Marriage in jeopardy due to male "friend" with an agenda

[Devildog]

My wife and I have decided to seperate for awhile after 5 years of marriage. The reasons are numerous, but here are some of the main ones.

 

In the begining of February of this year we lost our newborn daughter after 11 days. This has had a devestating effect on our marriage. It was a combination of things. We have a 2 1/2 year old daughter together as well. My wife lost her brother a little under 5 years ago. He was 22 at the time. Her grandfather had passed away from a heart attack less than a month before that. So she has had 3 traumatic losses in a relatively short time frame. Sadly, I have also experienced my share of losses. My older brother commited suicide 12 years ago when I was 18, my brother-in-law, her brother, who I considered a good friend, my grandfather a year and a half ago and our daughter. My family growing up was not an emotionally open family I guess you could say. I had to learn to deal with life on my own and because of that I don't share my feelings easily. I tend to fold up inside of myself. This is what I did after our daughter died. Unfortunately, I wasn't there for my wife the way I should have been to help her deal with our lose. I just recently pulled myself out enough to realize the serious problems that had developed between my wife and me, and it might be too late.

 

We started getting at each other throats more and more, and fighting more often until it got to the point where the bad times out-weighed the good times. I have some jealousy issues, which I am trying to work on, and am talking to a counselor about getting in control of. When my wife and I first started dating a male friend of hers got out of a relationship and started calling her and stopping by her parents house. We had been together about 2 months at this time. I wasn't happy about it, but he swore that he "respected our relationship and would never do anything to interfere with that". Against my judgement I didn't try to prevent them from talking. 2 weeks later he made a pass at my future wife. Fast forward 8 years, Same male friend gets married early this year and is getting divorced 3 months later. Guess who he comes to for emotional support and to talk to? That's right, my wife. He says he "respects our marriage and would never do anything to interfere with that". Where had I heard that before? By nature I don't automatically trust people. I made an exception 8 years ago and got burned on it, and was never apologized to for it. I was not comfortable with the situation at all. I trusted my wife, that was not the issue. I work nights, and this guy was coming over to my house after I left for work to visit my wife. Again, I trust my wife not to do anything, I don't trust this guy though, especially when my wife is alone and I am not readily available if she needs me. Not to mention we live in a small town where people talk, and it makes me look stupid and doesn't do much for her reputation either.

 

I have a hard time controlling my emotions. They are very intense. After I calm down and think about things I normally see how wrong I was. But at that point the damage has already been done. And the damage has been piling up for awhile without getting better.

 

My wife and I finally started to talk about these issues. I have apologized profusely for being a jerk and I was the one who brought up the idea of getting counseling for my emotional issues. But at this point she says she needs time away from me to heal and find out who she is after the loss of our daughter. We both still love each other and I want to do everything I can to show her I am serious about making things right and getting my jealousy issues under control. I need her in my life and am terrified that I might lose her. I don't want to just be friends who happen to have had children together. I want to be a husband and wife and a family again.

 

If anyone has any suggestions as to what I can do to show her how much she means to me, or suggestions on other things I can do to improve on my issues I would appreciate it.

[bluelips]

I live in a small town also. I know how that can be. It bothers me but I try to ignore people who "talk".

 

I don't know if this will help you out, but 2 1/2 years ago I left my husband of 6 years because he cheated on me. I slept in the livingroom for about a year before I got an apartment and moved out. He didn't want me to leave. On my part, the love was lost.

 

We have 2 children together with 50/50 joint custody.

 

I walked away from the house and the other things that we had and I went bankrupt. I only kept my car. After about 2 years, he ended up losing everything even his job, going bankrupt also and had to move in with his parents.. The material things aren't the problem though.

 

The past year I have been realizing that I made a mistake because my children are so confused about all this. They are having such a hard time and there's not much I can do to fix anything because there's no way I'll go back to him. People tell me that I should just think of my happiness, because if I'm happy then my kids will be happy no matter what. That's not entirely true. They don't enjoy going back and forth between parents and my son would rather be with his dad and that makes me feel horrible. My daughter stays with me every other night. My son stays with me when he feels like it. I'm letting him make his own choice because I feel so guilty for breaking up the family. To top it all off, I now have a boyfriend with another whole set of problems. That's another story...

