Male Sex Drive & Female Sexual Ambivalence

[flavius]

I want to raise an important but complex subject. I'm especially interested in responses of married people, not those who reject marriage. Consider this:

 

There is a couple, best friends of my wife and me. She complains that she gets no sexual attention. She also says she has grown indifferent to sex, and really doesn't care if she ever has sex again. She regularly rebuffs his advances because she resents his neglect, and he neglects her because he resents her continual rejection.

 

Somehow they seem to present a caricature of Bad Love. Exaggerated, but in a way typical. She has near zero libido. She weaponizes his libido to punish him. She wants intimacy but witholds sex, knowing that he is morally bound to her. Does she sound evil? ACTUALLY SHE IS A VERY NICE GIRL, and she feels like he is almost entirely at fault (he likes basketball more than her, etc, etc, etc.) Oddly, he is prudish and she is not.

 

But how typical is this pattern? Well, consider this. Dozens of academic studies report that about 2/3 of wives say they do not get enough sex. Strangely, they also reveal that about 2/3 of wives complain that their partner wants sex too much! Notice something? The math makes no sense!

 

In rough terms, that is about a third of all women living in total contradiction about sex. Although they say they like the idea of sex, (a) they have little libido, and (b) they resent their husband's libido. Now, another third simply like sex (almost a perfect correlation with the 1/3 who regularly masturbate , and the last third logically will be women with lower libido, but who are responsive to (versus resentful of) their husbands' drive.

 

I know this is a statistical oversimplification, but the dynamic is so strong that there is definitely a truth in there: While they may not acknowledge it, MANY WOMEN APPARENTLY JUST DISLIKE THE MALE SEX DRIVE. They seem to particularly hate that our visceral drive is largely independent of social and emotional factors (e.g., that is, the fact that a woman may be a total stranger, a prostitute, a porn photo, or a 16 year old clerk doesn't nullify the drive.) Women with low libido seem to view the drive itself as a moral deficiency.

 

I guess the male sex drive is just a dark and mysterious force that many women don't comprehend. Most dig it, but women apparently just think we're icky.

 

Okay, that should get me a hatful of angry replies. But don't just try to make a name for yourself by whacking on me, enlighten me with your wisdom!

[moimeme]

I'm not going to whack you. I'll leave that to you to do for yourself.

 

She regularly rebuffs his advances because she resents his neglect, and he neglects her because he resents her continual rejection.

 

There is your answer. Men have high libidos, but a lot of them can't be bothered with all the 'work' it takes to get a woman warmed up. Unfortunately, we are not built with hair triggers. Too, and darn it if it's one link I just can't find, I did see a story on a science show that basically said that women's sex drive happens via the emotion route. But you don't need studies to figure this out. A lot of guys will want sex even if they're stressed, tired, overworked, sad, whatever. Many, many women, when feeling bad for emotional reasons, will feel it first in the lack of libido.

 

So what happens? He doesn't want to do any of the seducing or other things that will get her in the mood but just wants sex because he's got the hair trigger. She's upset because even though he knows she doesn't have the hair trigger, he still can't be bothered doing anything about it. So she feels emotionally bad because he won't make the effort to do a couple little things that would make her happy and put her in th emood, which shuts off her libido. Then he doesn't get sex so decides if he's not getting any, he's certainly not going to be cooperative or bother to try to seduce her or help her get in the mood. And so both go on downwards in a nonproductive spiral of withholding what the other wants. He says 'if you'd just have sex with me, I'd be nicer to you'. She says 'if you'd just be nicer to me, I'd have sex with you'. Both stubbornly insist the other has to give in first.

 

And the latter is the real crux of the problem. Love ceases to be about giving and turns into getting. And as long as one isn't getting, there'll be no giving. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is the road to disaster.

 

Women with low libido seem to view the drive itself as a moral deficiency.

