a serial cheater finally comes clean

[janedoe67]

I will expand more. He and I have had various discussions throughout our marriage about past life events that may have helped shape us. He has reassured me time and again that there is no sexual abuse in his history. It was even touched on in our MC...again, no abuse. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "Jane, I need to tell you that I was in fact molested by so and so and it really messed me up," my response would be to say, "I am so sorry. I am glad you told me. What can I do? How can I help?" Any decisions about future would be on hold if trying to get through it together would help him.

 

Regarding sex itself. I thought at first that it was just that we were newly married and have very conservative backgrounds. Then I spent quite a few years thinking that it was me and that I was not doing or being the things that would attract him. Then I became angry and resentful and cheated. The rest has been discussed here a lot. It was not some one time conversation.

 

My first instinct was to immediate deny dent that I have ever "thrived" on this. But that is wrong. I don't think it was conscious, but I know I nursed a lot of my own crap. And I was weak and self-centered. I wanted HIM to be the one to leave. I worried too much about being "the bad guy." Like you said...me, me, me. And sadly, in an effort to seem "nice" and not bad mouth him (and because I HAVE done some wrong things) I don't like to just come out and say things like "he is screwed up over sex and it wrecked out marriage." Maybe that is being too careful. Maybe I should just say it.

 

Maybe the reason this thread took a turn is because I needed to have a kick in the pants.

 

I blew it this week. Since you seem to have some added insight, is there anything you would suggest?

[whatatangledweb]

I'm not sure why Jane doe is being torn down by people. She cheated. She has admitted all her wrong doings. She isn't a bad or uncaring person. She made some bad choices. She cares about her husband. There is no way for her to force him to say yes he was abused. He said he was not. So either he wasn't or he doesn't want to talk about it. I have known several people, men and women, who are asexual. None were sexual abused.

 

She lets us know what goes through a WS mind. How they feel and why they make their choices. How they want to fix the mess that has been created. It is the WS that helped me heal the most. I knew what a BS felt like and thought. Thank you Jan Doe for being so open about your life.

[janedoe67]

Let me ask this,

 

How am I supposed to FORCE him to tell me something that may not even exist? Unless you somehow know him personally and have knowledge I do not have, what makes you so certain he was abused?

 

The reason he refuses to go to a sex therapist is because he thinks it is unChristian. We have talked about this many many times. He says over and over that sex has just never been a big thing for him. He says he did not even go through the "horny teenager" stage. We have discussed homosexuality, and he says he is not gay. He has said all along that he does love me, he just doesn't think about it. He had his T levels tested and they are in the normal range.

 

For most of our marriage we have made pretty good friends. When he has been sick I have taken care of him, when he has been depressed I have listened and tried to remind him of all the things about him that are good. When he has lost jobs, even though it was stressful, I have tried to be his cheerleader, and be his motivator without being his "mom."

 

You keep saying what about him? He is not here. He is not on this forum or thread. If the only person I can control is myself, then what am I to do? I cannot force him. I honestly thought that for me to leave just because of ME not getting what I need or whatever was selfish. I realize an A is even more selfish and a huge betrayal.

 

I have to admit, the idea that I am to BLAME for HIS inactions is a bit ridiculous to me. I can see that I enabled some unhealthy dynamic, but if I am responsible for my actions, how is it that he is NOT responsible for his?

 

Both you and a recently banned member seem to think you have an accurate picture of the long term day to day workings of our marriage, and I assure you that you do not. Your view seems to be that I am crazy, he is damaged, and somehow his damage prior to me even meeting him is somehow my fault, even if there IS nothing that "happened" to him. That I am somehow supposed to magically know that he is lying when he repeatedly says these things did not happen. That I am a shrew who constantly yells and nags and causes accidents.

 

You seem to think the only reason my husband is not sexual is because he is married to me, and yet when I admitted that I had that fear, you said I was making it all about me.

 

He is a good man in many ways. He is also not perfect. The things we have chosen and not chosen up to now cannot be undone. So.....what next?

 

I am not sure what your goal is. If it is to help, then I appreciate that, but I cannot quite get a handle on it.

