Marriage in jeopardy due to male "friend" with an agenda

[SoleMate]

Owww....this is a night full of hurt everywhere that I can look. Devildog, I know your wife has done so many wrong things. You are a tower of loving strength to have even tried to forgive her. But my mind keeps going back to your grievous loss. I'm a mother, and even READING about how you two had to make the decision to turn off your little baby's life support brings tears to my eyes. I can't even imagine the depths of grief that you two have had to travel. I think the Bible calls it the "valley of the shadow of death". And the cruelty of it all is, you two had to walk that without each other. I just can't find either of you at fault. Possibly I have the same moral blindness as your wife.

 

I am happy for you that you have come to some degree of acceptance and forgiveness. I understand the grief and regret of wondering whether you, or she, could possibly have done more. Yes, she SHOULD have...but be fair...did she really have the strength? You know the statistics on marriages where a child has been lost to death. Something like 10% survive. The pain is so great, and I believe she reached for a pain pill that happened to be utterly destructive to her married life. And then other factors, like pride and family interference, have done their best to seal the damage and prevent its healing. I pity her deeply as well.

 

No advice here, just some sympathy in the truest sense of the word.

[Devildog]

Originally posted by SoleMate

Yes, she SHOULD have...but be fair...did she really have the strength? You know the statistics on marriages where a child has been lost to death. Something like 10% survive. The pain is so great, and I believe she reached for a pain pill that happened to be utterly destructive to her married life. And then other factors, like pride and family interference, have done their best to seal the damage and prevent its healing. I pity her deeply as well.

 

No advice here, just some sympathy in the truest sense of the word.

 

No, she isn't strong enough. She likes to think she is, that she has picked herself up without any outside help what so ever. It isn't true though. Actually it is more like 5% survive without counselling.

 

The problem here is that everyone, and I mean everyone close to her, that cared and loved her, begged her to get counselling. She didn't need that particular pain pill. She steadfastly refused counselling and claimed she didn't need anyone to help her through it. She told me so many different lies as to why she had to talk to the "friend", even going so far as to claim that he called her one night with a shotgun next to his head. My brother did put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. Using that particular story was not appreciated. In the end, the story she finally claims, which I believe to be true is that she was turning to him to handle the grief of the loss of our daughter. So she knew all along she needed some help, and someone to talk to. Why she insisted on choosing the worst possible person to turn to, the one she knew would be the most destructive to our marriage, the one she knew wouldn't want to have a relationship with her beyond getting into her pants, is the part that is beyond any and all understanding.

 

The saddest part is that I hope she never realizes the reality of the situation. I will move on with my life, and probably find someone that loves me like I loved her. If and when she finally can't lie to herself anymore, and realizes what happened, and ends up regretting everything that happened, I will feel so much guilt that I'll have to turn my back on her and leave her to that life that she created. When she will need me the most I will be unable to help her.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog

I hope she never realizes the reality of the situation. I will move on with my life, and probably find someone that loves me like I loved her. If and when she finally can't lie to herself anymore, and realizes what happened, and ends up regretting everything that happened, I will feel so much guilt that I'll have to turn my back on her and leave her to that life that she created. When she will need me the most I will be unable to help her.

 

I can really identify with that. I've observed quite a few people that I think would be better off NOT realizing their mistakes. Sometimes when it's too late to fix them anyway, it becomes a kindness to just step back and let that person deal with it as best they can.

 

You need not EVER feel any guilt over this. You've done everything possible to rectify the situation. Although I think you will feel absolved when you do decide to "move on" if you let her know it in no uncertain terms.

[Devildog]

The end is finally near. I was served with the divorce papers yesterday afternoon.

 

I was upset by two things with this. First, that she choose now to do it, right in the middle of the first anniversary of our daughter's birth and the first anniversary of her death. I guess she wanted to confine as much sad memories to this two week time frame as possible.

 

Secondly, I never knew it was coming. She didn't bother to tell me she had filed. I asked her why she didn't mention that she had filed, and she claims it slipped her mind. I told her no big deal (about forgetting). She said it was a very big deal for her. Really? Filing for divorce was a difficult thing for you? So difficult and heart wrenching you forgot to mention it and you never even bothered to try to fix our marriage? Sure, keep saying the right things but acting differently.

 

But I asked that the path I am to take be laid out and made obvious to me soon. I guess I got that prayer answered. Now I can move on with my life without looking over my shoulder about it. No more worry about if things will be an obstacle if she changes her mind. I am okay with this, so don't worry about me. I knew it was coming, and I am relieved.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm glad to hear that you're okay. It's not a shock, since you've seen it coming, but still....it must be disappointing.