 

In your case it looks like you truly love your wife. Keep talking with her as much as possible. I think you should do whatever it takes to keep your family together. Just keep letting her know how much you care. Faithful husbands are so hard to come by. You need to make her realize how lucky she is to have you and how much you love her and your family. Make it work in any way you can.

[Devildog]

I have always been faithful, I could never under any circumstance do anything to break that trust she has in me.

 

Part of the problem is that I haven't been as great of a husband as I should be. physically, I treat her like a Queen. I do the laundry 95% of the time, I do the dishes 50% of the time, I help with the house work. She knows if she wants a drink or a snack al she has to do is mention she is thirsty or hungry and I get it for her. No, I'm not whipped. I like to do things for her to make it easier for her. She has a great deal of stress in her life and I want to ease that stress if I can.

 

While I take care of her every whim physically, I have been lacking in the emotional needs department. When our daughter died, I folded in on myself and wasn't there like I should have been to hold her and help her deal with her emotional crisis.

 

How do I keep showing I love her and want to be together when I am not there and need to give her space to find herself? I don't want to rush her or push her away. But I need to make sure she knows that I am still waiting for her when this is done.

 

P.S. I always hate that "don't stay together for the children" thing. Parents should put their childrens needs ahead of their own. If a relationship can be saved, every effort should be made to save it. But, if abuse of any kind is involved it is better for the children if the marriage is ended. Kids should not think that kind of thing is "normal" or "acceptable".

[Ladyjane14]

It sounds like you have a really good handle on what the problems are, so you're ahead of the game. Identifying the problem is sometimes the most difficult part of solving it.

 

I was the one who brought up the idea of getting counseling for my emotional issues.

 

Have you actually scheduled this yet? If she's not ready to go, you should definately go on your own. This will go a long way toward proving to her that you are serious about handling the jealousy issue.

 

Jealousy is a form of control. Controlling behavior is born of insecurity. It becomes a viscious cycle because the one you are attempting to control is going to try to move further away from you, thus making you feel even more insecure.

 

Once you have arranged the counseling. Ask her if she'll come back home and support you emotionally through the process. Ask her nicely, without trying to exert control over her.

 

Admit to her that you acknowledge that you need to open up more. Tell her that regardless of how things work out between you in the relationship, it is still important to accomplish that emotional work so that you can be a good father to your children.

 

Consider keeping an 'open journal' so that you can record your feelings in a safe way, and she can read and write in it as well. It's an open dialogue that allows you to really step away from your emotions, and each person can correct the others misconceptions.

[Devildog]

Thanks Ladyjane, I am really trying to fix my problems. I have an appointment this Wednesday for counseling. My wife does not want to come along because she doesn't want a third party getting into our problems. I wish she would reconsider because I think we would both see problems that each of us brings to the relationship. I just hope she will be patient with me. I have had 30 years of being the way I am now and I know the results won't be instantaneous. That is part of the reason I am seeking counseling. I have tried to change on my own, but it isn't easy to do.

 

I did find that journal idea interesting. Do you have any more info on that?

[Ladyjane14]

When my husband and I were having problems, we found it helpful to keep a journal in a central location that we could both write in.

 

One of my issues was that I was having alot of trouble getting my feelings out. If I talked about them, I felt like I was harping at him. It was kind of like I kept trying to sort out the same thoughts over and over. And by putting them down on paper I was able to throw them away.

 

By sharing them with him, he was able to comment and correct any misconceptions that I had.

 

It's very much like an ongoing letter. And because it's written, you end up really concentrating on what it is that you want to say.

 

I think it's great that you're going for the counseling. She may change her mind at some point down the road. Let her know that it's not all about the marital problems, so she won't feel like you're telling tales out of school.

 

She'll need to know that you're serious about repairing the relationship. Don't be discouraged if she doesn't get right on board.

 

[Devildog]

My wife and I are not currently seperated. My brother gets married in the very near future, and my wife and I are both in the wedding. We don't want to break any news regarding this until after the wedding, so we don't ruin their day. So for the time being we still live together.

 

We have been talking more and we are using this time we are still together to try to get a jump on the game I guess. The fact that I have realized my problems and am taking steps to try to correct them has helped. My wife told me over the weekend that she will not be abe to see me packing, that I will have to do that while she is at work or something. She also told me she doesn't feel in her heart that the seperation will be for very long. It is more of an opportunity to establish who we are as individuals again. After we got married we kind of lost that on both ends. It was something I had been trying to suggest for some time too. We have different interests and we should both feel that we can pursue our own interests and hobbies. So that is what most of the seperation is about at this point.