[Steadfast]

Not helping. Aggressively argumentative and sarcastically snarky.

 

The style is all too familiar. That, and since this person has joined, they've averaged over 24 posts a day. That is highly uncommon for a new member.

 

You keep saying what about him? He is not here. He is not on this forum or thread. If the only person I can control is myself, then what am I to do? I cannot force him. I honestly thought that for me to leave just because of ME not getting what I need or whatever was selfish. I realize an A is even more selfish and a huge betrayal.

 

Nothing more need be said in defense Jane...if a defense was necessary.

[janedoe67]

I am probably being foolish, but it can also be educational.

 

It's been a long marriage with some (more than some actually) great things, some bad things, and some stupid things. It produced three amazing children.

[dichotomy]

 

The reason he refuses to go to a sex therapist is because he thinks it is unChristian. We have talked about this many many times.

 

My wife and I are Christians, in fact she has more studies in scripture and time in church then I will ever have. (Not that it matters - FYI only, we currently attend a non denomination church with modest views - your church may be different).

 

Which is why I carefully chose a sex therapist who was a christian sex therapist, a marriage therapist, and also a woman. I am not going to say it fixed things (it has not) but it has produced some improvements here and there - and more importantly allowed sex and marriage (what a marriage should have) to be discussed in a safe environment for my wife - from another female who is Christian. This last part was a pressure relief for me - to allow someone else to carry the "debate" about getting her grove back. So even those the sex is not back to what it needs to be and I am sad/mad over that - it is at least being talked about and encouraged by someone other than me.

 

However, I will confess I left out the fact that she was happened to have a certification in sex therapy when we first went - only highlighting her being a female christian marriage counselor. Wife was mad to find that out (her sex therapy specialty) her first session - but too darn bad - deal with it. And yes I keep making the appointments, pushing her to go, and often she says she wishes we would not - again too bad.

 

During my searches I came across sex therapist from several religious backgrounds including Catholic. Not all - but some churches and denominations recognize the importance of good sex in marriages.

Edited December 1, 2013 by dichotomy

[janedoe67]

My wife and I are Christians, in fact she has more studies in scripture and time in church then I will ever have. (Not that it matters - FYI only, we currently attend a non denomination church with modest views - your church may be different).

 

Which is why I carefully chose a sex therapist who was a christian sex therapist, a marriage therapist, and also a woman. I am not going to say it fixed things (it has not) but it has produced some improvements here and there - and more importantly allowed sex and marriage (what a marriage should have) to be discussed in a safe environment for my wife - from another female who is Christian. This last part was a pressure relief for me - to allow someone else to carry the "debate" about getting her grove back. So even those the sex is not back to what it needs to be and I am sad/mad over that - it is at least being talked about and encouraged by someone other than me.

 

However, I will confess I left out the fact that she was happened to have a certification in sex therapy when we first went - only highlighting her being a female christian marriage counselor. Wife was mad to find that out (her sex therapy specialty) her first session - but too darn bad - deal with it.

 

During my searches I came across sex therapist from several religious backgrounds including Catholic. Not all - but some churches and denominations recognize the importance of good sex in marriages.

 

This has been one of my nagging questions:

 

If he is truly asexual, if he really does NOT need it, and it really just isn't "Him" to want sex....SHOULD I insist on him trying to "fix" himself? I am outgoing; it's just my nature. I wouldn't want him to send me to therapy to make me an inrovert. At what point am I trying to change who he is? I mean, I held all this resentment for feeling like I had to change who I was for years. Should I expect him to? That is some of the recent selfishness of I thought about.

[dichotomy]

 

For most of our marriage we have made pretty good friends. When he has been sick I have taken care of him, when he has been depressed I have listened and tried to remind him of all the things about him that are good. When he has lost jobs, even though it was stressful, I have tried to be his cheerleader, and be his motivator without being his "mom."

 

 

 

Putting aside your affairs - sounds like you been there for him.

 

Putting aside his lack of sexual affection -can you list the things he does for you? Whats the good stuff?

