1FootOut Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 I held no illwill towards her as a person, but as the person married to the man I was in love with, and I felt not treating him fairly, I had an issue. But it was that she was his wife I had the issue with, not that she might be a terrible person or someone I would not take to in real life. That's what I mean by not personal. Fair or not, it was her label of wife as much as anything else. Hope that's made more sense. The fact is...that she IS the WIFE. What did you expect? That "issue" isn't really with her, it's with YOU. HE is also her HUSBAND, did you not take too kindly to that label as well? I wonder why the OW often feel a sense of entitlement. 6
HopingAgain Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 The sense of entitlement is often given by the MM. You attempt to leave the A, he attempts to keep you. He lies, he tells you his marriage is over, he makes plans for a future with you, you discuss long term life goals with eachother in mind. He wont allow you to date others and wants you to be exclusive to him only. It's very much like a real R where any other woman would feel entitled. Won't allow you to date others? How does that work?!?
SweetiePie12 Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Won't allow you to date others? How does that work?!? ...one of the beautiful realities of an OW: we operate under no delusion that anyone owns anybody. 1
HopingAgain Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 ...one of the beautiful realities of an OW: we operate under no delusion that anyone owns anybody. You're misunderstanding what she said. "MM won't allow OW to date others", so that is contradicting what you're saying above is an OW is ALLOWING a married man to restrict her dating life as a single woman. 2
Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 The fact is...that she IS the WIFE. What did you expect? That "issue" isn't really with her, it's with YOU. HE is also her HUSBAND, did you not take too kindly to that label as well? I wonder why the OW often feel a sense of entitlement. What did I expect? I didn't expect anything from her at all. I mostly had an issue with her moving out to be with her OM then moving back but still seeing her OM. That seemed cruel to me. Then, over time, I also had an issue with him allowing that situation to come about. It doesn't mean she was a bad person or a good person, I couldn't be the judge of that.
1FootOut Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 And now we're going to go in this direction? Really? It was a nice conversation without people digging at one another and we actually seemed to be . Here's some truth whether you like it or not. Write this down. The ow feel a sense of entitlement to have feelings towards him, because the HUSBAND encourages it. He shares things, he shares himself and in many cases a whole lot of everything. Sometimes he's lying to the OW about how he feels, sometimes he's not, sometimes there are WHOLE real relationships going on. So, when someone does that with you, it's human nature to have feelings for them. Not that complicated really. It's like asking why the wife would feel "entitled" to have those feelings before they got married. Because he shared a relationship with her and probably made promises, right? That "awesome" husband was obviously also making promises to someone else. It wasn't a dig, she said that her issue was the fact that "she" was married to the man she was in love with...and didn't like that "she" was his wife. To me, that's a kinda kooky "issue" considering that she was "the wife" even when she met her MM. 1
Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 It wasn't a dig, she said that her issue was the fact that "she" was married to the man she was in love with...and didn't like that "she" was his wife. To me, that's a kinda kooky "issue" considering that she was "the wife" even when she met her MM. You understood my response well and good then, you just didn't like it. 2
ladydesigner Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) ...one of the beautiful realities of an OW: we operate under no delusion that anyone owns anybody. It's not only the reality of an OW. I am a BS and fMOW and not once in my relationship pre-marriage or post marriage did I feel I owned my WH. It has been quite the opposite in fact. WH has tried to establish control/ownership over me (even to this day post A). What I count on in a M is monogamy and that is what I want. Monogamy is what I expect. I know I cannot handle sharing my man with another woman and that is why all the broken NC was driving me nuts. It's like sh*t or get off the pot:lmao:. Sure in the beginning I was scared that I would lose WH to MOW, but I cannot stop him. What bothered me is why he kept me and her on the line. I didn't want to share. MOW was okay with sharing (I guess). Honestly I probably would have been better off if he had left to be with her. Instead on 4th DDay I checked into inpatient to get away from him and her and told him I was leaving him that we needed to discuss finances and kid schedules. I was done. Plus I am sure if OW found out about OOW it would probably feel similar to what a BS goes through. My WH had an OOW, MOW did not know about her. I did because I uncovered all of his deleted texts. Edited June 11, 2013 by ladydesigner 1
SweetiePie12 Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 My WH had an OOW, MOW did not know about her. I did because I uncovered all of his deleted texts. How???????
ladydesigner Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 How??????? My WH is very Narcissistic and he thought he was pretty good at going under the radar until I outsmarted him. I can't disclose his occupation, but it would definitely allow him to be able to hide an OOW. My WH was all about being validated and having his ego stroked. He felt like a rockstar until it all blew up in his face.