 

I guess the male sex drive is just a dark and mysterious force that many women don't comprehend. Most dig it, but women apparently just think we're icky.

 

You're casting blame in the wrong place. It's not male sex drive that isn't appealing. It's that many males want their drives satisfied without thinking they need to really spend a lot of time on doing the same for the females. I'm positive that, were we women given charge of the design, we would not have created us to be slow to warm up and climax but we're kinda stuck with it. So to hold it against us and be impatient or unwilling to deal with that is not really to anyone's credit.

[flavius]

On the majority of all this we are in agreement, and we disagree on none (though I realize my post sounded kinda like an anti-female rant.) I'm no stranger to the "slow to warm up phenomenon", as my wife falls into the low-libido-but-truly-loves-sex category. I've learned over 20 years not to expect anything spontaneous to happen, ever (that was a bitter pill for me.) She has learned not to make faces or act inconvenienced at the suggestion that she will soon be in ecstasy. I learned not to get hurt feelings during the ramp-up period. She also had to learn not to drag old resentments into bed for settlement. In our favor she is naturally uninhibited, and I am a sappy romantic. Against the apparent odds we have grown into a pretty exceptional sex factory.

 

It is the statistical third who "don't get enough sex" but "whose husbands want sex too often" I'm wondering about. At first blush one might say it is just a matter of logistics: slow warmup + pushy husband = frustration. (Particularly if you are a woman who has felt put-upon in this way. I have not.)

 

But go back to the negative spiral of resentment and rejection that you described. There is a Chicken & Egg question to be answered, isn't there? My logic says that the process begins with the man leaving the toilet seat up or what not. The spiral begins when he initiates sex and she stiff-arms him, or she "holds her nose and just lets him do it anyway." She doesn't warm up slow -- she won't warm up at all. Each time he initiates he gets some degree of insult, but the man is going to keep coming back -- his sex drive will see to it. What drive does she have to lay aside the resentment and retribution?

[moimeme]

What drive does she have to lay aside the resentment and retribution?

 

At some point, it would be a fine plan to talk. Discuss. Talk about the toilet seat and the desire and the problem and how to fix it as a team.

[Ladyjane14]

What drive does she have to lay aside the resentment and retribution?

 

This was such a big problem in my marriage, because everything Moi posted on this thread is so true. It amazed me that a married man who prioritized sex so highly wouldn't put ANY effort into getting some. Afterall, if he divorced his wife, it's not as if willing women would be lining up at his door for no particular reason. He'd have to go out and meet some women, maybe take them out on a few dates. Possibly even have to ACT like he valued their opinion even.

 

Moreover, when a woman is balancing so many things; home, job, kids, aging parents, pregnancy, pms, you name it, her ENERGY ship is sinking. Libido really is going to be one of the first things to go overboard like so much unnecessary ballast.

 

Meanwhile, and I suspect this is universal, a man who's not getting as much sex as he needs, is a fairly grumpy, hard-to-get-along-with, angry guy. And not very appealing at that point to his mate. The more he b*tches about it, the less she wants him.

 

And it DOES in fact become the chicken and the egg, just as Flavius said.

 

What worked for me was this: the absolute EPIPHANY that it was ME that was wrong.

 

Hard pill to swallow, cause everything Moi said is true, and then some. I felt DEVALUED as a human being by the way that he prioritized sex ahead of the health of the relationship. As if the sexual function was more valuable to him than my feelings. I could run on here for a 5 pages.....

 

What I had failed to consider of course, were HIS feeling. Men are soooooooo much different in this than women, like they're not even speaking the same language as we are. This sexual rejection hurts them so keenly, I think, because their very self-image is somehow connected to thier sexual prowess. It's part of who they are at an elemental level, and inseparable from their internal identity.

