Now I'm doubting myself :-(

[Zapbasket]

I posted about my situation in another thread: I've been with K. for three years; about two months ago we decided to take a break; we took one for about six weeks and then met up to talk; after a week I ended the relationship. That was this past Friday.

 

I've had a good relationship with K's family and today I met up with his mom. We took a three-hour walk. She said she felt we got back together too soon and need a longer break; she said she felt we were going to need a third-party intervention to help us improve our communication and felt our difficulties were completely workable if we both wanted it enough. She said she did not agree with my feeling that counseling would not help us at this point, maybe individual counseling but not couples counseling. And she said she thinks I got too stuck on the "why hasn't he proposed to me after three years" issue and that of course he could not discuss marriage if we were having so many difficulties. I said that I wasn't expecting a proposal, but a discussion about the future that K. never initiated and resisted when I brought it up.

 

Anyway, now I'm doubting myself. Should we have taken a longer break? Was I wrong to refuse counseling? Was I wrong to do this?

 

I knew this might happen as I care about her opinion and she has and can influence me and many times that has been a good thing. But now I'm crying because I feel doubt in the rightness of my convictions, my intuition, and my decision to end the relationship.

 

What I don't understand is why she doesn't see the problem with never discussing the future after THREE YEARS. That's plenty reason in others' eyes to end a relationship right there. There are plenty of moms I've heard of who push their sons never to leave a woman hanging, to make a decision one way or other, etc.

 

I'm just venting, perhaps, feeling very alone and sad in the knowledge that it's the end, good and bad, of what once was. I just wish someone had MY back, you know? I just feel so sad.

[TaraMaiden]

We've got your back, GreenCove.

 

 

She has an emotional vested interest.

 

When my ex and I broke up, my mother was utterly devastated at first.

She pleaded with me, "You were our constant in an ever-changing world...."

 

Now?

Now she sees why it ended, and knows it was the best choice I could have made.

 

At the time, she just didn't want to see something she had grown to accept, love and respect, be dashed to pieces.

 

So I can see why his mother might have tried to persuade you differently, but I think you, being in the thick of it, are the better judge.

 

I know it hurts to be right, because you would so like, in a way, to think she may have a point.

 

You're mourning.

 

And that's ok.

[jphcbpa]

if you want to give it another shot, there is not shame in that, but do it for you. try the therapy. what is the worst that can happen. it might help you get more clarity about the relationship and it will for sure help you.

[Zapbasket]

We've got your back, GreenCove.

 

Thanks, TaraMaiden.

 

She has an emotional vested interest.

I understand that, but if I'm listening purely to my spidey sense, truth is it doesn't feel like she cares how I feel at all, really. She's not going to permit any possibility that her son played a major hand in the relationship's demise.

 

I am particularly hurt that she did not, or would not, acknowledge at all the vast difference between what role I would have with the whole family, and with K., if we were engaged, versus what I have when we've been dating for three years and no steps have been made or even discussed toward an engagement, versus what I have now, when I finally ended the relationship and the writing is as plain as day on the wall that things cannot stay the same and I'm no longer "in the fold," as far as she and the family go.

 

When I said that I had looked forward to being an Aunt to K's little nieces, she said that she has had lots of relationships with lots of children without being in a particular, defined role with them, as Aunt or such...and that a person's relationship to a family need not be defined by their relationship to a particular person in the family (wha--???). She said that K. in his infinite generosity pleaded with her to always be kind to me and she said that makes it easier to keep up a relationship with me because then she doesn't feel put in the middle.

 

All well and good, but she really won't accept any fault on K's part and I am pretty shocked that she doesn't recognize the HUGE difference it makes when you are married into a family versus the ex-girlfriend of one of its members. I must accept a loss here that she acts like doesn't exist. She seems not to be able to acknowledge or recognize that OF COURSE it was a real hurt and source of frustration to me that her son could not talk about the future, EVER, with me, and when he finally did out of my pushing him to, his plans were vague and clearly not thought out at all. And she insists that he WOULD have proposed had we not had the communication problems we did.

 

It hurts because my mother is my only family. She is the same age as K's grandparents (K's mom had K. when she was a teenager; my mom had me when she was 40), and when my mom is gone, the family that I'm married into will BE my family. So this is a HUGE deal to me and I am hurt that she doesn't recognize this.