georgia girl Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 The ow feel a sense of entitlement to have feelings towards him, because the HUSBAND encourages it. Great point, LFH! I missed that in my response, but when I read what you wrote, I could totally see this. The WH's actions do encourage a sense of "coupledom" with the AP and therefore would foster that feeling of belonging to you. 3
Got it Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 If people want honest answers, then they need to accept the ones they get. If they question of belittle statements, then the answers will go back to snotty and snarky attempts one upmanship instead of actual productive back and forth. Whether it's "kooky" to you or not is irrelevant. When you deal with human emotions and feelings there is very little logical, not on the part of anyone nor in any relationship. The fact is...that she IS the WIFE. What did you expect? That "issue" isn't really with her, it's with YOU. HE is also her HUSBAND, did you not take too kindly to that label as well? I wonder why the OW often feel a sense of entitlement. Why? Because the husband rolled out a red carpet with trumpets and fanfare that encouraged said beliefs. I thought that is a pretty basic understanding on this whole dynamic. 1
Author Lillyfree Posted June 12, 2013 Author Posted June 12, 2013 I held no illwill towards her as a person, but as the person married to the man I was in love with, and I felt not treating him fairly, I had an issue. But it was that she was his wife I had the issue with, not that she might be a terrible person or someone I would not take to in real life. That's what I mean by not personal. Fair or not, it was her label of wife as much as anything else. Hope that's made more sense. it does i find that to be an understandable thing. after all, we are human. guess i was the same to some extent - it was the fact that she was the one out in the open, i was the dirty secret... and wished for what she had (and then felt bad for doing so). but i never had anything against her personally, and would have never referred to her as 'it', or ugly, or fat. 1
Author Lillyfree Posted June 12, 2013 Author Posted June 12, 2013 Two? In my case, there's more. He's truly all that. Girls be mad crushing on him. Men, too! nobody's all that he's obviously very good at telling you stories of how good he is though ... 1
LilGirlandOW Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 I'll be honest, I've never felt jealousy in my life until I became involved in the A, and I'm honest with my MM, I'm absolutely jealous of his wife, and yeah jealousy sucks big time. I try to focus on our time together, I never in a billion years would have thought I'd ever be in the situation I'm in now, I could be with any man I want, not to sound cocky, but I'm by most accounts young and beautiful, yet I'm in love with him. Someday's honestly that fact gets swallowed like a jagged pill.... its tough, it really is. 1
SweetiePie12 Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 My WH is very Narcissistic and he thought he was pretty good at going under the radar until I outsmarted him. I meant how did you recover deleted texts? My friend got mad that I had to send a detailed, explicit text today, but -- it was urgent.
MissBee Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 ...one of the beautiful realities of an OW: we operate under no delusion that anyone owns anybody. I'm sorry, but have you just returned from the International Bi-annual Conference of OW in which it was agreed upon as a corpus and written in the bylaws that "we operate under no delusion?" If not, you can only speak for yourself and not as though OW are this organized group who uphold agreed upon mottos and beliefs. Some OW are delusional, like some BSs are, like some MM are. There is no "we", OW are people like any other, who represent all aspects of the spectrum. 12
Author Lillyfree Posted June 12, 2013 Author Posted June 12, 2013 I'm sorry, but have you just returned from the International Bi-annual Conference of OW in which it was agreed upon as a corpus and written in the bylaws that "we operate under no delusion?" If not, you can only speak for yourself and not as though OW are this organized group who uphold agreed upon mottos and beliefs. Some OW are delusional, like some BSs are, like some MM are. There is no "we", OW are people like any other, who represent all aspects of the spectrum. oh. didn't you get the membership card? the rules and regs are on the back. 3
cocorico Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 The most popular boy in school dated every decent looking girl. When it came to be my turn I shot him down because I wasn't about to drink from a cup the whole school put their mouth on. For this reason he chased me for years, only going away when my husband made it clear there would be consequences for his unrequited torch. I am now 38. At my last reunion all the girls were STILL fawning over him, a few had heart break store lies to tell. One girl in particular was bragging she slept with him a few months ago. He made a bee line for me. Hearing I was divorced he begged all night, tried to friend me on Facebook and asked the SAME braggart girl for my number. I told her pint blank after twenty years he should know there will NEVER be a day in his future with me. The girl was shocked and asked why. My retort: "ever notice I'm the only one he chases? Maybe when you learn to not give him what he wants you'll become the exception". It never phases to amazing me how gaggles of women will enable and foster cretin behavior in certain males with attractive features. Then they lament how they aren't the chosen one and the girl he does sweat has little regard for him. What they don't understand is: people don't respect what comes easy, they don't value/cherish what they didn't have to work hard to get. When you throw yourself like rice at a wedding at some decent looking guy and think you have done kind of bragging rights, women with self control and self respect will be disturbed at how soft headed the braggart is. Doesn't take talent to be a side piece, any hooker can fill that role. I think here is some truth in this. Any woman can become a W. it's he easiest thing in the world - all she has to do is stop saying no to every man that begs her to M him. Becoming a W is easy, any woman can fill that role. Being a lover or a life-partner s different. The man has to prove himself, work hard to win her and keep her, because she's under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to continue to put up with him of she no longer wants to. She can simply walk - and because he knows that, he will turn himself inside out earning the privilege to be at her side.
