Marriage in jeopardy due to male "friend" with an agenda

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by sherell

I have to say I think I worked the plan A, plan B thing without really knowing the <removed> program. Sometimes our gut instinct is the best advice we can give ourselves.

 

I did this for a year!!! it sucked, but I held my ground & kept my eye on the big picture. I really wanted my marriage to work, and thank god, he finally came around. If this is really want you want, try to hang in there for as long as you can stand it.

 

Whew!!! It's like flying by the seat of your pants, isn't it?!!!

 

But you're right, sometimes your best instincts are the truest.

[Devildog]

I think by telling her to move on with finding what needs to be done with a divorce got her to realize she wasn't going to have me as a safety net anymore, so she doesn't get to have her cake anymore. So I am going to make sure I am not there for her anymore unless it directly involves my daughter. Here is an email I got from her today.

 

The hurt runs deeper than just Sunday. It's been an on going thing. I never once said it was all your fault that this was happening. You choose to see it that way.....just because I won't answer your questions. Well I have answered them for myself and that is what counts. I just want to be happy again and after the last months and weeks that will not happen with you. I am sorry that this hurts you so much however it hurts me too on so many different levels that you will never know and or understand. I understand that you are hurt and angry but so am I. Too much has been said and or done in the last months between the two of us that I can not recover from them. My hope from this point forward is to make the best of a bad situation for our daughter. she needs both of us not just me. And us being friends for her is what is important now. Nothing else. We now have to be mature adults about this situation for her. she is the child and you need to put her first from here on out. She is always first in my book and everything I do day after day is for her. I spend every wakening moment I can with her.

 

Now most of that is total BS, she passes our daughter off on her sister and parents at least once a week so she can go out and have fun.

 

Impressions of where things stand from this email?

[Devildog]

Ladyjane, you have been a godsend in all of this. Your advice has been extremely helpful and insightful. If things do work out with my wife I know I will have you to thank for a major part of it.

[Ladyjane14]

The hurt runs deeper than just Sunday. It's been an on going thing. I never once said it was all your fault that this was happening.

 

But what has she done to address it? She says it's "not all your fault". But she's refused to get counseling or address her personal issues.

 

.....just because I won't answer your questions. Well I have answered them for myself and that is what counts.

 

She says this as if she has no accountability in making decisions that affect YOUR life. Again, evading personal responsibility. And what questions, btw? Is this pertaining to her 'friend'? Because the marriage is NOT over and she is NOT a free agent yet.

 

I just want to be happy again and after the last months and weeks that will not happen with you.

 

YOU are not responsible for her happiness. Other people don't make you happy. Happiness comes from within, from satisfaction with your life. Granted, a person who is abusive can make you unhappy, but you have NOT been abusive.

 

I am sorry that this hurts you so much however it hurts me too on so many different levels that you will never know and or understand. I understand that you are hurt and angry but so am I.

 

"So many different levels" refers to her guilt. My husband has an astonishing amount of guilty feelings, sometimes over absolutely nothing if you ask me. His response to feeling guilty is to act out defensively.

 

Too much has been said and or done in the last months between the two of us that I can not recover from them.

 

She wants this problem to go away. She hasn't realized yet that it never will. No matter what happens, you will always be connected as parents.

 

My hope from this point forward is to make the best of a bad situation for our daughter. she needs both of us not just me.

 

This is true. Not only does your daughter need to spend extra time with you, but you need to establish right NOW that nobody else is going to step in and be her Daddy. Don't settle for less than 50/50 here. Your wife will turn you into a every-other-weekend visitor in your child's life if you allow it.

 

And us being friends for her is what is important now.

 

This is bullsh*t. She's not earning the right to call herself your friend right now. Co-parenting relationships can and should be civil, but friendship implies a personal bond that she will forfeit if she continues down her current path.

 

Overall, I'd say she's in the "fog", and this is "fog-talk". I'm not sure what role this OM is serving in her life, but unless she's talking about more concrete marital problems than this.......he must be an impediment.

 

Have you been able to ascertain the true extent of her relationship with him? It could be platonic at this time, but if the OM is the one meeting her emotional needs rather than her husband, then the relationship qualifies as an EA, in my opinion anyway.

