I Need to Make a Decision: I have feelings for my ex-wife

[orionboxing]

Officially divorced since last November.

 

I wanted out of my 3 year marriage due to my wife's poor behavior...we separated...and we divorced. So, I wanted to end it....and she filed the paperwork. We never cheated on each other. She had major depression during our marriage, and sort of walked all over me during the relationship because I never really stood up for myself. I became this weak person which probably turned her off.

 

She behaved badly, I lost my frame...that's the gist of it.

 

We tried counseling, and it just didn't seem to help us. We had no children.

 

I went 4 months without seeing, texting, or emailing her after the divorce was final. In March I had to see her again for taxes. I asked how she was doing and if she was OK...and she was incredibly mean and hateful, and rubbed it in my face that she was seeing somebody or having some type of rebound relationship. It crushed me to hear this.

 

I spent many nights crying my eyes out....but I never pleaded to her to give us another chance....I simply disappeared for another four months and went No Contact.

 

I decided to start dating recently. Read a ton on the art of seduction, and completely rebuilt myself. New clothes, new muscular body. Women are staring into my eyes and introducing themselves to me. My game is unbelievable and wild. I'm talking to random women and getting numbers. I have this confidence that seriously needed to be re-awakened.

 

I had to reach out to her three days ago because she had some of my old financial documents that I needed for my records. I called her at work and she seemed kind on the phone...but I purposely made the conversation short to avoid small talk and any conflict. So I'm not in the doghouse...but I'm still not sure. Either way, I've kept my distance.

 

Since April, I've been on four dates...made out with three girls and I have found someone that I'm about to be sexual with.

 

The problem: even through all of this, I still miss my ex-wife...A LOT. It seems like nobody compares. I do not know where to go. Should keep pursuing this new girl who i have marginal attraction to and see what develops, or do I go with my gut instinct and reach out to my ex-wife in order to reconcile, starting slowly of course, and building a new relationship with her?

 

Why do I want to reconcile?

 

Basically, in the time away, I've been able to pinpoint the reasons why our relationship failed. I've discovered my flaws (being too closed off, selfish personal pursuits, not being strict enough to stand up for myself to make her respect me, avoiding conflict). I've communicated with more women in the past three months than I have in the past 10 years and I'm prepared to deal with my ex-wife in a more effective way.

 

I realized how well we fit together and how compatible we actually were. Same backgrounds, education, looks, upbringing, social class, our conversations could go for hours. I never felt that strongly about a woman in my entire life (that's why I married her), I just feel we got majorly side-tracked and made the wrong decision.

 

The big thing is making her see this...and getting her alone to talk about it. I'm afraid she'll try to push me away and not give me a chance to even explain how I feel.

 

I'm sure I'll get some nasty feedback...but I'm just looking for advice here.

[orionboxing]

Any takers?

[orionboxing]

anyone?

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi!

 

Do you think that you have resolved your issues sufficiently? From my experience, it takes a lot of time and effort, as well as professional help (counselling), to really address the deep-rooted issues (to see what's the real reason, for example, for you avoiding conflicts, not standing up for yourself etc.)?

 

Have you considered individual counselling? If not, may I ask why?

 

Do you think your ex has changed enough for you two to be able to start building a healthy relationship and address what has happened in the past?

 

How much does this new girl know about your situation? Is it possible that she think you're ready for a serious relationship with her, even though you don't seem to be?

 

Best wishes

[orionboxing]

Hi!

 

Do you think that you have resolved your issues sufficiently? From my experience, it takes a lot of time and effort, as well as professional help (counselling), to really address the deep-rooted issues (to see what's the real reason, for example, for you avoiding conflicts, not standing up for yourself etc.)?

 

Have you considered individual counselling? If not, may I ask why?

 

Do you think your ex has changed enough for you two to be able to start building a healthy relationship and address what has happened in the past?

