amazing kind of fate ... or not?

[waterwoman]

I vote for ...not.

 

facebook ain't fate. If it is there is a hell of a lot more 'fate' about than there used to be ...

[srf9]

hello again folks...

 

 

I really don't want to expose my wife OR myself to any kind of a SEX related disease...yikes! And I know that there are many ways to get something like that.

 

Not trying to frustrate anyone here with this thread

 

I appreciate the comments and just being able to write this down and talk about.

 

A few months ago, when I started talking to my wife a little bit about my feelings with our marriage. She was surprised...she thought everything was going along just fine. She doesn't really think too much about things I suppose, more of the person who just lives her life.

 

I have heard her friends say things like "Gee I wish my husband...." or "If my husband was like yours" .... stuff like that kind of reinforced my feelings that I was not being appreciated? I know that sounds bad...but that was just how I feel.

 

Then this OW comes along who, granted she is vulnerable I think and she is like a live-in-servant at home, but anyway a little bit of attention towards this OW pays huge amounts of appreciation in return. I agree too with the other posts....in that could it be maintained forever? If myself and this OW ran away together....what would that be like in 10 years? Still fawning over each other?

 

I have told her that she probably wouldn't like me...tried to detail my bad habits. She tells me how she gets angry and mad, but I can't help seeing that she gets angry and mad because of how she is treated. Maybe my eyes are way tooo rosy for her.

 

We both acknowledge that we are on our best behavior together.

 

I honestly think that if we did too much more than kissing....she would be very upset...and so would I. Not in the moment, but the next day and the following day. To be honest....sex is not my #1 priority in life. Its not #10 either....I don't think I would want to risk myself and this OW becoming so attached to each other that it consumes both our lives.

 

I don't want to not talk to her either. Is there such a think as FWLB ? Friends with light benefits?? hahah .... no laughing matter....

 

We texted last night, discussing her feelings and the latest little freakout she had here sunday evening. We both agree that neither of us are in any position to leave our respective families. We both agree that we want to keep seeing each other. We even had come up with "rules" a few weeks ago to try to keep things from getting to carried away....no SEX for example....but still allows for fantasy ideas we are both interested in....

She says how she and her H are just roommates basically, she has felt that way for years. But has kids at home still to raise....4-5 years and she says once they are in college....she wants to leave. Says she has been saving some money for a while to try to be able to do it.

 

She says she was feeling guilty, even though she doesn't really like her H anymore. some days she likes him....most she says she does not. I was feeling a little guilty here and there as well. Told her that. I think she was feeling more guilty though.

 

I did say.....and I really mean it...I can't burden her more. I feel she has so much in her life that she is bearing the responsibility for. If I add guilt and more burden to her.....I would hate it. I would have to try to find a way to distance each other at that point. Or maybe it would be too late by then...and we would be 'breaking up' ??

[srf9]

remember, what You do is what you Have to be accepting of with Your Wife the OW and... Your daughter. So when she's M someday w/a child to raise and starts romping around w/a MM Fifteen years her elder, give her a hug and tell good for you while High Fiving the MOM*

It'll be just, oh so... perfect. Won't it? Can't you just picture it?!

Champagne for everyone!!

Cheers dude.

 

no...that does not sound perfect....

 

referring back to my other post a few minutes ago.

i was talking to OW last night via text....while we both said that we can't bear the thought of not seeing each other or talking to each other....

 

i told her....i don't want to burden her with guilt, just adding more pressure to her world. i was trying to be painfully honest with her.

 

told her....that i am not wanting her to leave her family. she loves her kids so much and they are her #1 priority. she has to be there for them. i have kids too, and don't want them growing up in a split home.

 

but then i want to see her...

 

i told her I could share her for years...seeing her when we can....maybe a trip here and there...lunch rendezvous...just to be with her.

 

but i told her....i think she deserves so much more than that. i don't want to be a selfish jerk....trying to setup time to be together...shuffling her around our schedules for a few hours of togetherness. she did not think i was jerk....i am not sure i agree with that though.