 

Have you seen a lawyer yet? You don't have to throw in the towel on your marriage to protect your rights. She wants to end your marriage. Don't make it easy for her.

 

She's not herself when she's under-the-influence of both the OM, and her own untreated depression. Don't allow her to make decisions for you.

 

I wouldn't recommend NC yet. I think she wants that, so don't give it to her. I can see a fault in Plan B in that if you haven't carried off a fabulous Plan A, you just end up looking like an a*hole.

 

You want her to see being with you as a very clear and preferable alternative to what she's doing now.

 

Right now, she has everything she think she wants---the house, the child, financial support, the new"friend". The fly in the ointment is the guilt.

 

Maybe it's time to pull her out of her comfort zone? Make her situation less cozy. See that lawyer. Take back what is yours, as far as custody of the child is concerned(at minimum 50/50), and the marital assets. All the while putting on a really great Plan A. This leaves her with less of what she wants, and will make her really angry. But it illustrates the choices that she is making so much better.

 

She can't have it both ways. You don't have to be a jerk to let her know that. You can do it in a very firm and loving way. You can still have sympathy for her and let your love shine through. But that doesn't mean you have to give her her way. She's acting like a child. Treat her like one.

 

Consider posting this to the General Questions II section at MarriageBuilders.

I do think they could really guide you through this.

 

[Devildog]

Well, if I had $1000 I didn't know what to do with I would contact a lawyer. I don't really want to do that right now though.

 

I agree that most of what she is saying is "fog talk". She is very confused and she won't let me close enough to try to be supportive of her and understanding and compassionate as long as the "friend" remains in the picture. She is getting the support and comfort there instead.

 

I am seriously considering stopping by his work and having a talk with him and his father to persuade him to leave her alone. His presence has been the hindering factor in any reconciliation at this point. His continued involvement is what sets off my anger and does damage from my end at this point. And his presence is the thing holding her back from allowing herself to be open to me. She feels not being able to talk to him anytime she wants and seeing him anytime she wants is not negotiable. He has to be out of the picture in my opinion.

 

Thanks for breaking down that email for me Ladyjane. I was unable to look at it objectively and you showed me a lot of valid points regarding her confusion and guilt.

[Ladyjane14]

I am seriously considering stopping by his work and having a talk with him and his father to persuade him to leave her alone. His presence has been the hindering factor in any reconciliation at this point. His continued involvement is what sets off my anger and does damage from my end at this point. And his presence is the thing holding her back from allowing herself to be open to me.

 

I hope you won't do this. It leaves you open to the possibility of losing your temper and exacerbating the situation. It'll only p*ss her off anyway, and make her adversarial in her defense of the OM.

 

Another benefit of getting a lawyer at this time is that you can utilize his/her expertise to put pressure on the OM. Among the possibilities is a letter to the OM asking him to cease and desist in his interference in your marriage, thereby setting up a case for a lawsuit at a later date. In other words, you let him know that you will be bringing a civil suit against him for alienation of affection. Your lawyer can help you set him up for that NOW, so that the case can be successful later.

 

Th OM may lose a considerable amount of interest in this friendship once he knows you're going to be owning-his-ass for the next 30 or so years.

 

You said that money is an issue for you. Are there any attorneys in your area who will give you a free initial consult? Once you're there, s/he can help you find creative ways to pay for the legal service.

 

I don't know what the situation is with you, but if you are a homeowner and you get a divorce, she doesn't get to keep your portion of the equity. You could sell the home out from under her, or make her buy out you out. You could have a garage sale, take a bank loan, or borrow from a family member. The attorney can help you decide what the best course would be.

 

This woman is still cake-eating if you ask me. She's having it all her own way. Shake it up. What in the world do you have to lose? She very clearly has had an agenda of divorce all along. (This may not be what she ultimately wants, but it's what she thinks she wants now.)

 

I say that because she's using the same tactics that I would have used. 'Get him out of the house and play for time until he gets used to the idea.'

