loveregardless Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 when I said "they" "changed" the name...I meant "they" Aislinger and the government officials against the plant, began to call it by its hispanic name "marijuana" as apposed to "hemp" which it had been called in english. Another tactic to confuse people. Even though nowadays we have come to refer to hemp as the plant itself and marijuana as the flowering tops specifically, that is not the original definition. And bronze I wasn't trying to argue, I was inspired to clarify the specific reasons was all. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by Bronzepen Most laws that curtail our liberties stem from parents that have had a tragedy of losing a son or daughter. Hmm. Provide examples? It's my opinion that most civil-liberty curtailing laws stem from fear. Antiterrorism laws, reefer madness, etc., A couple of kids die from some drug. Parents complain to their congresperson and/or senator. Politicians lump all the "bad" drugs into one bill and voila, drugs are illegal. What about the FDA? I think you're simplifying. I don't like wearing seatbelts and like your statement. Why can't I decide if I want to take a chance and not hurt myself in a car crash? Answer- Too many kids die in car crashes. Parents believe that child could have survived if the law told them they should have buckled their kids in. Doesn't make sense but that is how our society thinks. Right, but we're talking about damaging brain cells, not wasting hospitals with our bleeding accident victims. Link to post Share on other sites
Bronzepen Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by loveregardless And bronze I wasn't trying to argue, I was inspired to clarify the specific reasons was all. No argument here neither. We just clarified our statements. Link to post Share on other sites
Bronzepen Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Hmm. Provide examples? Seat belt laws, age limit laws, bicycle helmit laws, motorcycle helmet laws (most states), Laws created or at least supported by MADD (such as bar owner being responsible for letting an intoxicated person drive), Cell phone use while driving (few states) not sure if it came about cause of concerned parents. It's my opinion that most civil-liberty curtailing laws stem from fear. Antiterrorism laws, reefer madness, etc., Agree, but I think there are more civil-liberty curtailing laws from concerned parents then fear. Although the tide will or maybe it has changed post 911. Your probably right. What about the FDA? I think you're simplifying. Ha but of course I am simplifying. But remember that FDA's function is to regulate, inspect and approve new or existing drugs provided the drugs fall under existing GMP laws. But if the general public (such as parents) say there is no beneficial or medicinal value to a certain drugs the politicians will pass a law that will ban the drug and the FDA will have to follow that law. After that, any drug that is outside the law falls under the ATF. Right, but we're talking about damaging brain cells, not wasting hospitals with our bleeding accident victims. Hospitals get filled up alot with people close to OD'ing or patients tripping out. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hospitals get filled up alot with people close to OD'ing or patients tripping out. But never from marijuana. Link to post Share on other sites
Bronzepen Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by loveregardless But never from marijuana. Of course. They can't goto the hospital, everyone is too busy sleeping. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I sort of meant too busy not having to go to the hospital in the first place but your explanation is funnier. Link to post Share on other sites
Stone Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Can't we all just smoke a bong... opps I mean get along Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Stoney don't tell everyone your drunk. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by cateinaus Ever heard of drug induced mental illnesses? It happens! Sorry, I did my undergrad internship in a forensic mental hospital for violent male criminals in Florida. Part of the treatment plans included drug and alcohol education for the residents. Many had severe mental illnesses ranging from personality disorders to bipolar mood disorder to schizophrenia. Part of what we taught was that drugs did not cause anyone to "go insane" - it can exacerbate an existing mental illness. Link to post Share on other sites
