Protein Questions

[Mr Scorpio]

1. It seems that 1g per pound of bodyweight is the accepted minimum for muscle growth. Is this the case? I am working out a diet plan to reach the 1-per goal (which is 160g for me). However, if I have a few days/weeks where I average, say, 120g, am I simply throwing away money and spinning my tires, or will I grow at a slower rate?

 

2. Do you say "ta hell with it" in regard to the mercury in tuna/chloesterol in eggs/fat in 2% milk? Is it harmful for my body to consume these foods six days a week?

 

3. What are the cheapest sources of protein? I'm getting a powder that is $0.77 per serving, and I've found that canned chicken/tuna, and eggs are fairly cheap sources. I can't afford to purchase red meat on a regular basis, or fatty fish at all. Ideas?

[amaysngrace]

Power bars, pea protein powder and Greek yogurt.

 

Eggs are fine to eat on a daily basis but just like one and that's not really a great source of protein but it is good for your blood.

[tman666]

1. It seems that 1g per pound of bodyweight is the accepted minimum for muscle growth. Is this the case? I am working out a diet plan to reach the 1-per goal (which is 160g for me). However, if I have a few days/weeks where I average, say, 120g, am I simply throwing away money and spinning my tires, or will I grow at a slower rate?

 

I'll refrain from trying to sound like I'm intimately familiar with the science, but I believe that the there is a fairly well established threshold for achieving positive nitrogen balance and facilitating repair of damage caused by training. I want to say I heard that this was about 0.75 (pleeeease don't quote me on that, haha) grams per lb of lbm/day.

 

The suggestion of 1 gram per pound of lbm/day is a conservative figure, and should *in theory* be sufficient for muscle growth and repair. That said, if you go lower (0.8 per lb lbm/day, for example), I doubt you'd be really spinning your wheels PROVIDED that you're also in an overall caloric surplus. The thing is, individual results and needs will vary depending on a lot of factors (your genetics, your training, the rest of your diet, etc.), so you might need to experiment a little.

 

On the other hand, if you look at the diets of a lot of pro-level bodybuilders, they're up around 350-400 grams of protein per day. While I think this is ludicrous, I'm also not a pro-level bodybuilder... So yeah...

 

 

2. Do you say "ta hell with it" in regard to the mercury in tuna/chloesterol in eggs/fat in 2% milk? Is it harmful for my body to consume these foods six days a week?

 

Again, I'm not going to act like I know so much of "why exactly scientifically" you don't need to worry too much, but out of all of the three things you've listed, I would be most concerned with mercury levels in fish. Even so, you'd have to eat a LOT of canned tuna to really even start to worry that much (beyond the amount that most normal people would eat). If you limit your consumption to chunk lite tuna (vs. albacore) and to one or two cans per day, I would think that you'd be fine.

 

As far as cholesterol in eggs-the myth that the cholesterol in eggs contributes to heart disease has been essentially debunked a long time ago-I'm not sure why this misconception still exists.

 

I've been eating copious amounts of whole eggs for many years now, and my blood lipid panel is excellent.

 

Animal fats, such as those found in dairy, meat, butter, etc. are good in reasonable amounts, and can actually help improve hormonal profiles (read: testosterone). While decidedly non-scientific, I think this article gives a pretty decent breakdown of why you should include some saturated fats in your diet: T NATION | The Truth About Saturated Fat

 

Trans fats and vegetable oils (hydrogenated oils) are the ones you want to avoid.

 

3. What are the cheapest sources of protein? I'm getting a powder that is $0.77 per serving, and I've found that canned chicken/tuna, and eggs are fairly cheap sources. I can't afford to purchase red meat on a regular basis, or fatty fish at all. Ideas?

 

I find that chicken/eggs/whey protein to be close to the cheapest sources available. Pork tends to be moderately priced. Sometimes I can find fairly cheap fish. Beef is usually the most expensive.

 

Obviously, prices will fluctuate depending on location. I think that pure whey protein tends to be a fairly cheap way to supplement protein intake. Of course, you still want to be getting most of your protein from "real" food sources, but whey can help immensely if you're trying to fill a 40 gram deficit.

