Not every OW is 'waiting'

[Silly_Girl]

Obviously, as in retaining lawyers and bringing me into his IC's office to reassure me. I'm the one who needs to be convinced, I'm not twisting his arm or forcing a time table.

 

Those that push a MM/WH off the fence only get a confused, messed up man. I'd rather let him stew in the mess he chose under those circumstances until he figures out what he really wants. Fence-pushing only throws a man on his azz. He's too dumbfounded to think. Fence pushers crack me up every time.

 

I don't agree, WF. Depends on what you're looking for. I shoved my xMM because I was not prepared to live indefinitely with the status quo. I was at a point where, whether I shoved and lost him completely, or shoved and he moved out and was with me, I won either way. In the long run anyway. Really different situations.

[xxoo]

I'd rather let him stew in the mess he chose under those circumstances until he figures out what he really wants. Fence-pushing only throws a man on his azz. He's too dumbfounded to think. Fence pushers crack me up every time.

 

If it were me, I'd be out of the picture entirely until he couldn't even see the fence anymore. No pushing; just disappearance.

 

Why can't he get single, get a place of his own, get established as a single man, and then proposition you? Where is his respect for you?

[ComingInHot]

Whiteflower wrote, " ne who needs to be convinced, I'm not twisting his arm or forcing a time table.

 

Those that push a MM/WH off the fence only get a confused, messed up man. I'd rather let him stew in the mess he chose under those circumstances until he figures out what he really wants. Fence-pushing only throws a man on his azz. He's too dumbfounded to think. Fence pushers crack me up every time."

 

No fence pushing OR sitting here**

I kicked him out. Told him it's his mess. Then said Do NOT try to bring your mess back here. Fix it. Go. Be w/her. No fighting. No custody battle. Just Go.

 

He Never went to her although she begged him too.

He didn't come home until he could prove he KNEW what he wanted & where he wanted to be.

 

Four or so weeks and he Showed me (so did exOW*) what he truly wanted.

 

I think by My Not Waiting, it actually Did move things along quickly.

 

I don't know how you find the strength to do all you have done and continue to do White flower. Seven + years is just well, it sounds exhausting to me. You are a better friend to people than I!

I absolutely believe in standing by those I love, but being hurt over & over by them, Not so much... Sometimes that whole "tough love" thing Does work rather than a long torcherous back/forth & push/pull relationship.

At least, for me*

 

So good for you, if you feel you are Not "waiting" and you're just being a (REALLY) good friend, you Will have your harmonious future w/or w/out MM *

Edited June 24, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MissBee]

If it were me, I'd be out of the picture entirely until he couldn't even see the fence anymore. No pushing; just disappearance.

 

Why can't he get single, get a place of his own, get established as a single man, and then proposition you? Where is his respect for you?

 

Ditto!I also agree with SG.

 

I think that's what it boils down to and what the whole waiting or not-waiting is about.

 

Waiting to see if he comes off the fence on his own or stews in his mess or until he is ready is still you waiting and observing this man for change. It doesn't matter HOW you wait, it's still waiting if you're invested in observing what he does/doesn't do.

Taking yourself out of the picture entirely is what's not waiting. It's not about ultimatums or force, it's about YOU. If he comes off the fence or not isn't your concern if you're not waiting. You don't have to push, be there to catch him or anything. If you're not waiting...if and when he comes off the fence HE has to find you while you're busy in your own life...and MAYBE there is a chance for him then or not. The focus moves from him him him and what he's going to do and his issues and his life and his wife...to you and what you will and won't do. That's how you know you're not waiting anymore...when he can get off the fence or don't, because your life goes on and you've vowed to move forward. If you haven't moved forward or you move forward but keep looking back for changes...you're emotionally invested in waiting. I think most of this topic has been WF explaining HOW she is waiting and how much she requires and is putting her foot down and telling how much MM is chasing her etc....not realizing that this is exactly the opposite of not waiting. The argument seems to be less of an "I'm not waiting" argument, but an "I'm waiting with dignity and here's how " type of argument IMO.

Edited June 23, 2013 by MissBee

[White Flower]

I don't agree, WF. Depends on what you're looking for. I shoved my xMM because I was not prepared to live indefinitely with the status quo. I was at a point where, whether I shoved and lost him completely, or shoved and he moved out and was with me, I won either way. In the long run anyway. Really different situations.

 

I'm glad that worked out for you.

 

I don't view myself as the OW nor do I feel I am in any status quo.