 

When I told her how much I loved the little girls (K's nieces) and would love to see them if they are here again this summer (they live in another part of the state), she said she might have another garage sale (she had one this past Saturday and the girls and K's sister came to sell a bunch of baby stuff) in a couple of weeks and she'll invite me over. And at that point we were back at our cars so it wasn't the place to say so, but I was like, "Well, yeah, I do want to see the girls but can't you understand why it's not possible for me to come over to your house, where K is, and spend the day over there?"

 

I'm afraid this could get ugly; it's a small town and she told me she told K, and she's telling me, that she hopes we're both mature enough not to say a bad word about one another and she'll be upset if she hears through the grapevine that K said this about GreenCove, or GreenCove said that about K. I'm afraid that if I set up boundaries that are comfortable for me--not going over to their house (because K. lives in an apartment on their property), maybe not seeing her for a while...then she'll just read it as me being the "difficult" person her son always said I was.

 

I feel at a loss for how to handle this going forward but I have the sinking feeling that no matter what I do, it will either involve more hurt to me and/or being seen in a negative light by a mother who will have her son's back to the point of blindness.

[TaraMaiden]

Well... after reading that, you know what I'm thinking?

 

"Tough luck bitch - if this doesn't go your way, then suck it up. You don't get to tell me how I deal with this schytt. Until you see it takes two to tango, and that your son's been a complete jerk - then take whatever's coming!"

 

GreenCove, hard as it may be to believe this right now, this too SHALL pass.

 

She's trying to stipulate your feelings, reactions and responses, and sorry, but she has no right to that. She can't own this, it's not on her. it's on you and ex-.

 

Yup.

I get distancing yourself from him will mean sacrificing aspects of your relationship involving others - but sadly, that's par for the course.

 

I haven't seen my niece or nephew for 10 years - and I knew them right from the beginning, virtually.

I didn't even know my SiL had passed away until my ex H told me he couldn't make a particular appointment, because he had to attend her funeral.... so yeah. Separation sucks, in more ways than one.

But the pain subsides, and things blow over.

 

Stick to your guns and do what your gut tells you is right.

[oldshirt]

Had a marriage therapist tell me once that separation/"breaks" are good for one thing and one thing only and that is to help ease the transition into divorce/breaking up.

 

granted he was talking primarily about marriages but I think the concept still applies. A separation helps you to adjust and transition into being on your own and transitioning into your new life so that you can move on better.

 

Sure there may be some lonely nights and there may be some periods of missing someone and remembering fond memories of the good times but the main thing that a separation does is help transition from "us" to "me" more smoothly and without the icy shock of plunging in to singlehood all at once.

 

A longer 'break' would have just made you that much more single and independent. It wouldn't have saved your relationship or made a difference in reconciliation.

 

While a few people may change their minds about splitting up, for the most part Separations are not for reconciliation. Separations are to begin the singlehood process and to ease the transition of going from a couple into a single.

[Zapbasket]

I get distancing yourself from him will mean sacrificing aspects of your relationship involving others - but sadly, that's par for the course.

 

The way I understood our conversation earlier today, she was trying to tell me that there WAS no sacrificing of aspects of my relationship with the rest of them. Saying that my relationship to the rest of the family is not predicated upon my relationship with that one member (her son). It felt like she was trying to tell me that nothing changes...except from the fact alone of her not recognizing that what *I* take to be a "normal" relationship is one where eventually you formally become a part of the family through MARRIAGE into it. She was acting like there is no loss I have to face, when of course the loss is huge. I mean, it's not like she's going to invite me to Thanksgiving this year, or Christmas. I've spent the past three Thanksgivings and Christmases with them.

 

I feel very angry at her right now.

 

Stick to your guns and do what your gut tells you is right.

 

What's sad, and confusing, is that my gut tells me that the only way to move on and not end up in a bigger quagmire that makes me feel only worse is to cut them all off. Of course I can be nice about it, and say hi when I see one of them at City Market and such, and K's mom and I work for the same employer...but I need to walk away from the whole thing. We ended our walk and talk with her telling me to "call her in a couple of weeks" and we can take a walk and to "enjoy myself" because maybe K and I tried *too* hard in the relationship and that was part of the problem that caused us to be tense, etc.