waterwoman Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 I think here is some truth in this. Any woman can become a W. it's he easiest thing in the world - all she has to do is stop saying no to every man that begs her to M him. Becoming a W is easy, any woman can fill that role. Being a lover or a life-partner s different. The man has to prove himself, work hard to win her and keep her, because she's under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to continue to put up with him of she no longer wants to. She can simply walk - and because he knows that, he will turn himself inside out earning the privilege to be at her side. it is possible to be both - a life-partner AND a wife. One does not preclude the other. 8
cocorico Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 it is possible to be both - a life-partner AND a wife. One does not preclude the other. It's possible, sure, but from reading here one gets the strong impression that it is exceptionally rare. I can't agree with that. Some people deliberately hurt those I love (like my son) and I wish they did not exist. Some people, through their arrogance and ignorance (such as homophobes or racists) behave in ways that do not hurt me personally but I find reprehensible. I think it was perfectly natural for the BS and I to have animosity for one another. The trick is/was to acknowledge it, and deal with it with perspective. No point in either party wrangling themselves inside out. It's nothing personal, as such, can't be - we didn't encounter one another or have a relationship of our own. That stuff just needs to be taken on the chin if you're going to consider having an affair. I think I'm the opposite. I relate very much to the first paragraph, not so much to the second.,I think had she been different - less toxic, a nicer person, etc - she would have continued to mean nothing to me either way. It was only through her behaviour that I actively came to dislike her. She stopped being a nonentity and became persona non grata.
woinlove Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 Any woman can become a W. it's he easiest thing in the world - all she has to do is stop saying no to every man that begs her to M him. Becoming a W is easy, any woman can fill that role. Certainly not the easiest thing in the world - it's even easier to become an OW, isn't it? If one wants to be with a MM, you can take your pick on internet sites set up for that purpose. These are swamped with MM looking for OW. Meanwhile, marriage sites have the opposite ratio in men to women. More mail order brides than mail order husbands. It's possible, sure, but from reading here one gets the strong impression that it is exceptionally rare. But it is even rarer for OW/MM, isn't it? First most affairs last less than 2 years and most MM seem to choose to stay with their W. You put down wives and marriage, but secret affairs among OW/OM and MM/MW are much more likely to bring pain and hurt. And it brings home the topic of this thread, why the animosity, even when an OW or former OW is happy with her affair? To me, happiness and animosity don't go together. Animosity typically arises from jealousy, guilt, unhappiness, discontent. 13
Silly_Girl Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 it does i find that to be an understandable thing. after all, we are human. guess i was the same to some extent - it was the fact that she was the one out in the open, i was the dirty secret... and wished for what she had (and then felt bad for doing so). but i never had anything against her personally, and would have never referred to her as 'it', or ugly, or fat. Yes, I get you. And I never did the name-calling thing. I found the whole situation somewhat 'unfortunate' for all, to be honest. No winners in it, in my view. 1
Silly_Girl Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 it is possible to be both - a life-partner AND a wife. One does not preclude the other. I agree. The ideal (for me personally) is that it's one and the same. The reality is often different, but it definitely happens.
Silly_Girl Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 I think I'm the opposite. I relate very much to the first paragraph, not so much to the second.,I think had she been different - less toxic, a nicer person, etc - she would have continued to mean nothing to me either way. It was only through her behaviour that I actively came to dislike her. She stopped being a nonentity and became persona non grata. But my situation was probably more borne out of apathy and a lack of self-awareness (on everyone's part, to be fair) but yours was very different. I wouldn't have swapped with you
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