a serial cheater finally comes clean

[aliveagain]

This is about your root causes, ponder and dig deep, nothing will permanently change for the good until you do. This is your life after all and choice was always there. A broken individual making a choice may not result in the same choices that a healthy individual would make. You owe it to yourself first and than to your husband and children regarding choices made that affect you and them are made clearly, unselfishly and in the absolute best interest of your family. Dig and ponder, that's a very good start.

Edited July 17, 2013 by aliveagain

[Steadfast]

I believe I have lost enough to never want to do that in the future. Everything in me is working to make it authentic and permanent this time around. As for the world around me (i.e. kids and husband), it will take a lot of time and a lot of consistency for them to believe that. As it should.

 

How could anyone not get behind this? Great words Jane. Now, you must make those words action that turns into reality and truth.

 

I love to say and remind people that history's brightest and best suffered through enormous heartache and personal torture. You're in good company.

 

Run your foot right up the a$$ of your demons Jane. Be stronger.

[janedoe67]

Ugh, that just made me wonder about something. Not sure I'm ready to share what because if there is any validity to it I just uncovered another ugly part of my insides. I need to ponder first.

 

Okay....here goes....

 

One time a discussion between husband and I got tense, then escalated, then he got angry. He eventually leaped up from his place on the couch and came across the room to take hold of the finger I was pointing at him. I yanked my finger away, closed my laptop, and sat back in my chair and told him not to touch me.

 

Later, he apologized for losing control. We talked about it, and as we talked and I opened up more, I told him something that blew his mind. I told him that in a way it made me feel good, because his reaction had PASSION in it, and he just seemed so hohum and indifferent about my feelings and my presence so much of the time, I often wondered if he felt anything strong or passionate about me. That while I would prefer the positive kind of passion, at least some passion was better than indifference.

 

What if....what if part of me is awful enough to hurt him to see if he even cares? What if I got sloppy because I WANTED on some level to get caught and make him feel SOMETHING?

 

This is making me sick to consider. I don't want that to be even a little true. How cruel that would be.

[aliveagain]

You may be onto something. If you feel you lack attention, bad attention is still attention. My children have proven this out to me many times. This is something you definitely need to discuss with your counselor. Keep digging.

[janedoe67]

You may be onto something. If you feel you lack attention, bad attention is still attention. My children have proven this out to me many times. This is something you definitely need to discuss with your counselor. Keep digging.

 

yeah....I have learned that when something makes me want to vomit I should usually investigate it.

[aliveagain]

Do you think your husband wonders about this too and maybe that's his way of showing you his passion, staying by your side, for his family? He may be just as confused as you, what do you think he believes, your words or your actions? Telling him you love him doesn't match your actions, your children may have similar doubts. Your husband and your children look to you for their security.

Edited July 17, 2013 by aliveagain

[janedoe67]

It's funny. In the beginning of our marriage, I felt so SAFE knowing that he wouldn't take the bait. I grew up in a "vent it all and say it all and then feel better" kind of family, which meant arguments could get loud, and regretful things were almost always said. My husband wouldn't participate, and because he wouldn't, I never got escalated myself enough to say all those regretful things, which was very good for me.

 

Somewhere along the way I started seeing his calmness and evenness as passivity. I can see the vicious cycle, especially when I had postpartem depression. Me not knowing what to do with all the terribleness I was feeling, lashing out at him at times, him pulling farther away to protect himself, me thinking he didn't care and pushing harder. This was also when he started looking at porn. I am an "elaborate" person by nature. I love theater, singing, performing, making people laugh, expressing, etc. I wonder if sometimes I get nervous when things just ARE. When everyone seems comatose emotionally, so I stir the pot. I really hope not. I do not want to intentionally hurt people. I am sure that was why his family was so relieved during the time that I was overmedicated to the point of being a zombie.

 

Yes, I definitely need to make this a counseling topic.

[SammySammy]

It's funny. In the beginning of our marriage, I felt so SAFE knowing that he wouldn't take the bait. I grew up in a "vent it all and say it all and then feel better" kind of family, which meant arguments could get loud, and regretful things were almost always said. My husband wouldn't participate, and because he wouldn't, I never got escalated myself enough to say all those regretful things, which was very good for me.