 

And I don't think it's a good idea for me to call her, or to go on a walk with her. Every time we've gotten together one on one over the years it's been to talk about the relationship with her son, and that talk is ALWAYS initiated by her, because to tell you the truth, as nice as any man's mother might be, I am not, and was not, comfortable with talking about relationship issues with my partner's mother. I did it because I was new in town and trying to find my way, and the relationship was a source of stress and upset to me, and I thought honestly all the while that she had my back.

 

Sure, she had my back as long as I got back in line to continue on with her son. Or so it feels after our conversation today.

 

I feel to go on more walks with her is like walking into a minefield.

 

I also feel like I need to take steps toward one goal of finding myself with a man with whom I can have a good relationship, and then a good relationship with his family, and he with my mom. And before I can do that, I need to get myself to a place--emotionally and geographically, if it comes to that--where I am happier than I have been for the past 5 years.

 

This is one of those crossroads where I an my gut get tangled in each other. My gut tells me to walk away from the whole thing, family included. My heart says, "No!" because I did, and still do, love K's mom. But my gut says that perhaps she doesn't love you in the way you thought she did, and perhaps it's not worth hanging around and finding out. Because if it is real love for ME, separately from anything having to do with her son, that will show itself without my doing a thing. SAdly, I think this meeting today indicated strongly which way it might go.

 

Maybe I'm wrong; it's all fresh. But my gut is saying, "Run."

[Zapbasket]

A longer 'break' would have just made you that much more single and independent. It wouldn't have saved your relationship or made a difference in reconciliation.

 

While a few people may change their minds about splitting up, for the most part Separations are not for reconciliation. Separations are to begin the singlehood process and to ease the transition of going from a couple into a single.

 

I'm so glad you said this because that's how I feel, too. I didn't go into the break with the idea that I was doing it to "ease the transition to singlehood"; I sincerely was doing it as a last-ditch effort to save the relationship. But after the six weeks apart, I didn't see it being a good idea to continue on a break as his mother thought we should have done. She attributes the break-up in part to the fact that we started talking again too soon. I didn't think so, and apparently she has a real hold on me because when she expressed her opinion I doubted myself, but as I sit here in the clarity of your and my objective thoughts, I think it was "do or die" for the relationship at this point, and after assessing things on our week back, I was satisfied I had enough information to choose "die."

 

You're right that the time apart has helped me with this part now, the true relationship end. I think though that I was not prepared for the pain of losing his family; I have called them "my Colorado family." During the break, K's mom met with me every week or so and talked with me about the relationship. So I still felt very much "in the family" at that point. Now that's not the case, and it is really hitting me hard.

 

I had never believed in breaks as I saw them as you and your therapist do: they're vehicles to an ending, not a way to reboot the relationship. I do think that in some VERY RARE cases, a break can help a relationship go forward on a better footing, such as when one member of the relationship has to deal with something very difficult and they just need time alone to sort it through. But otherwise, you're right: they don't really do anything but ease the transition to an ending.

[TaraMaiden]

The thought strikes me that you haven't ever really stood up to her matriarchal instincts. have you ever confronted her and told her flat out that she's wrong on different levels?

 

I'm not accusing you or confronting you. I'm merely asking what, if anything, you've done to rectify the misconception she has of your relationship with her son, and his role in all of this?

[Zapbasket]

The thought strikes me that you haven't ever really stood up to her matriarchal instincts. have you ever confronted her and told her flat out that she's wrong on different levels?

 

I'm not accusing you or confronting you. I'm merely asking what, if anything, you've done to rectify the misconception she has of your relationship with her son, and his role in all of this?

 

No, I haven't. I went further today than I have in the past: I said I felt that he got satisfaction out of pushing my buttons to get a rise out of me and that perhaps that meant more to him on some level than striving for peace. And I said that even after three years of asking him to stop poking and grabbing at me and "honking" my breasts he still persisted even up to our time together after our six-week break. I also told her that the same day that I had a procedure to remove some pre-cancerous lesions on my cervix and I had told him it hurt to sit and I was bleeding a lot, he would grind against me, honk my breasts, etc.

 

That's the furthest I've gone. If I pushed further and said I thought he'd been a real ******* much of the time, and no woman I know would stay for three years with a man who's living at home even if he is technically renting an apartment there, who has made not a whit of progress in his life for the three years I've known him and who blames everything but himself for his inability to get where he wants to go in life...she would have defended him, and gotten angry at me even if she didn't show it directly.