 

Plus, we want to get back to being friends again. We haven't been friendly for awhile, and we want to rebuild our relationship and marriage on a friendship again.

 

The journal idea might work in my situation. I have always had a problem getting my feelings out in words, and usually I speak things that I don't really want to say and that cannot be taken back. The journal thing might help me get the feelings out and do it in a way that I won't say something I will regret later on after I have cooled down.

 

I do have another question though. I have been a large part of the problem in this, but my wife isn't perfect. There have been some issues and things she does that have added fuel to the fire so to speak. These aren't make or break issues, just problems that helped fuel my anger during the hard times. Should I bring these up and try to resolve them along with everything else, or should I wait until after we have gotten back on stronger ground to discuss them?

[Ladyjane14]

If they're not "make or break" issues, then I think I'd wait for a little while. Tackle the bigger ones first. I think what you're trying to tell her is that YOU need to make some changes. Let her see that you're serious about that.

 

If you try to fix EVERYTHING at one time, you might find that you're both overwhelmed by it all.

[confusedkat]

someone else said I should talk to you for inspiration on how to regain feelings for my husband. I posted on the "is this marrriage over?".

 

Sorry to jump in this forum, but if you have time, I would really like to hear how you handled your issues. I posted a couple times on the subject of seperation. I am really having a hard time making a decision, and indecision is the worst part of it all.

 

Thanks

[Ladyjane14]

I'll send you a PM, but if you want to elicit some more viewpoints, consider opening up a new thread. There's ALOT of people around here who are going through the same kind of troubles. And I haven't found too many to be harsh in their opinions, so don't feel shy.

[Ladyjane14]

(Just tried it. You'll need to go to 'Edit Profile' and enable PM.)

 

In the meantime, I read through all your posts, and I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. I was in an emotionally dead marriage too a few months ago, so I know how bad it feels when you don't really have any sort of deadline for solving the problems, but you can't see any light at the end of the tunnel either. It's living in limbo with the realization that time is slipping inexorably away, minute by minute, and nothing is getting better.

 

Anyway, have you cleared all the possible physiological reasons that you could be feeling this way? Depression? Medical illness? Sleep disorder? That sort of thing.

 

In my relationship, it was my husband who was experiencing some clinical depression. Alot of it I think was brought on by other health problems, but I didn't know it was depression. I thought he was just an a*hole bent on making MY life a misery! lol

 

Seriously though, clinical depression is more than just feeling sad and empty all the time, as you probably know. It's a chemical imbalance that colors your outlook on EVERYTHING. And I notice that you're feeling really sad and empty by reading your posts.

 

I've posted alot on this subject, because once you have this really great thing happen in your life, you just want to share it with EVERYONE! And you can read some of them by clicking on 'search' at the bottom of this post. So I won't bore everyone here on this thread.

 

But the one thing you have to ask yourself, when you've cleared all the phyisical reasons out of the way, is 'do you still LOVE this man?'. I mean the man he is today. If you didn't have all the bad memories, would you still want to be with him? If you could wave a magic wand and make all the bad stuff go away, would he still be someone you'd like to spend time with?

 

[SoleMate]

Losing a child is one of the HARDEST things a couple can go through. It breaks up lots of marriages. You really must have counseling to deal with this kind of crisis - I hope you can get your wife to see that.

 

Please check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com. It's the best advice on how to understand and meet your spouse's emotional needs and thus keep them in love with you. It works two ways, BTW. This is the best thing you can do right now - understand what your wife is craving from you, and give it to her.

[Devildog]

Well, my wife feels like everyone is saying she is crazy when anyone suggests talking to someone. I've tried, her co-workers have tried. Her parents have tried. We can't force her to talk to someone. I hope maybe if I talk to our priest he can help me find ways to get her to talk to someone, or maybe if she sees that it helps me deal with my issues it will inspire her as well.

 

She has been talking about our future together again, so that is a positive thing. Major things too, like the next vehicle WE buy will be a truck for me since I gave up my SUV to get the car she has. I see talk like that as a positive step in the right direction. Hopefully, this story will have a happy ending for us. I just need to keep working on the problems though. I don't want to think this is a done deal and stop working on fixing the problems.

 

Who changed the thread title on me?

[midori]

Originally posted by Devildog

Who changed the thread title on me?

