a serial cheater finally comes clean

[janedoe67]

He was diagnosed with type I diabetes when he was in high school, and he has been taking AD's for about 8 years.

[janedoe67]

Selfish question for BS's.

 

I am really fighting not to give in to depression right now. It feels like everything - the A, the wishing to be held, the job stuff, blah blah.....I feel on the verge of tears 24/7. I told my husband that I was working hard not to be depressed, but of course he is stressed as well. How much can I ask for his help? I worry about the blackness that seems to be nipping at my heels.

[janedoe67]

There is some good news at least. We both have jobs and will be moving closer to his brother and his wife and kids soon. That stress being off of us is helping already.

[AbeNormal]

Selfish question for BS's.

 

I am really fighting not to give in to depression right now. It feels like everything - the A, the wishing to be held, the job stuff, blah blah.....I feel on the verge of tears 24/7. I told my husband that I was working hard not to be depressed, but of course he is stressed as well. How much can I ask for his help? I worry about the blackness that seems to be nipping at my heels.

 

Jane,

 

Hang in there. And I hope your husband does as well. It will be very hard on him, as I can tell you understand.

 

When the dark clouds gather, perhaps think about (your own adaptation of - as pertains to your marriage) the story/Greek-mythology of the phoenix.

 

Best wishes.

Edited July 14, 2013 by AbeNormal

[aliveagain]

Through every storm the sun will shine, just one day at a time((((janedoe67)))).

[Journee]

Selfish question for BS's.

 

I am really fighting not to give in to depression right now. It feels like everything - the A, the wishing to be held, the job stuff, blah blah.....I feel on the verge of tears 24/7. I told my husband that I was working hard not to be depressed, but of course he is stressed as well. How much can I ask for his help? I worry about the blackness that seems to be nipping at my heels.

 

 

You would be surprised the number of BS that console their wayward's after DDay. I was one of them. I love my husband and when I see him in real pain (which is rare. He keeps everything inside. ) it all but kills me. He broke down on our DDay and as much as I wanted to be hard and not care. ...I held him and cried with him.

 

You can't imagine the conflict for a BS after DDay. To love someone so much. Even after the pain and the rain.

 

(((((Jane)))))

[janedoe67]

See and in a situation like this you think she'd stand by him. Its not his fault if he has conditions that bring down sex drive.

 

No, it isn't. And I knew when I married him - because he had been diabetic for several years - that our sex life would likely decline as he got older. The problem is....you don't have to have sex to touch. You don't have to be able to get an erection to kiss your wife. And you don't have to have intercourse to meet her need for physical intimacy. What he wanted was for me to just "get over" needing sex and affection.

 

This isn't about me hitting the door because he is diabetic. Honestly, I have given my share of shots, midnight juice crises, glucagon injections when he was unconscious, that me not being willing to take care of him isn't even a consideration. He won't even go get his own test strips.

 

This is about way more than libido. NOTHING excuses an affair. The choice to cheat is a CHOICE, and it is the cheater who makes it.

 

That being said, this is not a novel where the evil woman abandons the dying man. This is someone who will not take responsibility for his health or even try to find a middle ground with regard to taking care of his wife's need for closeness. Doesn't excuse cheating - never WILL - excuse cheating. But as much as people would like to fit every marriage crisis into one partner "black" and another "white" in a black and white scenario....it ISN'T usually that simple, if one is willing to actually look at the marriage objectively and look in the mirror.

 

I have noticed that a lot of people on forums are terrified of the idea that the BS might have any flaws because if they acknowledge the flaws they are afraid that the WS will somehow think their A was just fine. I'm not an idiot. I know that cheating was MY choice and I am 100% responsible for that. I know that my husband's shortcomings do not in any way excuse my betrayal. I can make the distinction without feeling "okay" about my affair.

Edited July 15, 2013 by janedoe67

[Steadfast]

The problem is....you don't have to have sex to touch. You don't have to be able to get an erection to kiss your wife. And you don't have to have intercourse to meet her need for physical intimacy. What he wanted was for me to just "get over" needing sex and affection

 

This seems a contradiction, considering you went outside the marriage to have sex. Still, I suppose one doesn't seek an affair partner to cuddle.

 

That being said, this is not a novel where the evil woman abandons the dying man. This is someone who will not take responsibility for his health or even try to find a middle ground with regard to taking care of his wife's need for closeness. Doesn't excuse cheating - never WILL - excuse cheating. But as much as people would like to fit every marriage crisis into one partner "black" and another "white" in a black and white scenario....it ISN'T usually that simple, if one is willing to actually look at the marriage objectively and look in the mirror.

 

So, after many pages of heartfelt expressions by you and many posts offering advice and encouragement, you again justify your actions. You're very intelligent and make sure you don't condone them, but you do repeatedly insist you were backed into a corner. This seems an ongoing struggle for you...a push-pull that takes you around and around. Your husband has not honored his vows, and if your words are true he won't be changing much. Other than invent a time machine so you can go back and make better choices, you must resolve and work with what you have.

 

In my opinion, your marriage ended long ago. What you are left with is a battered relationship and the remains of a family. Instead of working on the repair, you remain intent on discovering what caused the damage. You keep looking, hoping that a therapist, friend, LS poster or God himself will drop down and tell you who and what's to blame. What will that do in the end? Give you a scapegoat? Will it fix anything? Will it solve a problem? You already know right from wrong Jane...you've listed many of there here, and done so repeatedly. You keep looking back. It's done. Now is now.

