HopingAgain Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Speaking for myself alone, this does not apply. I am neutral, I don't care, and why should I? May as well be a random person in Timbuktu for all I care. Irrelevant to my life. If anyone here believes this, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to you! 7 Link to post Share on other sites
threelaurels Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I truly care as much as I would for a random person I've never met from Timbuktu or Alaska or Mars for that matter. Then why say anything at all? Why do you care whether or not she knows about the affair? Why criticize her appearance? I don't spend my time on the internet critiquing the looks and personality of people I've never met and don't matter in my life. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
HopingAgain Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Time to chime in here. The BS also has the opportunity to make things right in the marriage, which they don't a lot of times. Say what you want, I'll be eaten alive for this I am sure, but IN MY SITUATION BS did nothing. Only now is she freaking out that my bf is done. Why didn't she care years ago? Jeebus. And exactly how much time did you spend in their home, observibg their interactions to know this is true? 7 Link to post Share on other sites
ScarlettKaren Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I've been pondering this question a while. I truly never had animosity toward her. I'd seen her prior, she never seemed to be someone I should feel that way about and MM and I never spoke ill of our spouses so I was never given reason to feel that way. My feelings about her were complex. I didn't want to be hurting her. I had fallen in love with her husband. Just a horrid mess, that I tried to push to the back of my mind. When that wasn't possible it was a set if conflicting emotions most often resolved by trying to help him and not myself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SweetiePie12 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Why do you care whether or not she knows about the affair? I wouldn't classify it as an affair, because he's not married. I care about what you allude to, however, because I care about him, and he's sacrificing way more than I (who sacrifice nothing) for his involvement with me. Why criticize her appearance? Because I thought she would be beautiful. I don't spend my time on the internet critiquing the looks and personality of people I've never met and don't matter in my life. Yet you are so inclined to do so toward me (appearances aside). Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I have to agree with LFH, in that I believe the MOW's animosity towards me was because she wants my WH and may be jealous maybe not. I can understand that dynamic. Here's what I don't understand, MOW thinks I am damaged, has told me so, my WH probably told her so. Given I'm sure none of us are perfect or we wouldn't be here right? I have issues, my WH has issues. Many of my issues are due to my WH's Narcissistic tendencies, which was brought up by his therapist. I know this is not all MM/MW, but to have an A in the first place, IMO there has to be some kind of issue to begin with. My WH's issues make mine look pale in comparison to his, yet I was the broken one (according to WH and MOW). I did not know this was my WH until very recently and I have been with him for 17 years so... sometimes you think you know someone and you really don't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I have to agree with LFH, in that I believe the MOW's animosity towards me was because she wants my WH and may be jealous maybe not. I can understand that dynamic. Here's what I don't understand, MOW thinks I am damaged, has told me so, my WH probably told her so. Given I'm sure none of us are perfect or we wouldn't be here right? I have issues, my WH has issues. Many of my issues are due to my WH's Narcissistic tendencies, which was brought up by his therapist. I know this is not all MM/MW, but to have an A in the first place, IMO there has to be some kind of issue to begin with. My WH's issues make mine look pale in comparison to his, yet I was the broken one (according to WH and MOW). I did not know this was my WH until very recently and I have been with him for 17 years so... sometimes you think you know someone and you really don't. Or, sometimes you will allude to, omit, concoct, any scenario of information imaginable to sustain and justify getting into somone's pants. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SunshineToday Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 For instance, (just an example here) the ow who says, mm's wife is a real bitch to him, I've heard him and her talking on the phone and she is so mean and hateful to him. The smart ow..........should say......ummmm, I wonder if he did anything to invite that kind of treatment. I mean........who knows, maybe she is sick and tired of his sorry ass because he has already had 5 other affairs. The point..........it's not smart for an ow to blame all on her. It takes two and ow's don't know the real story. SOOOO true! Love this because I see it on this board all the time, the OWs who just know how terrible the BS really is. No matter what MM tells you--what you think you heard on the phone---if you don't live there---you do not know! 6 Link to post Share on other sites