 

But you know, I'm an annoyingly optimistic person, so I can't help but to look for the silver lining in every cloud.

 

So I'll remind you now that there are New Beginnings to be had after Sad Endings. You can still be a great dad to your little girl, and yet strive for more in your personal life. Because the time of living in uncertainty has past, and now you will be free to make the choices that are best for YOU.

 

You are absolved of guilt, because you did EVERYTHING that you were capable of doing. You can move forward with a clear conscience.

 

It's sad that she hasn't addressed her issues, and it's difficult to accept the fact that we can't always help the ones that we love. Sometimes, it's out of our hands, and we have no choice but to step back and let them do it on their own. It's particularly hard when we know that ultimately they might not have the tools to get the job done, and that they may, in the end, go through life defective at their core.

 

All you can do on that issue is to make certain that you are an active, involved parent for your child, so that you can mitigate any damage created. You can do that best by making an example of the way you live your life.

 

This is one of the reasons why it is so important that you give yourself permission to move on and be happy. I know you can see your wife's mistakes very clearly, and you can see the possibility of regret in her future. But you can't allow that to hold you back from living your life.

 

I'm still of the opinion that she will one day regret all this. The filing of the papers won't stop that. But what is does do for you is give you the opportunity to say "enough is enough".

[Devildog]

I have made my peace with the situation. I am glad to be able to move on with my life without the fear or worry of "is this going to be an obstacle if she changes her mind."

 

I just wish people would let it go and let me move on peacefully. I dropped my daughter off tonight before my wife got home from work. My Mother-in-law was there. She started crying and saying how much she missed me and how sorry she was everything happened like this. I was polite, didn't bring up the letter she sent out trashing me and what not.

 

It feels like they are looking for forgiveness and absolution for all of this. It isn't going to happen. I will move past it, already have mostly, but it won't be forgiven.

 

On the plus side my daughter told me I was the best Daddy in the whole world. Brought a few tears to my eyes.

[Ladyjane14]

Good to hear.

 

I'm sure some of your STBX in-laws are going to have their consciences bothering them for awhile. You don't have to participate in any 'relationship' discussions with them. You can politely decline. It'd be better even than giving in to any temptation to tell them what you REALLY think.

 

It's enemy camp now. Don't give them any ammunition.

 

[Devildog]

I am sure it is just a short term thing for them. I think guilt and the pangs of a conscience are an alien feeling to them. They have always been able to carry on just fine without ever admiting mistakes and apologizing for their actions. I have little doubt this will be any different.

[SoleMate]

I think guilt and the pangs of a conscience are an alien feeling to [my STBX and her family]. They have always been able to carry on just fine without ever admiting mistakes and apologizing for their actions.

I'm curious...how long have you known this? Did you perceive this in your wife before marriage? If so, it could be a good warning lesson for others contemplating marriage.

[Devildog]

Hard to say solemate. Most people tend to overlook and bypass things like this when they are in love. I don't think I ever really realized it until after we were married though, and even then I sided with them out of loyalty and love induced blindness.

 

But it has come into perfect focus now that I have been seperated from the situaion. Outside perspective does wonders.

[Devildog]

So today was my daughter's 3rd birthday. I had her over the weekend so that is when my family and I celebrated, cake and ice cream, presents and what not. I called this evening to wish her a Happy Birthday. My STBXW was less than cordial.

 

If I had called earlier she was going to invite me to go out with them for dinner.

 

WTF? Am I on Double Secret Probation here? I am supposed to know what you are planning when you don't tell me? Eerily reminiscent of the times she played the "well, I was going to say let's try to work things out, but then you said something mean and hurtful so now forget it" kind of crap she used to do.

 

If she really wanted me to go out for dinner "for our daughter's sake" she would have called and asked me to go along. She is just trying to lay on the guilt again.

 

And then she told me she is mad at my family since they didn't call to wish my daughter a Happy Birthday. My brother is her Godfather.

 

Again, my family celebrated her birthday when I had her over the weekend. And after the way her family treated my family for the past 5 years, no way in hell are they going to call that phone number.

 

She said what is happening to us shouldn't affect everyone else. Wrong answer there, it does. It changes pretty much everything. She needs to wake up and realize that. I would figure with most of her family, all of my family, all of my friends, and all of our friends turning their backs on her that she would get that.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog

If I had called earlier she was going to invite me to go out with them for dinner.

 

Maybe you should have told her your crystal ball was in the shop.

 

She said what is happening to us shouldn't affect everyone else. Wrong answer there, it does. It changes pretty much everything. She needs to wake up and realize that. I would figure with most of her family, all of my family, all of my friends, and all of our friends turning their backs on her that she would get that.