 

It's time to GENTLY show her the realities of the situation. She's confused, she's depressed, she's got personal issues, and like I said before it's actually WHOLESOME right now to be sympathetic. But when I said "she's acting like a child, treat her like one", that's what I meant.

 

You wouldn't get angry, or act out emotionally with a child that you were trying to educate. You would be loving, but firm, even strict at times. So don't get angry with her. But DO educate her on the downside of divorce.

 

Sherell posted earlier that this process took her a year. So, it's not going to be fast. It's not going to be easy either. But in the end, only you can decide if it's worth it.

 

That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Devildog]

Well, I did decide that it would probably blow up in my face to confront the idiot in any way shape or form, so I didn't do it.

 

My wife and I had a long talk just now on the phone. She told me she has an appointment with a lawyer on Tuesday. She also finally told me what her and the other guy talked about. They talked about our daughter that we lost.

 

This is the most heartbreaking thing of all of this situation. The reality of the situation is that our love for each other is what destroyed our marriage. She loved me too much to reopen the wounds I had over our lose, and she loved me too much to tell me that she had to talk to someone else about it. And my love for her and desire to be with her wouldn't allow me to accept her talking to him about anything.

 

I wish she could have been honest with me all along about things, but I understand why she felt she shouldn't or couldn't. I wish if she needed to talk about the lose of our daughter she had talked to a grief counselor. I wish we had both gone to grief counseling.

 

I wish she could move past the pain that both of us inflicted on each other through this. She just doesn't feel that she will ever be able to move past it. With understanding and openness I think we could, but I still can't force her into it.

[TMCM]

Devildog,

 

I'm truly sorry for the pain you are going through right now but I'm glad that LadyJane has been giving you excellent advice.

 

The reality of the situation is that our love for each other is what destroyed our marriage. She loved me too much to reopen the wounds I had over our lose, and she loved me too much to tell me that she had to talk to someone else about it. And my love for her and desire to be with her wouldn't allow me to accept her talking to him about anything.

 

I'm sorry but love had nothing to do with the problems in your marriage that are leading it to divorce. The most probable cause is that the marital environment has not been a safe one for both of you to express your deepest thoughts and feelings [intimacy] without hurting each other in the process. BOTH of you share equal responsibility for this.

 

An essential ingredient of Plan A is the immediate stopping of all LB [love busters]. You have let your emotions get the best of you and have LB [love busted] her where all of her 'in love' feelings for you have died. Here's a list of the major LB [love busters]:

 

1. Angry Outbursts or who wants to live with a time bomb?

2. Selfish Demands or who wants to live with a dictator?

3. Disrespectful Judgements or who wants to live with a critic?

4. Independent Behavior or who wants to live with a selfish jerk?

5. Annoying Habits or who wants to live with a leaky faucet?

 

Can you see which LBs you've been guilty of? If you LB your W then your Plan A was D.O.A [dead on arrival].

 

I agree with LadyJane that it SEEMS like your W is having an EA with this OM and not much else . Of course we could be wrong and she may be in a full blown affair with him, so you have to do some very serious soul searching if this turns out to be the case whether or not your can forgive her and not throw the affair in her face if the two of you ever get back together again. Don't say yes without making sure you had time to really explore this fully because the initial phases of marital recovery are a lot tougher than the ongoing affair. You have to be absolutely sure that you can forgive her if her relationship with this OM included extra-marital sex, otherwise you will not be able to save and rebuild your marriage.

 

As far as MC [marriage counseling is concerned], it is a waste of time while there is an ongoing affair. Furthermore, it can be dangerous because the WS [wayward spouse] will only go through the motions without truly putting an effort in implementing the necessary changes to save and rebuild the marriage, and use this a sign that she/he tried but that the marriage was beyond repair.

 

What can you do at this moment? Since your Plan A was D.O.A. I would suggest that you avoid going to Plan B for the time being and consider the following instead:

 

1. Control yourself from getting angry at anything she tells you. Instead listen to her and acknowledge her comments without defending yourself in any way, shape or form even if what she is saying is untrue. Getting yourself sucked in to an argument will not only not help but will further hurt your chances of marital reconciliation. So shake your head in agreement, bite your tongue and after she finishes, politely leave.