[srf9]

Your WIFE deserves much more than what you're giving her. Remember her? Your WIFE? The one you SHOULD be thinking about?

 

You ARE being a selfish jerk.

 

i can't say i disagree with you.....

 

regarding my wife, i do remember her

 

that's part of the issue....i feel like i have given her so much...then i feel underappreciated, kind of like everything that i think i do is just "matter of fact" no big deal. i am using that to justify why i should be able to feel this way with the OW.

 

those are the hard facts i think.....

 

my wife has given me a lot of space to pursue a variety of interests (not i don't mean seeing OW!), she has supported me in a few tough times and been a good partner for sure. we have many positive things in our marriage and life....maybe things that other people spend their entire life trying to achieve and never get? i think i would be foolish to burn that all down.....there are several things that keep gnawing at me though, but like I said....i am not perfect and I am sure i aggravate her.

[Journee]

Yikes, and I thought you were possibly coming to your senses. This will be catastrophic for you all if you proceed and it sounds like you will.

 

Have you ever thought about an open marriage? Unconventional and not for everyone but if you plan to add this type of excitement for years to come. Sharing your OW as you put it.....then why not allow your wife to have the same benefits? You can keep your family intact as far as the world can tell and you can get your jolly's. NO?

[srf9]

Yikes, and I thought you were possibly coming to your senses. This will be catastrophic for you all if you proceed and it sounds like you will.

 

Have you ever thought about an open marriage? Unconventional and not for everyone but if you plan to add this type of excitement for years to come. Sharing your OW as you put it.....then why not allow your wife to have the same benefits? You can keep your family intact as far as the world can tell and you can get your jolly's. NO?

 

i am not yet convinced i will keep proceeding with the OW. I don't want to have her out of my life. But I am not incapable of breaking it off. I certainly do not want to yet...but I have done many things I didn't like doing in the past

 

open marriage....yeah... i don't see my wife doing either side of that. she does know that I am friends with other women (and i mean really friends). she calls them my "girlfriends" ... to which i deny because they really are not.

 

my wife has told me numerous times how she keeps getting hit on though.....random places. the mall? parking lot at pet store? getting sandwiches for lunch? in the freezer isle?

 

i said before, she is very fit and good looking, runs about 12-18 miles a week, works out. part of that is because of the bubble i have built here. she works 'part time' about 4-5 hours a week (professional job though) and has a lot of free time. which burns me that the house is a disaster area most of the time. but i can wash my own dishes and do my own laundry when i need....i could go list several items like this....

 

i am not out there hitting on women in grocery stores. i don't think i would ever do that....but she tells me that that stuff when it happens, and it irritates me a little. i have actually said to her....once...you should have met him! i was irritated that day for a variety of reasons....knowing how straight-laced she really is...i think that guy would have been in for a shock.....

[srf9]

she finally bought a hamper last week to get some clothes off the floor! i told her how friggen hot and sexy that was

 

 

i am not yet convinced i will keep proceeding with the OW. I don't want to have her out of my life. But I am not incapable of breaking it off. I certainly do not want to yet...but I have done many things I didn't like doing in the past

 

open marriage....yeah... i don't see my wife doing either side of that. she does know that I am friends with other women (and i mean really friends). she calls them my "girlfriends" ... to which i deny because they really are not.

 

my wife has told me numerous times how she keeps getting hit on though.....random places. the mall? parking lot at pet store? getting sandwiches for lunch? in the freezer isle?

 

i said before, she is very fit and good looking, runs about 12-18 miles a week, works out. part of that is because of the bubble i have built here. she works 'part time' about 4-5 hours a week (professional job though) and has a lot of free time. which burns me that the house is a disaster area most of the time. but i can wash my own dishes and do my own laundry when i need....i could go list several items like this....

 

i am not out there hitting on women in grocery stores. i don't think i would ever do that....but she tells me that that stuff when it happens, and it irritates me a little. i have actually said to her....once...you should have met him! i was irritated that day for a variety of reasons....knowing how straight-laced she really is...i think that guy would have been in for a shock.....

