the "You Have To Win Her" Theory

[PogoStick]

Aka: There's always another d--k!

 

Basically the idea that any moderately attractive girl will have a boyfriend or a FWB. If you want her, you have to take her away from somebody else. If she is single, then she likely has several guys chasing her at the same time.

 

It actually goes for both sexes. Do women assume the same situation is going on with men? How does everyone feel about this? How does it affect your dating strategy?

 

For me, it's one of the reasons to be more sexually aggressive. Girls tend to develop feelings when they have sex. If I move too slow, another guy might get there first and she'll choose him instead. Does a woman feel having sex with a guy is a way to secure him from other women?

[JuneJulySeptember]

Aka: There's always another d--k!

 

Basically the idea that any moderately attractive girl will have a boyfriend or a FWB. If you want her, you have to take her away from somebody else. If she is single, then she likely has several guys chasing her at the same time.

 

It actually goes for both sexes. Do women assume the same situation is going on with men? How does everyone feel about this? How does it affect your dating strategy?

 

For me, it's one of the reasons to be more sexually aggressive. Girls tend to develop feelings when they have sex. If I move too slow, another guy might get there first and she'll choose him instead. Does a woman feel having sex with a guy is a way to secure him from other women?

 

Yes! It's almost always a competition for an attractive woman (or man).

 

I think that you bring your best (appearance, job, game) to the table at the beginning and then get your answer from her.

 

If the answer is no, you move on and NEVER look back. Chasing after women or thinking I had a chance or trying to win them is one of the reasons I'm so f@cked up today. Of course, I have friends who have chased women for very many years and even waited out other guys, but I won't.

 

Besides, I don't really want the very best. The only reason Woman 1 is chased so much more than Woman 2 is looks anyway. Give me Woman 2 in that situation.

[jma500]

Any woman you have to compete for and win is a drama queen and not worth the effort. Life isn't a game show.

[daisybuchanan55]

HAHA, no. I would NEVER try to secure a man by having sex with him.

 

The men I deal with are usually getting sex from multiple women so the way I set myself apart is by NOT having sex right away, not giving in to their good looks and charm and trying to get to know their personality. Usually this takes time.

 

The way I get attention from guys I like is by being different than the other girls I know are chasing them.

 

Which brings me to another point...I think there is a unique set of dating challenges for people who are considered "very attractive" or "highly desired." There is a constant power struggle when both people are used to being the pursued one and one person has to "give in."

 

Not saying "cry me a river" or anything...it's just something I've noticed and I do not know how to deal with it.

[daisybuchanan55]

Any woman you have to compete for and win is a drama queen and not worth the effort. Life isn't a game show.

 

My immediate knee-jerk reaction is to disagree with you but there is some truth in this statement. When I really like a guy I usually have a hard time suppressing my feelings. The problem is, I like it when guys "compete" for me. It makes me feel that they value my company.

[mesmerized]

Aka: There's always another d--k!

 

Basically the idea that any moderately attractive girl will have a boyfriend or a FWB. If you want her, you have to take her away from somebody else. If she is single, then she likely has several guys chasing her at the same time.

 

It actually goes for both sexes. Do women assume the same situation is going on with men? How does everyone feel about this? How does it affect your dating strategy?

 

For me, it's one of the reasons to be more sexually aggressive. Girls tend to develop feelings when they have sex. If I move too slow, another guy might get there first and she'll choose him instead. Does a woman feel having sex with a guy is a way to secure him from other women?

 

I think any woman with half a brain knows that having sex with a man doesn't secure him. If anything, it's the exact opposite. The chase is over for the man and he'll get interested in other women! Women try to emotionally trap a guy or bring all their best qualities to the table to secure him and very often they fail. I don't believe there really is much a woman can do to secure a guy if the guy isn't "that into" her to begin with.

[Inexperienced85]

My immediate knee-jerk reaction is to disagree with you but there is some truth in this statement. When I really like a guy I usually have a hard time suppressing my feelings. The problem is, I like it when guys "compete" for me. It makes me feel that they value my company.

