SweetiePie12 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't think any BW would ever really "turn a blind eye." I do! I read about someone who simply didn't want to appear a "failure" & have to return to her home town. How pathetic! Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I do! I read about someone who simply didn't want to appear a "failure" & have to return to her home town. How pathetic! really? More pathetic than....oh, never mind.... 8 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Originally Posted by LilGirlandOW How is it that MM pull it off so easily? OK so maybe not easily, but wow if I were in a real relationship and my man spent every night for hours secretly texting, "working late", disappearing, etc, etc. I would even before being the OW obviously know that somethings going on... Because many MM are very good and skilled liars to keep their affairs under wraps. And, why should his wife mistrust or doubt him if their marriage is good? Edited June 15, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
krazikat Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 My ex-MM was spending nights away, sometimes with no warning. Sleeping in his car or the office sometimes etc etc. Home one weekend a month after being home all weekends, and so on. I know those things for a fact. And that's just one facet of how he behaved. I don't consider that normal or acceptable for any couple, regardless of how much love/trust there is or how good a liar the WS is. I know what you're saying, and it's all points on a spectrum, but I think SOME betrayed spouses definitely are happy (or willing) to be a part of that dynamic. My husband was home every night with me. We were very affectionate and he was always touching me, kissing me, holding me, telling me he loved me multiple times a day, complaining that I didnt spend enough time with him, etc. I found out on dday he had spent the night with the ow, several times in fact. She thought he was choosing her over me...when in fact he only stayed the night with her when I was on business trips...and he would be on the phone with me, telling me he loved me, missed me, that he smelled my perfume because it reminded him of me... then he would go and f***k her. The fact is, the ow has absolutely no idea what is really going on in the marriage. In my case, when dday happened, ow was dropped like a bad habit. Well, I suppose, in a way, she was a bad habit. She was horrible dday and after, said all kinds of crazy things as if she was certain she could get him back. I find it all extremely sad, very heart breaking. I believe she was truly in love with him. But she knew he was married. She took that gamble, and it didnt work out for her. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) So its estabished that I'm an OW... How is it that MM pull it off so easily? OK so maybe not easily, but wow if I were in a real relationship and my man spent every night for hours secretly texting, "working late", Why do BS's either not know or stick around? If a BS isnt in fear of her WS, like he/she isnt abusive, why does the BS not see the obviously and constant red flags? and if they do why the hell do they put up with it? It baffles me how grown women/men just turn a blind eye, wow. My MM's BS is a very independent and confident woman, but obviously blind or something. Thoughts? How do MM pull of the texting and sexting so easily? Many WS text and sext while in the "bathroom" or pretend it's Bob from work and right there on screen it says Bob but it's really Barbara or...you catch my drift. Most people sleep at night and many WS's figured that out and wait until their spouse has gone to bed. Geez everyone seems to be texting at all times, just look around you, people are texting constantly everywhere, it's rare to not see most people constantly on their cell, all they all cheating? As for you being baffled on how grown women/men just a blind eye..wow. The betrayed spouse doesn't know their spouse is cheating but the OW/OM does know this, and that's the ultimate blind eye...wow. I think this whole theory of yours is full of holes. If you believe the betrayed is dumb or blind or clueless, why not give her the truth instead of these mental gymnastics in trying to figure out how stupid she must be. But I assume that you and your MM go to a great deal of effort to keep her in the dark. It's sad that affair partners purposely keep the affair secret and then behind the betrayed spouse's back belittle her and assume she's dumb and blind. I think that's pretty sick. Edited June 15, 2013 by Furious 9 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I don't think BS' ignore the signs or miss them because they are neglectful or stupid. I believe that what happens is 1. they assume everything is okay and that if their spouse had an issue, he/she will bring it up. So they go about the business of daily life and only notice the signs when things have gone too far. 2. WS' in As treat their BS' much better. Whether it is because of guilt or in order to avoid suspicion, life at home is pretty comfortable for the BS until d-day. 3. A BS may be dealing with some serious problems such as a sick relative, work issues, things that take away his/her focus from the R. He/she won't notice the signs because they aren't looking for them. Usually with women, a BW will know