Update... sigh...

[JustJoe]

She is a cake-eater though. She wants to stay married and have a guy on the side. I wish she'd have picked a single guy, at least.

Very good point.

[Pierre]

I don't really know if I'm ready to fix it, you're right. I'm battling myself over the guilt. I love seeing my MM, but my H doesn't deserve this. I wish my attraction for him would just fade out, but if it were that easy nobody would be in these situations. If I really wanted to stop, I would.

 

I think you are a good woman that needs a lot of validation. No matter how great your H, he cannot validate you 24/7. Furthermore, he cannot pretend to be a NEW guy when you have known him for so long.

 

You probably need support from pro affair folks. There us a subset of single OWs that are dedicated to be OWs with no expectations. They may be able to give you the support you want.

 

It is hard to support a train wreck in the making, but I guess it can be done. What happened to the pro OW pro affair thread that you started? I was no going to participate, but was actually looking forward to read it.

[JustJoe]

And you, or her, never felt guilty, as you claim Nattie can't?

 

I don't mean to call you out, but it seems like people on this site are so quick to say "no, you don't feel bad, you're a cake eater" blah blah blah..but it's impossible to know what feelings are going on in another persons head.

 

I feel tremendous guilt for what I am doing. Started as guilt over the sex, and I will admit, that has gone away. Now I feel guilty that I want to break up my family to be with another man. It's an internal struggle that I can't seem to get out of..or am not ready to get out of. But the guilt is there, eating away at me..

BTW, I never said that Nattie feels no guilt at all, I only stated the obvious (which she agrees with) that she doesn't feel guilty enough to change her situation.

Like the old joke> Woman goes to the doctor and says , "doctor, it hurts when I do this". Doctor replies, "then don't do that".

[Got it]

If the guilt were as bad as you say, I would think it would be a motivating factor in changing your situation.

In my situation, at first our relationship was purely sexual. This lasted for quite some time, and at that point, I felt no guilt whatsoever. It was only after we began to develop deeper feelings for each other that we began to feel guilty. It motivated me to force D-day, end my relationship with my MW, and start NC until she had made her decision to either stay with him , or divorce and be with me. How it turned out, is obvious.

 

So at some point in your timeline you felt guilt but not enough guilt to motivate change, correct? So could Nattie not be in the same middle point of a comparable timeline, like yourself, where at the end she will effect change but is not there? And so she could be feeling the level of guilt that she says she does but, it is at a different level than you to have a cause and effect?

[JustJoe]

So at some point in your timeline you felt guilt but not enough guilt to motivate change, correct? So could Nattie not be in the same middle point of a comparable timeline, like yourself, where at the end she will effect change but is not there? And so she could be feeling the level of guilt that she says she does but, it is at a different level than you to have a cause and effect?

Read the post immediately above yours.

[Nattie]

I think you are a good woman that needs a lot of validation. No matter how great your H, he cannot validate you 24/7. Furthermore, he cannot pretend to be a NEW guy when you have known him for so long.

 

You probably need support from pro affair folks. There us a subset of single OWs that are dedicated to be OWs with no expectations. They may be able to give you the support you want.

 

It is hard to support a train wreck in the making, but I guess it can be done. What happened to the pro OW pro affair thread that you started? I was no going to participate, but was actually looking forward to read it.

 

SO glad you asked Pierre, lol! It was deleted immediately and I recieved a PM letting me know that I violated a rule... "starting an off topic thread in an on topic forum". I was baffled, I thought it would have been a great thread... oh well..

 

Anyway, most of you are absolutely correct. I am selfish, I am a cake eater, I am having fun. I don't want a divorce, my H and I actually have a very good relationship (read my previous threads...) there is no fighting, no hostility, no poor sex life etc. We're actually very affectionate with each other, and if this A were to go public, it would absolutely SHOCK everyone around us. That's what makes me wonder if this isn't a lot more common than people think.. sometimes I sit down and think in my head "oh my god, I'm cheating. I'm having an affair" and I can't even fully process it. Those of you who have said if dday were to come I would be served up a hot dose of reality on a platter, are right. I don't fully grasp what I'm risking here. I have an I won't get caught mentality.

[JustJoe]

Nattie, this is probably the most honest thing you have said , so far.

[Nattie]

I will say, that I am coming to a crossroads. This affair is no longer new and providing that intense rush, and it's obviously no longer JUST about sex and physical attraction. When you're rounding the one year mark, something is keeping it going. I told myself months ago when I finally gave in and got physical with him that it would only be a quick fling, and then we'd say well, it was fun while it lasted, lets go back to our real lives now", but that didn't happen. I'm getting to the point where instead of plotting our next meeting in my head, I'm plotting breakup speeches. I don't want to be in this spot a year or two down the road...

[Nattie]

Nattie, this is probably the most honest thing you have said , so far.