 

How much does this new girl know about your situation? Is it possible that she think you're ready for a serious relationship with her, even though you don't seem to be?

 

Best wishes

 

All very good questions, thank you for responding!

 

I went into a very deep depression 3 months ago. Could not eat, sleep, or work effectively at my job. I pulled myself back into counseling where my shrink diagnosed me as having Adjustment Disorder. Adjustment disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Since then, I started getting a little better and being very social and going out every night.

 

My ex-wife, I suspect, had Cluster-B or Borderline Personality Disorder, although I am not sure at times...but she did seek counseling independently while we were married.

 

I have been incredibly good about giving her space. The day I moved out of our house last Septmeber, I did tell her that I loved her and just left it at that. After that I did not bother her at all. No texts, sappy emails, crying on the phone. I never did any of that. I walked away and simply hid the gallons of tears of shed for her.

 

So for all she knows, I'm in a good place or at least appear to be. I don't know how she feels about me to this day, but like I said, in March, she was just brutal to me and said she "moved on". I just have trouble believing this because she was so angry.

 

About two months later, I ended up randomly talking to one of her friends and she told me that my ex-wife "thinks the world of me". I don't know how to take this.

 

This new girl is also divorced, and I made it clear that I do not talk to my ex-wife at all. However, I have not disclosed my true feelings about my ex-wife to her.

 

The new girl and I have good physical chemistry, and I want to allow myself to feel things for her, but my heart is with my ex-wife. I cannot shake her and I don't know why.

 

Thanks.

[worldgonewrong]

So I'm not in the doghouse...but I'm still not sure.

 

What doghouse? You're divorced. The question of being in one now, when you're free of her, doesn't even enter into the equation.

That would be like me wondering if I'm in the doghouse with my ex -- absurd.

 

Personally, I think it's best if you move on. The feelings of nostalgia/what-could-have-been will diminish in time, when you attune yourself to what-is and what-can-be.

[orionboxing]

What doghouse? You're divorced. The question of being in one now, when you're free of her, doesn't even enter into the equation.

That would be like me wondering if I'm in the doghouse with my ex -- absurd.

 

Personally, I think it's best if you move on. The feelings of nostalgia/what-could-have-been will diminish in time, when you attune yourself to what-is and what-can-be.

 

 

Have you ever been married before?

[marqueemoon4]

Have you ever been married before?

 

Oh, has he. Check his divorce thread.. its epic.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/263674-through-separation-jungle

[Eternal Sunshine]

No offense OP, but you need to move on.

 

Of course new girls won't compare to your ex wife. You have had what, few dates with them? It can never compare to the closeness that you built up over the years. However, it doesn't mean that the old relationship was right, it was just something you got used to. It IS much easier to stay in a bad marriage than to walk away.

 

Secondly, if your ex has BPD, it is extremely difficult to treat and hell for the partners. You can't make it all better with some extra confidence.

[marqueemoon4]

No offense OP, but you need to move on.

 

Of course new girls won't compare to your ex wife. You have had what, few dates with them? It can never compare to the closeness that you built up over the years. However, it doesn't mean that the old relationship was right, it was just something you got used to. It IS much easier to stay in a bad marriage than to walk away.

 

Secondly, if your ex has BPD, it is extremely difficult to treat and hell for the partners. You can't make it all better with some extra confidence.

 

I agree with the first paragraph, but where did the whole BPD thing come from? And the whole "move on" thing is pretty much everyone on here's answer to everything. I would say go with your feelings, just realize you may be opening yourself up to more pain.

[Steadfast]

...And the whole "move on" thing is pretty much everyone on here's answer to everything.

 

I do wish I could find a website I visited when going through my breakup. The advice was brilliantly simple; heartfelt, sincere and logical. My loose paraphrase remembers it as saying: "You love him/her and want them back? Discovered and made profound changes to yourself? Tell them. What you've done, what you're doing and what you're going to do."

 

"Go to them. Speak it...then realize you've done all you can do."

