Splitting Household Expenses for New Relationship

[Whadda you think?]

Am I expecting too much? How do I fix this?

 

For the past 4 months I have been dating a recently seperated mad. We immediately realized that we have many things in common and have found in eachother something that we never expected. I know how it sounds but it's true. This is it. We are forever.

 

Well, he was living at his parents house after the seperation (he is 32 and I am 29) while he was getting everything sorted out with his ex wife. After 2 months of him drving all over to see me, he moved in. We had the talk that he was still finacially obligated, fully, to his family (ex wife and daughter) at least until they agreed on a financial seperation. I told him that I had no problems with him being at my house and not contributing right now because of his financial status at the time.

 

As of last week, they have agreed on the child support amount and everything is now seperate. Soooo I bring up the topic of him paying his portion of the household expenses. (FYI: he had been paying for half of the grogeries up until this point and makes just about twice as much money as I do) He seemed a little surprised that I brought the subject up. Honestly I have been feeling resentful up until now that his funds pay for a house and car that he doesn't use BUT I knew that it would be this way until they agreed on a seperation. We have not sat down and done out any figures yet but I firmly believe that he should be paying half of the mortgage and half of the household utilities. (Understand that my entire mortgage payment is $740/mo so we're not talking about a huge amount, here) Do you think that I am expecting too much. Really, I don't think so. It's not like I am trying to get rich here and I also do all of the cooking, cleaning and laundry.... Also keep in mind that I agree that he needs to pay child support and I have had no problems with him ringing his 2 year old daughter to the house every other weekend. I'm not gripling over the child support or custody. None of that! It's just that I NEED things to be fair and even, financially for us.

 

We are expecting to have the talk very soon so I just wanted your advice on this.

 

If I made more money this probably wouldn't be an issue just yet but I am slowly starting to resent the fact that I am paying for our entire living situation and I do NOT want our wonderful relationship to fall apart because of resentment.

 

Anyways, thanks a ton for any input you might have.

 

Karen

[Moose]

First off, money will ruin your relationship and if it's already an issue, you're in big trouble!!!

 

Haven't you been paying for everything before you even met him? I'd guess that would be a yes......have you noticed larger utility bills, phone bills, gas bills since he moved in? I'd guess no. I'd have to guess that the only extra expense in your house has been the groceries.

 

Personally, I would have to say that you're being very materialistic and the surprise coming from him is perfectly understandable. If he's any kind of gentleman, ( Which I don't have a clue if he is or not ), he's already thought about this situation and he'll step up to the plate in due time.

 

With his daughter living in that house, and using the heat, car and everything else that goes with it, you shouldn't feel any resentment that he's providing for her.....you should feel honorable towards him.

 

If you go into this relationship believing that you two should be fair and equal financially.....you're setting yourself up for failure. There shouldn't be a score card between you two when it comes to money.....plain and simple. In a relationship, a healthy relationship, what's hers is mine and what's mine is hers. PERIOD.

 

He will get his chance to pay his part...don't rush him. The first 5 years of our marriage was rough when it came to money, it was the subject of 90% of our fights, it almost ruined our relationship. After we both agreed that money wasn't going to come between us, things took a huge turn.

 

Another thing, you mentioned that you do all the laundry, cooking, cleaning....and you said you're not trying to get rich here......what this tells me is that this isn't just about the money.....you feel like you're doing more than your fair share and you're crying about it....well stop it!! If you plan on getting serious with this man, the first thing you'll have to realize is that you'll always feel like you're doing more than you should.

 

A relationship takes 100% of both party's efforts. The sooner your realize this, the better off you'll be.

 

Sorry for being such a jerk....but that's my opinion.

[tiki]

My fiance and I are getting married in December. He has an apartment of his own though. His rent is HALF my mortgage. My mortgage is almost $1100.00 a month. I have joint custody of my son, so I have to provide a decent home for him no matter what, no matter WHO lives there. My fiance stays the nights on the nights that my son is not there. He has a daughter of his own. They reside in his apartment when she is with him. But they spend all their time at my house. I pay the mortgage anyway, pay the water, pay the electric. My grocery bill IS higher, he pitches in. He's fair. But so am I. He buys dinner for the fam, provides well for other needs too. He doesn't flinch to pay half (or the entire amount) of the grocery bill. But I do keep in mind, he's got finances all his own, until we wed anyway. And he doesn't officially "live" there.