[srf9]

You poor baby...no wonder you decided to have an affair. OMG, what a HORRID wife you have. She deserves every bit of what you give her, right?

 

Wrong. Again, you're a selfish jerk. Bet your wife can come up with a million things you do wrong, too.

 

Poor selfish widdle baby has to wash dishes once in awhile.

 

clearly i am no peach. if nothing else...this thread proves that i obviously have several serious short comings as person which may have only started to come to the surface over the last few years.....

 

maybe that is the answer? i am not a nice guy....selfish jerk...exploiting a vulnerable married woman just to make myself feel good?

 

if that is the case...and it very well may be....do i take a break from everyone? do i focus more on my wife? or does the wife and OW deserve to just be free of me?

 

thinking about causing pain to the OW....who i think has the sweetest heart in the world....makes me feel horrible.

 

i don't want to hurt my wife like that either....but....i feel like i have some 'credits' built up in that area? awful thing to say right??

[Journee]

I have to be honest here. The way you are talking about your wife is disgusting. Your marital issues are so easily solved it is almost silly.

 

If you don't like something you HAVE to voice your grievances for any sort of change. I bet your wife is not just joking about your "friends" being your girlfriends. She is probably masking some fear and insecurity there. Also by telling you about the men that hit on her she may be throwing a sign in your face. Like "Hey buddy! I am desirable..why won't you make me feel desired?" Her not picking up some dirty clothes does not make her deserve to be betrayed and I think you know that.

 

Also, if you let your wife know what you have already been up to she may change her mind about the invitations that she gets.

 

You even admitted that your wife wasn't aware there were any issues or that you were make believing you were unhappy. How can she fix it? I am still taken aback by people who cheat and their inability to put themselves in the place of those they betray. If your wife started making out with and couldn't live without one of the freezer section men, you would be very hurt.

 

C'mon man. Some dirty linens do make her deserving of your behavior. Like I said in a previous post ,she may have assumed that you have done some of those wonderful things for her and your family ,because you love her. Why shouldn't she think that? If that isn't the case and you did those things for pats on the back then say so!

 

Yeesh. Another one that needs to learn the hard way.

[Journee]

clearly i am no peach. if nothing else...this thread proves that i obviously have several serious short comings as person which may have only started to come to the surface over the last few years.....

 

maybe that is the answer? i am not a nice guy....selfish jerk...exploiting a vulnerable married woman just to make myself feel good?

 

if that is the case...and it very well may be....do i take a break from everyone? do i focus more on my wife? or does the wife and OW deserve to just be free of me?

 

thinking about causing pain to the OW....who i think has the sweetest heart in the world....makes me feel horrible.

 

i don't want to hurt my wife like that either....but....i feel like i have some 'credits' built up in that area? awful thing to say right??[/QUOTE]

 

 

lol:laugh::laugh: omg. Are you for real?

 

I am so through....either you are pulling our leg or you are truly a lost cause.

 

Not wasting my time here. C'mon BOTR...let us depart.

[srf9]

i wasn't trying to shift any of this to my wife...saying she does "X" so I that makes me want to do "Y". None of what this thread details is directly because of her...that was not my intent.

 

i have not really voiced any of my grievances....until a few months ago. Took me several hours to explain what could have just been one paragraph. in the past, when i tried to discuss a few things...she got very defensive. i actually asked a friend of mine (female) how to approach this and got some very good advice.....which was nice and helped a lot.

 

 

 

 

I have to be honest here. The way you are talking about your wife is disgusting. Your marital issues are so easily solved it is almost silly.

 

If you don't like something you HAVE to voice your grievances for any sort of change. I bet your wife is not just joking about your "friends" being your girlfriends. She is probably masking some fear and insecurity there. Also by telling you about the men that hit on her she may be throwing a sign in your face. Like "Hey buddy! I am desirable..why won't you make me feel desired?" Her not picking up some dirty clothes does not make her deserve to be betrayed and I think you know that.

 

Also, if you let your wife know what you have already been up to she may change her mind about the invitations that she gets.

