. I told him I only talked about it on LS. He is ashamed of himself. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I'm glad that you two talked and he is willling to go to counsilling. But please Joyce, don't think you deserved to be hit. You didn't. Does a child deserve to be hit in a fit of someone else's rage of anger? No. Ofcourse not. So, why do you think you might be deserving of that? That to me, is what upsets me when I read what you say...I know none of us here know you or your husband, only from what you have shared...Only you know what is the right thing to do for yourself, so if you are working it out with him, that is a good thing if that is what you want. I am not judging you at all, just please don't internalize it and make it about you because it wasn't, isn't and never will be okay? All my best. WWIU Link to post Share on other sites
Author Joyce Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 Thank you WWIU, I don't know if staying with him is right or wrong. I do know that I can't leave and feel 100% comfortable about it. I have lost my sense of who I am. I feel as though my life has taken a turn that I never saw coming even though my choices lead me here. It does not feel real. I feel like my life is novel not reality. It's strange to see someone you love look at you and treat you with so much anger and hate. They turn into a stranger. I can't help but feel like I am to blame in some ways. I know I probably shouldn't but he never had this much anger before I made my bad choices. I have self esteem issues that I need to work on. I blame my self esteem is for a lot of the choices I've made. Just when I thought I couldn't get any lower. Here I am. The world is a crazy place. I do have enough respect for myself to not let it happen again. Thanks again for all of your replies. I deeply appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 You're welcome! I hope you do talk to a therapist to help you feel better about yourself. They really do help, so don't feel ashamed or embarressed about going. It still doesn't matter what you did, no matter how angry he reacted, it was HIS choice to strike out. I'm glad he's ashamed as he should be. Stay strong. Link to post Share on other sites
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