 

I'd recommend to you that you sit down and have a serious heart to heart with him. What is he contributing to the household? What is he gaining? Does he help around the house, do yardwork, his fair share of chores? Or are you a host to a leach? Could he leave tomorrow and you be out of a bunch of hospitality services? This ain't no f*cking hotel. This is a home. Contribute or get out. This is life, not a freakin charity case, ya know? In other words, what has he done for you lately?!

[flavius]

The writing is painted on the wall in ten-foot letters. But you are so busy analyzing the brush strokes that you aren't reading the message.

 

(Moose, with antlers that big it's a miracle you ever got your head so far up your butt. Were you being serious??)

[WTF?]

A relationship takes 100% of both party's efforts. The sooner your realize this, the better off you'll be.

 

My point exactly. Did you not read what I wrote? I make half of what he does and he is living in my house and I am supposed to just suck it up and just be happy to have him?

 

I understand that he has had other things on his mind thus far but now that his finances are settled, he really should be paying for half of the living expenses. I share my house equally with him, he should share the bills in the same way? I don't think that I am being unfair. Would he not have to pay for an apartment and his own utilities?

 

If you go into this relationship believing that you two should be fair and equal financially.....you're setting yourself up for failure.

Personally, I don't know any real men who would find my situation acceptable for any longer than absolutely necessary. We agreed in the begining that I would handle the expenses until he got settled. Now he is settled. Again, you state it takes 100% on both sides but you are also saying that me expecting 100% is wrong. Hmmm.

 

So basically if he wrote a post saying..."I have been living with a woman for 2 months and my daughter has also spent alot of time at her house but I have yet to contribute financially. I am now fiancially stable. Should I start being an equal partner in household expenses? what would you tell him?

 

 

 

K

[Moose]

Getting a little personal there aren't you flavius?

 

What do you mean anyway? Do you think this post is a joke? I think it's a valid problem that many couples have....or, are you calling my post a joke?

[250r]

I'm in a similar situation right now and she is paying half of almost everything - mortgage, utilities, groceries, general supplies etc. I think it is fair and so does she. I don't think that you should bear 100% of the financial responsibility in a "live-in" relationship. I would be understanding if he can't afford 50% but 0% would not be an option for me.

[Moose]

I didn't say that he shouldn't pay anything at all people!!! I'm sure he will and they will work out what is fair.....I'm saying to be cautious about being so materialistic and don't make money such a huge issue. I believe in fairness too.

 

It's only been a week since the settlement, don't get into such a friggin' hurry.

[EnigmaXOXO]

When my partner moved into my home, it was agreed upon that it was only fair that he contribute equally to his living expenses. Not only does the grocery bill go up when a second person moves in…especially a GUY…but so do the utilities.

 

My partner and I split the grocery bill and all the utilities right down the middle. That included electric, phone, water, cable, trash removal, etc. HOWEVER, I did not ask him to split my mortgage or property taxes simply because the house was in my name and I would have been paying that amount with or without a housemate anyway.

 

Our arrangement went on that way for almost two years. It was a "trial" period to see if we had what it took as a couple to make a long-term go of our relationship. By that time my partner had put a lot of sweat equity into my home helping me with all my remodeling and upgrades. We discovered we worked great as a team. While I did all the domestic stuff…like the cooking and cleaning (when I felt like it ) my partner took care of the more manly chores…like mowing the lawn and making repairs.

 

Eventually I made the decision to sell him half my home. He needed the tax break since he had sold his own condo and now had no deductibles and was making three times as much as me. He now pays mortgage on his half of the equity and we split the property taxes right down the middle. Although we file separately, we are BOTH allowed to claim the deduction on our income taxes and it works out GREAT! I also did not have to pay any capital gains tax since I was still residing in the home.