 

That's it, unless kidnapping her is in the works. Otherwise, you can't make her feel anything she doesn't want to feel. It's her choice how to respond. If she decides to pass, you'll have to move on. Sorry marqueemoon.

[marqueemoon4]

I do wish I could find a website I visited when going through my breakup. The advice was brilliantly simple; heartfelt, sincere and logical. My loose paraphrase remembers it as saying: "You love him/her and want them back? Discovered and made profound changes to yourself? Tell them. What you've done, what you're doing and what you're going to do."

 

"Go to them. Speak it...then realize you've done all you can do."

 

That's it, unless kidnapping her is in the works. Otherwise, you can't make her feel anything she doesn't want to feel. It's her choice how to respond. If she decides to pass, you'll have to move on. Sorry marqueemoon.

 

 

And that's all well and good, but in OPs situation he hasn't even spoken to her once about it. Hence why I posted what I did. And what you say does make perfect sense.

[orionboxing]

I agree with the first paragraph, but where did the whole BPD thing come from? And the whole "move on" thing is pretty much everyone on here's answer to everything. I would say go with your feelings, just realize you may be opening yourself up to more pain.

 

She had been seeing a counselor for as a long as I've known her. I think, based on what I've been reading she might have had BPD - but nothing has been officially diagnosed. I sometimes wonder if she was just a immature brat that needed a stern talking and set of rules enforced on her. After all, her father was a cop/chief of police and very stern, while her old brother seems to be one of those stubborn types as well. I became a passive pushover during our relationship, and it probably went against everything she knew about men, and it repelled her.

 

I've adopted this behavior on my own...and became a lot more Alpha. Did a ton of reading and started applying it to my daily routine interaction with others.

 

Now, these are changes that I would never reveal, but she would experience it if she were back with me. The big thing is maintaining your frame.

 

I guess it's worth a shot. I mean, I have a girl with a high interest level who I'm taking things slow with at the moment - but I need to make a decision on what path to take.

[marqueemoon4]

Exhibiting a high number of BPD traits can be an impossible obstacle to overcome, no matter how much you've improved yourself (and I believe you have). What is the more healthy option? An ex wife who very well may be a lost cause or someone new who maybe you can build something special with? I know exactly where you are coming from, but AT LEAST you have the option to sever ties with your ex permanently since you have no kids. I dunno, choose wisely.

[TaraMaiden]

The commitment to making a second-time-hit successful, has to be equally divided between both partners.

Even the slightest shortfall on the part of one person, cannot be made up by the other.

It's too much to ask, and not the responsibility of the 100% committed one, to go the extra mile to compensate for the other person's 85% contribution.

 

 

You have no way of knowing whether your ex would be willing to step up to the plate, but by the sound of your posts, it seems highly unlikely.

 

No matter what your progress has been since your split, you can pretty much guarantee she hasn't kept pace.

 

So it seems pretty much a sure bet that in a way, you've left her behind, if not standing.

 

The one who needs to make the approach, with regard to trying again, is her, not you.

She threw you off the marriage car. She's got to want you back on it.

 

Look to your new young lady, and be honest with her about your feelings. Don't venture into this new relationship with the shadow of a lie above you.

 

Talk to her.

 

But in my opinion, the best thing to do, would be to leave the sleeping Rottweiler well alone.....

[trippi1432]

Orion - Reading back on your threads and experience through the divorce, you have gotten a lot of good advice. The marriage ended, for reasons that it needed to at the time. The hardest part about moving on and finding your happiness happens when you obsess over what could have been. It is time to let that go and find happiness now in what can be, by building a better relationship with yourself.

 

It's no longer about who you are now and what you should have, could have or would have done. You cannot impose your will over someone else. Having your "frame" back is the work you have done to build yourself a better "balance". The decision is more on how to let go and use what you know now to build better relationships in the future with someone else. Anyone new deserves that respect. In addition, your wife deserves to find her happiness as well. If that is you, she will let you know. But to interfere in her new relationship AFTER you are divorced....there really is no decision.