who_am_i Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Speaking for myself alone, this does not apply. I am neutral, I don't care, and why should I? May as well be a random person in Timbuktu for all I care. Irrelevant to my life. SweetiePie...I don't think it's coincidental that a majority of the threads you comment on have a tendency to go south quite fast. Whether she is fat or ugly in your opinion is really quite irrelevant...especially to him...as he doesn't appear to be leaving her. If he never leaves her then you will never have a real relationship. This undeniably makes her 100% relevant to your life. I think a lot of the xOW who post here never woke up the morning of d-day thinking that today is going to be the last time I speak to MM. I'm quite sure that there are a good many who were blindsided by his disappearance after months or even years full of I love yous. They also believed blindly and loved fearlessly, yet were left heartbroken. I'm not saying this is what your future holds. All I can say is that should it, you shouldn't be surprised if you are met with the same compassion you show. You make no apologies for your actions and you are definitely entitled to your options, but if you're looking for people to consider them, you might want to reevaluate your approach. 12 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Few! I finally got through the first few pages. Lady Grey, Crazy Sad Funny!! It's good when we can laugh even in the face of tragedy. H's exOW disliked me too (hated actually). I felt really bad about that because of the lies she believed about me. I get that she could have simply not liked me having what she wanted though but all the other bologna I think, well, I just don't understand I guess. I suppose if I hear something about someone, I try and still think the best in them or there has to be some Reason for it but hate them and be mean & cruel to them/about them? Nah, it's not in me yeas attacked directly... So far Coco's is the funniest lol* I'll read the rest now* 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SweetiePie12 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If he never leaves her then you will never have a real relationship. This undeniably makes her 100% relevant to your life. I couldn't disagree with you more. Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sweetie! For Pete's Sakes!! Don't go and get this thread disappeared toooo** lol 7 Link to post Share on other sites
2sure Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Many OW and BS take on the stance that they are somehow competing with each other...and whether or not they come right out and say it, it becomes evident in their posts. And it's natural to a degree. But sometimes it gets to seem as though winning is not so much based on getting the affair partner, it's seeing that the other one doesn't. It's crazy making. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 my opinion has always been that i cannot feel animosity towards someone unless they purposefully aim to hurt me. I can't agree with that. Some people deliberately hurt those I love (like my son) and I wish they did not exist. Some people, through their arrogance and ignorance (such as homophobes or racists) behave in ways that do not hurt me personally but I find reprehensible. I think it was perfectly natural for the BS and I to have animosity for one another. The trick is/was to acknowledge it, and deal with it with perspective. No point in either party wrangling themselves inside out. It's nothing personal, as such, can't be - we didn't encounter one another or have a relationship of our own. That stuff just needs to be taken on the chin if you're going to consider having an affair. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SweetiePie12 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You refer to the BG in your situation as an "it". So you DO care. No, I don't. I sometimes wonder: are you lying for us? Wonder not. I don't. Nothing in it for me. Link to post Share on other sites
georgia girl Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Here's my opinion, for what it's worth: 1) It's natural. Two women love one man. (Or two men love one woman.) The other person is standing in the way of a monogamous relationship with the object of their affection. So, just as an OW naturally has animosity towards a BS, I would think the same is true for the BS having animosity towards the OW? 2) In between both the BS and the OW - again - is one man. What we know about him is that he can get two phenomenal women to fall in love with him. We also know that he can lie successfully. You simply cannot have a hidden relationship without being able to lie successfully. So, if that man chooses to use his considerable skills to help justify the reason for a second relationship in his life, my guess is that he can probably do it well. One can imagine that he can take the smallest detail of his BW or her actions and amplify it so that any reasonable person would think, "Wow. She is a BTCH!" (Same goes in the other direction, by the way.) Like one poster said, it's honest to acknowledge those feelings. I think its also helpful to do so, because it allows you to understand them and ultimately reconcile them. In the end, I think it's kind of silly to pretend that they don't exist. On the other hand, what I see here and what affirms my belief in human nature are people on both sides of the fence showing compassion, empathy and understanding for the poster who is in an opposite role. That's pretty amazing stuff. You impress me. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