 

Meanwhile, the money I received from selling him half the equity remains in a money market account accumulating interest. This way…if G-d forbid…anything should happen sometime down the road, I would be able to buy his half right back out and the house would again be mine. No one loses anything. Well---at least that's the safest plan we could come up with. The alternative would be to sell the home and split the profits 50/50.

 

We also have a "right of survivorship" clause written up in the contract. That means if something should happen to one of us, the other would automatically inherit the home rather then the equity being distributed to the closest surviving relative of the deceased. Without this clause, my partner might find my daughter owning half his house, and it could get rather ugly and complicated otherwise.

 

That's just the way we decided to work things out fairly. It took sitting down and openly discussing our concerns, looking into each and every possible option, gathering information, and coming up with a plan that was mutually beneficial. I don't know if sharing that helps you in any way, but maybe it will give you a better idea of what some of your options might be.

 

Either way…your partner shouldn't expect a "free ride" nor should your love for him make you feel obliged to shoulder the burden of his past financial obligations.

 

Good Luck!

[Adunaphel]

Well, expecting him to pay *half* the mortgage to me seems too much -the house will be in your name. But if you were on a rent, he should pay half of it.

And he should pay for half of the house expenses(mortgage excluded), bills and groceries.

 

Thought I'd also add that if I lived with someone and paid half of the rent/ mortgage, I'd expect to split room equally.

 

That is, I would want as much space for my things(clothes, personal belongings, etc) as my partner has for his, even if I was the one who moved in.

 

And I'd expect to have a say about any decison concerning the house (like, painting the house, rearranging the kitchen furniture, etc. ).

[tiki]

Great points Adunaphel. Valid. My fiance has no nothing at my house....lol...no closet space, drawers, nothing. It'll be different when he moves in though. Wait, I have to give up closet space?!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Wait, I have to give up closet space?!

 

LOL…There's no truer sign of "love" than when a woman gives you half her closet space. And if you get three drawers out of the deal as well…you're just as good as married!

[tiki]

Originally posted by EnigmaXOXO

LOL…There's no truer sign of "love" than when a woman gives you half her closet space.

 

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullsh*t! My closet. ARGH!

[250r]

Enigmaxoxo - curoius how you went about "selling" half the equity of your home? I would much rather do that than ask for a prenup. You probably only get to deduct half the loan interest then huh? You got out of capitol gains taxes, wow!

[SoleMate]

Whadda you think asked what we all thought was fair. I think it would be fair for both parties to sit down and talk honestly about how they share expenses and chores. There is no single formular for how to do this - it depends on everyone's individual situation: own or rent, kids or not, how much each earns, how much housework and childcare each person does, commutes, elderly relations, sick pets needing constant care, credit ratings. So DON'T go looking for somebody's list of how things should be divided. The only constant is that there must be an explicit agreement, and each person must feel that they can live comfortably with what was agreed. Oh, and they have to live up to their agreement.

 

It would also be good to talk about what happens if someone loses a job - or gets a big raise - or spends more time away from home - or something else happens to upset the equilibrium.

 

These discussions can sometimes be awkward, but if you can't talk this out as a couple, you should not be sharing living quarters.

 

I would not expect someone to pay my mortgage unless he was also building equity in my house. Maybe you could have him make half the interest payment, and you pay the other half plus all the principal. Or, you could just charge him straight rent, but it would be less than half the mortgage, based on market rates.

 

Also...is this just a temporary thing (you've only known him four months), or are you saying you are now a bonded unit and will function as a committed couple? If the former, then I would make darn sure to avoid subsidizing him or giving him any rights or control over my property. If the latter, why not get married?

[flavius]

Moose, I'm sorry. I'll say anything for a laugh. I've read your stuff and I think you're cool.

 

My point is just that this whole situation, a guy barely separated, not yet divorced, already moved in, and people are suggesting she pay his rent and maybe even put his name on the damned mortgage??

 

Has it not occurred to anybody that this whole situation is the most extreme example of unwise decision making imagineable?? What a perfect recipe for getting pissed on!

 

I am dumbfounded that of all the posts on this thread I am the only one to suggest this.

