Things the Struggling Fellas can do (besides whine)

[JuneJulySeptember]

I had most of my dating successes AFTER 35.

 

Yes many people marry in their 20s but they divorce in their 30s. And yet they (both genders) date again, even though they are well past the age of 30 or even 40.

 

It's not nearly as grim as you make it sound.

 

Oh, I didn't know you were that age. I thought you were like some 24 year old kid telling me to stop whining. Maybe I'll listen more now.

 

I didn't mean to say it's grim. I've had most of my 'success' after 30 as well. But it's a lot easier to meet women in your 20s no question.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why is it "staying down" if you learn to be happy not attmepting to try to get a women anymore?

 

Ive found it a much happier place then constant rejection

 

This thread, though, is aimed towards the struggling, whining fellows. They clearly are not happy yet, either by changing their interactions with women or giving up on the whole idea entirely.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Eh, if I get to be 35 without ever kissing a girl

 

I'd just bet that there is some kindhearted woman from your neck of the woods right here, right now, on LoveShack who would zip over and relieve you of the burden of never having kissed a girl. That's just wrong and should be remedied.

[Philosopher]

I think the best thing to do is to go out and try to meet as many people as possible, male or females, to expand your social circle. Join clubs and classes on things that you enjoy where you can easily meet people, Attend meet up groups, Socialise more with work colleagues and so on.

 

Building up a larger social circle this way will firstly mean you will care less about finding a girlfriend because you will have other things to occupy your time and will be more able to rely on your social circle for companionship. Secondarily the more people you know the more likely you are to meet someone you like or be set up with someone who might like you. It is lot easier to meet someone this way that cold approaches in some random bar.

[PJKino]

This thread, though, is aimed towards the struggling, whining fellows. They clearly are not happy yet, either by changing their interactions with women or giving up on the whole idea entirely.

 

If you havent attracted a women by a certain age id advise them to consider giving up because its obvious by a certain point youre A. obivously not physically attractive to women and theyres also something inherently about you and your whole being that turns women off but isnt soemthing specific you can fix through diet or anything else

[CryForNoOne]

If you havent attracted a women by a certain age id advise them to consider giving up because its obvious by a certain point youre A. obivously not physically attractive to women and theyres also something inherently about you and your whole being that turns women off but isnt soemthing specific you can fix through diet or anything else

 

It would seem to me that if it were done in a proper clinical / professional environment, an experienced / attractive lady could make $$$ and be doing a huge social service by providing all these desperate guys with a GF experience. I mean seriously like training. I guess the legal issues and risks of many of the guys being creeps makes it impractical. But what a priceless service that would be in a perfect world...

[fortyninethousand322]

It would seem to me that if it were done in a proper clinical / professional environment, an experienced / attractive lady could make $$$ and be doing a huge social service by providing all these desperate guys with a GF experience. I mean seriously like training. I guess the legal issues and risks of many of the guys being creeps makes it impractical. But what a priceless service that would be in a perfect world...

 

You know what? I'd actually pay good money for a girl to show me a day between a boyfriend and girlfriend.

 

Not anything sexual beyond just kissing/making out (if even that). But like holding hands, sitting on the couch together, you know that kind of stuff.

[Philosopher]

It would seem to me that if it were done in a proper clinical / professional environment, an experienced / attractive lady could make $$$ and be doing a huge social service by providing all these desperate guys with a GF experience. I mean seriously like training. I guess the legal issues and risks of many of the guys being creeps makes it impractical. But what a priceless service that would be in a perfect world...

 

There are already some female sexual surrogates who do provide therapy and training on the sex side of relationships to inexperienced guys. Though I think that is as far as it goes.

[ThaWholigan]

I wanna touch on a few things that maybe some will feel aggrieved that they haven't been elaborated on as much:

 

Confidence and social skills.

 

It can be terrible advice to tell someone to "just be confident" and "just don't care about rejection". They sound so simple and profound, don't they? Well, obviously, it is not that easy and I can testify to that. I am still not completely there yet! . It will take a hell of a lot of work, but what I have been doing and still am doing is identifying the areas where I can help myself to improve the way I view myself. I do try to pass this on when I post here - most of the time it doesn't get adhered to so I doubt anybody notices when I say it - I mostly get noticed for being "uber positive" and telling people the above - which is actually false. Anyway, I'll elaborate a little.....