[dichotomy]

This has been one of my nagging questions:

 

If he is truly asexual, if he really does NOT need it, and it really just isn't "Him" to want sex....SHOULD I insist on him trying to "fix" himself? I am outgoing; it's just my nature. I wouldn't want him to send me to therapy to make me an inrovert. At what point am I trying to change who he is? I mean, I held all this resentment for feeling like I had to change who I was for years. Should I expect him to? That is some of the recent selfishness of I thought about.

 

Its a fair point..especially if this is who he has always been form the time you met and fell in love.

 

My situation is far different as my wife has been extremely sexual at times with me and with others even boasting about it back in the day.

 

The only thing I can add - is a debate my wife and I - and one other past therapist (not the current one) have had. Should you do things for your spouse your not really "in to" yourself? Specifically should you engage in sex if your not feeling like it?

 

My personal view (and that of the current therapist) is unless it is abusive or degrading or hurtful - yes, sex sometimes just needs to happen. But it has too be a shift from your pleasure to giving to the other. Sometimes people can not make that leap - take pure joy in the others joy. They need something for themselves.

 

There are more than a few things I have done, or do, for my wife, that I don't feel like, or even that I might not like, but I try to do them when I can for her enjoyment or to show her I love her. I have also changed significantly being with her - good or bad - I am not the same person anymore.

 

Its a very tough situation you are in - as he simply appears to never have this in him - nor really given this to you. You appeared to try to cope with this until it reached a boiling point.

Edited December 2, 2013 by dichotomy

[Fluttershy]

This has been one of my nagging questions:

 

If he is truly asexual, if he really does NOT need it, and it really just isn't "Him" to want sex....SHOULD I insist on him trying to "fix" himself? I am outgoing; it's just my nature. I wouldn't want him to send me to therapy to make me an inrovert. At what point am I trying to change who he is? I mean, I held all this resentment for feeling like I had to change who I was for years. Should I expect him to? That is some of the recent selfishness of I thought about.

 

I don't know how many people are truly A-Sexual. Usually, it is something deeper at the route of the problem. If someone is truly a-sexual, no amount of help is going to "fix" him. But if there is another issue like depression, OCD, Autism, and even just a twisted view of sex and what it is, then sometimes finding the right key to unlock the problem will help. But, he will need a mind shift himself and the desire to want to change. Sounds to me like he has accepted his low desire for sex and has no motivation to investigate it. And that is where the problem lies.

The thing about a-sexual people is they aren't necessarily distant people physically. Hugs and cuddling and other platonic gestures are not off the table for them. And touch is important to some people even in a non sexual way. And even a non-sex driven person can fulfill that need if they so choose.

Has anything went forward on divorcing? If you change your mind can you spend the rest of your marriage without resenting the lack of sexual intimacy? Can non sexual touch be enough for you? If not then I encourage you to move forward towards divorce. And be honest with him for why. Don't say as the caustic poster said "You are better off without me" because that blurs the remaining issue (as he has forgiven you for the affair by your posts) which is that you cannot live in a platonic marriage anymore. That he needs a companion not a wife. And that you need physical intimacy.

[janedoe67]

Putting aside your affairs - sounds like you been there for him.

 

Putting aside his lack of sexual affection -can you list the things he does for you? Whats the good stuff?

 

Absolutely:

 

He is a good father. That may not "seem" to be for me, but it is. Being a good father is important.

 

He makes me laugh, and that is something very precious. He can make my laugh when I am crying (as long as he didn't make me cry lol)

 

He has always been very good at giving gifts. Gifts are not my "primary love language," but he puts thought into things. That shows care.

 

He has stood up for me on many occasions, and I appreciate that. In fact, as passive as he can be, when it comes to protecting me or the kids, he is formiddable.

 

I used to have a lot of bad nightmares. He always held me when I woke up really scared and screaming.

 

I will never forget when I was having one of our kids and I was just pathetic. I was a drama queen. But he just kept brushing my hair back and telling me I was doing great and he was proud of me.

 

He is patient when I ramble.

 

He notices details that I miss, like the fact that I might be going to grocery shop, but I left the list on the table, or the fact that my car is almost out of gas.