 

Somewhere along the way I started seeing his calmness and evenness as passivity. I can see the vicious cycle, especially when I had postpartem depression. Me not knowing what to do with all the terribleness I was feeling, lashing out at him at times, him pulling farther away to protect himself, me thinking he didn't care and pushing harder. This was also when he started looking at porn. I am an "elaborate" person by nature. I love theater, singing, performing, making people laugh, expressing, etc. I wonder if sometimes I get nervous when things just ARE. When everyone seems comatose emotionally, so I stir the pot. I really hope not. I do not want to intentionally hurt people. I am sure that was why his family was so relieved during the time that I was overmedicated to the point of being a zombie.

 

Yes, I definitely need to make this a counseling topic.

 

That's pretty good insight, Jane.

 

We often see threads where spouses become withdrawn or distant. Uninterested in sex. Rarely is the person being withdrawn from aware of how they may have contributed.

 

I congratulate you because awareness is the first step. Now, you may be able to take the steps necessary to repair your relationship.

[janedoe67]

Well, the "Just smooth the soil and plant the right thing on top" method obviously didn't work, much to the chagrin of half baked behaviorist a everywhere. So maybe actually taking a deep look will.

 

We are both tentatively hopeful.

[Steadfast]

Well, the "Just smooth the soil and plant the right thing on top" method obviously didn't work, much to the chagrin of half baked behaviorist a everywhere. So maybe actually taking a deep look will.

 

We are both tentatively hopeful.

 

I'm pretty sure I do not agree with what you are implying. As I wrote in a previous post, no matter how 'deep' you go you'll have to address the here and now at some point. Maybe you'll feel better if there is someone to blame? You might. Problem is, that revelation won't sustain you forever.

 

I loathe 'drug 'em up, dig it up and drag it out' modern psychiatry. The range of specialists varies from very good to putrid. The real issue? Many people treat therapy like religion; they'll keep switching teams until they hear what they want to hear. Make sure you're not doing that Jane.

[janedoe67]

I'm pretty sure I do not agree with what you are implying. As I wrote in a previous post, no matter how 'deep' you go you'll have to address the here and now at some point. Maybe you'll feel better if there is someone to blame? You might. Problem is, that revelation won't sustain you forever.

 

I loathe 'drug 'em up, dig it up and drag it out' modern psychiatry. The range of specialists varies from very good to putrid. The real issue? Many people treat therapy like religion; they'll keep switching teams until they hear what they want to hear. Make sure you're not doing that Jane.

 

I know exactly who to blame for my affair. Me. I made the choice. And no matter what issues I have, I have the power NOT to make such a choice.

 

The here and now is working to be trustworthy, working on my side of the marriage, working to make amends and bear the fruits of repentance. To live honorably each day from this day forward.

 

But respectfully, the particular place where a few hyperlegalistic people have twisted the founders words out of context to mean that past abuse, FOO issues, etc. have absolutely NO bearing on us in life and all you have to do is "act different" are, with respect, myopic idiots. The things we go through in life DO affect and shape us. it isn't about blame. It's about dealing with the blind spots and vulnerabilities. Like physical therapy. Can you imagine someone going to a doctor with a messed up knee and him saying, well, just don't jump that way on the basketball court anymore" and not taking any medical history? If this person has a repeated injury, or had knee replacement 5 years ago, or wore braces on his legs as a kid, that information IS pertinent.

 

Lucky for me I have been away from such myopic nonsense long enough now to understand balance.

 

I have no desire to shift the blame for my behavior onto anyone else. if it is someone else's fault, then I have no power to change it. But only someone with no depth of actual understanding of the human mind and emotion would suggest that the life we have lived and been exposed to in the past has no part in shaping who we are.

[road]

The here and now is working to be trustworthy, working on my side of the marriage, working to make amends and bear the fruits of repentance. To live honorably each day from this day forward.

 

 

What are you doing to repair the broken trust?

 

Have you gotten the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

[janedoe67]

What are you doing to repair the broken trust?

 

Have you gotten the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

 

My husband always knows where I am and I respond to his class and texts immediately.