 

She's very forceful in her opinions, and in this valley she's powerful because everyone knows her; she used to be my boss where we work; and I guess in my vulnerability from having had such a hard time here, I was cowed by her.

[sunshinegirl]

Well, darn.

 

She circled the wagons, GC. Consciously or not.

 

It's time for you to take care of yourself and in this case I do think it means creating distance from the entire family. K misunderstood you, and K's mother misunderstands. As much as you love her, hanging around people who DO NOT HAVE YOUR BACK will not be helpful to your healing. And it will not be productive to try to show or tell or argue with her that her son is a jerk.

 

I can only imagine how difficult it is to realize that her relationship to you may not have been what you thought it was. I'm sorry.

[Zapbasket]

I can only imagine how difficult it is to realize that her relationship to you may not have been what you thought it was. I'm sorry.

 

Thank you, SSG. In some ways, it hurts worse than any of my break-ups, including the break-up with her son. It hurts so bad I feel this like, white blindness and I haven't been able to focus on a thing all day. Even now, I cannot sit still; I haven't eaten and I think I need to drive. I feel just as alone here in Colorado as I did four years ago. Seriously I have not one person out here I can call to say, "Omg, here's what happened," or even to just go have a drink with.

 

I truly trusted her. My mom told me not to expect that I'll hear from her again, and if so, to count myself lucky, because it'll make it that much easier to do what I know needs to be done. She may call to invite me to help out at her next garage sale so that I can play with the little girls. Really, now nice: a garage sale and gratis babysitting gig. That's essentially what it would be.

 

Really sucks. I'll be okay, but...it sucks.

[Alma Mobley]

Hi GC,

 

I have been following your posts and even remember the old ones you posted. I have always thought that K's mother came off as manipulative. But I think these recent posts just prove it. She does not have YOUR best interests at heart, only her son's. Also, think about it -- she raised the son who has all these issues, enjoys getting under your skin, etc. This stuff doesn't come out of nowhere. I think it is the poster carhill who emphasizes looking at the family of origin (FOO) to get a feel of why people are the way they are. I could elaborate in what I see here, but maybe you should do that thinking, not me.

 

My personal opinion is to cut them all off, with a polite message of course.

[Zapbasket]

I know I need to cut them off, but...do you think I really need to do a polite note or can I just drop off, being cordial, of course, when I inevitably run into one of them at the store, at the local restaurants, etc.?

 

The thing is, I really didn't see this coming from his mom. The likelihood of an eventual breakup with K, yes. This from his mom, not at all. It's 4 a.m. my time and I have been so upset I have not been able to sleep. I have a pain in my chest from the hurt and the surprise. I just drove up the highway and back for an hour because I couldn't bear to be trapped between walls with this feeling.

 

I agree with you and Carhill about FOO. But...how possibly could I have foreseen this? I'm really asking. I mean, I'm sure people could look at how my mom and I interact sometimes, and then look at the fact that my dad killed himself and I had a mean stepdad who dropped (thankfully) out of my life when I was 21, and the fact that because of my dad's death and because the ones I WAS close to have all died, I'm not close with the rest of my family--someone could look at all that and not want to bother with me. But then, I am sociable and get on well with others and don't enjoy getting under people's skin, etc.

 

Sure, I wondered where on earth K learned some of his behaviors. But surely you just can't blame the mother when his or her adult child acts like a chump. Surely the mother isn't always to blame?

 

I'm really asking these questions, not arguing back at you. I want to learn because clearly I need to change some of my behaviors, particularly knowing when to exit a situation that is clearly bad. I mean, I felt utterly duped by his mother and I am so, so hurt to see what I see now. I can't begin to express how hurt.

[sunshinegirl]

I know I need to cut them off, but...do you think I really need to do a polite note or can I just drop off, being cordial, of course, when I inevitably run into one of them at the store, at the local restaurants, etc.?

 

The thing is, I really didn't see this coming from his mom. The likelihood of an eventual breakup with K, yes. This from his mom, not at all. It's 4 a.m. my time and I have been so upset I have not been able to sleep. I have a pain in my chest from the hurt and the surprise. I just drove up the highway and back for an hour because I couldn't bear to be trapped between walls with this feeling.

