Author Devildog Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Well, I have the potential to be a great guy maybe, but I haven't been showing that before this. Hence my presence here Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Well, i just spent the last hour and half on the phone with my wife. We had a really good talk, great talk actually. The first half hour I just chatted about general BS, then she brought up the situation with us. She didn't get my email this morning. But I told her about most of what I said in it. It had a huge effect on her!!! When we first started talking about it she was asking me if things don't work out and she decides she can't get past some of the problems we have been having if we could still part ways as friends. I told her we could but I also started talking about the things I had written in that email I posted earlier. I don't think she thought i was actually going to make changes like I have been. She sounded a lot more confident in the possibility of getting our relationship back on track. Still needs time to get other issues straightened out before we can get to that point though. When we were hanging up, she told me she loved me, on her own, without me saying it first. That hasn't happened in weeks, since the whole seperation idea was originally brought up. I haven't told her that since Monday night when I left. I didn't want to pressure her. I was crying when I got off the phone. Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Glad to see that the 2 of you are taking some time to work on yourselves as individuals. I think that can only help your relationship. Looks like you are making some progress in reconnecting. I wish you the best. Ladyjane, Thanks for the compliment. I don't think I've ever been called a marvel before. Link to post Share on other sites
sami Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Just stay on this right track my friend. It will eventually get you to your last station safe and sound. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Well, it has been a few days since my last update. Not a whole lot has changed really. I have continued to do alot of soul searching and research and trying to find answers to the things I have done wrong. I realize my hipocrisy meter has been getting kind of high. I get upset when co-workers make sexually harrasing comments to her because I think she deserves a lot of respect. She is a beautiful, caring, thoughtful woman and she deserves respect. But I haven't been showing her as much respect. I also realize that I have complained in the past that she has overlooked the good things I do and only focuses on the things I don't do. But then I have been focusing on the needs she hasn't been fulfilling for me and ignoring the things she has done to fulfil other needs. I talked with my mother in law this morning. She thinks things will work out with my wife and I and she is glad to see I have been handling this maturely and really focusing on the things I have done wrong. She does realize that it isn't all me though. But if one of us takes up the challenge and makes an effort to change things, the other might too. And even if she doesn't, it will help ease the tension we have been dealing with and things will still most likely get better. My wife and I are taking a break from talking about us right now. She hasn't really had the opportunity to get a step back from things yet. She called about something trivial this evening and started to discuss us, and I told her that we should save this for next week when we agreed to see if we are ready to talk. She still apologizes for what she is putting me through and what she is putting our marriage through. I told her that this has been the right decision. We stopped fighting and now can focus on what the problems have been and what we can do and are willing to do to resolve them. I told her again that I am not angry or upset with her for doing this, that this isn't enough to make me hate her or not want to be with her. Things will just take some more time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 So today I got my copy of "Love Busters" from marriage builders. Got through the first two chapters and it has given me a lot of hope and understanding. I had read through the overview on the website and there are a few things I know I will not agree with. The mutual consent thing seems like you should sacrifice any individuality for the sake of constant happiness as a couple. How can you be happy as a couple if you give up everything that makes you happy as an individual? But overall the book has given me alot of insight and hope. I will ask my wife if she wants to read it after I am done. It might give her some hope and understanding too. I think she could use some real hope right now. I'm worried about my wife. The seperation at this point hasn't helped her any. She went out with friends last Friday and Saturday and had a good time for the most part. But tonight she was going to go out with some of her co-workers after work. She went and ate, but didn't feel up to staying around for drinks and what not and went home. She sat at home and was lonely. I feel bad because I don't think she is really talking to anyone that is really close enough to her to know everything. And she doesn't talk to the people she is closest to (her parents) because she doesn't want them to know too much about what happens in our marriage. She needs to talk to someone close to her. She needs to get these emotions out in a healthy way to a sympathetic and understanding ear and she hasn't been able to do that. Half of the time she is torn between having no hope for us and the other half she wants to ask me to come home. It is still to soon for her to have me come back though. She needs to face the issues and her feelings and I don't know how to help her do that, and I can't be the one to help her face those issues. I keep reassuring her that this isn't hurting my feelings for her, that she needs to find her peace and that I am ready to talk when she is ready. She doesn't seem angry anymore, but lost and confused. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 First, I have to say, you sound like you're really upbeat and positive in attitude. Good for you!!! I feel bad because I don't think she is really talking to anyone that is really close enough to her to know everything. And she doesn't talk to the people she is closest to (her parents) because she doesn't want them to know too much about what happens in our marriage. She needs to talk to someone close to her. She needs to get these emotions out in a healthy way to a sympathetic and understanding ear and she hasn't been able to do that. Hmmmm.....maybe she's getting to the point of reconsidering the counseling. I wouldn't press her on it, but it couldn't hurt to have the information HANDY. You could call your insurance company and find out what your benefits are, and get a list of preferred providers. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well, things have changed somewhat. I have found a probable reason for her confusion. She is still talking to the other guy on a daily basis. I am backing off and giving her space like she asked, meanwhile this jack@$$ is being the "comforting friend who listens to her problems and she can open up to". So I am seriously thinking about just surrendering. She refuses to not talk to the guy, even though I asked her not to so she could focus on us. If I confront her about it it will destroy everything I have built so far. I am in a no win situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 That sucks!!! The fact that she is sharing her feelings with another man is tantamount to an 'emotional affair'. This is a tough question, and I don't want to stop your forward momentum with all the positive work you're doing by proffering this idea, but: Are you sure that you haven't been 'maneuvered' out of the home and marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 At this point I don't know what to think. I really don't. Just really ticks me off that I have been suffering like this and trying to do everything I can think of to try and save my marriage and she doesn't care enough about it to cut out the cancer that has been causing these problems. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 If I confront her about it it will destroy everything I have built so far. I am in a no win situation. I could be wrong, but I think she owes you some reassurance here. You don't have to be a d*ck about it, but maybe you could ask her why she can talk to him, but not to you. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 I was under the impression that we agreed that when we went into this seperation she wasn't going to talk to him specifically or any other guys she had a strong emotional bond with. That it would just confuse the situation. I have spent the last month questioning everything about myself. Blaming myself for almost everything that is wrong with our marriage, forgiving without even heer asking the things I realize she did that hurt our marriage and doing everything I can to save my marriage and my family. And she can't even give up talking to that piece of garbage until we can get things sorted out with us? I must be the biggest idiot on the planet. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Do you and she have some kind of 'no contact' agreement? Or have you just been giving her space? Did she tell you it was "over" and you're hoping to change her mind? It really shows when I read your posts that you feel remorseful for mistreating her in the past. Did you do something worse than just acting like as a$$ now and then? Because you've really given alot of ground here, without her giving much in return. She KNOWS that you are working on JEALOUSY issues in counseling, right? Why is she exacerbating the situation right now? That's like pouring salt into the wound. Couldn't she find some female friend to talk to for the time being? It may one day come down to an ultimatum. You're the only one who knows when that day will be. Remember, you're fighting with your own innate tendancy toward jealous behavior, and you MUST be on guard to make sure you're thinking is not influenced by it. Ultimatums should ONLY be issued when you are truly prepared for the consequences. What concerns me that by the time you're prepared for it to 'go either way', you may have built up way too much resentment. It would seem fair to me that she agree to go for counseling if she expects for you to live with this state of upheaval. That's just my two cents though. You know your situation best. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 No real agreement, just her needing "space to sort things out" BS. She isn't sorting anything out with talking to him all the time, and hiding it from me. I have done nothing in our relationship such as abuse or infidelity. Hell, what I have posted on here is probably alot harsher on me than the reality is. She has had guy friends that I never had an issue with. But she told me about them, who they were, the kind of people they were stuff like that. I know this jerk is a selfish a hole who only cares about himself and could care less if he destroys a marriage and a family. She is using the jealousy arguement to absolve herself from any of the blame at this point. Him coming over to the house to visit my wife after I left was completely innocent and entirely appropriate, I am just a hyper jealous psycho is what she tells herself. She is living in a delusional world where she believes she is perfectly innocent and I am over-reacting and that everyone else in the world agrees with her. I talked with one of her uncles tonight and he is so ticked off at her for how she has been acting and treating me he is half tempted to grab her by the back of the neck and take her to a counseler. She needs help and things are not going to get any better until she realizes that what she is doing and has been doing for some time now is a major part of the issue. She needs to realize this selfish little mood she is in has big reprecussions on other people. Myself and our daughter for starters. And before anyone gives me the whole she needs to be happy line it won't happen until she gets help. If I am there or not won't change the driving force behind what the real causes of the problems are. Her? Give? She has just taken so far and won't even consider giving anything in return at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Devildog, She's behaving this way because she doesn't respect you. You've been mister nice guy for too long, and she's using you as a doormat. I can't tell you to start divorce proceedings because I realize that marriage is much more complicated than that, especially with children. I think that's the part that really pisses me off just reading your story. She has leverage and she knows that, too. Unfortunately, because you're a guy, the estrogen-rigged family court system is going to give the children to the freaking mother - doesn't matter if she's a drug junkie. Unfortunately, nobody here can give you advice. You obviously want it to work out, but she obviously isn't respecting you, so now you have to decide whether to continue in a bad marriage or go through the pain of divorce and all that comes with it. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Devildog, Ya know, since moving out of the house doesn't seem to be working, why not just move back in and demand that it be worked out? And demand that Mr. Friend leave for good? I know it's a brash move, but if it were me that's what I would do. She knows that this guy is trouble, she's just being a manipulative cunt (sorry, but that's the way I feel about it). From here, it looks like you either go back and fix it or continue moving in the same direction...which is further apart. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 I agree at this point she has been showing me a total lack of respect. The tough part of my decision in this is the fact that she hasn't been herself for awhile. She lost a grandfather, a brother and a daughter within a 5 year period and she has never really let herself grieve, and let the emotions out. She needs help, badly. I feel guilty for thinking of leaving her when she needs help the most. Everyone that is familiar with the situation all thinks she desperately needs to speak to a counselor. But she won't consider it. She adamantly refuses to seek help for her problems and it is destroying everyone who cares about her. They had trick-or-treat in our town tonight and I went along with my daughter and wife. I had to go backtrack and look for a lost flashlight. That was when I was talking with her uncle. She drove by on her way home so I could tell my daughter good night. My daughter was begging me to get in the car and come home with them. This is ripping my heart out and my daughter's heart out. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 Originally posted by amerikajin Devildog, Ya know, since moving out of the house doesn't seem to be working, why not just move back in and demand that it be worked out? And demand that Mr. Friend leave for good? I have tried to push the issue of working it out. And believe me, we had another big go around tonight about the fact that she was talking to him yet. She claims she had only talked to him twice for a few minutes total since the seperation. When I told her the caller ID showed him calling at 11:15 one night that she didn't mention, then she told me there was a 20 minute talk they had, but it was all about him and his ex-wife. I didn't at that point even bring up the fact that the phone we have stores the last 5 outgoing calls, and that the times I stopped by to get things, when I checked it his number was the first to come up. In other words he is the last person she calls at night before going to sleep. But of course I got the same reaction you get from a kid when you find drugs in their room. "How dare you not trust me enough to go through my room!?". When caught being untrustworthy, accuse the person of not being trusting. Apparently I shouldn't be trusting her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 I really hate myself for getting so angry and upset with all of this. My wife has a serious problem. I think she suffers from depression and really needs help! I just don't know what to do to get her to seek help. It has put an incredible amount of strain on our marriage and I don't know how long I can keep from just giving up. My leaving isn't going to help her. She will be right back to this situation in a few months of her next relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 This is bulls***, Dog. Don't do this to yourself. Everyone has problems, but she has an individual responsibility to get a grip, just like you do in dealing with your own adversity. You can understand her problems, but you shouldn't start making emotional sacrifices or become submissive. By blaming yourself, you're enabling her to avoid taking responsibility. Be tough and firm. Do not allow her to do this to you. You have to be the strong one, and being strong means holding her accountable. Do not feel sorry for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 I hear what you are saying kajin, but the reality isn't so simple. I have read up on depression, I have suspected my wife suffers from it for some time. It isn't something people can just will themselves out of. They need help, psychologically, medically and emotionally. I made a commitment to stand by her through good times and bad, sickness and in health. This is the sickness and the bad times. I have realized that the problem isn't me and I haven't done anything majorly wrong. She is angry and she is taking the anger out on me, that is what depressed people do. Link to post Share on other sites
sami Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Why don't you both start working on her anger then???!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devildog Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 I'm open to suggestions on ways to do that sami. Link to post Share on other sites
sami Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Buried and improperly channelled anger is one of the major causes for breakups. You both need to open up honestly and seriously about your life together. Ask her about what she really wants from you and what she has been missing to make her happy and satisfied. She needs to be brutally and bluntly honest about everything once and for all. You can't just stay with her like that for the rest of your life. Try your best to be a positive listener bce she may say very shocking and irritating things. Be ready to hear some negative and sensitive stuff, remarks and comments about your relationship and possibly about yourself or your performance as husband/friend/lover. Think of the unthinkable. Get ready for what may be the worst friendly/aggressive fire in your life. This could be a battle you were not trianed for my friend. Have fun. You'll not be loosing anything I think. Come to it as a win/win case. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Have you seen an attorney yet? I'm now saying that you should pursue divorce or legal separation, but have you checked to see what your rights are? I've posted before that I think you should just go home. An attorney can tell you if you can do that or not. You're in a crappy position here if she decides to end it. In other words, she has possession of the home and primary care of your child already. There would be NO reason for a court to change that if she filed papers before you. Courts act in the best interest of the child, and respond to changes in circumstance. If it 'ain't broke' they don't 'fix it'. She has shown absolutely no commitment to solving the relationship issues. She's not going to counseling. She's not working on the issues with you one-on-one. And while I have alot of admiration for how understanding you have been as far as her 'depression' goes, she's not willing to work on that either....so how can she expect you to validate something she has not bothered herself to diagnose? My heart goes out to her because she's had so many losses, but that is not YOUR fault. Call an attorney on Monday, my friend. Be pleasant, be understanding....but go home before it's too late. I'm worried that your own generosity is going to bite you on the butt. Link to post Share on other sites
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