[2sunny]

I'm glad that worked out for you.

 

I don't view myself as the OW nor do I feel I am in any status quo.

 

How can you possibly say you aren't the OW when this MM actually just asked to move in with you?

 

Who are you kidding? Not me!

 

 

Just own it - you ARE still his OW.

 

I'm sure many OW aren't waiting - but your evidence shows you being invested in his outcome!

[jlola]

I'll bet you haven't considered for a minute that rock bottom could hit at the marital home long before he contacted me. He said he hit rock bottom 24 hours after he moved back in and has been numb ever since.

 

I did not "require" him giving up his M because the AR suited me at the time. It simply bores me now. He knows what that means.

 

He didn't give up the latter but he did give up his happiness. He'll decide which direction that "rock bottom" will take him.

 

So why is he still living with his wife? Is he jobless,crippled? This is the most immature man I have ever heard of. No matter how miserable he is, he needs another mommy to let him move in her house ,before the leaves the big bad mommy he hates who makes him so miserable. Poor baby he has to sleep in another room to sneak and talk to his girlfriend. And this a man in his 60's.

[White Flower]

How can you possibly say you aren't the OW when this MM actually just asked to move in with you?

 

Who are you kidding? Not me!

 

 

Just own it - you ARE still his OW.

 

I'm sure many OW aren't waiting - but your evidence shows you being invested in his outcome!

 

The only outcome I am interested in is MY outcome. If it doesn't work for me it's certainly not going to work for him. Perhaps you are projecting?

[White Flower]

So why is he still living with his wife? Is he jobless,crippled? This is the most immature man I have ever heard of. No matter how miserable he is, he needs another mommy to let him move in her house ,before the leaves the big bad mommy he hates who makes him so miserable. Poor baby he has to sleep in another room to sneak and talk to his girlfriend. And this a man in his 60's.

 

You've just judged someone you don't know of being jobless, crippled, and immature. And nobody on this thread had called BW the big bad mommy. Reminds me of another poster I knew long ago. Please stay on topic or take your judgments to boards that ask for them.

[jlola]

You've just judged someone you don't know of being jobless, crippled, and immature. And nobody on this thread had called BW the big bad mommy. Reminds me of another poster I knew long ago. Please stay on topic or take your judgments to boards that ask for them.

 

 

I ASKED you IF he was jobless or crippled, because I am trying to understand the reason why he cannot move out of the home with his wife and into a place of his own. You never seem to actually answer that question. Just spin around and tell people to stay on topic,which frankly is getting old. Please do not twist my words. I asked questions.

 

I also have the right to say someone is immature if I see it. This is a message board and if I have an opinion, I THINK I should be allowed to say it. I did not curse,call you names or do anything disrespectful.

 

Do you censor everyone you know in real life who has an opinion you do not like?

[underwater2010]

Just thought I'd discuss what is really going on and how things have changed, both here and in my life...for those who expressed interest.

 

I am not back with xMM. He has issues (obviously) and I will not be in a R of any kind with him unless and if he can work those issues out. I do talk with him but am not seeing him. If you want to call that a R be my guest.

 

In the meantime I am dating, back in school, work full time, volunteer, work on home improvements, and am surrounded by a wealth of family and friends. Life is good.

 

xMM has been in IC and has retained a lawyer; in case you doubt it I have the electronic receipt. I will not go with him to his IC, even though I have recently been invited again, until I see the growth that I need to see for myself. I will not hold his hand through is FOO issues as long as he is technically M. People say the OW puts up with crumbs but not this one. He can eat MY crumbs.

 

So he is divorcing and working on himself. I wish you both all the luck in the world!!

 

I am not reformed nor do I believe I did anything wrong; it is not my responsibility to save the M of a woman I do not know.

 

But it is a decent person that does not intrude on the marriage before it is over. It is really sad that you cannot feel the guilt that comes with destroying another person's life. So what you don't "know" her, he was married and you chose to intrude on the marriage. It is sad.

 

Nor is it the responsibility of any woman. I do not blame my exH's new W for seducing him while we were still M nor do I hold her responsible in any way.

 

It is the responsibility of society to protect those that need it. That includes not breaking up marriages and families. So what you don't blame you exH's new wife. You are an exception. Not the rule. Must of us lay blame 50/50. It does take two people to engage in an affair.

 

She and I are great friends now and do things together separately from my ex. That happens when you have good people skills.