 

You even admitted that your wife wasn't aware there were any issues or that you were make believing you were unhappy. How can she fix it? I am still taken aback by people who cheat and their inability to put themselves in the place of those they betray. If your wife started making out with and couldn't live without one of the freezer section men, you would be very hurt.

 

C'mon man. Some dirty linens do make her deserving of your behavior. Like I said in a previous post ,she may have assumed that you have done some of those wonderful things for her and your family ,because you love her. Why shouldn't she think that? If that isn't the case and you did those things for pats on the back then say so!

 

Yeesh. Another one that needs to learn the hard way.

[srf9]

We are wasting our time.

 

i would not say that...i really really appreciate all the feedback.

 

i have no one to discuss this with.

[Owl]

i would not say that...i really really appreciate all the feedback.

 

i have no one to discuss this with.

 

Here's the problem...just as before...all you want to actually DO is discuss the problem.

 

Regular posters here prefer to deal with folks who want to FIX the problem...and have no interest in DISCUSSING the darned thing to death.

 

If all you want to do is talk about it...this probably isn't the site for you.

 

IF, SOMEDAY, MAYBE you decide you actually want to change something....you might find help here. Until then...you're not likely to get what you want from us.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Owl

[srf9]

Oh well...I didn't mean to lead everyone down a winding path to no where and just ramble on and on about my life "woes" and how wonderful I think this OW is.....

 

that's why I had thought about calling a professional. I was actually looking at listings this morning. I don't know what do....I don't feel as if my issues are "easily fixed" maybe I am wrong there.

 

How do I fix my feeling that I feel taken advantage of? I know it sounds stupid and childish (i.e. referring to my comments about clothes/dishes). But I feel like I have provided this lifestyle for my family, that is pretty limitless for all practical purposes, and then I feel taken advantage of. Its even extends to her parents.

 

So I am finding appreciation in this OW....that's bad. I know.

 

Sorry if I am frustrating people. I appreciate the replies

 

 

 

Here's the problem...just as before...all you want to actually DO is discuss the problem.

 

Regular posters here prefer to deal with folks who want to FIX the problem...and have no interest in DISCUSSING the darned thing to death.

 

If all you want to do is talk about it...this probably isn't the site for you.

 

IF, SOMEDAY, MAYBE you decide you actually want to change something....you might find help here. Until then...you're not likely to get what you want from us.

[srf9]

She has told me other things...maybe she has tried with another man? I don't know. She says she has not....maybe this entire thing is just B.S. entirely?

 

 

(n i know I shouldn't respond, but I'm bored so what the h@ll)

 

Are you frickin' kidding me? Your other woman puts a pool cover on, does some yard work and does housework and you think she's being treated like little more than a unpaid servant?

get real!

 

I do all those things, plus a whole lot more as well (not the pool cover part, we don't have a pool) and do you know why? Because I am an adult and recognize that having a house means that you have to look after it. my husband is away at work all day and doesn't have time to do these things...I do, so I do them!

 

she owns the house along with her hsuabnd. Would it make you feel better if he did all the work while she sat watching soaps? Poor 'widdle unappreciated wife! Did it ever occur to you that you are seeing a very skewed image of her marriage? Hta maybe he works 12 hour days and coems home dirt tired and doen;t have time to do the housework but she does?

 

besides, for someone who does all the work, she sure gets to spend an awful lot of time out with you...

 

Look at it this way. If your wife was cheating on you, what kind of guy would YOU look like?

 

 

Seriously...put the damned trains away and get real...if you wnat to cheat and have an affair then just do it...don;t make a bunch of excuses to make yourself feel better and to make her seem like some poor woman who's treatment borders on abuse simply because it makes you feel less guilty...

 

stop running down your wife and her husband, grow up and start taking some responsibility...at mid 30's and mid 50's, you two ought to know better

[Owl]

Oh well...I didn't mean to lead everyone down a winding path to no where and just ramble on and on about my life "woes" and how wonderful I think this OW is.....

 

that's why I had thought about calling a professional. I was actually looking at listings this morning. I don't know what do....I don't feel as if my issues are "easily fixed" maybe I am wrong there.