 

2. DON'T say to her that you love her and that you've changed. This will only tell her that you are just scared of losing her and that is all lies. Nobody wants a fearful, needy and clingy person as a mate who will say anything for his/her benefit alone.

 

3. Keep any conversation with her light and strictly in regards to non-confrontational issues such as those related to your child and her/your relatives.

 

4. Call your child every day to minimize his/her separation fears and anxieties. She/he needs to hear your voice every day no matter what is happening between you and your W.

 

If you do these things, your actions will speak louder than your words and show your W that you are not the same man. You should always demonstrate to her a confident humility that shows her that you can deal with this situation no matter what the outcome of the marriage is and that the ball is on her side of the court.

 

TMCM

[Ladyjane14]

This is a great post, TMCM. Thanks for weighing in here. I'm not an expert at the MB plan, and I think you explained it eloquently.

 

It might be just my opinion, but I think DevilDog has an excellent chance of putting his family back together with this plan even though the situation looks particularly bleak right now.

[Devildog]

The question at this point is if I want to put my marriage back together. There is a ton of damage that she has done throughout all of this. Alot of lies. And even before she never gave much to the marriage. She is an emotionally immature person who has Mommy and Daddy issues and the things they have been saying about me to the family members that support me and think she has been totally off base and heartless is unforgivable.

 

At this point I will continue with my counselling, but I am not going to do anything as far as trying to put the marriage back together. If she wants to change her mind and try, she will have to do an enormous amount of changing. And I am not holding my breath.

 

Thanks for the advice though TMCM. I appreciate it.

[Ladyjane14]

You know DevilDog, I think it's perfectly okay to put the brakes on a little bit, until you do know what you want.

 

It seems like a 'knee-jerk' reaction to want to rush ahead and fix everything when a separation happens. I'm noticing more and more lately that sometimes people get so caught up in repairing the damage that they don't have time to evaluate the quality of what they are trying to fix.

 

You're the only one who can be the judge of that. But you've been swinging back and forth like a pendulum on this issue and it must be emotionally exhausting.

 

Maybe it's time to give yourself a break from thinking about it for a couple of weeks. Get out and make the most of the holidays, and give yourself a little TLC.

 

[Devildog]

Ladyjane, the pendulum effect has been my dedication and devotion. Part of who I am. I felt I had failed as a man, father and husband to have my marriage fail. But getting some space and talking with the counselor has allowed me to see what a toxic situation I was in. The entire marriage was very one sided and unfair to me. I gave everything I had and got next to nothing in return. And in an attempt to obscure what my wife has done and to try to wish away her guilt, her and her parents have been telling her family alot of nasty things about me. Her extended family, aunts and uncles, loved me. Her grandparents favored me over many of their own biological grandchildren. And they are trying to poison everyone's view of me by saying some vile things. Some things that are taken out of context, some things that they have twisted to make me look bad, and some things that are outright lies. That is what really hurts me right now. That is something I will never forget or forgive.

 

I don't want back into that situation.

 

There has been a few times during this ordeal where I had taken off my wedding band in frustration and anger, and I ended up putting it back on after a few hours because it didn't feel right taking it off. Yesterday I took it off and it isn't going back on. It feels right not wearing it now. I don't feel naked without it, I don't feel guilty not wearing it.

[anewlife]

Devildog,

 

you are doing the right thing, you are courageous and you deserve peace in your life. I am very sad to read about the way your wife is handling things. I believe that in the end you will see that everything happens for a reason and that all of this will teach you to have better relationships in the future. Just keep being who you are and as long as you are true to yourself you will day by day accept the situation in a positive manner. Your daughter deserves to have at least one honest parent who will love her and guide her thru life with pride. Remember that all that matters right now after all of the hard work you have been doing is that you love yourself and that you are there for you daughter. I understand you completely and feel for you. I also believe that sooner or later the tables are going to turn and she will be asking, begging you to take her back, hopefully it won't be to late for her. She will realize that the marriage was worth it and she should have never walked out of it the way she did. She should have been honest with you all along instead of always giving you excuses! excuses! making you believe that you were a bad husband, nope don't settle for that keep your head up and be proud of yourself, it is her lost and she will cry and cry and cry for you sooner or later. Stop spoiling her act with her the same way she acts with you like you don't care. Let her take care of her own, little does she know that there aren't a lot of men out there who are not willing to take care of their family, she doesn't know what she's losing. She had it all with you everything a woman could want in a marriage. And I am sorry to tell you but the person who I would love to talk about a lost child would be my spouse not a "friend" that is BS you don't just go and tell a "friend" your most intimate personal problems. When you marry you marry a friend, a lover, a companion your spouse should be the first to know everything about you if the love is there. I know you love her but I don't believe she loves you.