 

Wow

[tiki]

Originally posted by flavius

What a perfect recipe for getting pissed on!

 

Hey, watch it! I happen to like that tactic.

[Moose]

Originally posted by flavius

Moose, I'm sorry. I'll say anything for a laugh. I've read your stuff and I think you're cool.

 

My point is just that this whole situation, a guy barely separated, not yet divorced, already moved in, and people are suggesting she pay his rent and maybe even put his name on the damned mortgage??

 

Has it not occurred to anybody that this whole situation is the most extreme example of unwise decision making imagineable?? What a perfect recipe for getting pissed on!

 

I am dumbfounded that of all the posts on this thread I am the only one to suggest this.

 

Wow

 

I see what you mean, but at the same time, he's got to get into the swing of things too. Don't you think?

 

Oh, and you don't have to apoligize.....I was just saying that the antlers up my ass was a little personal....funny though!!!

[Karen75]

Has it not occurred to anybody that this whole situation is the most extreme example of unwise decision making imagineable?? What a perfect recipe for getting pissed on!

 

What are you referring to? No one asked for a judgement on their relationship, how long they've been together or anything else for that matter.

 

Let's make it simple for all you hard heads...

 

2 people live together. They plan on being together forever but are not ready for marriage quite yet. How should household expenses be split?

[EnigmaXOXO]

Enigmaxoxo - curoius how you went about "selling" half the equity of your home? I would much rather do that than ask for a prenup. You probably only get to deduct half the loan interest then huh? You got out of capitol gains taxes, wow!

 

My partner claims the full amount of interest on his loan. It is in HIS name only. My half of the equity is already paid in full with the exception of a small Home Equity Line of Credit. HOWEVER…if something should happen to him before the loan was paid off, I would be responsible for covering that portion or the bank may put a lean against my house. That is why I keep the funds from the sale of half my home in an account (as a cushion just in case.) In addition, I have made my partner beneficiary of that account should something happen to "me." This protects HIM. Also, my partner acquired a life insurance policy to cover me in the event that something should happen to him. Once his loan is paid off in full, he will cancel the policy since it will no longer be needed.

 

I think we did the very best we possibly could for each other to make sure all the bases are covered.

 

There's a wonderful publication entitled: Living Together: A Legal Guide for Unmarried Couples (Living Together)

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873379772/qid=1097596159/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-3426862-5132866?v=glance&books

 

It's a great resource of valuable information I would highly recommend. We consulted a real estate attorney to confirm the information we unearthed, and to our delight, everything checked out and was on the up-and-up. Even our attorney was surprised that we had done our financial homework. He said that most couples rarely bother to investigate their options concerning joint property ownership, wills, insurance, taxes, etc. Most folks enter into such arrangements without ever considering the potential financial repercussions.

 

Materialistic or not…while both my partner and I are willing to put our hearts on the line for the sake of love, neither of us would do well sharing a park bench with the pigeons if it drove us to financial ruin. Steal my heart…but don't steal my wallet!

 

Of course, you mentioned a "prenup"…which means you are considering marriage?? I'm not sure how that would factor into things. Once legally married, joint property is already factored in. Of course, anything you owned PRIOR to being married (from what I understand) remains YOUR property unless your spouse's name is placed on the title. Laws vary from state to state, however, so it would be prudent to check the common wife laws for your state. My state does not recognize "common law" marriages, so we're lucky in that regard.

[Moose]

We aren't hard headed......lady.......directed to Karen.

 

NO DUH!!! I'm not going to re hash everything, this person is being materialistic towards this guy, and she feels she's doing more than her fair share. I'm saying that he JUST got the settlement with his first wife and family.....give him some time and he'll pay his way.......GEEEEEEZZZZZ!!!

[Karen75]

Originally posted by Moose

... this person is being materialistic towards this guy, and she feels she's doing more than her fair share. I'm saying that he JUST got the settlement with his first wife and family.....give him some time and he'll pay his way.......GEEEEEEZZZZZ!!!