 

When you reject him sexually, you reject him totally, because it's an integral part of WHO HE IS. His hurt and pain come out as anger, and the more he acts out the more rejection he suffers. Viscious cycle. And as it goes on, his self-esteem takes a brutal beating and so does his sexual performance as he worries that maybe she doesn't want him because he's not good enough to please her. Add performance anxiety, and up the ante. The communication problems get worse, and so it goes.

 

I think that it is INCUMBANT upon the man, to get his message out, in ways that his SO can understand. I just did NOT get it. My feelings were my priority, and my feelings had been hurt more times than I can count. My mistake is that even though I thought I was considering HIS feelings, I really wasn't.

 

I couldn't see WHY this was SO important to him. And he wasn't explaining, he was SHOUTING, and he was cold and really mean.

 

I can't explain how I finally did hear him, and begin to understand, but in answer to the question of 'what drives a woman to let go of the resentment', I think in the end it has to be that you love him. Simple as that. And love him enough to realign your priorities to include him in a way that makes him really know it everyday.

 

That doesn't mean that he doesn't ever have to take her feelings into consideration again, but it does break the cycle. Afterall, someone is going to have to give in here.

 

A man who can get his mate to see his side of this in a way that makes her willing to be the one to reset her priorities MUST follow through. She better see some payola buddy, in the form of a happy, romantic, willing-to-talk-and-share, lifemate. Or you're back to square one. If her needs aren't met here, and she's the one who gave in, then how could she possibly believe that it was the right thing to do, rather than the DOOR-MAT thing to do?

 

Anyway, I've had a LOT of time to mull over this very thing! Sorry for rambling.

[Matilda]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

What worked for me was this: the absolute EPIPHANY that it was ME that was wrong.

 

I agree totally with you Ladyjane. As a woman, you really do need to understand how important this aspect of the relationship is to a man. And frankly, I'd forgotten how important it was to me.

 

It's still not easy, when you have kids, and fluctuating libido due to hormones, etc. But at least now, I have it in my mind, that sex needs to be a priority.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Matilda

 

It's still not easy, when you have kids, and fluctuating libido due to hormones, etc. least now,

 

Yeah, that's a great point! And it really made me think.

 

I'm in my early 40's, so my estrogen levels are on the decline, while my natural testosterone levels are on the increase. It's a much tougher fight when you're smack in the middle of your child-bearing years.

 

I think that any guy who's not getting enough at home would do well to take a little crash course in female anatomy. (And I'm not talking about 'girls gone wild' videos ). I'm talking chemistry. There are ways to work around a woman's chemical make-up.

 

For example the few days right before ovulation, and right before menstruation are the best days to try and get some romance going. The hormone levels change during this time and significantly increases the probability that above said guy could elicit some interest.

 

Hey, for guys that aren't getting ANY, that could add up to twice a month. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

[flavius]

Ladies, yours are some very impressive writings. LJane, you should be publishing!

 

My wife and I were philosophizing on this same subject just as I sat down and read your posts.

 

Let me amen whay you said on the man's emotional response. It is almost a cliche that men separate love from sex, at least on the physical level. Women, however, can separate love from sex on the emotional level, while husbands generally cannot. The rejection men feel from a sexually indifferent spouse is absolutely crippling. All other emotional functions (except for the "Angry Shouting Gland", perhaps) break down at that point.

 

LJane14, you are a hero of love! What a daring rescue you pulled off.

 

 

 

HERE'S MY ONE GRIPE !!!

 

I wanted to hear from people who disagree with me! You three are telling me what I already believe -- I want to find another angle to help my dysfunctional friends.

 

Come on, somebody. RIP ME A NEW ONE !!!

[MassiveAtom]

Hey flav,

 

The reason for the agreement is simple. your conclusion is right.

 

Of course there will always be the excpetion that PROVES the rule. But the male sex drive IS in large part disliked by women. I've heard women talk about it as if it's some kind of disorder to be addressed in therapy. It's been called immature, silly, and crude. It's part of the difference that we all have to learn not to over analyze, part of the mystery we just have to learn to accept.