 

How do I fix my feeling that I feel taken advantage of? I know it sounds stupid and childish (i.e. referring to my comments about clothes/dishes). But I feel like I have provided this lifestyle for my family, that is pretty limitless for all practical purposes, and then I feel taken advantage of. Its even extends to her parents.

 

So I am finding appreciation in this OW....that's bad. I know.

 

Sorry if I am frustrating people. I appreciate the replies

 

So what...specifically...is it that you want?

 

To end the affair?

 

To end the marriage?

 

To continue both affair and marriage?

 

What's your 'goal' here?

[waterwoman]

TBH with you OP I don't blame you for being fed up! I would be too. In fact I am. Frequently I have been for years and have often tackled it with H - his utter blindness to household dirt and mess. With varying effects. But here's the thing. He was the one who had an affair, not me! And even if I felt so frustrated with him that I was the one who went astray, it would still have been unjustified. I do think you need to see MC to sort this out.

[srf9]

So what...specifically...is it that you want?

 

To end the affair?

 

To end the marriage?

 

To continue both affair and marriage?

 

What's your 'goal' here?

 

 

I like seeing this OW ... I still love my wife.

 

Is there no hope with this OW...we can't share time together...and this is destined for complete failure and catastrophe? I don't want that to happen to either of our lives...hers or mine.

[Owl]

I like seeing this OW ... I still love my wife.

 

Is there no hope with this OW...we can't share time together...and this is destined for complete failure and catastrophe? I don't want that to happen to either of our lives...hers or mine.

 

So in summary...your 'goal' is both affair and marriage to continue as they are going right now?

 

If so...what help is it that you're asking for? Seems like you got that going right now, no?

[Owl]

He's still entitled to discuss here. The board IS for support and discussion... if you or others don't want to participate then don't. I said I wasn't going to because I am sensing a bit of deja vu... but I felt the need to say something on this subject, because I don't want any new posters to see you say that and think that they can't post to talk about things. I find it frustrating when people think that one can only post because they want a solution. Sometimes people need to talk things through to get to a resolution on their own, or to even figure out what direction they want to go in.

 

You raise a great point. The issue that many have is that he guises this to make it appear that he's wanting help with something...which clearly isn't the case.

 

And I agree with your recommendation too...those of us that don't like endless debate don't have to participate. With that thought, I'm out.

[srf9]

So in summary...your 'goal' is both affair and marriage to continue as they are going right now?

 

If so...what help is it that you're asking for? Seems like you got that going right now, no?

 

 

part of what I was trying to decide, look for opinions on, what have you....was is there no middle ground here? that was my analogy with boarding the train.

 

are we saying that it is not possible (or me and OW are past the point) where we can have some kind of a relationship? am I truly locked on a course where its either....

 

1. never see this woman or speak to this woman again

2. we are on a 100% track for crazy sex, running off together, constant emotional roller coaster, and destroying everyones lives?

 

are these really the only options? by enjoying talking to this woman and seeing her....and yes i have kissed her....are we both on that train picking up speed until it crashes? really??

 

that is probably my main issue here. yes...yes...i obviously have some flaws in that I am seeing this other woman anyway. keep in mind...i am not planning some ulterior way to take this woman to bed and have sex with her. i think that would be horrible to do to her....in that she would be so guilty and I probably would be too. I'm sure it would be a fun time...but....i don't think it would exponentionally better than just being with her and kissing her....

 

if i am really on track for #2.....i have to find a way to pull this back without everyone getting in deeper, even though I cant imagine not talking to her.

 

last night...when we texted....we were talking about her feelings. she was feeling guilty, but says she wanted to try to figure out how to make it work...couldn't handle the idea of not seeing/talking together.

 

i basically thought we had 4 options

 

1. immediately stop talking/seeing/etc....complete break-off

2. we run off together and never look back

3. pretty much what we are doing now...talk, see each other when time permits, and try to keep things within a 'rule book' (i.e. no sex)

4. we go all in....no rules...stay with married partners...and see how that turns out

 

we both said...can't do #1 right now

 

#2....she has to raise her kids, so do I, and i'm not ready to leave my wife. even though about 1 year ago...i wrote a little Leaving You letter on my computer. Deleted it...more for a self-therapy i suppose. I've researched divorce, how it would affect things I am interested in/etc.