snowflakes88 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You refer to the BG in your situation as an "it". So you DO care. It takes a ton of animosity to refer to a sentient being as an object. I sometimes wonder: are you lying for us? Or do you really believe your own baloney? Fake it til you (theoretically) make it, methinks. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 During the affair I had no strong feelings towards here whatsoever. She really was a non entity for most of it and while I had no ill thoughts I just really didn't have any thoughts. After the affair onward there has been more direct interaction where I think both sides agree they aren't loving the other's actions but again no strong emotion towards hate. She may frustrate me at times but I assume the feeling is equally returned. But as someone that is really just on the peripheral of my life I can't drum up the emotion to hate; but I don't hate anyone. Too much energy to do so. I haven't agreed with everything but I am sure my opinion means as much as the reverse. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lillyfree Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Speaking for myself alone, this does not apply. I am neutral, I don't care, and why should I? May as well be a random person in Timbuktu for all I care. Irrelevant to my life. that's good SP. i would however hate to think what you'd be saying about her if you DID care. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lillyfree Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 I can't agree with that. Some people deliberately hurt those I love (like my son) and I wish they did not exist. Some people, through their arrogance and ignorance (such as homophobes or racists) behave in ways that do not hurt me personally but I find reprehensible. I think it was perfectly natural for the BS and I to have animosity for one another. The trick is/was to acknowledge it, and deal with it with perspective. No point in either party wrangling themselves inside out. It's nothing personal, as such, can't be - we didn't encounter one another or have a relationship of our own. That stuff just needs to be taken on the chin if you're going to consider having an affair. that's ok, you don't have to agree. when someone aims to hurt those i love, i take it as them trying to hurt me - especially my children, i don't only view them as an extension of myself, they come before me. so that's when i'd be going for the throat. as for homophobes and racists, and other obtuse and bigoted people - i don't feel direct animosity towards them, unless the action of a particular person directly affects me. i feel sorry for them, and disagree with them, but i don't invest strong feelings towards them as people. but i digress. i don't see how you can consider it not being personal though - it IS highly personal, and i do believe that (especially if you know about each other) there IS a (very weird) sort of a relationship going on. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) SOOOO true! Love this because I see it on this board all the time, the OWs who just know how terrible the BS really is. No matter what MM tells you--what you think you heard on the phone---if you don't live there---you do not know! I think maybe it's about boundaries for some and simply blurring the lines between their own feelings and thoughts and MM's, which seems to happen often. Example: when an OW says the reason something is okay is because MM says it's okay. That is just as baffling to me, as things don't work like that for me. If MM says sleeping in his marital bed is okay, for ME and my own boundaries and standards it is NOT okay, so him saying it is means diddlysquat to me. Whereas I've seen the excuse that well MM said he didn't think xyz was a problem therefore the OW didn't either. It's in the same vein as MM disliking his BS and complaining about her, so OW absorbs these feelings like a sponge too, albeit not knowing this person. Like the "mean girls" mentality, I do think some people with poor boundaries operate this way in both friendships and romantic relationships, i.e. they simply absorb the opinions of their lover or friends as their own. I totally understand empathizing. For example, when friends complain about their SO or ex or another person whom I don't know well, but know through their stories, I empathize, but it's not enough for me to start strongly disliking them too. It definitely skews my opinion of course and when I meet this person I perhaps am seeing them through that lens, but I still have enough awareness to know that there is a difference between a second-hand