 

But figuring out what they can do about it, THAT's where the strengths of this board would truly shine.

 

Oh, and for that other thread,

 

mA

[moimeme]

But the male sex drive IS in large part disliked by women. I've heard women talk about it as if it's some kind of disorder to be addressed in therapy. It's been called immature, silly, and crude.

 

Your statement might have some chance of being accurate if you included the information that this is your limited experience. I am a woman and, while I've heard some women sometimes joke about it, I've yet to hear any woman speak about the male sex drive the way you claim you have. Maybe they were trying to send you a message.

 

LadyJane - fantastic! We have in this here thread a concise summary of problem and solution. Cut, print - send it to the media

[Ladyjane14]

<========blushing profusedly from the kind words. But I'm not feeling like a genius since it took me over a decade to figure out even THAT much. Men are the mysterious ones!!!!

 

P.S. MassiveAtom, how are things going for you?

[Matilda]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

For example the few days right before ovulation, and right before menstruation are the best days to try and get some romance going. The hormone levels change during this time and significantly increases the probability that above said guy could elicit some interest.

 

Hey, for guys that aren't getting ANY, that could add up to twice a month. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

 

My husband knows my cycle better than I do. He knows exactly when the opportunity is right. When I forget when my last period was, I ask him.

[The Wiz]

Resentment and rejection... I suffer from the later... But I definitely dont understand why she could be resentful of my sex drive?! There are lots of things that others possess that I do not but I dont resent them for it, If it is something I want then I work to achieve it in my life as well. The downward spiral/chicken and egg theory makes sense on paper but definitely doesnt apply to everyone in real life. I couldnt tell you the amount of rejection I have gone through but I still come back each day with the same optimism I did the day before. It does hurt like hell to be rejected on a regular basis with no rhyme or reason, but I have never let those feelings of rejection regarding sex effect the way I treat her emotionaly or physicaly for that matter. I still do all of the little things that would make any woman happy, leaving little notes under her pillow expressing my love, a kiss and I love you everytime I leave or come home, running her a bath after a hard day of work, making a nice dinner or taking her out on the town, I spoon her every night and give here a back or butt rub (her request) until she falls asleep and I dont let go until I kiss her good moring before I leave for work. I have explored just about all of the options that have been written here. I know her cycle and I must admit that the times things have happened have been the days just before menstration. I have lifted every burdon from her life that I could, I cook, do almost all of the cleaning, laundry, dishes, yard work, shopping etc... and we dont have kids. Heck I even planned every aspect of our wedding with the exception of the flowers and her dress. And no I an not controlling, it was just how she wanted it. Being a male I definitely agree that I have a hair trigger and can be ready to go with minimal warm up but I hope there are other males out there who also feel "wham bam thank you" is not what leaves them feeling satisfied. It is not what I am looking for from my wife. I am a firm believer of the philosophy that you get out of life what you put into it. I dont just try to go right for it, but if try to take things beyond a nice gentle kiss on the neck then the brakes get applied and I get the, "could you just hold me" response. I truely dont think that she resents my libido or that she resents the way I am treating her because I treat her the way I should treat the woman I love. So there is not a downward spiral in my case. It's more like we are just not seeing eye to eye anymore. I think it has come down to being taken for granted. I think it might be that after nine years of me proving to her my fidelity and love, that she no longer thinks she has to make love to me to keep me from straying. I think she just may truely not enjoy sex and maybe she just went along with it to make sure I was always there and now that I am always there she no longer feels the need to perform something she does not like. And what kind of person makes the one they love do something they do not like. Its like the child at the dinner table who wont eat his/her veggies because they hate them but just dont realize that veggies are good for you in the long run. "If you dont eat you peas then you can't have desert" except in this case I take the desert and eat that too. Sorry just peas for you...