 

Did you miss the part where she said he is not currently paying ANYTHING and has not been for the past 2 months? Doesn't that make it pretty OBVIOUS that she is doing more than her share?

 

I believe she was asking the question of when and how she should go about it settling this issue . Also, how long should SHE be required to pay for everything because HIS marriage didn't work out? He is now financially stable and ABLE to pay his fair share of expenses so why should she just 'give him time'? She gave him 2 months, without a mention of money, to get his stuff sorted out.

 

What happened to your opinion of both giving 100%? She has already accepted the fact that she will now and forever have to deal with an ex-wife and a child. Should she also have to accept the financial burden as well?

 

My point? You can express your opinion without bludgeoning someone into seeing your point of view. This topic seems to have touched nerve with you....

 

Karen

[Moose]

Did you miss the part where she said he is not currently paying ANYTHING and has not been for the past 2 months? Doesn't that make it pretty OBVIOUS that she is doing more than her share?

 

He's paying for his share of the groceries. You say he's not paying ANYTHING, well he is. Yes, she has been doing more than her fair share, BUT at her own will during this time of figuring out what he's going to have to pay his soon to be ex.

 

I believe she was asking the question of when and how she should go about it settling this issue . Also, how long should SHE be required to pay for everything because HIS marriage didn't work out? He is now financially stable and ABLE to pay his fair share of expenses so why should she just 'give him time'? She gave him 2 months, without a mention of money, to get his stuff sorted out.

 

And I believe I answered that with, he'll get to it, when he gets to it. She's not paying any more having him there, maybe very, VERY little.....it's only been ONE FRIGGIN' week since the settlement.....GEEEEZ!!!!

 

What happened to your opinion of both giving 100%? She has already accepted the fact that she will now and forever have to deal with an ex-wife and a child. Should she also have to accept the financial burden as well?

 

I stand by that belief. Understand, I agree in fairness and I agree the responsibilities have to be divided among them......he will get to it I'm sure. Again, it's only been one week. I'm sure he's not going to turn out to be a free loader, and if he does, I expect that she'll not put up with it.

 

My point? You can express your opinion without bludgeoning someone into seeing your point of view. This topic seems to have touched nerve with you....

 

It didn't hit any nerve with me. And I wasn't the one getting, bludgeonet, whatever you want to call it. MY POINT is that if money is already an issue with her, it will always be an issue. Give the guy some time to get comfortable with the new arrangement between him and his soon to be ex. I'm sure he'll more than make up for it. Incidently, if the roles where reversed and it was her moving in with him.......this wouldn't of even came up in LS for advice.

[Karen75]

Originally posted by Moose

Incidently, if the roles where reversed and it was her moving in with him.......this wouldn't of even came up in LS for advice.

 

Honestly, I am NOT trying to get into a pissing match with you, Moose, but I believe the topic would have come up even if the roles were reversed. At least that is what I believe. Being that I am a very independent person and believe that people should take care of themselves.....

 

In the grand scheme of things, 2 months (or more) is not a great deal of time for her to just be supportive and let him adjust BUT, speaking as a person who has been in a similar situation, it is hard enough dealing with someone elses baggage, never mind giving up your solitude and privacy to let someone else share your home.... It's not fun to think about mixing business with pleasure but a serious relationship (that includes living together) is essentially a business arrangement as well. As unromantic as that sounds, it's true.

 

Karen

[Moose]

Karen,

 

I agree and see your point. I know you weren't trying to start anything.....I get that alot.

 

Call me old fashioned, but I believe in a relationship that the man provides, souly for the woman. I know that many don't share my beliefs and that's ok. I think that in this situation it won't hurt to let it slide until he gets his ducks in a row.

 

I definitley don't think she should let him live there scott free forever....

 

Money is such and evil thing. It'll destroy you. We are well to be and brag that if we lost everything we would still be happy. But lately, even I have questioned myself what I'm willing to give up. I shifted some funds into my sons nest egg so he'll earn more interest to pay for his first car in January and low and behold, it started a fight with Mrs. Moose. So I'm just trying to tell this poster that it's a deicate subject and to tread lightly on it. I'm sure he'll come around on it.