 

She is lost in her own world and no one will change her mind, she will snap out of it sooner or later. But like I said hopefully it won't be to late for her. I hope that your pain heals little by little in time soon, remember that you have your daughter and don't let her tell you when or when not to have her do the 50/50 because she will need you there in her life.

 

Happy holidays

[Devildog]

Thank you for the kind words anewlife. I have made my peace with things at this point. I still have moments where I still feel the pain of losing my marriage, but those are getting shorter and fewer. Counseling has really helped me to see the marriage and my wife in a true light.

 

I don't doubt that she will wake up someday and realize what she has done and what she has lost. I think a part of her already realizes what she is doing but she is still afraid to admit it to herself or anyone else. She still doesn't want to admit to what she has done to cause problems in our marriage. She says it isn't all my fault, but where I have analyzed everything about myself, been brutally honest and alot harder on myself than I deserved, and even though I have told her all of these things, and even though she has given her opinions on what my problems are, she doesn't feel she owes me any explanation or apologies for this. Oh well, I know what they are even if she doesn't want to face them.

 

But when that day comes when she realizes exactly what she has done and what she walked away from, even if that day is tomorrow, it will probably be too late. Regret on her part isn't enough to get things back together anymore. She would have to show me that she has changed who she has been. She will have to do alot of work on herself if she ever wants to try to reconcile things. And after the things she has done, and the things she has said about me and the things her parents have said about me, it will take a lot of work on her part to patch things back up. And she will never have things as easy as she did before. I will not push my family away like I let her do before. I will not put her parents above all else, including me again. She will not get my unquestioning love and devotion without giving anything in return again. If she wants back, there has to be alot more in it for me than there was before.

 

In other words, I would be willing to try to reconcile and give things another try, but she would have to do alot of things that I don't think she will do unless she really grows up and gets some help. And then only if I haven't already moved on to a new relationship. That is some ways down the road yet, but the window won't be there forever.

[Devildog]

The witch. Damn, I am so ticked off right now.

 

Finally, I had reached a good point in my life. I had rediscovered my strength and my confidence. I could take off my wedding ring without feeling any guilt or remorse. I didn't feel naked without it, or that I was betraying our marriage. I WAS IN A GOOD PLACE!!!

 

And today she calls and apologizes for what she did. Today she feels guilt and remorse over how she treated me and what she did and what she has put me through. Why now? Why after she talked to a lawyer to start the divorce process does she feel a need to apologize and feel remorse?

 

She has thrown me back into that dark cold abyss that I had struggled to climb out of.

 

Was it because when she called me after the appointment with the lawyer that she finally saw how ticked I was at her? That I didn't want to be friends with someone who treated me so coldly and so hurtfully? That I didn't like her as a person anymore? That I was only going to be civilized to her for our daughter's sake? That I didn't want our paths to cross unless it involved our daughter? Did she assume I was going to be there no matter what? That after she got done playing rebellious teenager I would be waiting to welcome her back with open arms?

 

Does she think she can still walk back into our marriage and pick up where things left off? That we can just go back to how things were?

 

It isn't going to happen that way. I don't know if she is feeling remorse and regret and wants to finally try to save our marriage or not. But if that is her intention she is in for a real wake up call. Our marriage will not be the same. It will not be the cushy situation she had before. She will not get to experience my unquestioning devotion and love and not give anything in return. She will not push me to the back of the line. She will not put my family so far below her own. And she will never so much as wave to the bastard if she sees him in the grocery store or wherever, much less speak to him. Only then would I even consider trying to make a go of things again.