intuitively that something is up. I can't explain what triggered my intuition but I know that it would suddenly kick in prompting me to check if xH was fooling around again. Well said, F-N.. Your posts are always filled with great insight...Just wanted to say that..Keep it up. TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sure Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Working late, business travels, and long lunches were a part if both mine and my X's lives. People are busy. My only red flag was a feeling that something was...off. Not wrong, just not quite right. That's not the kind of feeling I jump all over, I initially assumed it was me. That's how infidelity damages a person. I became confused. And then of course, he went to great effort to convince me it was me . Gaslighting. It's a special skill. Thats how they get away with it. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 It baffles me how grown women/men just turn a blind eye, wow. Thoughts? Love, I used to ask this very question, and now I find that I turned a blind eye towards many things. I can't believe what has been let go in my life, and the things that I allowed to take place. The only thing I can say is (from experience) that the human psyche "stores" certain experiences and knowledge that it can't handle at the time. Sometimes it surfaces, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes issues are addressed and sometimes it's left for a much later date. Ok, politically speaking, look at the state of things. Look at how many things went absolutely unnoticed by a good portion of any given nations people that is now in some sort of trouble. These things took years to go bad... Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 simple answer... she likely loves him, trusts him and is an honest person. when you are an honest person yourself, you will often assume that others, especially those who you love and trust, are honest as well. Unlike you, she probably has zero evidence that he is lying to her, and if she does see something, he could be "gaslighting" her... example...he's been moody lately, and she wonders what's wrong so she asks him...maybe he snaps back with " nothing" or maybe he says " nothing's wrong with me,what's wrong with you...why are you always asking me that...why are you so suspicious...leave me alone" . She's thrown off balance by the outburst and starts to feel guilty, like there's something wrong with her for not trusting him ( eve though she does and just thought maybe there was some stress form work or something)... This goes on for a while, she gets more worn down and feels guilty for not trusting him..she stops seeing what's right in front of her... This is really common...it's the part of the affair that other women/men don't see...the dynamic between the husband and wife... they see the married person acting one way, and assume they are like that all the time, when in fact, they are not i am putting this on repeat because it is so true....everything said so succinct so i will take a flag ...i agree with every word...every single one........deb 5 Link to post Share on other sites
HonestNeurotic Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 BS's probably knows that something's wrong. And sincerely - how do you know he is not lying to you? This story is heard here time and again. There is a dday - the MM cuts all contact and everything he said about the future with OW was all just a lie. Of course - that's the simplified version. But an effective liar is - well - an effective liar. There is no real need to be truthful. But most BS's DO KNOW that something is wrong. They might not know it is an affair - they don't turn a blind eye to it. They investigate. Almost all of the BS's will tell you that they knew something was wrong. Maybe they were blindsided - they thought it was work or something else - but they know that something is wrong. Maybe it looks like they are turning a blind eye. They aren't. They just can't see what the problem actually is - an OW. They had absolute trust in another person, and maybe let stuff go that to an OW they don't understand that. It's because the OW KNOWS that the man is a liar. Very busy executive men can take time away from work - never changing the routine at home. They're probably salaried - so hours worked are not reflected in a paycheck or anything. So they stop working so late to make time for OW. But BS is USED to their WS working late. They are constantly hooked up to their phones and ipads and laptops for work - so it's pretty easy to slide a few texts or emails even sitting next to their wives. There are some people that do turn a blind eye. Some that don't even want to know. But I really don't think that is the normal state for the BS. Go and read a few peoples stories here where there was an OOW! The OW was sure she was the only one. See - the BS - the OW - no one ever really gets the entire truth. You will never really know for sure. Just as you are sure that MM won't lie to you, you already know that he's lying easily to someone that he's probably known longer than you, and who knows him much better than you, and he's getting away with it. So it's not that hard for him to lie to the OW. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I know that when H was having the A he was a pain the in the butt, was moody, picky and I truly thought his brain had been sucked out of his ears by space aliens. I asked, repeatedly what was wrong, got told work was stressy, as he was back and fro to Iraq I could understand that. he didn't want to talk, go to MC or leave, I asked if he wanted to leave, said that I would make it easy for him, told him that I loved him but his behaviour wasn't what I needed or deserved. I had gone through chemo, waiting for the all clear, or not. Was working my absolute butt off for us and our plans for our future, keeping the house and our life together while he was away during the week. My life couldn't have got any crazier. I asked if there was anyone else, if he wanted to leave, if I made him unhappy. The answers to all these questions were no. I was told I was loved, we held hands, kissed, flirted, planned and loved, despite all the crap. During the week he was able to text as I wasn't there, at weekends he text from the bathroom, which is ironic as it is a standing joke with us that neither of us text or speak on the phone while the other is in the bathroom. The OW was down as a male name, I in my naivety hadn't realised how common this is. He was able to 'get away' with it simply because he gave perfectly good reasons for how he was feeling, even though it was unacceptable, but marriage is like that, you take the rough with the smooth. I believed him, trusted him, simply because he had done nothing to make me think he was a liar or could or would cheat, we had always said we would tell first if we wanted out or another. We sat on benches smooching, went to the cinema and hand held, we were the couple everyone said they wanted to be like - so not only I was blindsided, one of my friends said hearing about H's A was like watching the sad scene in Bambi. If a WS gets away with an A, then you can be sure that the intimate side of life is still happening, had that stopped I would have cottoned on in a heartbeat. We believe because we have no reason not to. I am glad that we still handhold on our bench. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 My husband was home every night with me. We were very affectionate and he was always touching me, kissing me, holding me, telling me he loved me multiple times a day, complaining that I didnt spend enough time with him, etc. I found out on dday he had spent the night with the ow, several times in fact. She thought he was choosing her over me...when in fact he only stayed the night with her when I was on business trips...and he would be on the phone with me, telling me he loved me, missed me, that he smelled my perfume because it reminded him of me... then he would go and f***k her. The fact is, the ow has absolutely no idea what is really going on in the marriage. In my case, when dday happened, ow was dropped like a bad habit. Well, I suppose, in a way, she was a bad habit. She was horrible dday and after, said all kinds of crazy things as if she was certain she could get him back. I find it all extremely sad, very heart breaking. I believe she was truly in love with him. But she knew he was married. She took that gamble, and it didnt work out for her. It was easier for your H to hide it. But what I'm saying is if my SO behaved towards me the way exMM behaved towards his wife, it simply wouldn't be sustainable. And it isn't true that 'the OW has no clue what is really going on'. Your OW didn't. Because your H wasn't honest with the OW and was keeping his communications with you a secret from her. That's not always how it goes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
C00kie Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) I think there are no wrong or right answers here. They all have a good point; some may fit in your situation, some may not. In my case, the MM behaviour would make it impossible for her not to suspect something. Sometimes he would leave for weeks and no calls to or from her (he wouldn't even take his cel). So even if he was loving around her, that behaviour alone would be a HUGE RED FLAG to me. No way I'd put up with my husband leaving home for weeks and not letting me know anything during that time. There's no good excuse enough for that. So yes, in my case she turned a blind eye. Whether that or she's plain stupid. I believe the first option more. She played to keep him. Simple as that. Edited June 15, 2013 by C00kie Link to post Share on other sites
C00kie Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I'm just waiting for a BS to come post that she knew about the A but turned a blind eye. The kind of people who turn a blind eye even when things are obvious (and sometimes they are) are not the kind of people who face their problems and issues. Are not the kind of people who visit forums that would make them face their flaws and their beloved ones flaws. They just pretend it's nothing. Plus, they don't have a good enough insight to acknowledge it, let alone admit it. That's why no BS will come here to say she turned a blind eye. Yet, they do exist. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 COOkie wrote, " The kind of people who turn a blind eye even when things are obvious (and sometimes they are) are not the kind of people who face their problems and issues." I kind of liken it to an OW/OM turning a blind eye to the fact they are engaging in an A w/a MM/MW... I mean the signs are all there. M lisence. Texting spouse. Calling spouse. Making love w/spouse. Children w/spouse. Financial support and/or contribution to M . Sharing Home w/spouse. Intertwined families by M. And yet, the AP turns a blind eye and continues on for whatever reason/s given. Maybe because they Love the MM/MW and Trust what they Say and do? Maybe because they DO know the deceit of their A and they're cool w/it? Someone wrote not all M are relationships... Well, Not ONE A is a Marriage. LilgirlOW, I'm hoping that by mirroring your questions/comments, you can see the different perspective and that MOST of us don't "turn a blind eye" , we just don't immediately assume our spouses are Cheating. I mean, why in holy heaven would we?!?! We are MARRIED for heaven's sake. That would mean our spouses are ""Off Th e Market", to me that means Other Women don't mess w/my H and He doesn't mess w/OW. It wasn't even on my radar because it is so, so, so, so So Wrong. * 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 on topic posts please, if you don't understand what the topic is then re-read the thread starters first post. Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Goodbye Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Doesn't it scare all of you that you had NO idea? That your H's were happy and romantic with you? Doesn't it make you feel like he is a sociopath? My exMM was a masterful liar and I suspect now that he kept up his lovey homefront all the while being very loving, romantic, needy and clingy with me. From his behavior, I absolutely believed him when he claimed he was divorcing and his life with W was over...non-sexual. I think I'd have preferred to see the clues. It would make him seem more human. It would be less scary in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Doesn't it scare all of you that you had NO idea? That your H's were happy and romantic with you? Doesn't it make you feel like he is a sociopath? My exMM was a masterful liar and I suspect now that he kept up his lovey homefront all the while being very loving, romantic, needy and clingy with me. From his behavior, I absolutely believed him when he claimed he was divorcing and his life with W was over...non-sexual. I think I'd have preferred to see the clues. It would make him seem more human. It would be less scary in the end. I don't think sociopath is the right word, but obviously most WS have to lie very effectively, day in and day out, often for months, sometimes for years. The better they are at lying and deception, the more likely the affair will not be found out. Which is the point of this thread. Without the WS being able to lie and deceive, directly, indirectly, whatever, the affair would not remain unknown to the BS. As to your point about BS being scared: if the WS are going to sustain an honest R sometime in the future, they have to change. Some may have been honest and open in the past, and something broke or changed them to become a WS, and they can heal again. I think any BS who did not see their WS noticeably change, would be scared, as you say. But on LS, one sees examples of WS that changed considerably after d-day. The change between posts by WS right near d-day and some time after d-day can be remarkable. It can seem almost like 2 people, but that shows the human ability for learning and change. And that is a positive! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Goodbye Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I don't think sociopath is the right word, but obviously most WS have to lie very effectively, day in and day out, often for months, sometimes for years. The better they are at lying and deception, the more likely the affair will not be found out. Which is the point of this thread. Without the WS being able to lie and deceive, directly, indirectly, whatever, the affair would not remain unknown to the BS. As to your point about BS being scared: if the WS are going to sustain an honest R sometime in the future, they have to change. Some may have been honest and open in the past, and something broke or changed them to become a WS, and they can heal again. I think any BS who did not see their WS noticeably change, would be scared, as you say. But on LS, one sees examples of WS that changed considerably after d-day. The change between posts by WS right near d-day and some time after d-day can be remarkable. It can seem almost like 2 people, but that shows the human ability for learning and change. And that is a positive! Yes, I should have used quotation marks around the word sociopath. I don't truly believe these men are classic sociopaths capable of murdering and hiding bodies. More so I meant that they can LIE, LIE, LIE...even to those they love very much, and the only motivation they truly have is to NOT get caught. Hurting others is less of a concern than getting caught. Link to post Share on other sites
Author LilGirlandOW Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 yeah i guess they're good liars.. I'm a terrible liar, guess thats why i couldnt ever cheat in any R, even the A. Thanks for all the honest answers. I ran into my MM, BS today, in passing, I even find it hard to look at her, not out of guilt just jealousy, wow i need things to change... I just keep seeing this woman, and its tough! Link to post Share on other sites
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