 

Hi Devildog,

 

Moderators change thread titles from generic requests for help to something that better reflects the actual content of the main/originating post. This helps all readers, and it avoids having ten or fifteen "Help me!" or "Please tell me what you think" threads active at the same time.

 

Going forward, please direct any questions you have regarding moderating actions to the moderation team by using the "Contact Us" link you'll find by scrolling to the bottom of the page.

 

Best wishes,

midori

[Devildog]

Thanks Midori. I don't have a problem with it, it just kind of threw me when I didn't find my original title. Maybe an email or something to the thread starter when titles get changed?

[midori]

Originally posted by Devildog

Thanks Midori. I don't have a problem with it, it just kind of threw me when I didn't find my original title. Maybe an email or something to the thread starter when titles get changed?

 

It's a nice idea, but unfortunately the moderators don't always have time to communicate with members each time they edit a post or thread. Our staff is 100% volunteer, and while it might only take two minutes to send an email, when a moderator is editing a couple dozen posts and threads at any given time, I'm sure you can appreciate how that could very quickly become an extra half hour or even hour of their time that they simply don't have to give to the site.

 

If you have any questions about moderator actions, please do communicate with us using the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page. As this is a thread you started I expect no one will complain about this tangent interrupting the flow of the discussion, but that's usually not the case.

 

Best wishes,

midori

[sami]

There is no way for you to work things out with your wife as long as her male friend is in her life. The night visits while you were at work had built a huge emotional wall between you and her. It is not what you should to her, it is rather what she should decide about him for both of you if she is willing to bring the family together. The longer she has him available for her the deeper he penetrates her emotional system. This man is not a friend. He is an occupier.

[amerikajin]

Devildog,

 

First off, hang in there man. I've never actually been married myself, but I had a live-in relationship with someone I was going to marry but never did. I kinda relate, I guess.

 

Anyway, one observation I want to make here is that you seem to be doing an awful lot of work and chores around the house, which is good - men have to do their fare share too. But I hope you're not spoiling her or anything; there's no use in doing that. She may end up losing respect for you if you start being Mr. Nice guy 100 percent of the time.

 

The second thing is, your wife seems to be reasonable. I think maybe she's just going through a very difficult period and doesn't know how to get out of it (just as you are).

 

Wish I had some special advice, but I don't. Take it one day at a time and keep the lines of communication open. And yes, the loser with the agenda needs to be confronted by both you and your wife. She needs to reinforce that he's not helping.

[Devildog]

I think she has come to the conclusion on her own that he isn't helping the situation. She hasn't spoken to him in any way shape or form for a week now. That is helping things alot. I think someone might have clued him in. We live in a small town and my wife's family is a big family. They have made their disapproval of the situation known. I think that will go a long way to helping get things back on track.

 

I hear what you all are saying about being too nice and helpful. Part of that lies with my user name. I am a Marine, no longer active duty, but it never leaves you. There are alot of things I do because there is a certain way I like things done. Plus Marines have a reputation for treating their SO like queens. She knows that just under the surface of the nice guy is still a warrior with alot of will.

[Devildog]

I talked to my Mother-In-Law today. I had been dreading that because I figured they would be pretty mad at me for their daughter being as upset as she has been. They're not. They actually agreed with my side of alot of the issues. That the "friend" was a no good homewrecker who doesn't care about anyone but himself. I found out the real scoop on why she hasn't been talking to him lately. He basically gave her an ultimatum. He didn't come out and say "It's me or your husband" but he asked my wife if he should start dating some girl he met. Basically asking if she was going to stay with me or not. She told him "what are you asking for my permission? I don't care if you date anyone, you are not my SO". So she finally realized that he was looking for more than just a friend. She wouldn't give me the satisfaction of telling me I am right of course.

 

The one thing her parents do blame me for though is they also think I have been too nice to her and have let her walk over me and that she doesn't appreciate me as much as she should. I guess there is something to that. They think the seperation will help our marriage in that she will see that I do alot of things around the house that she has taken for granted. They think it will make her appreciate me more.

[Devildog]

Not sure if anyone is still paying any attention to this thread. Haven't seen any replies lately. But I have found writing helps me. I can get the things I need and want to say off my chest. It calms me down.