 

As with all of this stuff, the ends basically justify the means. I think a lot of people get too wrapped up in the numbers game part of it, and forget that at the core of it, they just need to 1) set a goal and then 2) find their own way to reach it. If you're getting stronger, not getting too fat, and having to buy progressively larger shirts, it means you're doing "it" right.

Edited June 13, 2013 by tman666

[Sunshinegrl]

here's the cheap way I get it.

 

1 whole egg and 3 whites (scrambled) in mornings: 19 grams (4 each for the whites and 7 each for the whole egg). It took a long time for me to get used to the idea of throwing out perfectly good yolks but I didn't want the fat!

 

1 scoop protein powder in 1/2 cup 2% milk and 1/2 cup water: 28 grams

 

2 servings greek yogurt each day: 36 grams

 

2 4 oz servings of grilled skinless chicken breast: 48 grams

 

That's 131 grams for me. It's fairly easy and cheap. And don't forget incidental grams of protein in things like wheat bread and peanut butter.

[thefooloftheyear]

I get my protein from mostly eggs, fish and lean red meat..I consume a fair amount of red meat daily, yet my cholesterol levels fall right in line with ideal.

 

That being said, I have made gaiins whether my diet was ideal or not, it was just the quantity that was vital...I think some of this is overkill.

 

I have seen guys make huge gains eating junk foods ..Muscle building is also tied to genetics. Not that anyone couldnt improve what they have, but at the end of the day, you will be limited by your genetics I dont care what you do.

 

TFY

[chuzzbug]

Also consider the rate of absorption/digestion of the protein. Here's some information about casein, where it is compare to whey.

 

Bodybuilding.com - The Case For Casein: Your Expert Guide To The Protein With Staying Power

 

Don't forget that protein and essential amino acids are only part of the equation. If you want to build muscle, or in general add mass to your body, you need a caloric surplus. In other words, you need energy to not only fuel your daily metabolic requirements, but also to fuel your efforts in the gym and still have enough left over to build tissue.

 

In other words, make sure you're getting enough carbs and fats. I suggest limiting carb intake to mornings and before (2h) and after (15-30 min) workout.

 

Ultimately, eat as much as you need to in order to feel strong and ready for your workouts. Your muscles should feel "full" and ready for work.

[Harradin]

1. It seems that 1g per pound of bodyweight is the accepted minimum for muscle growth. Is this the case? I am working out a diet plan to reach the 1-per goal (which is 160g for me). However, if I have a few days/weeks where I average, say, 120g, am I simply throwing away money and spinning my tires, or will I grow at a slower rate?

 

Not sure of my weight now but when I was 185lbs I was eating 185lbs of protein, my protein shakes were 40g each, I had 2 on rest days and 3 on workout days. Had 2 eggs, 2 bacon rashers in the morning, chicken breast/pasta for dinner, I had ridiculous amounts of protein. Per week I did 2 hours judo, 4 hours kickboxing, 30 mins chest/abs workout and 2 hours 15 minutes of inclined running so mostly cardio based. I gained so much muscle it was insane, when I didn't have as much protein I lost weight and didn't gain as much muscle. I don't know whether that was my build or not but it seemed to be the case for me!

[Mr Scorpio]

I'll refrain from trying to sound like I'm intimately familiar with the science, but I believe that the there is a fairly well established threshold for achieving positive nitrogen balance and facilitating repair of damage caused by training. I want to say I heard that this was about 0.75 (pleeeease don't quote me on that, haha) grams per lb of lbm/day.

 

Too late! Ten characters!

[Mr Scorpio]

If you want to build muscle, or in general add mass to your body, you need a caloric surplus.

 

Therein lies the tricky part. My primary goal is to be healthy, and cardio is certainly a component of that. How do you good folks balance your cardio versus your lifting?

 

And while we're here, let's say that I do manage to put on some muscle. I assume that I have to keep eating roughly the same amounts of calories and protein to maintain that tissue?

[chuzzbug]

It's hard to find any general truths that will apply to everyone when it comes to balancing weights and cardio.

 

There are two reasons to train, not necessarily mutually exclusive. The first is to become better at something, like strength or endurance. In this case, you do more of what you want to be better at. You want to be an awesome treadmill runner, run on the treadmill.