 

No that is what happens when you keep your enemies close. It has nothing to do with people skills, unless you are the type that allows people to walk all over you.

 

And I recognize when two people are right for each other as is the case for my exH and his new W.

 

I guess that makes you the bigger person, but my guess is that your marriage was over long before the affair began.

 

I have waved the white flag to BW and invited her to call me any time she wants the truth because I have never wanted anything hidden. Believe what you like but I am an open book.

 

As all AP's should be. To bad you did not do that while he was sneaking around behind her back.

 

I do not post all day on any site, yet there are sites I visit. I left LS for a couple years because I was too busy to post. Same with other sites. Look at the stats if you have the time. I don't. I even stepped down as mod on a site due to the time constraints I have. Today I have a bit of time, so I am posting today.

 

And lastly, let's talk about love. How anyone can blast people for loving someone is beyond me. Why is it ok for a BW to love a jerk but not the OW?

 

Because the BW took time and energy to make vows and set up a house. There is history there. Whether the OW wants to acknowledge it or not. And nobody said that you could not love them, just that they are not quite available for the long term (in most cases).

 

Why is it not ok to expect growth from a lover from the viewpoint of the OW instead of the BW?

 

We all expect some growth from the people when enter into a relationship with. It is just odd that an OW would expect growth of a future, when their time is already taken up by marriage and family. And what type of growth is the OW truly looking for? For him/her to leave the family in the dust in order to set a new home.

 

Who says M makes the love correct?

 

It doesn't necessarily make love correct, but it does signify there was love their at one point. And if the vows don't fit the "love" anymore, that is why there is divorce.

 

If you need to believe that, be my guest. I won't force my beliefs down your throat if you don't force yours down mine. But I've BTDT and I have plenty experience from both a long term M (it would have been 28 years this summer) and a long term A to know what love is and who I need to be in a R with. FTR, it may or may not be with xMM (see above requirements).

 

See responses in bold. By the way I have always respected your posts from both sides. I don't think any of us can truly wrap our brains around all aspects of affairs and what they entail and don't. Nobody can truly tell what is right for your circumstance. All they can give is their experience. I hope all works out for you.

[underwater2010]

Tell me BOTR,

 

If As are so harmful then why does the BW keep taking him back? If she is willing to "harm" herself then why is her pain then my responsibility?

See.....most women take back the WH on the first affair. Then kick their butts out.

 

<redacted off-topic content>

Edited June 24, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[White Flower]

As all AP's should be. To bad you did not do that while he was sneaking around behind her back.

You don't know that.

 

Anyway, thanks everyone!

[whichwayisup]

I am still talking to him but on my time and in my terms. He's lucky I'm talking to him. Any man would be. I'm not dating anyone else? Even he fears I am though that is à propos to nothing.

 

Maybe by not putting him first, he'll realize your life goes on, with or without him and it'll push him into making that final decision of officially divorcing.

 

I have responded [not excitedly] to his moving in

 

You know what I think about this. He has to be on his own for a long while. It is just so unhealthy for him to move out of his marital home and move in with you. Your affair dynamic has to die off too...7 years of an off/on again affair with pain on both sides for each of you.. A new start, fresh start has to happen for you two actually get together and make it work. Say NO to him moving in!

[Lillyfree]

this thread would have been a great journal entry

[White Flower]

LOl then I am only giving the facts also. He is living with his wife. He goes home to her every night. He has left you dangling for 7 long years. You are still talking to him. You are not dating anyone else. He has asked to move in to which you haven't responded. What do you take that to mean?

 

He is [regrettably] living with his W. He [does not] go home to his W every night. He has [not] left me dangling for 7 years (lol, that was funny!--you must still believe it's a man's world!). And I will agree with your last statement, I am still talking to him but on my time and in my terms. He's lucky I'm talking to him--any man would be. I'm not dating anyone else? Even he fears I am though that is à propos to nothing. I have responded [not excitedly] to his moving in but I guess you're reading only that which you wish to instead of how things actually are.

[2sunny]

What is your point here WF?

[White Flower]

What is your point here WF?

 

My points are usually exactly that-points! She (I believe it was kristismiles) made conclusions based on a post of mine so I clarified that her assumptions were wrong. I try not to read assumptions into posts so I wish others would do the same.

[William]

Reviewing the last page of postings, it appears the thread has trended to discussing semantics and other posters rather than the topic itself, so we'll call this one discussed and done. Thanks for your participation.