[jmargel]

Originally posted by flavius

I want to raise an important but complex subject. I'm especially interested in responses of married people, not those who reject marriage. Consider this:

 

There is a couple, best friends of my wife and me. She complains that she gets no sexual attention. She also says she has grown indifferent to sex, and really doesn't care if she ever has sex again. She regularly rebuffs his advances because she resents his neglect, and he neglects her because he resents her continual rejection.

 

Somehow they seem to present a caricature of Bad Love. Exaggerated, but in a way typical. She has near zero libido. She weaponizes his libido to punish him. She wants intimacy but witholds sex, knowing that he is morally bound to her. Does she sound evil? ACTUALLY SHE IS A VERY NICE GIRL, and she feels like he is almost entirely at fault (he likes basketball more than her, etc, etc, etc.) Oddly, he is prudish and she is not.

 

In this scenerio like most others, men equate sex with their wife as a sign of being loved and being accepted. Women on the other hand equate being told they are loved and by their husband's actions as being loved and accepted.

 

When one spouse doesn't get what they need, they get defensive and sometimes will resort to withholding something the other wants because of their lack of getting what they need.

 

So it comes down to it being pretty simple. If the husband swallows his hurt and pride, and to stop dwelling on the rejection he is getting now and show how much his wife means to him. This may take a while from a few days to a few months to get what he needs from his wife, which is sex (remember men equate sex to feeling wanted). This process will help as well if the wife were to give a little as well.

[flavius]

Wiz, I read your earlier post, and I'd like to say that your situation really is NOT the one addressed in this thread. The proximity of your problem with your wedding cannot be a coincidence.

 

I am a broken record, I know (bear with me jmargel.) But this is so reminiscent of what I've seen in marriage counseling over and over.

 

I cannot know this, but I suspect that her psychosis is related to a let-down of expectations. You two lived together for what, two years? Then comes marriage.

 

Well marriage is supposed to be this big crossing over, right? Only there's no real crossing over at all, is there? The marriage was in a way reduced to just a piece of paper by two years of playing House.

 

Now I'm not saying this is driven by guilt (tho I suppose it's possble.) Maybe more of an internal day of reckoning for her, and since the whole issue of marriage is essentially sexual, she is having sexual manifestations.

 

The first rule of sex/relationship therapy is a total temporary suspension of sex. I see that has already happened. The second rule is to separate out the relationship and internal issues from their sexual manifestations. The third rule is to start the sexual relationship over from the beginning, as though you had never touched one another.

 

I think she is basically acting out what therapists prescribe, just doing it in some sort of primitive, instinctual way.

 

And yes, Wizzy, it hurts like hell, doesn't it? I am soooooo sorry for you.

 

I had a great, hot honeymoon with my virgin bride. I took her home and she cried for 2 weeks. She literally wanted to go home to Momma. Yes, I know how you feel. That was 20 years ago, and our life has been an epic love story. There is hope, Wiz, so don't despair. Just pump yourself up, smile a crooked smile, and know that you can restore her soul.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by jmargel

When one spouse doesn't get what they need, they get defensive and sometimes will resort to withholding something the other wants because of their lack of getting what they need.

 

I've never personally met another woman who had, or would admit to, withholding sex as a means of punishment. I'm sure there are some who do, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

When I was angry and resentful with my man, I was just not turned on in any way by him right then. There's just NOTHING attractive about a man who has p*ssed you off. There was nothing punitive about it. If there was, I wouldn't have bothered to put in my twice monthly lackluster performances.

 

Why would I want to do THAT with someone I DIDN"T EVEN LIKE at the moment.

 

If there's one notion that a guy can give up to improve his relationship, it's that his S/O is punishing him by withholding sex.

 

________________________________________________________________

 

I definitely dont understand why she could be resentful of my sex drive?!