 

He has all of my passwords, has spyware on my laptop, knows how to check my texts and calls online.

 

I leave my phone in public areas of the house at all times so he can check it anytime he wants.

 

I am going to IC, and he verifies that I am going and is free to ask about anything that is discussed. We set aside time to talk about significant things each night.

 

I have read Surviving an Affair several times.

 

One thing we are doing differently this time around is letting him do what he needs to do to feel safe. When push comes to shove, he and I are married to each other, and because he is my husband then he needs what he needs to feel safe and to heal. And that should be our guide.

[Steadfast]

I've said various times I do admire your approach. I think your motivation is sound. We disagree about therapy, but so what? I get the feeling if someone tried shifting blame you'd catch it. You are almost hyper-critical of yourself, which is rare. That's probably why I check this thread daily. You are rare.

 

Understanding you cheated I have to ask; what is he doing for you? Please tell me if I'm out of line, but by my way of reasoning his 'issues' regarding intimacy expose you to more temptation. He needs to give too. He needs to help you help yourself. Most cheaters are selfish. Before, during and after.

 

Keep posting. Someone, somewhere in the future will read this thread and get encouragement from it. Remember: no good deed is ever wasted.

[janedoe67]

I haven't pushed the physical intimacy thing for a few reasons:

 

First, selfishly, I am terrified of hysterical bonding because it ended up being a very BAD thing for me in the end.

 

We had some other stresses like job loss and money issues and I think he was overwhelmed enough.

 

When you get fixated on something - like the need for sex and how it's lacking blah blah - and then take unhealthy avenues to deal with it, I think a "time out period" helps. I allowed myself to equate physical with validation in a way. I think it is good for ME to practice other ways.

 

The job stress has lifted as we are both beginning new employment - or rather I should say unemployment is no longer a stress. New jobs will be somewhat stressful. He does have a need to feel emotionally safe, and my gut tells me that that should come first.

 

There is more contact than there was in the form of hugs and couch snuggling. Which is good, and it also tells me that it wasn't all a sex thing because the kind of touch we are having is very healing and fulfilling.

 

The reason I sound clinical is because I have been under a psych's care for 8 years or so and have been through a variety of issues with that. Plus I tend to become a student of whatever is going on, so I have studied a LOT. I want to be very aware of the balance between "the root" of things and getting on with new behaviors.

 

I am trying to see the positive steps I am taking now. But honestly, I believe that I will need to make self-checks and constant awareness part of my makeup for life. I have done this more than once, even after several years of being faithful again. This for me will be something I can never say I have "arrived" in and let guard down.

[janedoe67]

We are in our new place. The kids start school soon. There were no casualties or major meltdowns during the transition - HUZZAH!

 

I have been in an interesting place. A lot of it is separate from hubby because, thankfully, he is such a rare person. I find myself in observational mode a lot, kind of in awe, maybe?

 

Yes, there is still hurt to heal. There are still questions and transparency is lifelong.

 

But it's odd. He is honest about what he thinks and feels, but he doesn't feel the need to diatribe. He did/said something hurtful the other day, and he apologized without using my A's to mitigate it. I had a nightmare recently and woke up crying....it had to do with an OP trying to kill the family. (no that has never happened, and I have vivid dreams all the time). He could have had a field day with that. Either outright using it to punish or doing that thing where he could pretend to comfort but got in the little moral high ground digs. He just turned on the light and stroked my hair and told me it was just a dream.

 

You know what is weird? I don't feel the least need to be defensive with him about my choices or about needing to be extra transparent or about recovery taking time. I don't feel the need to "stand my ground" on anything. I can focus completely on doing the right thing and change....because I don't feel I need to defend myself against him.

 

It's interesting. It is actually easier to live out the repentance and remorse WITHOUT the scarlet letter. Go fig. I actually want to help him and be trustworthy MORE because he ISN'T bitter. The fact that he doesn't use the chances he has to "keep me in my inferior place" makes me want to show him even more respect.

 

When all this is marked with that "recovered" stamp through work and the passage of time, I really do think he should write a book. I do not know many BS's who have handled what could be a gold mine of perpetual punishment with such....character and grace.