 

Thank you, JustJoe

 

I really am a brutally honest person, sometimes I just don't understand my own reasoning, and what makes me tick. It's not a good feeling, having an otherwise great marriage, but bring involved in an A, purely for my own selfish desires.

[JustJoe]

Nattie, from experience, I can see this is going to end badly, for all concerned, and it's only going to get worse, the longer it goes.. My advice still holds true, please get some counseling. You have some rather serious issues. Good Luck

[Pierre]

SO glad you asked Pierre, lol! It was deleted immediately and I recieved a PM letting me know that I violated a rule... "starting an off topic thread in an on topic forum". I was baffled, I thought it would have been a great thread... oh well..

 

Anyway, most of you are absolutely correct. I am selfish, I am a cake eater, I am having fun. I don't want a divorce, my H and I actually have a very good relationship (read my previous threads...) there is no fighting, no hostility, no poor sex life etc. We're actually very affectionate with each other, and if this A were to go public, it would absolutely SHOCK everyone around us. That's what makes me wonder if this isn't a lot more common than people think.. sometimes I sit down and think in my head "oh my god, I'm cheating. I'm having an affair" and I can't even fully process it. Those of you who have said if dday were to come I would be served up a hot dose of reality on a platter, are right. I don't fully grasp what I'm risking here. I have an I won't get caught mentality.

 

A lot of people in happy marriages have affairs.

 

I am saddened when I see a naive single OW saying that these men would not cheat if they were in a happy marriage.:laugh:

 

I also like to flirt, I am no different than you. In my first marriage I flirted so much that I almost always had some sort of EA going on at all times. I could tell which women were receptive and it was fun. It also validate me as a man. It made going to work everyday a lot of fun.

 

 

The thing is: I never thought of going to bed with these women. In my mind i was just playing the game and enjoy courting them. I became a master at adulation and knew how to provide the attention they were missing at home. But, I never intended to cross the "intercourse line". I don't fall in love easily, I don't lose my head.

 

So I know where you are coming from, but you seem to be a whole lot more exaggerated and addicted than I used to be. For you VALIDATION is everything. I feel bad for you because this will lead you to a very bad place if you do not apply the brakes.

 

The other difference I see between you and me is empathy. You seem to be unable to visualize the damage your family.

[Artie Lang]

 

This affair is no longer new and providing that intense rush, and it's

obviously no longer JUST about sex and physical attraction.

 

this is the problem right here. it means that you are addicted to the "rush." it's not about the affair itself, but what you get out of it. before you started f()cking this OM, it was the flirting that got you off. your marriage isn't providing you with this excitement. this is something you need to work on, because once this affair is over(whenever you actually end it) how do you know you won't find yourself in this predicament later down the line?

 

 

like i said, you had/have some serious boundary issues.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Artie Lang

[So happy together]

A lot of people in happy marriages have affairs.

 

I am saddened when I see a naive single OW saying that these men would not cheat if they were in a happy marriage.:laugh:

 

I also like to flirt, I am no different than you. In my first marriage I flirted so much that I almost always had some sort of EA going on at all times. I could tell which women were receptive and it was fun. It also validate me as a man. It made going to work everyday a lot of fun.

 

 

The thing is: I never thought of going to bed with these women. In my mind i was just playing the game and enjoy courting them. I became a master at adulation and knew how to provide the attention they were missing at home. But, I never intended to cross the "intercourse line". I don't fall in love easily, I don't lose my head.

 

So I know where you are coming from, but you seem to be a whole lot more exaggerated and addicted than I used to be. For you VALIDATION is everything. I feel bad for you because this will lead you to a very bad place if you do not apply the brakes.

 

The other difference I see between you and me is empathy. You seem to be unable to visualize the damage your family.

 

 

No, they don't.

[Pierre]

No, they don't.

 

OP has a great H, they are happy and she still has a lover. It happens all the time.

 

Now, OP may be intrinsically unhappy and perhaps needs external validation to be happy. But, that is not related to the marriage itself.

[So happy together]

OP has a great H, they are happy and she still has a lover. It happens all the time.

 

Now, OP may be intrinsically unhappy and perhaps needs external validation to be happy. But, that is not related to the marriage itself.

 

I suppose I've had a different experience. It had nothing to di with external validation.

[Pierre]

I suppose I've had a different experience. It had nothing to di with external validation.

 

No, you are the real deal. People end marriages all the time when they are unhappy. Op has a good marriage, her words, not mine.

[So happy together]

No, you are the real deal. People end marriages all the time when they are unhappy. Op has a good marriage, her words, not mine.

 

Hm. A good marriage. In her eyes.

[ComingInHot]

So happy, but isn't it her M and Her eyes??

I read a-lot of pepe here say, NO You don't know, You can't tell me what IS because only I am in the thick of it, Don't try to tell me about my stitch...