 

He is amazing on the guitar. Again, that might not seem like it is "for me" but he plays for me and I like that. It's calming.

 

He is better at thinking through things than me, so he can spot potential pitfalls that I might miss when it comes to some practical things.

 

He doesn't mind cooking once in awhile, and he's not too bad!

 

He forgives me in a way that lets him see me outside of the crap he decided to forgive. I'm not sure I put that just right, but that is big and very rare.

 

We ARE very different. Even though both of us have parents who are still married we grew up very different. And since I kind of grew up in cookie cutter land I was sort of a "maiden-name clone" when we got married, and I changed a lot once I got away from home. I heard somewhere that men marry women hoping they will not change and women marry men and then try to change them. As trite as it is that sadly describes us. I am not a lot like that twenty something girl in many ways, and he really is exactly who he displayed himself to be. I was the one who subscribed all these things to the potential problems like "he's just trying to stay pure" or "he's just trying to be above reproach" or "He just wants God to lead him to the right job." Instead of taking what I saw in those red flags at face value, I romanticized like it was some novel.

[Fluttershy]

 

The only thing I can add - is a debate my wife and I - and one other past therapist (not the current one) have had. Should you do things for your spouse your not really "in to" yourself? Specifically should you engage in sex if your not feeling like it?

 

My personal view (and that of the current therapist) is unless it is abusive or degrading or hurtful - yes, sex sometimes just needs to happen. But it has too be a shift from your pleasure to giving to the other. Sometimes people can not make that leap - take pure joy in the others joy. They need something for themselves.

 

I agree with this. Of course there is a limit to it like when you are sick or over tired and have already had sex daily or the last week. But, for men, as long as the equipment is working, turning off your own personal needs and focusing on satisfying your wife is an act of love. And for women, getting over the "I don't feel like it" and letting your husband do his thing (which realistically can take only a few minutes out of the day) and making an effort to respond to him (not just laying there with a blank look on your face) can lead to a healthier relationship. It is a selfish mindset that things you should only engage in sex with your spouse when you are in the mood. Giving, even in the marital bed, is an important part of every marriage.

I'm not saying you can never say "no". I am saying that you should pay attention to "why" you are saying no and "how often" you are saying no.

[Fluttershy]

Absolutely:

 

He is a good father. That may not "seem" to be for me, but it is. Being a good father is important.

 

He makes me laugh, and that is something very precious. He can make my laugh when I am crying (as long as he didn't make me cry lol)

 

He has always been very good at giving gifts. Gifts are not my "primary love language," but he puts thought into things. That shows care.

 

He has stood up for me on many occasions, and I appreciate that. In fact, as passive as he can be, when it comes to protecting me or the kids, he is formiddable.

 

I used to have a lot of bad nightmares. He always held me when I woke up really scared and screaming.

 

I will never forget when I was having one of our kids and I was just pathetic. I was a drama queen. But he just kept brushing my hair back and telling me I was doing great and he was proud of me.

 

He is patient when I ramble.

 

He notices details that I miss, like the fact that I might be going to grocery shop, but I left the list on the table, or the fact that my car is almost out of gas.

 

He is amazing on the guitar. Again, that might not seem like it is "for me" but he plays for me and I like that. It's calming.

 

He is better at thinking through things than me, so he can spot potential pitfalls that I might miss when it comes to some practical things.

 

He doesn't mind cooking once in awhile, and he's not too bad!

 

He forgives me in a way that lets him see me outside of the crap he decided to forgive. I'm not sure I put that just right, but that is big and very rare.

 

We ARE very different. Even though both of us have parents who are still married we grew up very different. And since I kind of grew up in cookie cutter land I was sort of a "maiden-name clone" when we got married, and I changed a lot once I got away from home. I heard somewhere that men marry women hoping they will not change and women marry men and then try to change them. As trite as it is that sadly describes us. I am not a lot like that twenty something girl in many ways, and he really is exactly who he displayed himself to be. I was the one who subscribed all these things to the potential problems like "he's just trying to stay pure" or "he's just trying to be above reproach" or "He just wants God to lead him to the right job." Instead of taking what I saw in those red flags at face value, I romanticized like it was some novel.