 

You're right. It does change everything. She'll see that after a while. It'll probably get worse before it gets better though. She's a hard learner.

 

It might be a good time to put together some ideas on conduct in co-parenting. For example, it should be incumbent upon the parent, who is in possession of new information regarding the child, to pass it on to the other parent.

 

Your wife is deserving of your indifference at this point. You daughter is not, and hasn't been treated to any. Your loving relationship with your daughter hasn't changed and won't change in the future. But your wife can't see that because the treatment that she, herself, receives is different.

[Devildog]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

It might be a good time to put together some ideas on conduct in co-parenting. For example, it should be incumbent upon the parent, who is in possession of new information regarding the child, to pass it on to the other parent.

 

I agree completely Ladyjane. And that is something I have tried to get her to understand. She is of the impression that if I don't call everyday to see how my daughter is doing I don't care and she isn't obligated to tell me about things until I do call. She doesn't seem to get the point that I don't want to talk to her unless I have to. I do call to talk to my daughter during the week and what not, but I still don't like to have to talk to her.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog

She is of the impression that if I don't call everyday to see how my daughter is doing I don't care and she isn't obligated to tell me about things until I do call. She doesn't seem to get the point that I don't want to talk to her unless I have to. I do call to talk to my daughter during the week and what not, but I still don't like to have to talk to her.

 

Well, if she doesn't want to do it the easy way....there's always the hard way. That involves attorneys and court orders, so maybe if you clued her in on just how very sh*tty you might be willing to be if pushed, she might become more agreeable.

 

If you're 100% ready to move on, then you have NO obligation to be sweet to her anymore. Why should you even care what her "impression" is?

 

I'm not saying that you should be reactive or argumentative, but you could very calmly express to her what your expectations are.

 

Close your emotional door, and deny her access. She's getting under your skin still. Your goal here should be INDIFFERENCE.

 

It'll drive her nuts, but that's her problem now....not yours.

 

She's probably still working under the illusion that the two of you will be great friends when all this is said and done. Disabuse her of that notion with great finality, or she'll be up your a$$ for the rest of your life.

 

 

p.s. When she figures out that you are well and truly gone, that's when you need to be particularly wary of her attempts to back-peddle. She'll try to regain control of you. BEWARE!

[Lil Honey]

You have mentioned several times how you don't want to talk to your ex when you call your daughter. When you call your daughter, do you simply ask to speak to her? Other than pre-school/daycare and health information, there really shouldn't be a need to have a discussion with your ex. Try to keep the conversation on track by making a note card of the topics to discuss and stay on track. Like a business meeting. Don't give her the opportunity to lay blame or guilt, etc.

 

There should be a book out there that someone could recommend for being mature ex-spouses to benefit children. And then, if you could get her to read it. There is an increasing number of exes working together to make their childrens' lives less complicated and hurtful. In the movie Troy there is a line that goes something like this, "Even enemies should respect each other."

 

Continue to hold your head up and be the better person.

 

LH

[debilou]

DD,

 

Your wife is manipulating the situation. I understand why you DON"T want to talk to her. It hurts you. She ended the marriage, you were willing to work through it.

 

It sounds like she is controlling. Do I have it right that regardless of what you do or don't do it's just not right?!

 

She's playing games with you because she can. LJ is right about shutting the emotional door.

 

Time tells all tales.

 

Debilou

[Devildog]

You are absolutely right debilou. She is a very controlling person. And everything I do is wrong. I can't win. She won't be mature about the decision she made. She gets ticked off when I refuse to argue with her about topics, and then she pouts and acts childish. I'm just waiting for her to try using our daughter against me. She will eventually get desperate enough to go that route.

[Devildog]

So she called again tonight for tax purposes. That was all good. Then she mentioned about talking to my best friend about his wedding. I posted that about 2 weeks ago.

 

Her response was that "everybody needs to grow up". Well, I hope she includes herself in "everybody" because she is being the most immature about the whole thing.

 

She says she "is tired of being made out to be the town slut puppy." Well gee, maybe if you had been even the slightest bit discreet when you were running around with another man. Everyone told her what she was doing was inappropriate and disrespectful. She didn't care. She continued to flaunt it in everyone's face. And now that she sees reprecussions she wants to be offended? Did she expect her decision to leave her husband in the darkest hours for a wannabe 3rd rate player using High School player tactics would be greeted to applause and chants of "You go girl!!"?

 

I just said "I'm not saying anything to anyone about it." That had two meanings. First, this is everyone's observations. They saw what was going on. I am not going around telling people about it. I feel pathetic that I was left for such a pathetic excuse for life. I don't go around broadcasting what happened. The second meaning was, I am not going to defend your actions. You get to live with the consequences and reputation that you created for yourself. Stop running away from your blame and guilt.