 

Wiz, I don't think she is. It sounds like you two have an otherwise fabulous relationship. You need to talk to her about re-prioritizing. I think, based on what you have said that she just doesn't REALLY understand how important this is to you. You need for her to love you in an active rather than a passive way. It's soooooooo hard to explain this to a woman who is not open to it. I didn't understand it until it was almost too late. My marriage was for all intents and purposes dead before I understood it. We had taken it to the wall.

 

Maybe, for me it was seeing my husband's vulnerability. How truly hurt he was, how utterly unloved he felt.

 

Sometimes when people disagree, and they are both not getting their needs met, the best compromise is the one in which the more needy of the two is served first.

 

You know, lots of people THINK they are compromising, but how many are giving as much as they can afford to part with? If you truly understand that your man doesn't FEEL loved by you, what are you willing to do about that?

 

By the same token, if a man is allowing his woman feel devalued as a mere sexual object, then he needs to prioritize her emotional needs by reassuring her however he can.

 

Maybe the problem comes down to the woman NOT wanting to be a sexual object and feeling deeply hurt when she perceives herself in that light, and the man REALLY WANTING to be sexually objectified!! lolol

 

 

 

 

 

[

[findinmyway]

I am resentful of my Husband's (actually Ex) sex drive. We divorced three years ago and have been living together since January trying to reconcile. We have two children and I thought we could fix things because they were so worth it. And, there are many other wonderful things about our RS that should make it worth fixing. But, in the end, I resent his sex drive and his touch.

 

For me, it does go back to the chicken/egg theory. Many years ago, we fell into the spiral of taking each other for granted, not giving like we used to and we drifted apart emotionally. However, he was still able to function sexually. I would be with him, even though I didn't want to be, and I built a big resentment for his sex drive. I have since read on MarriageBuilders.com a good description of this. They refer to it as "sexual aversion". There are other things to it, but this is the best published description I have read. It is very hard to describe this whole process of how we grew apart and why I feel, or don't feel, about him sexually.

 

I decided to try mostly because of our kids. But, it was also because I still love him. I didn't like seeing him with anyone else and he is a very attractive man. So, it was even more confusing when we would try to be together intimately and I couldn't respond. I admired him in many ways, but when he would touch me or kiss me I almost felt sick. And, even after 10 months of living together and really trying, it is the same.

 

I don't remember particularly not liking the male sex drive when we were first married, when it was a situation of give and take, not just take. I think some women do have a tendency to just dislike it...perhaps from environmental conditions while growing up. Perhaps their parents had an unhealthy RS, and thus their mother had a unhealthy attitude toward sex. My resentment, on the other hand, has grown as a result of RS conditions.

 

My issue is this. As we have all read, LadyJane is an inspiration. She was able to acknowledge her own shortcomings in the midst of the blame game and chicken/egg theory. Even though her H didn't deserve it, as he was neglecting her due to his own needs not being met.....she was able to give him more than he deserved. That broke the chicken/egg cycle and they have begun to give to each other again. I don't think I can do that. I understand now why my Husband treated me like he did. I understand the male libido better. I understand what he needs to function as a loving spouse. But, I still can't make myself rise above and do what LadyJane did. My libido is crushed for him and I cannot figure out how to overcome the resentment I have built up for him.

 

This, in some way relates to the original question here. Do women resent a male's sex drive? Yes. But, for many different reasons. Can we overcome the resentment? Yes. And no. I think it depends on how far gone you are.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

I've never personally met another woman who had, or would admit to, withholding sex as a means of punishment. I'm sure there are some who do, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

When I was angry and resentful with my man, I was just not turned on in any way by him right then. There's just NOTHING attractive about a man who has p*ssed you off. There was nothing punitive about it. If there was, I wouldn't have bothered to put in my twice monthly lackluster performances.

 

Why would I want to do THAT with someone I DIDN"T EVEN LIKE at the moment.

 

If there's one notion that a guy can give up to improve his relationship, it's that his S/O is punishing him by withholding sex.

 

________________________________________________________________

 

[

 

Re-read my post. When did I say it was a means of punishment?