 

We are still not intimate. I find myself not really worrying about it right now. I honestly would rather it not be a factor in our healing phase. If intimacy returns to our marriage, I don't want it to be a salve or a temporary stage of "winning me back" or something. I want it to be real, and I want it to be permanent.

 

And if it's not.....if I do the work I know I should do for recovery, and two or three years down the road we still have a celibate and platonically based marriage? I don't know, but I DO know it will not involve adultery. It will either involve contentment where I am or an honorable and firm exit.

[Steadfast]

It's interesting. It is actually easier to live out the repentance and remorse WITHOUT the scarlet letter. Go fig. I actually want to help him and be trustworthy MORE because he ISN'T bitter. The fact that he doesn't use the chances he has to "keep me in my inferior place" makes me want to show him even more respect.

 

It would seem your husband has real love. He must. Not many men would be interested in a celibate marriage. You do know that respect breeds attraction, right? It does seem to me you are healing your heart. You husband is aiding that, when he could be picking and festering the wound.

 

You do realize you have the chance to have an inspiration marriage? Exceptional people are capable of exceptional actions. Desire is key. Exceptional people never truly believe they are. That's the difference.

[janedoe67]

Thank you for the kind words.

 

I am learning that as I observe my husband for who he is, my definition of what love is deepens.

[road]

"He did/said something hurtful the other day, and he apologized without using my A's to mitigate it.................. He just turned on the light and stroked my hair and told me it was just a dream."

 

 

Your BH is learning to change.

 

 

"We are still not intimate. I find myself not really worrying about it right now. I honestly would rather it not be a factor in our healing phase. If intimacy returns to our marriage, I don't want it to be a salve or a temporary stage of "winning me back" or something. I want it to be real, and I want it to be permanent."

 

 

There is nothing wrong with waiting. There is nothing wrong with HB. Winning your back is a normal response. So nothing wrong with that.

 

 

"I know I should do for recovery, and two or three years down the road we still have a celibate and platonically based marriage? I don't know, but I DO know it will not involve adultery. It will either involve contentment where I am or an honorable and firm exit."

 

 

This is bad. You are making recovery plans that have escape built into them. That is not committing.

 

Recovery is a 2 to 5 year process. You will not commit to past 3 years. Recovery is not taking one for the team and be celibate for 2 to 3 years. Recovery is rebuilding trust. Rebuilding romantic feeling. So SF comes back naturally.

 

You need to do more then to stop having affairs and being patient with your BH to recover your marriage.

 

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley to make sure you and your BH are doing all that has to be done to restore the marriage.

 

What have you done to rebuild trust?

 

What have you done to make your BH feel safe?

 

What have you done to restore the romantic feelings?

 

Do you and your BH spend 15 to 20 hours every week of us alone time. Dating and recreational companionship?

 

Sitting back and waiting is not recovery.

[janedoe67]

[quoteGet the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley to make sure you and your BH are doing all that has to be done to restore the marriage.

 

As stated in several posts, I have read Surviving an Affair several times, as has my husband

 

What have you done to rebuild trust?

 

To repeat, We have complete transparency, he knows all of my info and passwords, he is free to look at my phone or laptop at any time, I always keep him informed of my whereabouts, call him when I am out, and make sure I answer his texts and calls, he is free to ask whatever questions he wishes, and I am open with him about my thoughts and feelings

 

What have you done to make your BH feel safe?

 

The above, plus expressions of gratitude, admiration, respect, and love

 

What have you done to restore the romantic feelings?

 

I know what my husbands top needs and love languages are, and I work to meet those

 

Do you and your BH spend 15 to 20 hours every week of us alone time. Dating and recreational companionship?

 

We do not "date" per se because finances are very tight and he does not prefer to do so. However, our kids are old enough that we have plenty of alone time to spend together even at home.

 

Sitting back and waiting is not recovery. ]

 

I am not sitting back and waiting. I am working to rebuild trust and make just compensation. At the risk of spurring an "investigation," I will say that I at one time was very active on marriage builders, and I spent a long time trying to do a one-sided implementation of MB. Hubby was not interested then and is less interested now. He does not need sex, and it does not occur to him. He is not naturally affectionate, and he does not like going out of his comfort zone. It has been this way since many years before there was EVER an affair. Despite what the die-hards like to think, for some of us, it isn't as easy as a "do the right things and everything will work" math equation.