 

Damn it.

[Ladyjane14]

Today she feels guilt and remorse over how she treated me and what she did and what she has put me through. Why now? Why after she talked to a lawyer to start the divorce process does she feel a need to apologize and feel remorse?

 

Good question. Maybe she is realizing what she is giving up. Maybe the lawyer is instructing her to play nice in order to keep you from being vindictive at settlement. Lots of maybes.

 

Best bet is to not make any more overtures in her direction until her agenda finally comes to light.

[Devildog]

It just really sucks being pushed back into those feelings when I was finally getting things back on track with my life and emotions.

 

I can't offer counselling or reconcilliation again. It would just put me back into the safety net situation.

[sherell]

Whenever I read your posts, it really puts me back where i was a year ago. Damn it, the pain, confusion and rollercoaster of emotions just makes you want to jump out of your skin. I think she sees now that you have gotten to your breaking point. Shes no longer hearing, lets work on this, I love you, etc.. She may be scared ****less that she has lost you for good. Well maybe thats a wakeup call for her. I've lived this. When I finally told my husband I was done, and felt I really meant it, thats when he woke up because he did not really want to lose me. It took time but after that things started to turn around. I can tell you that our relationship has never been better I understand what you want in your relationship, and you should have it! . Is she saying she wants to try counseling now? if so, don't close the door unless thats what you really want. It seems you still love her deeply inspite of the things she has created. Please don't close the door out of anger, do it only from a place of real clarity. You will have to dig deep to find that.

[Devildog]

Well, now that I have been told the truth by her sister....

 

She has slept with him. And now all of a sudden things aren't so hunky dorey with them. Yeah, he got his piece of @$$ and isn't interested anymore, go figure. But she still insists they are just friends. And the worst part is I can't say anything about it without betraying her sister, who has stood up for me again and again against her family in this.

[anewlife]

Devildog,

 

I am stunned; I don’t know what to say. I feel your pain and can imagine how you must be feeling right now. Like Sherell said don’t do or say things out of anger, make sure that you really mean what you say. I too believe that you are still in love with her and you are hurting a lot. I feel that you don’t want to loose her and that you have that hope for your marriage to work out. Anything is possible when you do things the right way, you really need to make sure that she tells you the truth about the other guy or you will never be in peace with your marriage unless you are really willing to just forget that he ever existed. Like I said before your wife is just full of excuses to fulfill her needs, she hasn’t been really fair by lying and making up stories of why the marriage wasn’t going to work??? When all along she knew what she was doing and where she was heading with the separation. now that she sees the reality and realizes that there will be no other man like you, she wants to fix things but she is still not willing to admit her affair with the friend and her feelings for him.

That is not healthy for any of you. She needs to be honest and admit that she had or has feelings for her friend and that he was the reason she was planning on throwing everything away. Maybe it was just an itch she had and it’s over with now. No wonder she was ok with you leaving just like that !!!! Why? Because she had someone else to fall back on with no problem. I am sorry you have to go thru this and I hope she is really willing to give this a try, she has a lot of balls to just apologize like nothing ever happened. Good luck and don’t make things to easy you have to make sure that this is what you both want and that she is not just coming back to you because it is not working out with her friend. I don’t think he will be out of the picture just like that, he will keep hunting her down once she throws him out of the way. He won’t be able to stand it that she wants to be with you. He is a lousy person who has no respect for himself . It is not all his fault when she allowed this to happen too. I hope that she decides to go to counseling for her own sake.

 

Take care,

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog

Well, now that I have been told the truth by her sister....

 

She has slept with him. And now all of a sudden things aren't so hunky dorey with them. Yeah, he got his piece of @$$ and isn't interested anymore, go figure. But she still insists they are just friends. And the worst part is I can't say anything about it without betraying her sister, who has stood up for me again and again against her family in this.

 

How reliable is Sister's information? And since you can't confront Wife without busting Sister, is there a way that you can get proof?

 

Geez, I'm sorry.