 

Like you said you get turned off when he doesn't meet your needs, which then he gets upset/rejected by the lack of sex, so he witholds things from you. It's a vicious circle. Read my link in my signature, it might help.

[Ladyjane14]

Girl, you've been hanging in there for an awful long time. I think you've tried all you could. He's put an inordinate amount of sexual pressure on you. I'm still not forgetting your thread about forcing sex. It's no wonder that you've got these emotional issues with it. (A lot of women would have dented his head over that whole "submit to your husband routine"!!!! )

 

Give yourself permission to move on with your life if you need to. I know you said you love him, but is it romantic love for the person that he is today, or is it the ghost of love - your memories of happier times? Only you know that.

 

It's not enough for YOU to do all the changing. It has to be mutual. That's why the resentment can't be laid aside. I know you made some mistakes, but if the slate can't be cleaned for BOTH of you, then you ARE submitting. How can you be anything other than resentful dealing with the issues from a state of submission?

 

You're very brave, and you've fought a valiant fight, but if he's not willing to change WITH you, then what else is left?

 

Whatever you decide to do, we're here for ya!

[Ladyjane14]

Didn't mean to offend. I assumed from the following part of your post that you meant "resort to withholding" as a deliberate act, rather that one that was not premeditated.

 

Originally posted by jmargel

When one spouse doesn't get what they need, they get defensive and sometimes will resort to withholding something the other wants because of their lack of getting what they need.

[findinmyway]

Whatever you decide to do, we're here for ya!

 

I don't want to take away from flavius' thread and I think he wants a debate here

 

But, I HAVE to say thank you LJ. You, and a few others, have helped me so much through this.

 

Now, to add to flavius' thread.....LJ--you mentioned that he isn't willing to change and that's why I hold on to the resentment. In his defense, he really is making an effort now. That's what's so confusing. Even with his sincerity, I can't get over things. I think it's just too late. I resent his sex drive, largely because of how he has handled that area of our RS.

[sumdude]

What I had failed to consider of course, were HIS feeling. Men are soooooooo much different in this than women, like they're not even speaking the same language as we are. This sexual rejection hurts them so keenly, I think, because their very self-image is somehow connected to thier sexual prowess. It's part of who they are at an elemental level, and inseparable from their internal identity..... When you reject him sexually, you reject him totally, because it's an integral part of WHO HE IS.

 

This needs to be printed on every marriage license as well as the reverse counterpart for women.

 

I remeber when my SO and I met we were very hot and heavy. Then once it slipped that she would have me 'trained' to keep my libido in check or something to that effect.

 

Just yesterday a very old freind and I were talking about our SOs. He's been with his wife for 7 yrs married 5. I've been with my SO for 5 1/2 years. We talked about how during the first year or two sex was amazing, frequent and our SOs seemed always interested. Sure newness fades things change. we joked at how the rules changed. We as men are asked to 'do the work'nto get the ladies in the mood. I consider myself and this freind to both be rather romantic types. I am always willing to go the extra mile. But here's where we both laughed and what confuses us men sooo much.

 

(Man In a frustrated voice)

 

Ladies. Why oh why is it this way? It pleased you before why is it not pleasing you now? It worked the last time I tried it. Who rewrote the rules? I thought you liked (insert item/entertainment here)? huhnh? That's not what you said last time.

 

And the most annoying phrase of all time from you wife/SO

 

"Well I GAVE you sex last week."

 

As if it's not a shared experience and we didn't both get off.

 

Tell me that women don't sometimes view sex as a commodity? We men end up heaped in with the dog and kids. "Finish your homework and you can have ice cream." "Good doggy, you get a bone." And when we men somehow solve the Rubik's cube of female libido in a relationship we get our treat too.

 

One of the funniest one liners I've heard. Don't remember the comic.

 

"Oh yeah women definitly have a sixth sense........They know whether or not YOU'RE gettin laid tonight."