 

I am fully committed to working on my marriage and pulling out all the stops for recovery and doing what I can do on my side of the street to rebuild romantic love. However, I will not remain for my entire life in a celibate marriage. Adultery is wrong, but it does not necessitate that the FORMER wayward spouse live without their needs being met for life as some sort of permanent consequence. Yes, I can see why that thought would be attractive to those who would rather punish and be a victim than truly recover. However, thankfully, MY husband is not in that category of BS.

 

As I said above, the last time around, I felt, for some odd reason, that I was duty bound to satisfy a bunch of faceless people. The only people I have to satisfy are my husband, God, my children and myself.

[drifter777]

Not everyone would recomment "Surviving An Affair" - just sayin'.

 

Is your husband in counseling? He sounds like he could be codependent to the extreme. Nothing other than a serious emotional or personality disorder explains his behavior. Not just now but ever since your first affair.

[road]

 

We do not "date" per se because finances are very tight and he does not prefer to do so. However, our kids are old enough that we have plenty of alone time to spend together even at home.

 

 

I am not sitting back and waiting. I am working to rebuild trust and make just compensation. At the risk of spurring an "investigation," I will say that I at one time was very active on marriage builders, and I spent a long time trying to do a one-sided implementation of MB. Hubby was not interested then and is less interested now. He does not need sex, and it does not occur to him. He is not naturally affectionate, and he does not like going out of his comfort zone. It has been this way since many years before there was EVER an affair. Despite what the die-hards like to think, for some of us, it isn't as easy as a "do the right things and everything will work" math equation.

 

 

Recreational companionship can be a date. Many outdoor activities that are free or low cost. No reason to not date.

 

Not normal for a man to not want sex. You bought the Harley books. Did you ever consider contacting Dr Harley to work on your H's lost sex drive.

 

Not fair for your H to make you go without sex.

[aliveagain]

Without knowing your likes I can suggest taking in a couple of galleries, a museum, low cost and a great way to spend an afternoon. Drive out to a country place or a beach, river walk area and have a picnic, just gas and some home made food, fruits, a little wine. I like to go to a little blues joint, just a small cover charge and you can listen to live music all night for the cost of a couple drinks each, they all have wings and burgers if you want an inexpensive meal. Every city has a market area, just go and walk around, have a coffee and bagel, costs you almost nothing. You can date for almost nothing and have a great time. The memory that stays with you is not what you spent but the fun you had with the one you love, make some memories.

 

My best memories are from when I was a broke starving artist living above "Chan's Chinese Palace", we lived on next to nothing but the fun times we had are forever burned into my memory. Just this weekend a friend visited me from Ontario. We went to the mountains for the afternoon and had a picnic. We picked tea, grows wild everywhere and it will last me a year and it's totally free. We had an absolutely amazing afternoon, she can't stop talking about it and took a zillion pictures. We came across a large black bear(who ran from us), two deer and several hundred cattle that the ranchers let roam freely in the alpine valleys all summer. We sat beside the most amazing waterfall and had our picnic, all it cost was gas, money to buy a French stick, a mini watermelon, cheese's and a bottle of wine which we chilled in ice cold glacier water from the waterfall. Why not try it just to humor me?

[janedoe67]

Those are great ideas. We looked at the arts section of the paper and found out that a nearby college has tons of recitals, concerts, and plays for nothing or next to nothing. Our kids are old enough that we can shoo them out of the main part of the house and I can make it a "restaurant." Our humor and interests and such are very similar, so we always enjoy each other's company.

[aliveagain]

Those are great ideas. We looked at the arts section of the paper and found out that a nearby college has tons of recitals, concerts, and plays for nothing or next to nothing. Our kids are old enough that we can shoo them out of the main part of the house and I can make it a "restaurant." Our humor and interests and such are very similar, so we always enjoy each other's company.

 

Why not shoo them out all together and than have some real fun with the food? Just saying you could dress up like a server and perhaps forget to put on certain articles of clothing, sorry if I am being a little too forward, just making some suggestions that would certainly get my attention if I were in that situation.