Strike3 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Well I don't think that either substance is "good" for you, but there are a couple of things that I would like to say on this subject. IMO, marijuana is not nearly as bad as alcohol. Sure if marijuana is abused and used all day everyday it is going to cause problems, but most don't use it like that. It irritates me that during a commercial break you can see three beer commercials persuading us how great beer is, then you'll see a marijuana commercial saying how pot will destroy your life. People buy into what the media tells us, so by default most think that marijuana is a horrible drug. I have quite a bit of personal experience with these two substances. First of all I do drink and used to smoke a few times a week. The reason I quit smoking was not because it had any effect on me but because I am in the process of trying to get a job that requires a drug test. This is my 9th semester in school, and in the previous 8 there was only one semester that I didn't get a 3.00, in fact I didn't even get a 2.5 that semester. Ironically that was the only semester that I didn't smoke regularly. I'm not saying that pot makes me smarter, but it obviously doesn't have a negative effect on me. The first semester of my junior year I changed schools and moved in with two guys that I didn't know. Well it turned out that one of them was a alcoholic and the other a pot head. We will call the alcoholic Nate and the pot head Jim. Nate drank about a case of beer a night. Nate and I played on the same college ball team and he was by far the best ball player that I had ever seen in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that if he didn't drink and had his head on straight that he would have been drafted and made it to the big show someday. Well because of alcohol, Nate failed all his classes, ended up becoming ineligible, got two DWI's, wrecked his car, lost his fiancee, lost many friends, lied profusely to everyone, urinated in his bed every night, and racked up thousands of dollars in credit card debt. On the other had, Jim smoked everyday, usually more than once. He has a college degree, played two sports and received our schools highest honor, never once missed a day of work while I lived with him, is a good friend that doesn't lie to my face, and has a good girlfriend. Now while he admits that marijuana is not good for him, he shows through his life accomplishments that is doesn't have that negative of an effect on him. I think I read somewhere that 5% of the people in this country are alcoholics, and to me that is an insane number. People need to wake up and think for themselves instead of believing the stupid commercials that the media shows us all the time. I still drink, but I do it in a responsible manner and only do it about once a week. If you aren't stupid about it then you can have a good time with it. I haven't smoked for 2 months and had absolutely no problem stopping after smoking 2-3 times a week for over three years, with only a break of a few months after the first year. Link to post Share on other sites
honey2005 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 How can you compare the choice to smoke marijuana or not to that of making a moral or ethical decision about something. My morals are my own. One of which is not to put harmful drugs into my body. I think it's ridiculous for an 18 year old girl to look down upon someone who likes to unwind at the end of a long-a$$ crappy workday by smoking a joint instead of having a couple beers. I never said I looked down on anyone, I just said I thought it was wrong. I'm allowed to think something is wrong. Also, I never said I thought drinking was a good thing either, if you'd look at my earlier posts you'd see that I said I thought both were awful. There are other ways to unwind after a hard day than just smoking pot or drinking, but, like I just said, I don't look down on anyone. Oh, and legality and morality are mutually exclusive ideas. Can there be morality without law? Can you break the law and still be moral? Well, that's obviously a resounding "yes". I never put legality and morality together. I said I thought it was bad to do because it is illegal AND because to me it is immoral. Your individual ideas on morality are just that - individual. Yeah, that's what I said. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 you can't die from smoking too much pot. you can, however, die from drinking too much alcohol. that's all the info I need. also, one of the most dramatic cases of a psychotic break that I witnessed was brought on by alcohol. guy drank a fifth of vodka, flipped, stabbed his mom 17 times, abducted her roommate at knifepoint, then forced roommate to drive him and his mom's body to the beach. the truth is stranger than ficiton. he spent the next 16 months rocking underneath a blanket. reverted back to a child state. Link to post Share on other sites
honey2005 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 you can't die from smoking too much pot. You can get lung cancer if you smoke it. I know you can get cancer from smoking anything, I'm just pointing out that you CAN die from smoking too much. Link to post Share on other sites
Stone Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 yes you can also get cancer from the sun doesn't mean I won't go outside Link to post Share on other sites
