a serial cheater finally comes clean

[twosadthings]

Does your husband expect you to do without sex? If he does that's unrealistic of him. What is his expectation of what your choices are if you tell him you need intimacy in your life?

 

You have been a very active participant of late, which I thought meant you had resolved this part of your marriage. You should take care of your own life needs before trying to help others. I can see you have the need to be helpful, but you can be of greater assistance after you do.

 

Good luck,

 

Twosadthings

Edited October 15, 2013 by twosadthings
typo

[janedoe67]

I think one of the reasons I have posting posting more is because there are some things that I have never really been able to just.....say, and one of the things that the IC believes is that as long as I just deny any feeling that is not "society approved," I will just keep cycling through this frustration and denial thing. I know there is truth to that.

 

Another thing that I believe and that my husband has pretty much confirmed....there is nothing I need to "work out" with regard to sex. He loves me. I meet his needs. We are working thorugh the A. I am transparent and accountable and he knows all my "stuff." There is NC. His problem with sex is his problem. After over a decade and then more years of ME trying to be good enough to earn touch, I realize that my "job" is to be a goodf wife because it is the right thing to do. And because I do love him. He either will or won't work on his stuff.

 

Just like (exactly like) his neglect and lack of intimacy does not excuse my A, my A does not excuse him from being a husbnd if he plans to stay. Not if it is actually going to be a marriage and not an exercise in perpetual moral superiority and martyrdom. And he isn't the perpetual moral superiority and martyrdom type (thank GOD).

 

Besides, if people can use me to work out their issues, I figure I can use the forums to wotk out mine as well

[BetrayedH]

I think it is remarkably difficult for some waywards to put marital issues on the backburner while the BS works thru the trauma of an affair. And while some BSs can multi-task, others really can't.

 

I also think that there are other marital dealbreakers besides infidelity and that refusal of sex can be one of them.

 

My gut says you should try to be more patient with your H because he may be suffering a form of PTSD from all of this. I know it was debilitating for me. Only you can decide how much patience you have left in you. I only recommend more because you've said it's not like him to make this a permanent way of life.

 

But I also hope you find patience with yourself. The self-deprecating comments won't help you or anyone. I'd like you to go back and read that post I wrote for Sofie and imagine it was written to you. Your past does not have to define you, Jane. Keep making the difficult decisions of which you can be proud. Don't throw up the white flag.

[janedoe67]

I have no real troule being patient with H. HE is the man I betrayed and HE lives with me everyday, and so he KNOWS me.

 

If there is anyone who knows enough to make a sweeping value judgment about me, it's him. And yes, because the pain I inflicted was inflicted on HIM, then I can be verty very patient, even when he is angry or frustrated or needs to vent.

[twosadthings]

Dear Jane,

 

I am not, and never would excuse your affair(s). I do however think that a marriage without sex that is satisfying to both partners is not destined to ever be a happy one.

 

I don't remember if his issues are medical (physically or mentally) or ever have been explained but if you love him and he loves you I think you both have the responsibility to solve this problem. If he won't you should in my opinion exit the marriage before the opportunity to be unfaithful presents itself to you again.

 

Everyone deserves happiness when they work for it.

 

Twosadthings

[Steadfast]

Just like (exactly like) his neglect and lack of intimacy does not excuse my A, my A does not excuse him from being a husbnd if he plans to stay. Not if it is actually going to be a marriage and not an exercise in perpetual moral superiority and martyrdom.

 

There's few people here that I have more respect for than you Jane. Your dedication, courage and openness truly set the standard for wayward spouses seeking true fulfillment and a high quality life with purpose.

 

Bottom line: if your husband wants to be married to you, he must do whatever it takes to bring you sexual pleasure and intimacy. Not sex just for the sake of it, but to achieve the balance every marriage needs. People gloss over the importance of it. That's stupid. To reach a happy balance, it is his duty as a husband to make himself over to the best of his ability. Physically. Mentally. Emotionally. He must and he will...if he loves you.

 

That is marriage. Commitment. That is love. That is keeping his vows.

 

Kidd is right...be patient. But the needs -yours and his- will not change.

 

Live in strength and honor Jane. You're an inspiration.

 

*EDIT* I fear the issues present before your damaging actions paint a gloomy picture. I openly question his sexual orientation Jane. Let me tell you something about men (most men...in general) getting 'up' (sorry) for sex isn't that difficult. In fact, love isn't really needed when lust is present. Trying my best not to be too graphic, but desire isn't usually a big issue with a healthy adult male.

 

Wedging in a bit of understanding, I didn't lose desire for my ex when she cheated, but instead, after coming to grips with her selfishness. Big turn off. Before that I had strong feelings and desires. But more than anything? I loved and missed her.