 

It's good that she can say she thinks the world of you, but that's not an invitation. Be thankful for that as not a lot of exes can say that about their previous spouses. You've gotten your closure, you don't like it which is understandable, but you have to work through it now....you cannot force things to be the way you want them to be.

[Steadfast]

...I became a passive pushover during our relationship, and it probably went against everything she knew about men, and it repelled her.

 

I've adopted this behavior on my own...and became a lot more Alpha. Did a ton of reading and started applying it to my daily routine interaction with others.

 

Now, these are changes that I would never reveal, but she would experience it if she were back with me. The big thing is maintaining your frame.

 

I guess it's worth a shot. I mean, I have a girl with a high interest level who I'm taking things slow with at the moment - but I need to make a decision on what path to take.

 

I'm not saying the whole Xuma/Dr. Love 'System' thing is without merit, but most men who are trying to make themselves into the kind of Alpha man they *think* women want are playing a losing game. Newsflash: women read this too. They aren't stupid. In fact, the stupidest thing you can attempt to do is outsmart someone who is smarter than you. You're at a distinct disadvantage if you're running the 'System' on a woman who knows you're playing it. Game over. For you. Nothing is better than being genuine. No matter how Alpha you become, you will eventually return.

 

The best approach is to develop healthy boundaries that highlight your strengths as a person while strengthening your weaknesses. This is unisex development; applicable to both sexes. Some people are givers and some are takers. I'm a giver and so is my girlfriend. I've learned not to manipulate with caring love and she's learned love and romance do not make up her identity. My point? You (and I) fell in love with the wrong woman. Anyone who makes you 'change' who you are for relationship success (if that's possible) is in control. Alpha or not. She's in control.

 

Ditch the Alpha male BS and become a better person.

 

The commitment to making a second-time-hit successful, has to be equally divided between both partners.

Even the slightest shortfall on the part of one person, cannot be made up by the other. It's too much to ask, and not the responsibility of the 100% committed one, to go the extra mile to compensate for the other person's 85% contribution.

 

Words of wisdom. Cancel your subscription to Xuma and listen to Tara.

[orionboxing]

No matter what your progress has been since your split, you can pretty much guarantee she hasn't kept pace.

 

So it seems pretty much a sure bet that in a way, you've left her behind, if not standing.

 

Can you clarify this for me? Are you saying she probably hasn't made much progress in her personal life?

 

As for the second statement, you are saying that I ditched the relationship? Correct?

 

I think her anger issue with me in March when she said she "moved on" was pretty reactive. Look, when you've really moved on, you are indifferent, not aiming for the kill like she was trying to do. What I received was NOT indifference.

 

I also know that when I'm "seeing someone" like I AM now, my intention is not to inflict pain on exes and incite jealously like she did. Fine, it worked, and it hurt me. I don't understand this way of thinking.

[trippi1432]

Orion - you posted this on March 11, 2013 in another thread:

 

After asking for a divorce last year, I went through a bout of sadness recently where I mourned the death of my marriage. For reasons unexplained, I desired the see my wife again. I had to meet with her regarding some financial things regardless. When she contacted me via a phone call, she sounded bright and full of life. A good sign, I thought.

 

But a mere hour later our meetup was very cold and unpleasant, clearly influenced by whatever meds she had taken. It seemed like I was talking to another person...almost a multiple-personality situation.

 

At first I was hurt, but soon realized that my ex-wife is still very, very ill and there is nothing I, or sadly her for that matter, can do about it. Her counselors (both of them) can not seem to get her out of the dark. It's a sad situation in retrospect...and I cannot place the blame on myself any longer.