 

The second is body composition. This is harder to prescribe because different people respond differently to exercise and diet regimens. However, what I've been told by many trainers is that a lot of cardio work (>40 mins/day) is counter-productive to building muscle. If you want to gain muscle and lean out, you're better of hitting really heavy weights and then do 10 mins of HIIT training (e.g. rower 30s max effort, 30s 80% effort, repeat).

 

A lot of training regimens take a long-term approach. First you bulk, then you cut. In the bulking phase, you go heavy and eat quite a lot. In the cut phase, you eat less but keep stimulating your muscle to avoid loss of tissue. If you're eating less, don't expect to be testing your 1RM every two weeks. Maintenance is less energy consuming than building.

 

If you're generally eating well and are maintaining good body composition for longer than 1-2 years, I suggest that you supplement your diet with pre/post workout shakes. This is in addition to anything else you'd be eating.

 

Here's my regimen when I train a lot. Some back-load their carbs (after workout only). I find doing this makes me feel really weak during my session - if I don't have fuel in my body consumed in the last 1-2 hours, I just can't feel strong.

 

pre: 1 cup oatmeal (60g carbs), 50g protein, bcaa, creatine

post: 1 cup oatmeal, 50g protein, bcaa, 1 tbsp fish oil

 

If you feel like you're hungry in the morning, consume casein before bed (e.g. 1 cup low-fat cottage cheese). Point about cottage cheese: most has a ton of salt. I didn't expect or know this until someone pointed it out to me. Look for the low-sodium cottage cheese.

 

As everyone would (and should) say, experiment with yourself (!) and monitor results. Change one thing (e.g. +casein at night) and give it 6-8 weeks. Is it making things better/same/worse? A lot of these kinds of modifications are really hard to monitor accurately because lots of things may be happening in your life that have an indirect effect. For example, it's really hard to train at the same reproducible intensity week after week. Some days I feel "on" and some days, definitely not.

 

Good luck!

[FitChick]

If you're eating a lot of protein you need to drink a lot of water to protect your kidneys.

[Mr Scorpio]

If you're eating a lot of protein you need to drink a lot of water to protect your kidneys.

 

Indeed. Fortunately, I'm already in the habit of drinking a gallon on any workout day.

[Pompeii]

1. It seems that 1g per pound of bodyweight is the accepted minimum for muscle growth. Is this the case? I am working out a diet plan to reach the 1-per goal (which is 160g for me). However, if I have a few days/weeks where I average, say, 120g, am I simply throwing away money and spinning my tires, or will I grow at a slower rate?

 

2. Do you say "ta hell with it" in regard to the mercury in tuna/chloesterol in eggs/fat in 2% milk? Is it harmful for my body to consume these foods six days a week?

 

3. What are the cheapest sources of protein? I'm getting a powder that is $0.77 per serving, and I've found that canned chicken/tuna, and eggs are fairly cheap sources. I can't afford to purchase red meat on a regular basis, or fatty fish at all. Ideas?

 

 

2. I don't eat tuna for that reason. Eggs I am averse to. I make up for the lack of protein in those sources in other ways.

 

3. Quinoa is a very good protein source. It's Chilean grain.

[tman666]

It's hard to find any general truths that will apply to everyone when it comes to balancing weights and cardio.

 

There are two reasons to train, not necessarily mutually exclusive. The first is to become better at something, like strength or endurance. In this case, you do more of what you want to be better at. You want to be an awesome treadmill runner, run on the treadmill.

 

The second is body composition. This is harder to prescribe because different people respond differently to exercise and diet regimens. However, what I've been told by many trainers is that a lot of cardio work (>40 mins/day) is counter-productive to building muscle. If you want to gain muscle and lean out, you're better of hitting really heavy weights and then do 10 mins of HIIT training (e.g. rower 30s max effort, 30s 80% effort, repeat).

 

A lot of training regimens take a long-term approach. First you bulk, then you cut. In the bulking phase, you go heavy and eat quite a lot. In the cut phase, you eat less but keep stimulating your muscle to avoid loss of tissue. If you're eating less, don't expect to be testing your 1RM every two weeks. Maintenance is less energy consuming than building.

 

If you're generally eating well and are maintaining good body composition for longer than 1-2 years, I suggest that you supplement your diet with pre/post workout shakes. This is in addition to anything else you'd be eating.

 

Here's my regimen when I train a lot. Some back-load their carbs (after workout only). I find doing this makes me feel really weak during my session - if I don't have fuel in my body consumed in the last 1-2 hours, I just can't feel strong.