 

 

Inevitably men don't want the woman they met to change and the women always change.

Women want the men to change and inevitably the men don't change or at least 'not enough'.

[findinmyway]

Tell me that women don't sometimes view sex as a commodity?

 

Yes, we do, if it's an unhealthy RS. Which most of the time means BOTH partners are at fault.

[girlnextdoor]

lol... I think I'm the only woman in the world who does all the initiating, the tackling, the i want to do you now bit...

 

Him? He gets it alot but only because I initiate it. I don't know, maybe he's so afraid of rejection he'ld rather not bother (he should know by now, after almost 5 years of marriage, that wont be the case, it never has been)

 

I work hard watching my kid, taking care of the house, supporting my mother who lives with us, making sure bills get sent off on time, buying the groceries, pms, periods, dry spells, woman stuff, planning for retirement and I do it all alone 20 days out of the month. He works out of town 5-10 days at a time, home 2-4 days. He comes home and I tackle him. No romancing, no warming up, but he gets great sex anyways cause if he doesn't get it neither do I (obviously).

 

He doesn't complain or whin for sex.... he doesn't get the chance.

 

He has a hair trigger like every other man on this earth he just waits for me to pull it.

 

There is no emotional downs... lol.. the best time to have sex is when you're down, it brings you back up. Like a natural high.

 

Sex is the way we get over an argument or an indifference, even if it's an argument over the phone we end up having great phone sex.

 

Sex isnt just sex though, don't get me wrong. Sex is what keeps us close, we are bestfriends, he is my world, and he comes home to me cause he knows I love him and will treat him like a king. If only he'ld get it in his head that he can do the initiating, or maybe he just enjoys being able to just sit back and let me come to him. I guess I don't mind. I live to please him, I luv to please him, I can't imagine our marriage would be as great otherwise.

 

To see that look on his face... so much pleasure it almost hurts... you know... that is what I live for.

 

It's sad that more woman don't get over this whole emotional down thing, I don't get it, I mean if the two/thirds of women who want it but don't have libido would just do it anyways with love for their hubbies, maybe they'ld see somthing. I mean if you're dry use some lub.

 

But guys too. Guys need to cherish their wives and show a little interest into their lives. Stop watching football, whining about no sex, and b****ing when you don't get any and take a look at your woman. You'll get a whole lot more that way. I know it may not seem like we want you around but if we really didn't we'ld leave.

 

Sex should be a prioity, you can not get closer to the one you love than having sex with him.

 

It is a two way street, I know, but sometimes you have to be willing to give everything without expecting anything in return.

 

And for all those people who are in that never ending cycle of if i can't have it neither can you, well if you wont give it you can never expect to get it back... I know that sounds so cliche... but you have to give something to get something back.

 

You reap what you sew... what goes around comes around... well you know what i'm getting at...

 

anyways... just my 2 cents...

[magda]

Dozens of academic studies report that about 2/3 of wives say they do not get enough sex. Strangely, they also reveal that about 2/3 of wives complain that their partner wants sex too much! Notice something? The math makes no sense!

 

It seems to me that the math may actually add up, if you take "getting sex" to mean actually reaching orgasm.

While about 85 to 90 percent of women are capable of having an orgasm, according to Beverly Whipple, Ph.D., vice president of the World Association for Sexology, only about one-third have had one during intercourse.

As discussed, because women take more time and effort, their orgasm often takes the back-seat during sex. About 65% of women cannot and do not orgasm from vaginal stimulation alone (regular sexual intercouse), and require clitoral stimulation to reach the O. And because an emotional connection is so important to a womans arrousal, that must also be in order - in addition to the time and effort - for her to cum. Considering this, if a woman has sex frequently for her husbands pleasure without achieving orgasm herself (rather than just her pleasure of giving).. it might cross her mind that her husband gets quite a bit "too much" sex, relatively, and make her frustrated.