 

Social Skills

 

I've noticed that when this is broached, everybody likes to think that they can't be read by others or feel insulted by the idea that their social skills aren't at a certain level. Sure, not everybody is innately social on such a level. I certainly wasn't born being super social at all! . I worked hard to get to a point where I can understand very subtle nuances between people.

 

Ways I improved:

 

I did a lot of people watching when out chilling. Gestures, positioning, facial expressions, movement - every possible dynamic you can think of I started to hone in on very closely. It was difficult to do without looking like a creepy dude in the corner, but generally nobody seemed to notice me. More importantly though, I became much more aware of my own appearance and how I came across. My expressions, the way I moved, the gestures I made, my posture - I became almost obsessed with it, as is part of my personality. In a way, this had the potential to backfire simply because I was too conscious, and this in turn made me anxious. I started to look like one of those guys who was "too cool for school" that my friends used to rip on when I was in a band. That look wasn't one I could pull off too comfortably.

 

You don't have to become as obsessed as I am about it, but it might be good to pay attention to your body and how you come across, because that has a lot to do with your social status - believe it or not. When you carry stress, anxiety or other things, it can manifest in your body in some way - and that can count against you. People tend to become more magnetic to people when they are in a more comfortable setting. The trick for me was to become comfortable even when uncomfortable. You could call it faking it till I made it. I like to think I was accepting my nervous energy and working with it.

 

Exercising helps with all of that - if you have some money, you could get a check up regarding kinesiology or some type of movement specialist who could help you out with that. That's something I'm working towards. Martial Arts will definitely help there. I took a trial class in JKD - definitely going back. Improv & acting can help too. Also a good way to meet people - but you learn a LOT about how to project your voice and your body.

 

Which brings me nicely towards words. People don't understand how much importance the things you say are. They either go too far with words, or are too safe with them. One of the best things I did with my words was stop using filler words like "umm", "like..."maybe", "kinda" - and recently "just" (Scot McKay ). As in "I was just calling to find out if.....ummm...you like.... kinda wanted to maybe go check out fingy with me" or some BS like that. Vastly exaggerated but some guys really talk like that. Girls too, you do sh*t like this too .

 

Now I try to be very deliberate about what I say, so there is less ambiguity - and if I do use ambiguity, it is intentional and done with more panache than "kinda" sh*t. Listen to the words you use - especially the words you tell yourself (I will elaborate on this below). Are they expressive, or particularly intellectual in nature? Or just standard? What kind of humor do you think represents you? Myself, I have a strange kind of observational humor - I also tell stories from my past a lot. What about you? Should find that out.

 

Navigating the social circle is important. I always see AD1980 and PJKino post about the same friends all the time - and I wonder how much their perception would change if they weren't always around their same "arrogant best friend" and all the other dudes with wives who all like the same guy. I would find it a little limiting to always be in a social circle that isn't giving me something that I could get from another social circle. Finding a new one? A little difficult I suppose.....

 

Picking up new activities is a good way to build a new social circle. I tend to open with a question about whatever is going on, and I talk to both the men and the women wherever I'm at. The first time you do it will be nervewracking but you will be surprised at the good reactions one gets. You can find new bars or parties - new contacts in the weirdest places. You might not want to do so, but I would even take a course in networking - you might find it beneficial. I may even do it sometime soon. My extended network is already pretty large anyway. I have around 6 different circles right now I could move in - 4 of them music related. All of them took years to build.

Confidence:

 

Confidence is funny because nobody seems to be able to define it. The actual definition in the dictionary is "The state of feeling certain about the truth of something." Well using that definition you could say "I'm confident that I will never get laid. It's the truth and I'm certain about it :o". If that is the truth for you, then it shall come to pass.

 

My truth is different. I was confident that someday I would sort myself out and everything would eventually start to go right for me. I still am, it is the source of my optimism. So naturally even at my most anxious, my default state is one of optimism at most things. Sadly, that isn't the case for everybody. So the way I see it, building up confidence from a state of angst has it's difficulties.