 

I agree with you and Carhill about FOO. But...how possibly could I have foreseen this? I'm really asking. I mean, I'm sure people could look at how my mom and I interact sometimes, and then look at the fact that my dad killed himself and I had a mean stepdad who dropped (thankfully) out of my life when I was 21, and the fact that because of my dad's death and because the ones I WAS close to have all died, I'm not close with the rest of my family--someone could look at all that and not want to bother with me. But then, I am sociable and get on well with others and don't enjoy getting under people's skin, etc.

 

Sure, I wondered where on earth K learned some of his behaviors. But surely you just can't blame the mother when his or her adult child acts like a chump. Surely the mother isn't always to blame?

 

I'm really asking these questions, not arguing back at you. I want to learn because clearly I need to change some of my behaviors, particularly knowing when to exit a situation that is clearly bad. I mean, I felt utterly duped by his mother and I am so, so hurt to see what I see now. I can't begin to express how hurt.

 

You really don't "owe" her anything, so you can drop off if you want to.

 

The bolded part is screaming at me right now. GC, you've known for most of the 3 years that your situation was bad. Truly, you knew it. You fought it, and stayed in to try to make things work, but deep down you really knew things weren't working.

 

I'll try to say this gently: the pattern I've seen in you, over several years now, and across three relationships, is an incredible internal wrestling match after the relationships ends where you try to "solve" the puzzle of what the heck was wrong with said guy. Pages and pages of analysis, thinking, wondering, speculating.

 

I recognize it, because I did it too. Across 4 relationships. I saw my counselor after every ending, and hashed things out over and over and over with her - what the hell was wrong with them? And I remember that after the 2nd ending, my counselor started probing into my own FOO and what was going on there, but I wasn't interested, I couldn't hear it, I wasn't ready to dive in. I really needed to understand their issues. And trust me, they all had issues. Truly.

 

But after the 4th ending, I was finally ready to try something different, and really, really, wrestle with how my man-picker got so broken. Good god, I couldn't seem to break my patterns (each guy was a different variation on the same theme) so I thought, fine. Let's look at my daddy issues. (Turns out I had mommy issues too.)

 

GC, I'm telling you this because it was only when I stopped obsessing over the psychology of these men, and started looking at my own beliefs, behaviors, history, psychology, etc., that I made any real progress in fixing my man-picker.

 

I haven't seen you really go there. I expect you'll push back on that - you are amazingly self-aware in some respects, and I'm sure you've learned things about yourself each time - but from where I sit and what I've read over these several years, you haven't yet gotten to a place of saying, "wait a minute, what the hell?!? Why do I keep second guessing my gut, why do I stay in situations that are clearly bad and are clearly making me unhappy? Why do I continue to invest in men who have 'potential' instead of men who ALREADY ARE what I need? Why do I dishonor myself and my needs in these relationships? Do I deep down believe I don't deserve more? Am I trying to solve my FOO issues through these relationships? Where do these bad choices come from?"

 

I hope you can get to a place where you realize that K's psychology and K's mom are really beside the point. They are who they are (they kind of suck, frankly), and WHO CARES, they will no longer be central actors in the play of your life. YOU are the star of the show, and YOU get to choose the next characters. What are YOU going to do to ensure you pick good ones?

[Zapbasket]

The bolded part is screaming at me right now. GC, you've known for most of the 3 years that your situation was bad. Truly, you knew it. You fought it, and stayed in to try to make things work, but deep down you really knew things weren't working.

 

I sure did. My gut screamed at me the whole time I was in this relationship, and nothing K said or did made that feeling abate. I knew exactly what I needed to know; I even read some of my old threads about my relationship with K and I think, "Dang, I knew that then? I understood that then?"

 

I agree with absolutely everything you say here, and I am beginning to look hard at those things. Truth is, this is one time when actually I DON'T feel that interested in K's psychology. I started my previous thread wanting interpretations on his lackadaisical email response to me, and as I went along, I really wanted to just address what my gut had been telling me all along, and writing responses in that thread actually helped me build the courage finally to end it.

 

So I saw early on that things with K were wrong, and the GC I want to be from now on is one that would have walked three months into the relationship when his behaviors first disgusted me. So partly that means, "Respect your gut; it knows."