 

Are you some sort of trophy that you have to be competed over?

 

I don't want to compete for any girl, I want them to like me for who I am and like them for who they are!

Edited June 8, 2013 by Inexperienced85

[daisybuchanan55]

Are you some sort of trophy that you have to be competed over?

 

I think men are biologically predisposed to "compete" for women, and that society has evolved to reflect this. I don't think you can fight nature.

 

That being said, no, I don't view myself as a "trophy," but I would like to think I view myself as someone worthy of a fantastic partner who values me. I also know that a lot of guys try to date me and I'm not going to settle for someone lame.

 

By the way, I realize how this sounds, and the only reason I'm answering honestly is because this is an anonymous forum and there's no point in being "polite" or giving the politically correct answer.

 

Also, the reality is that if you're pursuing an attractive, accomplished woman, there is going to be competition. Not saying she won't like you for you--that has nothing to do with it. Just saying that she will have other people pursuing her whether she is interested in them or not. That's just the way it is.

Edited June 8, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[Inexperienced85]

OK, but what does existence of competition have to do with quality of partners? You want a fantastic partner and not a lame partner, I get it. But what if all competition is lame? Are you gonna enjoy the fact that they are sweating off for you and let them shower you with attention even though they don't have a shot?

 

And what if there was in fact one fantastic guy there in that competition? Are you gonna rub it in his face like "Oh there are 10 other guys after me, I'm so awesome, you better sweat your ass if you want to get me"?

[oldshirt]

Aka: There's always another d--k!

 

Basically the idea that any moderately attractive girl will have a boyfriend or a FWB. If you want her, you have to take her away from somebody else. If she is single, then she likely has several guys chasing her at the same time.

 

It actually goes for both sexes. Do women assume the same situation is going on with men? How does everyone feel about this? How does it affect your dating strategy?

 

 

I am approaching 50 years old and if there is one thing I could go back and change from my youth it would be to realize that there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remotely attractive and socially skilled women DO always either have some kind of BF or FWB/FBs at any given time. They are always dating someone to one degree or another, they are never just completely single and free and clear. If you do take a liking to some gal that is remotely attractive you ARE going to have to compete for her. That may not be a convenient truth but it is how the world works.

 

If you take a liking to some nice, attractive gal and you decide to wait until she is free and clear of all other suitors, you are going to spend your life waiting.

 

Here is another truth I wish I understood back in my youth. The desirable women overlap their dating/relationships. Meaning the next suitor is lined up ready to go before current one is let go. There is no real refractory period where they are free and clear. If you aren't on the waiting, you aren't getting in.

 

Now before that starts sounding too doom and gloom, here is the ray of hope....the women themselves don't realize this and don't actually believe that is what they are doing. They may be dating someone and they may be having their booty calls in the middle of the night but many of them still consider themselves available and are open to other offers. They'll give you a little resistance and tell you they are seeing someone or that things are "a little complicated right now" but that is mostly to see if you have the balls to step up to the plate and take them out anyway.

 

So take this from someone who played it safe and by the rules in his youth and then learned later in life how the world really worked. If I could go back in time I would be a lot less worried following any kind of teenage dating "rules" and I would be a lot less worried about making someone feel a little awkward and I would be a hell of a lot less worried about irritating some other guy who happened to ask out the pretty girl before I did.

 

If I could go back in time I would approach and engage the girls and women that I was interested in and liked and be more willing to deal with complicated situations and some pissed off guy giving me cold stares and giving me the finger whenever he drove by.

 

Mother Nature designed a world where the boldest, strongest males that are willing to butt heads with other males get the girls and the weak and timid males don't breed. The silver lining there is that even though in the mountains the cow elk will only breed with the bull elk that that wins the fight, in humans sometimes the girls will end up with the loser of the fight. Sometimes all it takes is just being willing to show up and butt heads in the first place.

 

Morals of the story -

 

- don't be afraid to approach girls you like that happen to be seeing someone at the time. They may not be as committed as you think they are.