account of another's behavior and my own personal experience with it. I cannot rightly claim I dislike/hate them if I only know of them through another...it's absurd. But LFH and others made good points, in that, when you love someone, esp in the scenario of an A where there is sharing and obstacles, jealousy can rear its head and lead to more irrational feelings of dislike. It's not particularly a shining moment, but normal. I didn't feel that way about the "BS" in my case, and I think in large part it was because my exAP didn't give me enough info about her for me to torture myself with or compare or latch on to negative things etc. which was well played for his and my own sanity. But I have felt strong and irrational dislike for an ex's new gf, sparked by jealousy because I still had feelings for him. I knew it was jealousy though. I simply saw pictures or social media posts and constructed an entire negative story about this person, as it made me feel good to feel like he was "downgrading." It didn't help that I didn't think she was attractive or smarter than me....so I focused on those things and it made me feel smug and soothed me at the time. So I actually do get it in the jealousy sense, as that's the only way it makes sense. Edited June 11, 2013 by MissBee 7 Link to post Share on other sites
secretlady76 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think a lot of it is to do with the MM/MW slagging off the spouse, so the AP has this vision in his/her head of this monster of a spouse. Then when D-Day hits and the AP goes back to this monster spouse, the AP is reeling. Personally I had the situation of my BS having it in for MM, MM's BS having it in for me, both BS's not having a problem with eachother and me and MM basically avoiding eachother. Yes, I'll admit I went through a period of not liking MMs BS, especially when she went for me in fromt of my children, but on the other hand, had I been in that situation I probably would have done exactly the same things (no infront of the kids). I quickly realised that there was no point in having it in for MMs BS, because in fact she hadn't actually done anything against me (apart from villifying me and making up bull about me persuing her husband). We did in fact have something in common and that was, that the man who professed to love us both had deeply hurt us both, so really my negative feelings should be directed towards him and not her. Now I feel indifferent towards her. I have no problem. As for him, well, I now feel indifferent too. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Had H or anyone else for that matter, said derogatory things about the OW I would have stopped them and told them I didn't need to hear any of that and that to listen to stuff about someone I hadn't met was not my way. I also told H that he had chosen to have an A with this person, so she couldn't have been that bad. I don't understand why anyone thinks it OK to say awful things about someone they might never have met, have third hand information, listening is as bad. When a WS chooses to stay married to this so called awful person, I would be asking myself if he was telling the truth. why he chose to be with that person if it was all so bad and on D Day, if there was a chance to leave why it wasn't grabbed with both hands and run for the hills. I understand the jealousy bit, but that only cuts it so much, surely realising that the WS is being shared simply by virtue of them being already married and both AP and WS making the choice to have a relationship with that as a major factor make the BS the elephant always in the room. However, to make assumptions and form negative opinions based upon what the WS has said is, IMHO, not a good thing. It is in the best interests to paint the BS as less than, how else can they tell themselves it is OK to hurt another human being. I so wish people wouldn't fall into this tit for tat name calling. I would ask myself why he stays if it is so dammed bad and how he is able to maintain the facade at home if he isn't behaving as usual and saying all the things married folk say, including ILY. The BS isn't always an ogre, no more than the AP a (fill in the derogatory word). 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 i don't see how you can consider it not being personal though - it IS highly personal, and i do believe that (especially if you know about each other) there IS a (very weird) sort of a relationship going on. I held no illwill towards her as a person, but as the person married to the man I was in love with, and I felt not treating him fairly, I had an issue. But it was that she was his wife I had the issue with, not that she might be a terrible person or someone I would not take to in real life. That's what I mean by not personal. Fair or not, it was her label of wife as much as anything else. Hope that's made more sense. Link to post Share on other sites
SweetiePie12 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Here's my opinion, for what it's worth: 1) It's natural. Two women love one man. Two? In my case, there's more. He's truly all that. Girls be mad crushing on him. Men, too! Link to post Share on other sites
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