 

But here's the thing: with K's mom, I truly did feel safe. I really thought she had my back. The only thing I ever felt uncomfortable with was her penchant for asking to do something one on one with me and it always being a conversation, initiated by her, about K's and my relationship. I was never fully comfortable in these conversations, because I couldn't tell her what I saw, and so I had to play along with how "everything is 50/50," which I emphatically felt it was NOT. But I thought she was just a caring person whose approach maybe was a bit misguided but whose heart was very much in the right place, and so I went along with it. Many times when I was on the brink of ending it with K, I stayed because of how safe I felt with her and his family. I truly felt we had a loving relationship, she and I, and that on that basis she never would forsake me. Even when K and I started out, she said to me on multiple occasions, "I want you to know that no matter what happens between you and K, it won't affect what I feel about you personally or professionally." Ha.

 

So with her, my gut really failed me. I did not see any of what happened yesterday coming. How on earth did I miss this? If my gut is a reliable source of data on the underlying "truth" about the safety and healthfulness of any given relationship, how did it completely miss this sleeping tiger?

[sunshinegirl]

But here's the thing: with K's mom, I truly did feel safe. I really thought she had my back. The only thing I ever felt uncomfortable with was her penchant for asking to do something one on one with me and it always being a conversation, initiated by her, about K's and my relationship. I was never fully comfortable in these conversations, because I couldn't tell her what I saw, and so I had to play along with how "everything is 50/50," which I emphatically felt it was NOT. But I thought she was just a caring person whose approach maybe was a bit misguided but whose heart was very much in the right place, and so I went along with it. Many times when I was on the brink of ending it with K, I stayed because of how safe I felt with her and his family. I truly felt we had a loving relationship, she and I, and that on that basis she never would forsake me. Even when K and I started out, she said to me on multiple occasions, "I want you to know that no matter what happens between you and K, it won't affect what I feel about you personally or professionally." Ha.

 

So with her, my gut really failed me. I did not see any of what happened yesterday coming. How on earth did I miss this? If my gut is a reliable source of data on the underlying "truth" about the safety and healthfulness of any given relationship, how did it completely miss this sleeping tiger?

 

I'm not totally sure what to say to this, but it occurs to me that perhaps the relationship w/ K's mom is also related to some FOO things of yours? Losing K's family seems almost worse for you than losing him; I wonder if your longing for a family like his (perhaps due to what you didn't get to have yourself?) might have (a) blinded you to red flag patterns or behaviors from K's mom or (b) led to you not realizing that the relationship w/ his mom would almost certainly be conditional on your relationship w/ K (despite what she may have said).

[tbf]

No matter how many times I read these posts about K's mother, I don't see what's so terrible about her behaviour.

 

She's K's mother. It's to be expected that her loyalties will align with K. I also don't see how she's negated you, in that she's willing to maintain contact even post break up. This is far more than most mothers would do, if their son was no longer in a relationship with their girlfriend. What it says to me is that she does have personal affection for you and to expect that she would take your side over her son's, where she's also got a lot of guilt from not being there for him when she was younger, isn't realistic. I said this in your last thread with no response from you.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if she's saying something similar to her son, trying not to take sides.

 

GC, how fair is it for you to drag her into the middle of this and then be devastated that she won't side with you?

[Zapbasket]

 

GC, how fair is it for you to drag her into the middle of this and then be devastated that she won't side with you?

 

But that's just it. I was never dragging her into this. As I said, it never was comfortable for me to discuss the relationship with her and never initiated it. She made EVERY one-on-one meeting with her about my relationship with K and ways I can improve my part in the dynamics. The problem was, I never could really tell her how I saw the relationship, and so her advice was based on only some of the facts and of course those facts minimized her son's role.

 

Why did she insert herself? I accepted it b/c I thought she could handle being in that position, which would mean accepting that both "sides" might have valid points. And yesterday she completely negated my views, and those were the soft-pedaled versions.

 

Also, I knew her before I knew her son; she was my boss and now we work together at the same company. So I did think we had a connection beyond my liaison with her son. She got all pushy and up in K's and my business, and now she can't handle it. If I were her I'd have stayed out of it from the get-go. I have the right to make whatever decision I chose in relation to her son, and I finally did what was right for me. She was pretty accusatory at times and I felt pushed in a corner.

 

I don't know. No one is a villain.