 

Your devotion should eventually strangle any negative, leftover feelings Jane. No more excuses.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Steadfast

[AlwaysGrowing]

Jane, has your husband talked to his doctor about this issue? Often times, men would rather say they are not interested in sex if the real reason is ED. Men are more likely to have a difficult time asking for help in this department, as they feel it is emasculating. Even though it is not. It is just a medical issue.

[KathyM]

I'm thinking her husband may have sexual desire issues stemming from childhood. I'm counseling a woman currently who is having the same issues with her partner. Her partner never really bonded with a mother figure, so he has cut off all of his needs for love and affection as a defense mechanism. In any case, MC is needed for the OP to repair the marriage and to work on any issues that damaged the marriage, including their sexual incompatibility.

[Betterthanthis13]

I have exactly zero theories on why Janes husband neglected the physical intimacy portion of their marriage early on but it definitely baffles me because she seems like a really cool, interesting woman and I wonder sometimes how that is going for you guys now? I hear you talk snippets here and there but seems like you are always qualifying everything with acknowledgement of choice to cheat and I'm so past being convinced you believe cheating is a choice I wish I could hear about some other stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel like your perspective on LS is extremely important for people to read but for me... it starts to feels like a filibuster and I want to hear what else you have going on besides defense. I have wondered if your H feels similarly. I hope I am not being rude.

[janedoe67]

My husband grew up in a loving and traditional family. His mom is great, and he has really happy memories of his chidhood. She stayed home until he was in school, and though his dad was tough on the kids at times, he was also quick to say I love you, as was his mom. Their marriage is somewhat....practical?for lack of a better word. Sex was never talked about, and I have a feeling that his parents' relationship was never what one might cal extremely romantic, unlike my own parents who worked hard to be a "man and woman couple" even while we were kids. I know he only had one real girlfriend, and he did not go through any of that pushing the limits, make out in the back seat stuff at all. I would say that he is bordering on what someone would consider asexual, though he would be probably classfied as an "asexual romantic," because he still likes to be close to people n his own way. He was mistakenly thought of as gay from time to time because he wasn't the sportsy guy's guy kind of guy, and he was approached more than once by other guys in college, much to his distress and embarrassment. He has had a few unusually close male friendships in his life, but he maintains that nothing "intimate" ever happened. He did look aat both hetero and male/male porn when he went through that phase, and I thought it was odd that he connected with a couple of guys, one of whom called the house a few times and the other who WAS gay who my husband claimed to be trying to "help." He wil never admit if he has these tendencies.

 

We are good friends. He says he feels love for me, and there are times when I feel this...wave of intimacy and love and desire for him. I admit that I struggle with the urge to shrink from it because desitring and qwanting means the possibility of rejection. owever, I am making a concerted effort to share myself, to be honest about what is going on in me, to ask him how I can help him, to actively listen, to be consistent, and to be supportive. We hang out a lot and have good family time. We lay in bed chatting and watching bad TV most nights. There are regular hugs, and I always kiss him goodbye when I leave the house.

 

Our relationship is comfortable and we have a rich history together. I feel like when it comes to raising our kids and our spiritual family life we are on the same team. We can have fun. There are tense times and hard times, and sometimes I cry and he hibernates a bit. We have had a spat here and there, but we talk it through. I try to flirt in a lighthearted way from time to time with mixed results, but I try to let go of the results. Every week I ramble a lot in IC, and she/they help me think things through and suggest things to look at and strategies to try.

 

I feel a bit adrift at times and sad t times. Other times I am hopeful. And yes, every once in awhile, this feeling in my gut says that we will weather this and get to a good recovered-from-infidelity place, but that we may or may not stay married. And it bothers me some that I am ambivalent about that gut feeling.

 

From the time we first began chattin and joking in the mid 1980's, we had this fun and unique connection and abiding friendship. We still have that.

[harrybrown]

During these affairs, did you love the AP?

 

sometimes, trying to get my head around what she was thinking, Did you love your H during these affairs?

 

What did she think of me while having her affair? Does she just keep me for the paycheck?

[janedoe67]

During these affairs, did you love the AP?

 

No. I felt....wanted? I guess, and the touch felt good - and I don't mean really the physical sensation part but the human contact and intimacy and warmth

 

sometimes, trying to get my head around what she was thinking, Did you love your H during these affairs?

 

During the first one, if we are going to go with the "love as a feeling" idea, then no. I almost hated him. The feeling was probably pretty mutual. During the second I was ambivalent. The last time I felt love for him and felt responsible for him but had long since shut off the marital or romantic notion of love.

 

What did she think of me while having her affair? Does she just keep me for the paycheck?