 

So, sohappy... Don't*

[Pierre]

Hm. A good marriage. In her eyes.

 

Some people cheat regardless of the state of the marriage.

Some people never cheat regardless of the state of the marriage.

[LilGirlandOW]

Nattie, Do you consider yourself in love with this OM? and is there a fear of him forcing a dday onto your H?

[Pierre]

Nattie, Do you consider yourself in love with this OM? and is there a fear of him forcing a dday onto your H?

 

I believe Nattie is in love with OM that is why she cannot give up the affair.

[Nattie]

Nattie, Do you consider yourself in love with this OM? and is there a fear of him forcing a dday onto your H?

 

I reeeeeally don't think I am in love with him, but I don't exactly know how to define love. I know that I love my H (some of you will laugh, because I am unfaithful, so you think how can she seriously say that...). With MM, I go days without communication, and I'm fine with it. Sometimes after two or three days I get a text and I actually get an empty feeling, not excitement. I refuse to spend "quality time" with him. No dates, dinners, movies etc. When the physical stuff is finished, I'm outta there (no cuddling either... bleh). I also think if I were in love with him, it would bother me when he talks about his wife. We're very open and both talk about our spouses all the time, and not in negative ways. It doesn't bother me in the slightest to think that he's in bed snoring next to her right now.

 

I do care about him, he's not just an object. I'm just very reluctant to let it become too emotional, but then again I've always been like that. As far as fear of a dday, I really don't think so. Neither one of us are that type. I mean I guess anything is possible, but I can't see him becoming bitter and doing that to me. I would never do it to him either, worse case scenerio, one of us just says that we aren't interested in continuing anymore and that's that. I think if I ended it, he might try here and there to get me to see him, but he wouldn't push.

 

As far as my relationship with H, when you talk with a stranger over the internet who's screwing around on her spouse, I can see where one would assume there are major problems, but really there aren't. This affair is happening because of ME. There isn't anything my H could do or have done to prevent it. He's not a jerk, he works hard, stays in incredible shape, helps me 50/50 with housework AND childcare. We really are best friends. We go on plenty of dates, we're always laughing with each other... I am genuinely risking what might be one of the best men on the planet.

[So happy together]

So happy, but isn't it her M and Her eyes??

I read a-lot of pepe here say, NO You don't know, You can't tell me what IS because only I am in the thick of it, Don't try to tell me about my stitch...

 

So, sohappy... Don't*

 

You speak your mind. How dare you ask me not to? You know what? You win. I won't.

[Pierre]

I reeeeeally don't think I am in love with him, but I don't exactly know how to define love. I know that I love my H (some of you will laugh, because I am unfaithful, so you think how can she seriously say that...). With MM, I go days without communication, and I'm fine with it. Sometimes after two or three days I get a text and I actually get an empty feeling, not excitement. I refuse to spend "quality time" with him. No dates, dinners, movies etc. When the physical stuff is finished, I'm outta there (no cuddling either... bleh). I also think if I were in love with him, it would bother me when he talks about his wife. We're very open and both talk about our spouses all the time, and not in negative ways. It doesn't bother me in the slightest to think that he's in bed snoring next to her right now.

 

I do care about him, he's not just an object. I'm just very reluctant to let it become too emotional, but then again I've always been like that. As far as fear of a dday, I really don't think so. Neither one of us are that type. I mean I guess anything is possible, but I can't see him becoming bitter and doing that to me. I would never do it to him either, worse case scenerio, one of us just says that we aren't interested in continuing anymore and that's that. I think if I ended it, he might try here and there to get me to see him, but he wouldn't push.

 

As far as my relationship with H, when you talk with a stranger over the internet who's screwing around on her spouse, I can see where one would assume there are major problems, but really there aren't. This affair is happening because of ME. There isn't anything my H could do or have done to prevent it. He's not a jerk, he works hard, stays in incredible shape, helps me 50/50 with housework AND childcare. We really are best friends. We go on plenty of dates, we're always laughing with each other... I am genuinely risking what might be one of the best men on the planet.

 

Excellent post Nattie. You do care about OM.

 

As for what love is------ There are three types:

 

Infatuation

Romantic Enchantment

Long term attachment.

 

Your long term love for your H is more powerful than the other two. Even if you feel more butterflies with OM.

 

If you did not care for OM you could stop at any time.

[mercy]

So you're willing to be someone's "on the side", and keep them as your "own the side". You're willing to lie and decieve your husband about what's going on.

 

But you're not willing to leave your husband.

 

You're willing to keep him in the dark about what's going on, and continue to participate in the ONGOING cheating and deception that you're hiding from him...but you're not willing to leave him?

 

That's your "line you won't cross"?

 

Have you considered how this would look to your H if he read your posts, and/or my summary of them?

 

Exactly. Spot on, owl.