 

You can't just magically be confident, but you can attempt to build confidence by exposing yourself to situations that require you to experience growth. Once you start to grow at whatever the scenario you are facing is, the more confident you will become. But you still need to have a base level of self-assurance going into whatever it is you're doing. This is where the words that you tell yourself become important. Some people here think I'm a tad delusional because I kept telling myself everyday that I would succeed at the things I wasn't succeeding at i.e. telling myself I would lose my virginity even though I was a late bloomer. But it was important that the words I told myself uplifted me while remaining realistic about everything. Rather than being down about everything.

 

The other thing is learning to detach from the outcome. Now this is one area that I found easy. Being autistic, detachment usually comes with the territory. In fact, I had to teach myself to become more invested at times! . The way I would describe how I detached was simply because there were things in my mind that held more importance. For example, I could be pissed off that some girl was a bitch to me, but that would go away instantly when I played piano or watched football.

 

Ways to improve:

 

Expose yourself to different situations. It's going to be very hard, especially when occasionally you spectacularly fail - it's happened to me. But as Elliott Hulse of Strength Camp fame says, "IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE F*CKING HARD!!!" The difficulty, the "struggle" if you will, is supposed to make you stronger (INB4 someone makes a "starving kids in Africa" reference). The areas where you face the most difficulty is the place where you must undergo the most growth - this is what I've found. I have had difficulties all over the joint and as a result I've had a lot of growing to do - and I'm not done!

 

My growth has come from facing my difficulties and problems. You must do the same. And I wouldn't say to completely detach from the outcome of whatever happens - but keep a balanced view of everything and see the positive side as well as the negative. Meditation is good for this. Watch your thoughts as they pass through your head, and soon you will stop thinking them and you can begin to control the thoughts in your head. Easier said than done, but not impossible. You will start to view things in your head objectively rather than emotionally invested in your own pain.

 

 

I hope that all of that sh*t I just typed helped - it was a lot! Hopefully I have more for this thread another time.

[davyvfr]

Well I want to date, I'm just not willing to undergo the short term pain that's required for long term gain.

 

It's not like working out which has a similar formula (short term pain long term gain) because at least when you go to them gym you can release endorphins that make you feel good. Going up to some girl and talking to her knowing she's probably secretly laughing at you or totally repulsed by you isn't at all the same.

 

So, instead of whining about how the world isn't fair or whatever, do something fun. You'll still die a virgin, but, "if you got to go, go with a smile"...

 

Yes, go follow your goals while your single, its much harder when you are married or in a serious relationship.

[TouchedByViolet]

Yes, go follow your goals while your single, its much harder when you are married or in a serious relationship.

 

Then you are in the wrong type of relationship.

[hppr]

Dressing, grooming, figuring out a look that 'works for you' does wonders. Same for colognes. I get tons of compliments about the colognes I wear from women, usually older ladies and girls who are 18-22 (they seem to be bolder on average than women who are around my age, ~30).

 

I think a lot of guys (myself included) who get the kill-it-with-fire reaction from women when they try to flirt with them have this problem going on.

[Mr_Flay]

Would you like some cheese to go with your whine?

 

There's plenty of cheese in this thread already. An unfair pun, but I couldn't resist.

 

Six months ago I went the "lots of hobbies" route. I learned languages, dancing, a martial art, cooking, permaculture techniques, and went mountain hiking with strangers. I've had fun and it's all been very useful, but struggling guys should know that taking up a hobby is no guarantee that your social and/or dating life will improve. Maybe it will, and maybe you will just become a very busy incel. Either way, it's worth trying. Currently I've got hobbies for six out of seven days of the week. I must admit I miss quiet evenings when I could relax in front of my computer, but the thought of improving myself is even better.

 

No dates yet, but at least I'm having fun. That's all that matters, right? Just don't go into it thinking it'll get you a girl. Most likely it won't. It will only improve your chances by a little; you'll at least have access to a wider circle of people.

[spiderowl]

-Make sure you smell nice and are reasonably well groomed

 

- Don't be too intense, be casual, friendly and warm and take opportunities to meet (stalking, grim staring, texting every five minutes, asking questions about her movements are out!)