emra Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I have smoked pot I have drank I have used some other drugs. Which is worse. I don't say one is worse then the other. What is comes down to in todays world is this. If you have children, you use you get caught you lose your children. You drink too much and get turned in you lose your children. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by Bronzepen Seat belt laws, age limit laws, bicycle helmit laws, motorcycle helmet laws (most states), Laws created or at least supported by MADD (such as bar owner being responsible for letting an intoxicated person drive), Cell phone use while driving (few states) not sure if it came about cause of concerned parents. Those all came from concerned parents? Agree, but I think there are more civil-liberty curtailing laws from concerned parents then fear. Although the tide will or maybe it has changed post 911. Your probably right. Counterterrorism laws have curtailed civil liberties before 9/11, it just wasn't trendy to care. Look up Elaine Cassel, she wrote a great book about that. But if the general public (such as parents) say there is no beneficial or medicinal value to a certain drugs the politicians will pass a law that will ban the drug and the FDA will have to follow that law. Right, but does marijuana deserve to be a Schedule I substance? Moving on I never put legality and morality together. I said I thought it was bad to do because it is illegal AND because to me it is immoral. "Bad" is a moral judgement. Saying that it's immoral (bad) because it's immoral doesn't make sense, and saying it's bad because it's illegal doesn't either. My morals are my own. One of which is not to put harmful drugs into my body Caffeine is a drug. It's not good for you. Do you drink Coke? Coffee? The moral lines are blurred by arbitrary maxims. You can get lung cancer if you smoke it. I know you can get cancer from smoking anything, I'm just pointing out that you CAN die from smoking too much. It's fine if you think pot is too dangerous for you. I support making informed choices. However, seeing as how it's less carcinogenic than sunlight, I don't see how you could still advocate it being illegal. Link to post Share on other sites
honey2005 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 However, seeing as how it's less carcinogenic than sunlight, I don't see how you could still advocate it being illegal. Funny thing is I can't go out in the sun much because it makes me itch . Bad" is a moral judgement. Saying that it's immoral (bad) because it's immoral doesn't make sense, and saying it's bad because it's illegal doesn't either. Saying it's wrong for me to do because it's against my morals does make sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by honey2005 You can get lung cancer if you smoke it. I know you can get cancer from smoking anything, I'm just pointing out that you CAN die from smoking too much. Let me clarify. You can die from drinking too much alcohol in one night. Alcohol poisoning. You can't die from smoking too much pot in one night. Unless you have some new, bizarre, amaing metastasizing cancer that kills in 24 hours. I've had cancer, I know. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by honey2005 Funny thing is I can't go out in the sun much because it makes me itch . That's not funny at all, skin cancer is, unlike reefer madness, serious. Saying it's wrong for me to do because it's against my morals does make sense to me. There's a difference between having personal morality (noble) and legislating it (detestable). Link to post Share on other sites
lexnmike4enomore Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 POT.......ALCOHOL......WHO CARES!!!!!!!! Have Fun.....smoke a blunt.....drink a beer and stop your bitching Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 First of all, honey, you didn't answer the question about whether or not your drank/ate anything with caffiene in it. Do you? Do you take over the counter medications? Cough syrup? Antihistamines? Do you ingest sugar in any form? You have a cat right? Does your cat have anything with catnip in it? If so then you are giving your cat a drug did you know that? Do you use nutmeg in your cooking? Are you aware that nutmeg can produce psychotropic effects with as little as 5 grams? Moving on....otter I know we had a squabble yesterday but I just wanted to say thankyou for sharing your expertise with us here. You certainly would know better than any of us the reality of drug induced psychosis. It is very helpful to have real facts about the situation rather than just our speculation. Umm....thats about it. Good morning everyone, JEEZE Dyer your a baby!! Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I'm going to adjudicate this matter. Smoking a little bit of pot is worse than having one or two drinks Drinking a lot is much worse than potting a lot. The end! Okay, we can go back to surfing porn now. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thats just not true at all. It may have a hint of sarcasm riding its tail feathers...but its still not true. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thing is, your whole position is fundamentally moralistic, and that's why I reject it out of hand. Link to post Share on other sites
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