 

This on May 8th, 2013

 

March 2012 – I decide to end my marriage to my wife of 3 years. We had tried two different marriage counselors up until that point. My wife had some control and anger issues, and we rarely had sex because of her depression. She was on a lot of different meds which messed with her libido. I was patient and tried to loving with her, but I was getting so little in return and I was getting very frustrated and hurt by her treatment. Once I asked to divorce, my wife left the house for a week and cried her eyes out at her parent’s house. I very rarely cried…it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders.

 

In the meantime we put the house up for sale, and stayed in separate rooms and go about our own business while separated. We are civil and even work together on a lot of household tasks with no real problems. I am also supportive of her during this time, asking if she needs my help…or assistance with anything that is going on with her life.

 

September 2012 – I finally leave the house after the house sells. While moving the last box to my apartment, my wife and I look at each other and start crying. We hug for a long time. I spent periods of time in my new apartment thinking about my wife and wondering how she is – but I’m doing fine mentally and not missing her.

 

November 2012 – We finally divorce. My wife is rather cold, but not cruel to me at the proceedings. She seems like a completely different person, almost like a stranger. No contact ensues.

 

February 2013 – I’m sitting alone in my apartment and start feeling strange things. I start worrying about her. I find myself being attracted to her again, but don’t contact her.

 

March 2013 – We have to see each other to sort of financial/tax stuff. After the meeting, I decide to ask how she is doing to lend her support. She takes the opportunity to bash the living crap out of me completely unprovoked. She tells me she’s moved on and never has to talk with me again and says she’s “seeing someone” (no proof even to this day via social media). I think she might be lying, sometimes I think it’s very true.

 

And now the original post here. Why is it back in March, when you posted that she was cold, unpleasant and it must have been her meds there was no mention of her being in a new relationship until May? I'd like to understand the momentum you are seeing that her anger must mean she still loves you since she is not indifferent.

 

Were there two different financial meetings in March, one in which she was just cold and unpleasant and then another one where she "bashed the living crap out of you" and "rubbed it in your face"? I'm sorry, I see a disconnect between what happened in March and where you got to in May to get you here now.

[orionboxing]

Were there two different financial meetings in March, one in which she was just cold and unpleasant and then another one where she "bashed the living crap out of you" and "rubbed it in your face"? I'm sorry, I see a disconnect between what happened in March and where you got to in May to get you here now.

 

No, it was one meeting on March 6th. That was it. March 6th was the last time I saw her in person.

 

Earlier that day when she contacted me to confirm that I'd be at the meeting, she was pretty nice and pleasant on the phone. When I get to the actual meeting she is cold, and rather unpleasant and trying to ignore me. She is dressed in this sexy outfit and texting constantly. I remember her asking her a question about our old house and she looked up and gave me this dirty dismissive look.

 

When we get to the parking lot, I ask if how she's doing, if she is OK, just trying to be nice. I told her I was worried about her. She then went into this rant about how she has moved on, and never has to see me again, how I don't have to know anything about her anymore, and that she is seeing someone.

 

I just listened to her, didn't say much, and left. No crying, pleading on my behalf. I just went to my car and drove home. A few days later I go into this horrible depression.

 

Then like a month and a half later, I'm out with one of my friends and I see one our bridesmaids. The bridesmaid gives me hug and she says that she is sorry that my ex-wife and I separated but that my ex-wife still thinks the world of me. So, I'm scratching my head and wondering what the hell is going on....but I stay No Contact.

[trippi1432]

Orion - you cannot go on hear-say, her actions in March said it all. Since then, she has not shown you any actions that indicate she wants to try again. No Contact is for you to heal, not to get her back, not to make her wonder...it has absolutely NOTHING to do with her.

 

The depression is understandable, but it's also indicative that you realize she was capable of moving on. In this depression, you are idealizing her, putting her on a pedestal. That's not healthy for your happiness, I hope that you can see that. I noted that you have been talking to the MC that knows both of you; however, I feel this might be damaging to your psyche as it appears the MC is giving you false hope or could you be putting too much into the hear-say from the bridesmaid. What TaraMaiden outlined for you is very spot on.