 

Well, for my first A, he definitely wasn't the paycheck. I was, and the insurance, and the housekeeper. Later, we were both contributing financially. It was more about being afraid, being a coward, not wanting to be "the one who left" after all of the stuff.....Just being selfish and wanting to find a way to survive until the kids were out of school and I COULD leave. Yes, I know how awful that is. But it was how I felt then, sadly.

 

Having a rough patch right now, but I am not retreating, and I am not giving up.

[Steadfast]

Jane, you're there. That's a lot. I think you've proved to everyone (most importantly yourself) that you are not shy about taking full responsibility.

 

Question: when does the blame stop and the healing start?

 

I told you before that I would have forgiven my wife and tried if she was willing. The only reason I'm glad she wasn't was because...she wasn't. Does that make sense? Otherwise, we acknowledge the affair, the WS works on their issues and the BS picks up a shovel too. The idea is getting the work done, not to constantly remind ourselves who was at fault.

 

The idea is to move past the nasty part and into the part that provides joy, fulfillment and accomplishment. Where's the joy? Are you at peace?

 

Less obligation and more love I think. More togetherness. Less blaming.

[janedoe67]

sigh....

 

H hates his job and has decided that he wants to go part time and look for something else. Of course, he wanted my input, but any concerns expressed were quashed with insinuations that I must not care about his health.

 

sigh....

 

I was hoping we were going to be in a position to not bite our nails through the last week of the month for the first time in years.

 

No, I am not going to cheat. But I am going to take frequent long walks and possibly cry.

 

Oh, and no, there has still not been any type of physical intimacy since D-Day....or for many months before that.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's time for a sex therapist (someone like Dichotomy's). An ultimatum should come along with it if he resists. Life like this is not sustainable for you.

[KathyM]

I would suggest a marriage therapist who specializes in sex therapy. There are some who have taken extra courses specifically dealing with sexual issues, and have been trained specifically in sex therapy. But it sounds like there are several other issues between you that need to be resolved, such as financial responsibilities, communication, and other things. A good marriage therapist who has specialized training in sex therapy would be a good thing if your goal is to save the marriage. I agree with the poster above that the continued issues need to be resolved, rather than tolerated, and you need to insist that these issues are worked on.

[Journee]

Jane,

 

I'm sorry to read that you are in tough spot right now. I think that PP's have excellent advice about seeking therapy. Do you think that your H would be open to a sex therapist? Most people need and desire physical touch and intimacy. I know from your posts that you are one of them. Considering that this was an issue before DDay it needs to be addressed.

 

I really hope that he considers this. If it's important to you then it should be important him.

[Betterthanthis13]

Jane, your focus has been on being accountable for your choices since I've been here. I fully support your patience with H in his recovery and I am the last person who would even try to insinuate that he should "get over it", while on the other hand I am more than concerned with the lack of intimacy in your M months prior to DDay and nothing since. That doesn't sound like something you should feel pressured into having endless patience for, it just sounds like a miserable situation to be in.

 

What hope do you have for the future that he will be able to be intimate with you (more than amicable friendship) in the future? Do you think if you are patient and remorseful enough it will have a positive effect on his ability to be physically intimate with you? I don't have any judgements on time frame, but if you are feeling hopeless about the possibility of that happening EVER, maybe it's time to evaluate your choice to be in the M? This whole situation just sounds extremely painful and difficult from all sides. But you are a human being who should be ok with your desire to achieve happiness, that doesn't get negated or thrown out permanently because of prior choices, does it? Is there a way you guys could talk about this issue and come to any sort of long term resolution?

[Steadfast]

No, I am not going to cheat. But I am going to take frequent long walks and possibly cry.

 

Exercise is always good, even laced with bouts of sobbing. But I doubt you'll enjoy it much. Problem; everything will be the same when you come home.

 

The punishment continues, but I wonder who it's coming from. Everyone? Broken bones don't heal if you keep pounding on them. Neither do hearts.

[janedoe67]

I really don't believe my husband is punishing me. It isn't really his M.O. Well, on the very rare occasions in our marriage when he has, it is a full court press, as in blocking me out completely. He is friendly and funny and we spend a lot of time hanging out, and he is proud of my work. If he was punishing me he'd be absent all the way around.

 

I have been married to this man for a long time. This IS how it will go: At some point I will broach the subject. We will talk. The arrangement will be that he will try to think about it more. We will have the type of intimacy we have sometime soon after. I will try to be...assertive about it a week or two later. He will be tired but sorry and promises that he wants to be with me and to take a raincheck. I will either wait for him to cash in the raincheck (which may takes weeks or months) or I will eventually initiate again. If he remembers that he declined last time, he will likely be intimate. If not, he may or may not be. If I try to ease into it with hints or a couple of days of "warming him up," he will catch on, and the most data-evidenced response will be to counter it by beginning to make comments about his sugar or stress or such to put me off. I will have allowed myself to be emotional about it and hope for it, and I will be sad and go through that struggle where I wonder if I should just try to train myself not to need. And then I will either reject that idea or I will try that idea (again) and fail because I am just wired for touch.