[Devildog]

That is my dilema at this point Ladyjane. My wife still flat out denies anything ever happened. So I have her word against her sister's word. My wife hasn't been honest with me about this situation at all. Her sister, I never really got along with very well in the past. So I don't know who to believe in all of this. I have no evidence of anything, just my wife's word against her sister's word. I want to believe my wife isn't like that, but I also didn't believe she was capable of alot of the things she has been doing. Unfortuantely there are some inconsistencies with both stories I hear.

 

She has expressed a desire to just be able to be friends, that is why she is apologizing, she says. I don't know what to do with the situation. It's like I keep getting sucked back into the abyss.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Devildog ...

She has expressed a desire to just be able to be friends, that is why she is apologizing, she says. I don't know what to do with the situation. It's like I keep getting sucked back into the abyss.

 

I hope you told her that you don't let your friends treat you that way. Your friends don't pitch you out on you a$$ from your own home and ruin your family dynamics.

 

Geez....I haven't used that "let's-just-be-friends" number since I was a teen-ager.

 

I think it's patently unfair to take away everything that a man has worked for and throw it away, just because the wife isn't as slap-tickled happy as she thinks she ought to be. Then to have the audacity to ask him if he wants to be your "friend".

 

Tell her FAT CHANCE. ----And how come she can afford a lawyer and you can't????

 

If you are past wanting her back, and you can CONTROL your temper (that's the biggy), consider contacting the OM and telling him you know everything. Act like she already told you, and put him on the spot without time to compare notes. Just ask him what in the world you EVER did to him that would make it okay to have a sexual relationship with your wife.

 

Maybe he'll spill if you don't ask him directly and if you act like you've already got the goods.

 

DO NOT take one word of the above advice if you have ANY reason to doubt your self-control. I mean it. You'll end up in jail otherwise.

 

Sorry for the vent. I think I need to take a break from this place for awhile. People are p*ssing me off lately.

[Devildog]

The sad part of all of this is the fact that I honestly believe she is psychologically messed up and that is the problem. After her brother died, she never got counseling, and she never really dealt with his death well. After this is when she started to change. She clung to her parents more than ever. And her parents are nuts as well. And when Our daughter died I think it sent her over the edge. I really dont't think she is playing with a full deck. It makes me sad to realize what she is doing and putting me through is because of her head being screwed up and that she needs help. I want to help her, but you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

 

I still care about her and it hurts me to think about what will happen when she finally does realize what she did and how horribly and unjustly she treated me. It makes me sad to think that by the time she realizes all this it will most likely be too late. That she will have to live the rest of her life regreting what she did and losing out on pure devotion and love.

 

But the hurt and damage is so deep. And I can never forgive her parents for the way they have treated me. We can never have a relationship if my wife doesn't put some distance between herself and them.

 

I hate that I have ended up half hating her and half feeling sadness for her. I know I am much better off outside of that family, but I truly loved, and still love, my wife. I don't want her to have to suffer. I guess being an honorable, devoted person means you are a sucker.

[Ladyjane14]

Like I told you before, I think sympathy is a good thing.

 

I'm concerned about what TMCM mentioned to you earler though. What would be the effect on your decision to continue the marriage if you found out in a definative way that she has been physical with this guy?

 

I don't think that you can make a decision on the marriage itself until ALL the facts are in. Meanwhile, you're left in limbo.

 

You must feel really betrayed by her family. One of my husband's friends who I've known for over 2 decades told him he ought to leave me if that's what it would take for him to be happy. That hurt like a b*tch.

 

But I had to forgive him, even though he never found out that I knew. Because he is my husband's friend, not mine, and he was just doing the best he could. It would have been wrong to expect him to be loyal to me at the expense of my husband. And who knows, he might have been trying to illustrate the reality of the situation to my husband and I may have misunderstood hearing it second-hand.

 

The end result is that you finally find out who your friends are. And you know who you can trust in the future. That's a gift if you choose to look at it that way.

 

Are you enabling your wife at this point? Or is she seeing the reality of a life without you in it?

 

Are you in fact willing to be her friend rather than her husband?

 

Lots of questions at this point.