 

- Don't walk away when they say they seeing someone or that "its complicated." That just means they want you to try harder and show that you are serious. If they actually do not want to go out with you they will say no and walk away.

 

-Don't be afraid to butt heads with other guys. You may take an ass-pounding or two now and then but you'll forget about the black eye when you are out with the girl.

 

and most importantly - NEVER SIT BY AND WAIT. If you like someone go for it. Don't wait for the right moment, it will never come.

[Kamille]

Having sex to secure a man?

 

Thanks Pogo! Threads like these remind me why it's important to wait that a guy says he wants to be exclusive before having sex.

 

You realize even good looking people want to fall in love and are capable of monogamy, right?

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

For me, it's one of the reasons to be more sexually aggressive. Girls tend to develop feelings when they have sex. If I move too slow, another guy might get there first and she'll choose him instead. Does a woman feel having sex with a guy is a way to secure him from other women?

 

This is a little bit of separate issue but it does tie in with the other topic.

 

What is the important take-away message is that you won't get anywhere by being girl's gay little buddy and being their asexual "friend."

 

Friends are fine and good to have but if you are wanting a "girl friend" and a relationship that includes a romantic/sexual/physical component, then yes you must be at least somewhat sexually assertive and make your romantic/sexual intentions known and NOT be a passive asexual friend and confidant.

 

Women will argue this point because they want their companions and support systems and to have guys that they can go to to cry on their shoulders and talk about their problems and have the guys brush their hair out of their eyes and tell them that they are fantastic and that it's all unfair,

 

But if you want to have a girlfriend and have a romantic/sexual component to the relationship then you are going to have stimulate their sexual desire and attract them sexually to you.

 

Otherwise you are going to be "just friends" and will be stuck in the friendzone.

[jma500]

My immediate knee-jerk reaction is to disagree with you but there is some truth in this statement. When I really like a guy I usually have a hard time suppressing my feelings. The problem is, I like it when guys "compete" for me. It makes me feel that they value my company.

 

Sounds like you have a self esteem issue.

[jma500]

I think men are biologically predisposed to "compete" for women, and that society has evolved to reflect this. I don't think you can fight nature.

 

That being said, no, I don't view myself as a "trophy," but I would like to think I view myself as someone worthy of a fantastic partner who values me. I also know that a lot of guys try to date me and I'm not going to settle for someone lame.

 

By the way, I realize how this sounds, and the only reason I'm answering honestly is because this is an anonymous forum and there's no point in being "polite" or giving the politically correct answer.

 

Your first sentence is media driven nonsense. I wouldn't waste my time competing for any woman. No woman is worth that amount of aggravation. A woman like you describe would never stay with a guy because with her egomania would always having jumping to the next even better guy. Relationship material she is not.

[ChessPieceFace]

Reversed it would probably be "there's always another sponge to leech off your wallet."

[JuneJulySeptember]

I am approaching 50 years old and if there is one thing I could go back and change from my youth it would be to realize that there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remotely attractive and socially skilled women DO always either have some kind of BF or FWB/FBs at any given time. They are always dating someone to one degree or another, they are never just completely single and free and clear. If you do take a liking to some gal that is remotely attractive you ARE going to have to compete for her. That may not be a convenient truth but it is how the world works.

 

If you take a liking to some nice, attractive gal and you decide to wait until she is free and clear of all other suitors, you are going to spend your life waiting.

 

Here is another truth I wish I understood back in my youth. The desirable women overlap their dating/relationships. Meaning the next suitor is lined up ready to go before current one is let go. There is no real refractory period where they are free and clear. If you aren't on the waiting, you aren't getting in.

 

Now before that starts sounding too doom and gloom, here is the ray of hope....the women themselves don't realize this and don't actually believe that is what they are doing. They may be dating someone and they may be having their booty calls in the middle of the night but many of them still consider themselves available and are open to other offers. They'll give you a little resistance and tell you they are seeing someone or that things are "a little complicated right now" but that is mostly to see if you have the balls to step up to the plate and take them out anyway.