 

#3....pretty much where we are right now....

 

#4....we both said...that would be too much to handle together and that #4 and #2 go hand in hand?

 

so...are these discrete options? or is a progression that goes through all four and leads to ruin?

[srf9]

How about if you ask your wife which option she likes best?

 

i sense a trend here

probably good advice.....i should stick with my hobbies that do not involve other women......

[Owl]

Generally, affairs can't/don't last forever.

 

Odds are, one or the other of you will get caught, with those odds increasing over time.

 

Your hope for a "middle ground" is unfounded. Once discovered, very, very few BS's will allow any kind of further contact if they choose to reconcile.

 

Which means...while you can put off making a choice right now, at some point you're very likely to end up being FORCED to choose...quickly, and permanently.

 

You can't "go back" to "just a friendship" after an affair...one person or the other will always retain those feelings of love, and that prevents a normal friendship from resuming as though the affair never happened.

 

I personally find your posts rather disturbing...I've never met a man who's seemed so completely and utterly helpless. In truth, I find it almost impossible to believe that your posts are authentic and you truly are a man...your word and phrase choice along with your prioritization of feelings over your own ability to make choices seems far more feminine than masculine to me.

 

The problem you face is that you are so completely focused on how good all this feels right now, you're preventing yourself from truly looking at this situation with any real objectivity, nor with any REAL compassion towards your wife, or her husband.

 

Personally, I think your best hope at this point is that one or the other gets caught sometime in the near future...FORCING you to make a choice and change this situation permanently.

[Owl]

i sense a trend here

probably good advice.....i should stick with my hobbies that do not involve other women......

 

No...you should follow the advice that was included in that post AND TELL YOUR WIFE.

 

It ends the situation your in, it frees your wife to make her own choice, and provides the same opportunities for your affair partner and her husband.

 

It's actually good advice that you SHOULD FOLLOW, RATHER THAN IGNORE.

[srf9]

That's what i was wondering....i hate the idea that because of just peeking into Pandora's box here...i have destroyed the ability to have any kind of relationship with this woman. friend or not...i am not sure i can accept that right now.

 

hahahah - now that is funny, made me laugh. I really am a man, i not pulling peoples legs here. I am very much a type-A person, run my own business for last 15 years, and am a licensed race car driver (not professional racing). you cracked me up with that

 

that being said....one of the biggest changes i have found in myself over the last 5-8 years is wanting that feeling that someone else had adoration for me. i haven't gotten that from my wife in a long time...many things feel routine with her.

 

so i don't know if i am "helpless". Only been a few months with this OW...kissing is amazing...the things we both say to each other. some of it has to be genuine? it can't all be bull..... what can I say...I have a soft spot.....and am probably a selfish-ass to go with it....

 

 

Generally, affairs can't/don't last forever.

 

Odds are, one or the other of you will get caught, with those odds increasing over time.

 

Your hope for a "middle ground" is unfounded. Once discovered, very, very few BS's will allow any kind of further contact if they choose to reconcile.

 

Which means...while you can put off making a choice right now, at some point you're very likely to end up being FORCED to choose...quickly, and permanently.

 

You can't "go back" to "just a friendship" after an affair...one person or the other will always retain those feelings of love, and that prevents a normal friendship from resuming as though the affair never happened.

 

I personally find your posts rather disturbing...I've never met a man who's seemed so completely and utterly helpless. In truth, I find it almost impossible to believe that your posts are authentic and you truly are a man...your word and phrase choice along with your prioritization of feelings over your own ability to make choices seems far more feminine than masculine to me.

 

The problem you face is that you are so completely focused on how good all this feels right now, you're preventing yourself from truly looking at this situation with any real objectivity, nor with any REAL compassion towards your wife, or her husband.

 

Personally, I think your best hope at this point is that one or the other gets caught sometime in the near future...FORCING you to make a choice and change this situation permanently.