[tbf]

But that's just it. I was never dragging her into this. As I said, it never was comfortable for me to discuss the relationship with her and never initiated it. She made EVERY one-on-one meeting with her about my relationship with K and ways I can improve my part in the dynamics. The problem was, I never could really tell her how I saw the relationship, and so her advice was based on only some of the facts and of course those facts minimized her son's role.

When someone wants to discuss something that you're not comfortable discussing, it's up to you to tell them so. It's possible to do this in an assertive manner without being disrespectful. "While I respect and like you a lot, I'd rather not discuss K with you."

 

Why did she insert herself? I accepted it b/c I thought she could handle being in that position, which would mean accepting that both "sides" might have valid points. And yesterday she completely negated my views, and those were the soft-pedaled versions.

If she in the past, displayed consistent efforts to make suggestions of how to amend your behaviour, how has this changed? The only thing that's changed is the break up and your perception of her perspective.

 

Also, I knew her before I knew her son; she was my boss and now we work together at the same company. So I did think we had a connection beyond my liaison with her son. She got all pushy and up in K's and my business, and now she can't handle it. If I were her I'd have stayed out of it from the get-go. I have the right to make whatever decision I chose in relation to her son, and I finally did what was right for me. She was pretty accusatory at times and I felt pushed in a corner.

 

I don't know. No one is a villain.

Out of curiosity, how did the two of you manage to get together yesterday? Did she contact you or did you contact her?

[Zapbasket]

When someone wants to discuss something that you're not comfortable discussing, it's up to you to tell them so. It's possible to do this in an assertive manner without being disrespectful. "While I respect and like you a lot, I'd rather not discuss K with you."

 

You're exactly right. I went along because she's known at work to be a mother hen / soccer mom type, and that has good qualities (she cares) and bad (she can be intrusive and pushy). I felt that while her style is not at all like mine, her intent was good and true. So though it made me uncomfortable I just kind of laughed it off and dove in.

 

I just rode my bike fast and furious on a trail and it helped clear my head. I think yesterday was hard bc both of were trying to adjust to the reality that the end of my relationship with K changes the status quo with us, even if our fond feelings don't change. Last fall she said she already sees me as part of the family and there is a reason I came into their lives and she is glad I did. It won't be like that anymore, and perhaps I just flatter myself but maybe it's sad for her as it is sad for me. Maybe yesterday felt so sad and weird b/c of that

 

Out of curiosity, how did the two of you manage to get together yesterday? Did she contact you or did you contact her?

 

She contacted me and suggested a walk.

[tbf]

You're exactly right. I went along because she's known at work to be a mother hen / soccer mom type, and that has good qualities (she cares) and bad (she can be intrusive and pushy). I felt that while her style is not at all like mine, her intent was good and true. So though it made me uncomfortable I just kind of laughed it off and dove in.

 

I just rode my bike fast and furious on a trail and it helped clear my head. I think yesterday was hard bc both of were trying to adjust to the reality that the end of my relationship with K changes the status quo with us, even if our fond feelings don't change. Last fall she said she already sees me as part of the family and there is a reason I came into their lives and she is glad I did. It won't be like that anymore, and perhaps I just flatter myself but maybe it's sad for her as it is sad for me. Maybe yesterday felt so sad and weird b/c of that

As a guess, I'll bet she loves you too. But it won't change the fact that K's her son by blood, where you've only joined the family for less than three years.

 

If you wish to continue a relationship with her, I'd recommend that you not discuss K or your feelings about him. What might possibly be for the best, is to back away from a continued relationship with her for awhile until you've moved on and possibly found someone else, since anything you tell her will probably get back to K.

[Zapbasket]

I'm not totally sure what to say to this, but it occurs to me that perhaps the relationship w/ K's mom is also related to some FOO things of yours? Losing K's family seems almost worse for you than losing him; I wonder if your longing for a family like his (perhaps due to what you didn't get to have yourself?) might have (a) blinded you to red flag patterns or behaviors from K's mom or (b) led to you not realizing that the relationship w/ his mom would almost certainly be conditional on your relationship w/ K (despite what she may have said).