 

pre: 1 cup oatmeal (60g carbs), 50g protein, bcaa, creatine

post: 1 cup oatmeal, 50g protein, bcaa, 1 tbsp fish oil

 

If you feel like you're hungry in the morning, consume casein before bed (e.g. 1 cup low-fat cottage cheese). Point about cottage cheese: most has a ton of salt. I didn't expect or know this until someone pointed it out to me. Look for the low-sodium cottage cheese.

 

As everyone would (and should) say, experiment with yourself (!) and monitor results. Change one thing (e.g. +casein at night) and give it 6-8 weeks. Is it making things better/same/worse? A lot of these kinds of modifications are really hard to monitor accurately because lots of things may be happening in your life that have an indirect effect. For example, it's really hard to train at the same reproducible intensity week after week. Some days I feel "on" and some days, definitely not.

 

Good luck!

 

Good post!

[Mr Scorpio]

pre: 1 cup oatmeal (60g carbs), 50g protein, bcaa, creatine

post: 1 cup oatmeal, 50g protein, bcaa, 1 tbsp fish oil

 

Where is the protein coming from? Are you adding powder to the oatmeal?

[PogoStick]

1. It seems that 1g per pound of bodyweight is the accepted minimum for muscle growth. Is this the case?

 

3. What are the cheapest sources of protein?

 

1g/lb -- Minimum in bodybuilding community, maximum in scientifically backed community. Are you planning to be huuuuuge?

 

Eggs are eggselent Go ahead and have 3, but only use 1 yolk. The clear stuff is the protein. Milk is another cheap, overlooked protein.

 

I don't see why you can't do cardio in between lifting days.

[Mr Scorpio]

1g/lb -- Minimum in bodybuilding community, maximum in scientifically backed community. Are you planning to be huuuuuge?

 

I neither plan nor desire to be huuuuge. I'd like to be healthy, flexible, and have some definition in my muscle. Fortunately, after making a few trips around town I've found that even on my meager income I can swing 1g per day. Thank goodness for discount supermarkets selling ground chicken with 87g for $2.89!

[Sunshinegrl]

Mr. Scorpio,

 

I found a recipe for "protein pancakes" and after making them for a few days now, I realized I needed to share it with you. It's easy and ultra cheap. Here's the recipe:

 

1 egg

3 egg whites (or 2 eggs and 1 white)

1 scoop vanilla protein powder

1/4 cup dry oatmeal

dash vanilla

dash cinnamon

 

 

Mix it all up and cook it like a pancake in a nonstick skillet. I eat it with a little honey or maple syrup. It satisfies my sweet tooth and taste for "carbs" and it's packed with 50 grams of protein in one pancake!

 

Welcome to my new breakfast

[Eternal Sunshine]

I start my morning with oatmeal with milk and 2 scoops of protein powder (55g)

 

I eat one protein bar a day (24g)

 

In Australia kangoroo meat is really cheap and THE best source of lean protein there is. Couple grilled for dinner easily pack 50g.

 

That's about all I need. I probably eat more.

[tman666]

I start my morning with oatmeal with milk and 2 scoops of protein powder (55g)

 

I eat one protein bar a day (24g)

 

In Australia kangoroo meat is really cheap and THE best source of lean protein there is. Couple grilled for dinner easily pack 50g.

That's about all I need. I probably eat more.

 

I'm baffled and jealous that you have access to cheap, plentiful kangaroo meat.

 

You 'strayans are cray cray.

[Sunshinegrl]

Down here in South Alabama we bag us some tender, lean venison. Several a year. Wonder how it compares to Roo meat...

[Harradin]

Eggs are eggselent Go ahead and have 3, but only use 1 yolk. The clear stuff is the protein

 

Is the yolk unhealthy? Just wondering!

[tman666]

Is the yolk unhealthy? Just wondering!

 

No, they are quite healthy, as well as being the most nutrient and vitamin-dense part of the egg.

[Harradin]

No, they are quite healthy, as well as being the most nutrient and vitamin-dense part of the egg.

 

So why do people avoid the yolks and just have the egg whites?

[tman666]

So why do people avoid the yolks and just have the egg whites?

 

Because they have been misinformed.