 

So take this from someone who played it safe and by the rules in his youth and then learned later in life how the world really worked. If I could go back in time I would be a lot less worried following any kind of teenage dating "rules" and I would be a lot less worried about making someone feel a little awkward and I would be a hell of a lot less worried about irritating some other guy who happened to ask out the pretty girl before I did.

 

If I could go back in time I would approach and engage the girls and women that I was interested in and liked and be more willing to deal with complicated situations and some pissed off guy giving me cold stares and giving me the finger whenever he drove by.

 

Mother Nature designed a world where the boldest, strongest males that are willing to butt heads with other males get the girls and the weak and timid males don't breed. The silver lining there is that even though in the mountains the cow elk will only breed with the bull elk that that wins the fight, in humans sometimes the girls will end up with the loser of the fight. Sometimes all it takes is just being willing to show up and butt heads in the first place.

 

Morals of the story -

 

- don't be afraid to approach girls you like that happen to be seeing someone at the time. They may not be as committed as you think they are.

 

- Don't walk away when they say they seeing someone or that "its complicated." That just means they want you to try harder and show that you are serious. If they actually do not want to go out with you they will say no and walk away.

 

-Don't be afraid to butt heads with other guys. You may take an ass-pounding or two now and then but you'll forget about the black eye when you are out with the girl.

 

and most importantly - NEVER SIT BY AND WAIT. If you like someone go for it. Don't wait for the right moment, it will never come.

 

Very good points actually.

 

But for me it's not worth it. The only thing that elevates them to that level is having a pretty (or average) face. That's it.

 

I'll take a less conventionally attractive woman (by society's standards) and day of the week and spare myself the mental anguish. What you get on the inside is exactly the same.

[Inexperienced85]

-Don't be afraid to butt heads with other guys. You may take an ass-pounding or two now and then but you'll forget about the black eye when you are out with the girl.

 

What? This is ridiculous! What if a guy pulled a knife or called backup? Should I risk my own life for some girl I barely know?

[daisybuchanan55]

I completely agree with oldshirt. Everything he said is the truth.

 

The MOST true part about his post...that attractive girls are rarely completely "free and clear." AND that they don't view themselves that way! AND that they are open to other options. ALL TRUE!

 

I view myself as completely single, but it's true that at any given time I am ALWAYS in communication with at least a few men. I'm not dating them for whatever reason (mainly geographical) but if you're a guy waiting for me to be completely "free" and not talking to any men, it ain't gonna happen.

 

That being said, I rarely tell a guy "it's complicated"." I will usually say I'm single.

 

If a guy wants to take me out I rarely object. All that's necessary is for them to step up to the plate...and for me to be at least a little bit attracted.

 

Actually, I will sometimes tell one guy about a date I went on with another guy not realizing that doing this may may the first guy afraid to ask me out! Several people have told me this. Guys, what would you say?

[oldshirt]

Sounds like you have a self esteem issue.

 

That's like telling a guy he has self esteem issues because he is attracted to women with pretty faces, shiny hair, hourglass figures, full firm breasts, long lean legs and shapely firm butts.

 

Attraction isn't a choice and it's not a result of a dysfunction or pathological state. It's programmed and hardwired into our DNA.

 

In every species on the planet, males and females alike have to compete for the most desirable members of the opposite sex.

 

Women do feel desire for men willing to compete for and defend them. It's not a self esteem issue, it is an instinctual issue.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I think men are biologically predisposed to "compete" for women, and that society has evolved to reflect this. I don't think you can fight nature.

 

That being said, no, I don't view myself as a "trophy," but I would like to think I view myself as someone worthy of a fantastic partner who values me. I also know that a lot of guys try to date me and I'm not going to settle for someone lame.

 

By the way, I realize how this sounds, and the only reason I'm answering honestly is because this is an anonymous forum and there's no point in being "polite" or giving the politically correct answer.