 

For sure, the relationship with K's mom relates directly to FOO things of mine. I do have a great longing for an intact, nice family that welcomes me and truly loves me for ME. I felt so at ease with K's family--seriously, it was just so easy, from K's mom, to K's stepdad, to his grandparents and siblings (all of them) to his nieces, even down to the family dogs, the littlest one practically peeing the floor and squealing every time she sees me. I felt so at home at K's mom's house that it didn't ever feel I was a guest, but that I was just relaxing at my own home. It was so easy, and then with K it was never easy.

 

That ease and welcome really meant a lot to me because so much wasn't going well for me here, and with them I felt they epitomized what I envisioned when I imagined the kind of people I would meet in Colorado before I moved here. People with ties to the land. Loving families. Good, caring, genuine people.

 

I know that because of FOO things, it is very important to me that the person I marry have a family in which I can feel at ease and feel welcomed. I could not handle a mother-in-law who openly disliked me, or tried to sabotage me or us in any way. Of course, a lot of it would depend on how my partner handled the situation, in terms of whether I could, indeed, deal with something like that.

 

K's family fit the bill for me in EVERY WAY. They weren't as educated as me or my family, but that became a non-issue by virtue of their intelligence, sense of humor and wit, and their strong work ethic (they're ranchers). This even had an added benefit of enabling me entrance into a world and way of life I previously had known nothing about.

 

So that's why, at least in part, I think, it was so hard for me to end things with K. until now. One part of this equation was ideal; the other, and most important part, I just couldn't see a long-term future with without major changes both in him, me, and our relationship dynamic. And especially when it seemed we couldn't work together to evolve this relationship into something more workable, there was no choice left but to end it. And even though it was the right thing to do, it hurts like hell--I find myself missing the parts of K I really did love, and I'm obviously sad about no longer being a de facto member of K's family--and in the grief I question whether I really did the right thing.

 

The FOO thing I worry most about is my inability to accept failure. I cannot give up on people; I cannot give up on things I start until they are finished even if getting it finished kills me. I have a hard time letting things go and trusting that the universe won't fall to pieces. I need to examine that, and work on that, I think.

[Zapbasket]

As a guess, I'll bet she loves you too. But it won't change the fact that K's her son by blood, where you've only joined the family for less than three years.

 

No, and I know that even though maybe right now I wish I didn't :(. I think I'm just experiencing the flood of consequences of finally making a decision for now about the relationship with K. It's so hard to say goodbye, even to a relationship that was so troubled.

 

If you wish to continue a relationship with her, I'd recommend that you not discuss K or your feelings about him.

 

You think so even if she initiates a discussion about K? Like maybe now I shouldn't go along with it and just gently say, "Unless there are more things that you feel need to be said, or something you want me to consider, I don't think we need to talk about this. Let's talk about other things for now"?

 

What might possibly be for the best, is to back away from a continued relationship with her for awhile until you've moved on and possibly found someone else, since anything you tell her will probably get back to K.

 

At the end of our walk yesterday, she said to call her in a couple of weeks and we'd take a walk, and she'd tell me if K's sister and the little girls came to town. My thought now is to not call her, at least not for a month or two. But if she calls me, I'll see her even if it's not 100% comfortable for me, just to see where things lead, and then deal with it from there. If she tells me the little girls are in town, and invites me to an event, I don't think I'd want to refuse to see the girls. But I don't think I'd want to be in the middle of some family event, either...and I'm not sure she'd invite me to one, now, just due to the changed situation. I agree that some time of no contact would be a good thing. If it's meant to be, something will eventually shake out, right? It's seems the only way to look at it.

[TaraMaiden]

I hate to be blunt, but NC with your ex, means NC with his family, too.

 

This is just prolonging the agony.

 

It's like amputating a limb that's gangrenous.

 

You're not going to take it off a little bit at a time - it has to all go - and go quickly.

 

Continuing a relationship with this woman - knowing what she's like, and how she's been towards you - is merely inviting more emotional manipulation.

You came to a wise conclusion, a few posts ago:

 

What's sad, and confusing, is that my gut tells me that the only way to move on and not end up in a bigger quagmire that makes me feel only worse is to cut them all off. Of course I can be nice about it, and say hi when I see one of them at City Market and such, and K's mom and I work for the same employer...but I need to walk away from the whole thing.

 

That's precisely what you must, absolutely, definitely do.

 

Don't stick around.

Otherwise, this just isn't NC, and you're merely twisting the knife.