 

Tonight as I left for work began our seperation. I won't be there when she gets home from work tomorrow. I want to be optomistic that things will work out for us and that after a few weeks or months maybe we can get back together and get our marriage back on track. But I don't know if that will happen or not. I really don't know if things can get better if she doesn't talk to a therapist or counselor of some kind. She told me she resents the fact that I was out of work for an extended period of time last year and during that time I got to spend all day long with our daughter. And during that time our daughter had a tighter bond with me than with her. That was last year. The unemployment time didn't hurt us financially. I have been back at work at a decent job for the last 10 months. And our daughter is back into being all about Mommy. But she still hasn't lost any of the resentment of me. I feel like she wants to make our daughter hate and resent me for not being there during this seperation. I know that is a horrible thing to think, but that is how I am feeling with this. I brought up the idea of counselling again because she seems to be getting short tempered with our daughter. That her inability to let go of any of the resentment of me after all this time. That she doesn't sleep more than 3 hours a night usually.

 

I also asked her to stop contact with the "friend" that I mentioned earlier when I started this post along with a co-worker that she had started developing feelings for while we were in the worst of our times. She told me that they had discussed what she was feeling and determined that it was just anger at me that was making her feel that way, but I felt more comfortable if there was no one else involved that might have alterior motives or any emotional attachments that might interfere with us getting straightened out. Was that wrong of me? We did get into a blow up about the "friend" issue again with it. She just doesn't see where the "friend" was doing anything wrong. She sees it as me trying to tell her who she can and can not talk to. She doesn't see that his coming over after I left for work was disrespectful of me and our marriage. She doesn't see that his excuse of wanting to talk in person because you can't talk over the phone was a crock. They invented the phone to talk on! It is easier to talk to someone over the phone! That is why it is considered to be the chicken $#it way of breaking up with a person. It bothers me that she seems to trust his intentions completely and without question but doesn't think as highly of me.

 

I would like to ask for some replies to this question though. If you had a person who had done what this "friend" did, wouldn't you want to knock their heads off? I think that over 90% of guys faced with this situation would want to pound the crap out of the "friend" and that 60% would actually do it. Am I wrong about that?

[Ladyjane14]

I can't blame you a bit for feeling angry and frustrated. I'd probably want to "knock somebody's head off" too if I felt like they were interfering in my marriage.

 

Just by reading through your posts though, it looks like she's already sensitive to control issues. And rabid jealousy probably isn't the image you're hoping to project just now.

 

I just don't see how separating is going to help the situation though. I often think that the partner asking for a 'trial' separation is just breaking-it-gently to the other partner. I can't see the logic in separating as a means of getting closer together. The reasoning behind it just sounds a little bogus.

 

Is it possible that you can get her to change her mind about this? You don't want to appear too controlling of course, but is she open at all to working it out while remaining together in the same home?

[sami]

As long as you are unable to positively communicate with her about the " friend" issue there is no way you may get back again. Seperation will only drive her closer to him. If that is what they are planning for then you have no option but to accept the sad reality that your marriage is over. STP living in denial my friend. You need to peacefully say "good bye" and start looking somewhere else. This is not a battlefield for you to practice your military training. Change of hearts happen everytime. You are not an exception. Think of your own future and your daughter's. If you failed to win her over with grace then accept the loss with dignity.Good luck.

[amerikajin]

You're wife's not stupid, she's just being a b!tch. She knows by now that it's a sore spot with you, and any woman who cared more about your feelings would respect your wishes and tell the guy to get lost. But I think your wife is a very insecure woman and needs that guy around to make her feel like she's got some kind of leverage against you. A professional psychologist or mental health expert would understand better than I the dynamics at play here, but it doesn't take a degree to figure out she's into manipulation.

 

I'd just let her know that you're on to it, don't even negotiate over something like this. Let her know you're just not going to put up with her running to this "friend" and that this isn't even something you want to discuss. Tell her you want it to stop, no questions asked.

[Devildog]

Sami, I am not living in denial, I am past that stage and am into the anger stage. My wife is the one who has been living in denial for the past 2 years. She doesn't question this idiots intentions and what he is doing because if she did that, she would realize that it is inappropriate and that she carries a share of the fault for what is going on. Heck, she has convinced herself that "we" came to this mutual agreement on seperating, to save herself the feeling of guilt that she is the one who has made this decision.

 

Ladyjane, I agree with you 100% about the seperation not being the answer to getting back together. I have spent the last several weeks before this trying to get her to consider working on our problems instead of splitting up. She wouldn't listen to it.