 

Eeek.... There might be some truths about some human behaviors because of biology but people are infact different and do have different "natures" in varying degrees. Some people are more biologicaly predisposed toward monogmogy and others aren't. Some men very well may be more biologically predisposed to compete for women and others would like it to be more easy going. This doesn't mean they are "unnatural".

 

With that said, I don't think having to "compete" for a woman means life is a game show of that she can't really like you. Part of the fun between men and women is infact "the game". As long as the game is positive for both, it isn't a bad thing. So I don't understand men who are bitter about having to win a woman over but I can understand men who simply want something more beignin. People have different needs and tolerance. They also have different levels of desire for passion. Some people want a lot of passion (I am not just talking about sexual passion) and others need something more tepid.

[oldshirt]

What? This is ridiculous! What if a guy pulled a knife or called backup? Should I risk my own life for some girl I barely know?

 

What if you were afraid every guy is a knife-wielding psychopath with ten buddies that just got out of prison and are working out ten hours a day at the MMA gym for rehab?? What if you decided to let fear and wild imagination dictate your actions so that you spend all your time playing Xbox and spanking to porn in your mom's basement instead of getting out and interacting with real live, flesh and blood people and girls?

 

Yes, there are risks out there and people have to be responsible and manage those risks.

 

In my youth I was afraid of that knife-wielding, jealous psycho boyfriend and so I didn't take the risk. Now that I am a full grown adult I realize 99% of that fear was simply my own over-active imagination and I learned that the vast majority of the time when I did approach a woman that was seeing someone, more often than not his simply faded away like a fart in the wind and the few times that I did get approached by the jealous BF he was more afraid that I was the knife-wielding psycho and I chased him off and I got the girl (been married almost 18 years now)

 

you have to weigh the risks and decide which is worse, ruffling some other dude's feathers or sitting in the basement spanking to porn. I got to the point I was willing to start butting heads and that is when I started getting laid like tile. I don't regret a single head-butt, I regret the time I spent alone on Sat nights because I was too timid to rock the boat by asking out girls that happened to be seeing other people.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Part of the fun between men and women is infact "the game". As long as the game is positive for both, it isn't a bad thing. So I don't understand men who are bitter about having to win a woman over but I can understand men who simply want something more beignin.

 

I'm not sure how constant rejection and rejection by those you have become infatuated with qualifies as high fun.

 

Maybe about as fun as being tied up naked with honey and bread crumbs spread on my privates and having a swarm of fire ants unleashed.

[oldshirt]

Very good points actually.

 

But for me it's not worth it. The only thing that elevates them to that level is having a pretty (or average) face. That's it.

 

I'll take a less conventionally attractive woman (by society's standards) and day of the week and spare myself the mental anguish. What you get on the inside is exactly the same.

 

You can opt out of competing with other men, but then you are going to be left with what no one else wants and since people are generally attracted to same traits for the most part, you are likely going to be disappointed and dissatisfied at some point.

[JuneJulySeptember]

You can opt out of competing with other men, but then you are going to be left with what no one else wants and since people are generally attracted to same traits for the most part, you are likely going to be disappointed and dissatisfied at some point.

 

True. But when you say desirable/undesirable you are really talking about looks. That's really what people value.

 

For me, competition and the chasing game results in emotional investment, rejection, and bitterness. So, it's really not worth it.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I'm not sure how constant rejection and rejection by those you have become infatuated with qualifies as high fun.

 

Maybe about as fun as being tied up naked with honey and bread crumbs spread on my privates and having a swarm of fire ants unleashed.

 

Well, you will notice that I did say "positive" for both. rejection is not fun but that's not really the game I am talking about. I am talking about the game betweene a man and woman who are building a relationship or have been in a relationship for a long time.

 

Even Google and Starbucks sometimes fail June. What do you do when a business model fails? You try a new business model. It's going to require some introspection into yourself as well as maybe a little more knowledge of how women work to get them respond to you. You are going to have to change the busines model if you aren't getting positive results. Because I am seriously going to tell you that 98% of the time, with women, the reason you may be failing isn't because of looks.