So can YOU learn to focus only on these good things, accept after all this time he has no desire to change, and be in a sexless marriage? Be with someone who fits all the other aspects and is a great companion? Someone you can share memories with and make future ones? Someone who will stay beside you even after you betrayed him? Can you teach yourself to not focus or dwell on the lack of sexual intimacy? Like if something medical happened to him that took away is ability to have sex? Be faithful and true to him without letting the no sex get to you?

[janedoe67]

So can YOU learn to focus only on these good things, accept after all this time he has no desire to change, and be in a sexless marriage? Be with someone who fits all the other aspects and is a great companion? Someone you can share memories with and make future ones? Someone who will stay beside you even after you betrayed him? Can you teach yourself to not focus or dwell on the lack of sexual intimacy? Like if something medical happened to him that took away is ability to have sex? Be faithful and true to him without letting the no sex get to you?

 

I don't want to answer this question, because it is the wrong answer.

 

No, I do not think I can live without touch, affection, intimacy for the rest of my life. A medical issue that suddenly ends the traditional sexual side of a marriage still leaves room (usually) for some type of intimacy and affection. If someone is in a coma, that is very different from "I don't want to even though it is important to you."

 

I believe I could learn to live with "can't." I cannot live with won't.

 

Like I said, everything I think I am supposed to be tells me that is the "wrong" answer. But t is the truthful one.

[Fluttershy]

I don't want to answer this question, because it is the wrong answer.

 

No, I do not think I can live without touch, affection, intimacy for the rest of my life. A medical issue that suddenly ends the traditional sexual side of a marriage still leaves room (usually) for some type of intimacy and affection. If someone is in a coma, that is very different from "I don't want to even though it is important to you."

 

I believe I could learn to live with "can't." I cannot live with won't.

 

Like I said, everything I think I am supposed to be tells me that is the "wrong" answer. But t is the truthful one.

 

No, it is not the wrong answer. The wrong answer is the dishonest one. And there is nothing wrong with needing the intimacy. It is a very important part of marriage, even Biblicaly speaking. And you are right, can't and won't are different but there are people who will change their POV (or lie to themselves) about the reason behind "no sex". I am not saying someone should or that everyone can but it does happen. Healthy? I'm not sure.

I feel for you Jane, and I hope you can make for yourself a better future.

[ConflictWithin]

I don't want to answer this question, because it is the wrong answer.

 

No, I do not think I can live without touch, affection, intimacy for the rest of my life. A medical issue that suddenly ends the traditional sexual side of a marriage still leaves room (usually) for some type of intimacy and affection. If someone is in a coma, that is very different from "I don't want to even though it is important to you."

 

I believe I could learn to live with "can't." I cannot live with won't.

 

Like I said, everything I think I am supposed to be tells me that is the "wrong" answer. But t is the truthful one.

 

Jane, I'm a guy, and 99% of the time I'm gonna be supporting a brah, but from your quote above don't you think you've answered you're own question you been seeking throughout in LS? And I mean that without any sarcasm, malice, or ill will. I truly feel for you in this tough catch-22 situation.

 

Absolutely:

 

He is a good father. That may not "seem" to be for me, but it is. Being a good father is important.

 

He makes me laugh, and that is something very precious. He can make my laugh when I am crying (as long as he didn't make me cry lol)

 

He has always been very good at giving gifts. Gifts are not my "primary love language," but he puts thought into things. That shows care.

 

He has stood up for me on many occasions, and I appreciate that. In fact, as passive as he can be, when it comes to protecting me or the kids, he is formiddable.

 

He is patient when I ramble.

 

He notices details that I miss, like the fact that I might be going to grocery shop, but I left the list on the table, or the fact that my car is almost out of gas.

 

He is amazing on the guitar. Again, that might not seem like it is "for me" but he plays for me and I like that. It's calming.