 

Can you clarify this for me? Are you saying she probably hasn't made much progress in her personal life?

 

As for the second statement, you are saying that I ditched the relationship? Correct?

 

I think her anger issue with me in March when she said she "moved on" was pretty reactive. Look, when you've really moved on, you are indifferent, not aiming for the kill like she was trying to do. What I received was NOT indifference.

 

You are essentially misunderstanding indifference, the indifference would be that she "thinks the world of you" but she is happy in her new relationship (in which she is correct, you have no need to know anything about). It could just be your perception that she was aiming for the kill to hurt you which is much easier to accept than the fact that she really has moved on. What I think you are hopeful for is that if her reaction was of scorn and hate and not indifference, this could mean that she stills feels love for you since it is said that hate is the opposite of love....being there is still some emotion. Emotions are just that, emotions. The actions are everything and to date, there have been none.

 

I also know that when I'm "seeing someone" like I AM now, my intention is not to inflict pain on exes and incite jealously like she did. Fine, it worked, and it hurt me. I don't understand this way of thinking.

 

And this is why you are you and she is who she is, an ex-wife. Your energy could be much better expended in learning this new person in your life and finding your own happiness. It's wonderful that you shared so much with your ex-wife, once you pull yourself back up, you will find those qualities in someone else one day and may not have the issues that were present in the marriage.

[TaraMaiden]

No matter what your progress has been since your split, you can pretty much guarantee she hasn't kept pace.

 

So it seems pretty much a sure bet that in a way, you've left her behind, if not standing.

 

Can you clarify this for me? Are you saying she probably hasn't made much progress in her personal life?

Not necessarily.

What I'm saying is that she has made far less progress than you have, in divesting herself of Anger, Resentment and animosity. She still holds a grudge. Emotionally speaking, as far as you and she are concerned, she's remained 'stuck' in a particular mind-set.

 

As for the second statement, you are saying that I ditched the relationship? Correct?

No.

What I'm saying is that while you have made tangible and visible efforts to improve yourself, in "Mind, Body and Soul" psychologically,. she's nowhere near to where you are, with regard to the Attitude' progress. You seem to have moved way up the healed ladder, on the emotional level. She's still on the lower rungs....

 

I think her anger issue with me in March when she said she "moved on" was pretty reactive. Look, when you've really moved on, you are indifferent, not aiming for the kill like she was trying to do. What I received was NOT indifference.

'Amiable Indifference' is being able to see your ex in a romantic clinch with another person, and be happy for them, but equally non-committal.

Clearly, there is still a lot of unresolved emotion on her part.

I certainly never suggested 'indifference' anywhere. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

I also know that when I'm "seeing someone" like I AM now, my intention is not to inflict pain on exes and incite jealously like she did. Fine, it worked, and it hurt me. I don't understand this way of thinking.

Nobody's asking you to understand it.

That's not your 'job' necessarily.

What you have to do, is to evaluate it, and decide within your heart, how to accept it.

 

The 'mature' way would be to understand the different statuses in which you're both existing at the moment, and see that this is merely the way things are.

 

There's no going back at all, if this is where she's at.

While I understand Steadfast's comment with regard to being the genuine you, you cannot, at the same time, unlearn what you have learnt.

 

Temperament is pretty rooted.

Character is more malleable.

Experience is a great teacher, in either case.

 

You are now, who you are now.

 

Conversely, she is who she is - with more road to travel.

[marqueemoon4]

So much solid advice in here. If I were you I would take advantage of all the attention you're getting from other women right now.

Edited June 15, 2013 by marqueemoon4

[aMguilts]

You are now, who you are now.

 

Conversely, she is who she is - with more road to travel.

 

 

doesn`t that go the other way too?

 

so he has no `road left to travel`?

 

did i read that right?

 

aM

[TaraMaiden]

No, you didn't.