 

It's funny, she says she knows she isn't innocent in this whole situation. She has yet to acknowledge anything she did wrong though. Look at the actions, not the words.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog

So she called again tonight for tax purposes. That was all good. Then she mentioned about talking to my best friend about his wedding. I posted that about 2 weeks ago.

 

Her response was that "everybody needs to grow up". Well, I hope she includes herself in "everybody" because she is being the most immature about the whole thing.

 

Next time, when the business portion of the conversation is concluded, yawn really loud (as if you found her conversation intensely boring)....then tell her you've got to go.

[Devildog]

I should be a quivering lump of mush right now after yesterday. My STBXW called before she brought my daughter over. And she was laughing and joking on the phone. And then she had the freudian slip again. She said I love you again and had no way to deny she said it to me. I sat there in silence. Not knowing what to say. She apologized for saying it, said she did and always will Love me. And then she changed the subject. She dropped of my daughter and stayed and talked for 45 minutes to an hour. And it was friendly, and pleasant. Her boss called her while she was there, apparently doing some employee of the month display at work. She couldn't explain to her boss what she was suggesting, so I told her how to explain it. She said to her boss "My husband said it like this".

 

So I should either be floating on cloud nine with hope again, or be mush right now.

 

But I'm not.

 

Why not?

 

Am I really The One?

 

Can I really stop the bullets?

 

Yes, I can.

 

I don't feel any different after talking to her than I did before.

 

It took alot of pain to get to this point. I really felt like I was dying. And then I picked myself up again. And I rose from the ashes. I was resurrected. And I am stronger than ever. I have my confidence back. People at work comment about my change in attitude.

 

I posted this originally on another thread, but felt it was important to add it here as well. Keep it with the rest of the story.

[debilou]

Be strong.

 

Good luck, Debilou

[Devildog]

I am being strong debilou. I've got my "Morpheous" (nod to LadyJane) and my "Trinity". She should know who she is

[Ladyjane14]

Ladyjane nods back.

 

You have grown wise grasshopper.

 

Ooops! Wrong movie reference.

[Devildog]

Well, I was left a smouldering heap of ashes today. Mar 15 is the end of this nightmare for me. Court date is finally set. The VSTBXW called to let me know before I was actually served the papers this time. That was fine.

 

But then she went back into the whole "I'm tired of being made out to be the bad guy" crap. I calmly pointed out to her that, well, since she was the one who turned to another man, she was the one having another man over to our house while I was at work, she was the one going over to this other man's house and spending time alone with him, she pretty much was the bad guy. And when her entire family tried to tell her what she was doing was totally wrong and inappropriate, she basially said "F**K YOU ALL" and flaunted it in their faces too. And then she wonders why people blame her? Do I need to draw a picture for her?

 

Her response was that it is all my fault. I wasn't strong enough to pick myself and her up after the loss of our daughter. So she had to turn to another man. In other words, even though she didn't have the strength to pick herself up, I was supposed to pick up 2 people. I wasn't supposed to grieve the loss of our daughter.

 

Anyone have any idea how much it hurts to have your grief over a child used as a weapon against you? I still feel guilt over a year later that I couldn't do anything to save her. And the witch used that to tear me down.

[SummerRae]

Originally posted by Devildog

Well, I was left a smouldering heap of ashes today. Mar 15 is the end of this nightmare for me. Court date is finally set. The VSTBXW called to let me know before I was actually served the papers this time. That was fine.

 

But then she went back into the whole "I'm tired of being made out to be the bad guy" crap. I calmly pointed out to her that, well, since she was the one who turned to another man, she was the one having another man over to our house while I was at work, she was the one going over to this other man's house and spending time alone with him, she pretty much was the bad guy. And when her entire family tried to tell her what she was doing was totally wrong and inappropriate, she basially said "F**K YOU ALL" and flaunted it in their faces too. And then she wonders why people blame her? Do I need to draw a picture for her?

 

Her response was that it is all my fault. I wasn't strong enough to pick myself and her up after the loss of our daughter. So she had to turn to another man. In other words, even though she didn't have the strength to pick herself up, I was supposed to pick up 2 people. I wasn't supposed to grieve the loss of our daughter.

 

Anyone have any idea how much it hurts to have your grief over a child used as a weapon against you? I still feel guilt over a year later that I couldn't do anything to save her. And the witch used that to tear me down.

 

sorry if I'm butting in DDog but that's just aweful. I'm sorry to hear that. Some people (who in my view are a little UN-evolved) really do think the world somehow owes them in some way.

 

She'll realize one day what she had! Hang in there.