 

He is better at thinking through things than me, so he can spot potential pitfalls that I might miss when it comes to some practical things.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with your cookie-cutter upbringing, or your Christianity, etc. I'm afraid I'd have to agree with a certain OP who posted a couple notches above me. You are using the same old desperate rationalizations. Does it really, really, really matter that he plays the guitar to you? How about rather than playing the stupid guitar, he makes ravishing love to you? I feel that you are fighting a fight that you're so losing, and trying everything in the book to defend and justify your husband's asexual behavior. I think somebody mentioned that during your honeymoon, he insisted on watching TV? WTF.

 

If I recall, your very first posts dealt with your husband not wanting to let you go, despite your pleas. You want to know why? Because he cannot find anyone else out there who will put up with with his asexual behavior, and he knows this. Is why he has really no choice but to forgive you over and over again for your affairs. If I may be so bold as to further state, I think your husband is actually being narcissistic and selfish in not letting you go, and perhaps putting the guilt trip on you to keep you in check and make sure you don't leave. He's destroying your right to intimacy and happiness as a wife and lover. Ay, I want to say more but English is not my first language and what comes out sometimes get all garbled. But just to let you know, if I was you, I know I could not for long stand a sexless marriage. It is just too much, no matter how much I love my spouse. All primates require touch, intimacy. There has been studies where babies actually wither and die despite being fed a rich nutritious diet because they were never touched.

 

It just seems, reading your posts, that you are trying so hard to justify why you're putting up with your husband's lack of intimacy, any reason at all, and desperately clinging to it like it's the last shard of hope. But all the MC you've been doing doesn't look like there has been any improvement at all. And is why this is all so sad. You're trying to honor your marriage and stay by your husband's side, I get that. You're a good woman, you really are. I wouldn't mind a wife like you in the future. But do think your marriage currently is in a fair proposition?

[turnera]

I do think that he would be better off without me

If this is true, and you love him, then you owe it to him to leave him.

[miguelcervantes]

JaneDoe, is your husband sexually attractive to you ? to other women ?

[janedoe67]

This whole thread is moot.

 

He is a good man. He is a good looking man.

 

I am broken

 

End of story.

[janedoe67]

I would really like this out of public view so

 

 

rant rant rant everyone sucks I can't believe how unfair this is rant rant

 

 

Now maybe my family won't have to look over their shoulder?

[thummper]

Jane I'm sorry you're feeling so negative about yourself. It is NOT wrong to yearn for affection, the closeness of sex between husband and wife. If those things are missing, confusion naturally reigns. You are not worthless, as you mentioned in another thread.

[cozycottagelg]

Why do YOU have to be broken? Because you were unfaithful for a while?

 

Are you with your husband because you feel you owe it to him for taking you back after your infidelity? Do you have young children?

 

You deserve to be loved and cherished and to have your needs fulfilled. Everyone does. Who cares about the mistake you made in the past. It doesn't change what you deserve to have.

[whatatangledweb]

This whole thread is moot.

 

He is a good man. He is a good looking man.

 

I am broken

 

End of story.

 

You are not broken. You have needs that your husband can not meet. You feel trapped because he doesn't want you to leave and you don't want to hurt him. Hun, you are hurting yourself also. What is best for you? What will make you happy? You have tried to do what makes him happy by staying. It isn't working for either of you. You both hurt this way and you are destroying yourself. Really think of what you want your future to look like. Then take the steps to go there.

[twosadthings]

Dear Jane,

 

I never reply to any posts other than that/those of the original poster. That's why I was happy?, pleased? to see you resume posting on your thread.

 

What is not pleasing is to see the obviously horrible state you are in. It was obvious in the recent posts you have been making on other threads. The ones I couldn't bring myself to respond to.

 

I have posted on this thread before trying to sympathize with the circumstances you are living under and the unfairness of them. I am rarely so sympathetic with someone who has been faithless. I am a stranger and am only a wisper in the wind to you but I hope you get real help in your life. Everyone deserves happiness but no one can expect it to come from anywhere but themselves.

 

Please get help for yourself,

 

Twosadthings

[dichotomy]

You did wrong for sure.

 

But your husband is broken inside his mind/heart as well. He is asexual and is unable to provide the basic needs of his wife.

 

There is no easy answer here.