 

Staying married means a legally binding friendship. I knew this before I ever had the first affair. I am choosing this life just as I chose the A's. It was easy to see very clearly how wrong and unhealthy and hurtful the A's were. That is a no-brainer. BUT, they also threw a kink in the rest of the thinking. Had I never cheated, then I would have a clear conscience about NOT consigning myself to that kind of life forever. Now that I have done the things I have done....it isn't as clear.

 

I feel kind of emotionless lately. However, I am very good - thanks to the family I grew up in - of being completely normal anyway (well, you know what I mean lol). When I stop and think it feels sort of surreal, like a giant dose of nyquil haha

[BetrayedH]

My thought on the subject is that there are more ways to break your vows in a marriage than just infidelity.

 

Your mistakes don't cancel out his. They are separate issues. I think you need to multi-task.

 

I also think that conflict-avoidance (this established pattern of sucking it up fo months at a time) will unavoidably build resentment. Part or much of that probably contributed to wayward behavior. I'm not suggesting that you'd be vulnerable to another affair but this just can't be good for your marriage.

 

If I may ask, what's your hesitation in confronting this more directly (insisting upon a sex therapist, etc)? Why would you continue such an obvious and dysfunctional pattern? Is it guilt? If so, is that a good reason?

 

I don't mean to give you the hard press; I think your patience is better than your previous coping mechanism. But I think a good dialogue is a good idea. To me, it seems obvious that there are better options for you than repeating the pattern. But I respect that I don't live your life; they're your choices.

Edited October 28, 2013 by BetrayedH

[Betterthanthis13]

What are your thoughts on finding compassion and forgiveness for yourself?

[janedoe67]

My thought on the subject is that there are more ways to break your vows in a marriage than just infidelity.

 

Your mistakes don't cancel out his. They are separate issues. I think you need to multi-task.

 

I also think that conflict-avoidance (this established pattern of sucking it up fo months at a time) will unavoidably build resentment. Part or much of that probably contributed to wayward behavior. I'm not suggesting that you'd be vulnerable to another affair but this just can't be good for your marriage.

 

If I may ask, what's your hesitation in confronting this more directly (insisting upon a sex therapist, etc)? Why would you continue such an obvious and dysfunctional pattern? Is it guilt? If so, is that a good reason?

 

I don't mean to give you the hard press; I think your patience is better than your previous coping mechanism. But I think a good dialogue is a good idea. To me, it seems obvious that there are better options for you than repeating the pattern. But I respect that I don't live your life; they're your choices.

 

There is no way H would go to a sex therapist. He would consider it humiliating and invasive.

 

It's hard to explain. He will talk about it if I press, and he says he loves me and doesn't want my needs to go unmet, but there is just no follow through of any kind. And if I press when I initiate, then I am uncaring because I am trying to push him when his sugar is iffy/he is tired/ he had an awful day/he feels down/his back hurts, etc. And if I tell him that I really need touch/affection/intimacy then he asks why I waited until I was needy.....and usually the reason I have waited is because he has been stressed/sugary/tired/back hurting, etc.

 

It's like he is noncommittally sympathetic during the talking, but he is not going to really DO anything. When I HAVE really pressed the issue, then he says he has to just shut down because he can't handle the conflict and he doesn't feel close to me.

 

There will come a time when I will feel I can press it again. And this time when that happens, I will be prepared to make the high stakes choice if he continues to stonewall. But every time I strayed, what I really did - in addition to all the other bad stuff - was push that timeline out farther and farther because honestly, if I left NOW after him being so willing and anxious to try to recover, that would just be mean. And he needs me; he tells me this every few days. It might be that if he can feel safe with me again he will reach "that point," things will change.

 

Understand, evidence is not in favor of that happening. But I need to at least try.

[AlwaysGrowing]

My heart goes out to you Jane.

 

I wish there was an easy answer.

[janedoe67]

My heart goes out to you Jane.

 

I wish there was an easy answer.

 

I think this is the thing I am going to have to just....deal with.

 

I really WANT an answer that doesn't hurt anyone. That isn't possible. Staying hurts, leaving hurts...both of us...and the kids.

 

There is not going to be a magic solution that falls out of the sky and spares everyone. I'm going to have to weigh and pray and think and work and then make the overall best choice...or the least worst one.