 

- Have good manners - say please, thank you, get her a chair, offer a drink, open doors, generally show you have been brought up well

 

- Avoid crude or annoying jokes. Funny is nice, but someone who twists everything into a joke is shooting themselves in the foot

 

- Treat women as people, as equals, deserving of respect. If you are the kind of guy who has stereotypes (like, there are nice girls and sluts), this attitude will come across and women will avoid you

 

- Take chance to ask out but don't do it too quickly or be intense about it or that is immediately offputting. Be casual about it, but interested. A woman then feels she has a choice and does not feel pressured. Any pressure is counter-productive.

[Pompeii]

I just made a thread on this. You need to be aesthetic and you need to not care about anything.

 

- Treat women as people, as equals, deserving of respect. If you are the kind of guy who has stereotypes (like, there are nice girls and sluts), this attitude will come across and women will avoid you

 

This advice has been overplayed and is a non-factor. It does not matter what you internally think about women. It's been proven time and time again the men who have the most success with women are the ones who look at them as no more than slabs of meat on a market stall. I don't know what you mean by "nice girls and sluts". "Sluts" can be "nice girls". However, that still doesn't change the fact that some girls are more relationship-oriented than others. If you want that, don't go for the girls who sleep around. I do agree that the madonna-whore complex can be quite damaging to the male psyche.

 

Still, I take issue with this advice because it seems to come from a place of self-interest rather than a place of genuine advice. Of course, hygiene and not being socially retarded are obvious prerequisites to any type of dating.

 

I'm not saying to be a misogynist, I'm just saying that one's mindset towards women does not necessarily help or hurt them when it comes to the dating game, as long as their thoughts are not verbalized.

 

So it really depends. Not everyone is going to pair off. You can either tie yourself in knots over it or deal with it...

 

I've said this quite a bit. Not everyone will get to mate. For some reason that sounds like an excruciating factor to deal with.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Pompeii

[Nistan]

1. Be sexual

Do you picture yourself having sex with the women you like to meet?

Do you express yourself sexually?

Many strugling guys seem to have this in common.They cant express themselves sexually.

Many guys believe that this sexual tension building is a 50/50 responsibility between the sexes. So they wait for the woman to help him out in this department. This won't happen. It's on you all the way. There are alot of reasons why this is. Alot of people will talk about slut shaming, but I have honestly seen more demonization of male sexuallity. We men basically need to be some super mind readers and know beforehand if she is interested or else we are creeps. The real reason women won't do their share is because being sexual is being vulnerable. And just like anybody if they don't need to be vulnerable they will avoid it. It's weakness of character basically.

exercise:

See a woman you find attractive on the street and picture her having an orgasm from you. Don't stare or gawk. just do a one over of her body. And look away. If you catch her eye, wink or smile.

Train doing this. Train being a sexual creature.

 

2. Prioritize right

Guys that have relationship problems get alot of **** and stress from second doubthing themselvesn all the time. That is because there is a incorrect perception about why people don't get dates. That leads us to look for imperfections instead of focusing on the real issue: you not getting dates. Dating and romance is a skill almost completely decoupled with anything else. Ive seen some of the most boring and akward guys get much more dates and sex then the hot, caring , intelligent guy. All because the boring guy just knew what to do.

 

My advice here is to stop looking at yourself all the time. You are probably average. That doesn't mater in the long run. So, stop reading that self help book.

 

3. Be bored

Yes, I'm serious.

Look, If you get good at this you will become bored. I've seen it all the time. You know why? Because you are the one that have to have a personality when courting. Let's be frank here most women wont put much effort into presenting themelves as interesting. There is an underlying assumption that TnA is enough for most guys.

Or, they have the incorrect notion of that the man should "like me for who I am". The problem with that notion is that it leaves alot of women to just do things always and be passive.

That leads to men being interested in the begining and quickly get bored.

Cut of the middleman and be bored from the start. Wake her up and make her realize that she have to do some work as well. This is super important if you want a longterm relationship.

[Hazzard]

To be honest while most of this advice is sound, guys like me are just genetic failures and no amount of 'improvement' is going to help.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Hazzard