 

I have noticed that a lot of people on forums are terrified of the idea that the BS might have any flaws because if they acknowledge the flaws they are afraid that the WS will somehow think their A was just fine. I'm not an idiot. I know that cheating was MY choice and I am 100% responsible for that. I know that my husband's shortcomings do not in any way excuse my betrayal. I can make the distinction without feeling "okay" about my affair.

 

Great. You've got it all figured out. But you knew that before and it didn't keep you from cheating again. You say; "All I want is a intimacy with my husband" but if you had that, whose to say you wouldn't want something else you can't have, he can't give you, or you can't materialize on your own? We only get what we want in life IF WE GO OUT AND GET IT.

 

Sadly, even those dedicated enough to do that often realize later it isn't what they wanted, it's what they thought they wanted. Back to square one.

 

I read your thread, then I read it again. IMO, you shouldn't have married him and you're much, much better off being an ex-Baptist. Read your bible closer Jane, God doesn't interfere. We decide. All of it. No "guiding hand." No games. No holy protocol. Those who want God go to Him by His word.

 

I can't fix you or your marriage but I can say that loving wives give without expectation. If they have a loving husband, that's never a worry.

[AbeNormal]

No, it isn't. And I knew when I married him - because he had been diabetic for several years - that our sex life would likely decline as he got older. The problem is....you don't have to have sex to touch. You don't have to be able to get an erection to kiss your wife. And you don't have to have intercourse to meet her need for physical intimacy. What he wanted was for me to just "get over" needing sex and affection.

 

This isn't about me hitting the door because he is diabetic. Honestly, I have given my share of shots, midnight juice crises, glucagon injections when he was unconscious, that me not being willing to take care of him isn't even a consideration. He won't even go get his own test strips.

 

This is about way more than libido. NOTHING excuses an affair. The choice to cheat is a CHOICE, and it is the cheater who makes it.

 

That being said, this is not a novel where the evil woman abandons the dying man. This is someone who will not take responsibility for his health or even try to find a middle ground with regard to taking care of his wife's need for closeness. Doesn't excuse cheating - never WILL - excuse cheating. But as much as people would like to fit every marriage crisis into one partner "black" and another "white" in a black and white scenario....it ISN'T usually that simple, if one is willing to actually look at the marriage objectively and look in the mirror.

 

I have noticed that a lot of people on forums are terrified of the idea that the BS might have any flaws because if they acknowledge the flaws they are afraid that the WS will somehow think their A was just fine. I'm not an idiot. I know that cheating was MY choice and I am 100% responsible for that. I know that my husband's shortcomings do not in any way excuse my betrayal. I can make the distinction without feeling "okay" about my affair.

 

Nope, you are not an idiot - as is of course obvious. Very intelligent and (most importantly) emotionally intelligent.

 

Most men in this situation could not ask for a more rational response/behaviour. Still, the pain might be nearly unbearable for you husband... It could prove to be too much for him.

 

Do not be discouraged by posts on this site. Having been betrayed myself, my first response is "scorched earth". But my perhaps more thoughtful (enlightened??) response, based upon what what you have written - is to hope for the best for you and your husband.

 

I really appreciate your straight talk/thoughts.

 

I wish you the best.

Edited July 16, 2013 by AbeNormal

[Betterthanthis13]

Jane, I'm coming into this thread really late, but I've read through most of it.

 

What in your opinion does your husband want now?

 

Earlier you said you thought he wanted you to "just get over" your need to want physical touch and intimacy in your marriage. Do you think after all this time that is what he still wants? Do you feel that since you have had all these affairs you now "owe" that to him somehow, or do you think he thinks you "owe" that to him?

 

I know everything is way more complicated than that, and you and he deeply love each other, I'm just looking to isolate what you think he wants/expects from you sexually going forward in the marriage

[janedoe67]

In response to justification, nothing justifies my affair. I was not back into a corner. I know I had other choices, and I chose adultery. It was the wrong choice. I think it is possible to discuss problems that exist in a marriage without justifying adultery.

 

As far as intimacy goes, and not needing sex to touch, that is a valid point. I guess I should have been clearer and blunter - it isn't necessary to have intercourse and he didn't have to be a high libido guy to lovingly give ME the intimacy I needed. We talked and discussed this endlessly. I told him it wouldn't bother me one bit if he put things like "hug wife," "kiss wife," "go to bed with wife and touch her" every few days on a calendar. He wanted it to be "real and spontaneous." Except that real meant never.

 

Again, none of that justifies adultery, and none of it "made" me cheat. I did that on my own.

 

After all this, I am not sure what I want versus what I deserve versus what he wants. I take that back. I know what he wants. He wants us to stay together and be very good friends and finish raising our kids together and be with each other. As he says on numerous occasions, he needs me. "I need you." Those are his words.

 

I struggle with my gut and the tapes in me head and wonder which ones are truth and which ones are the things I was told and to an extent am still told. That because I cheated I cancelled out my "right" to have any needs. It does sound noble. Not sure it is indefinitely possible. We haven't been physically intimate since D-Day, though we have snuggled on the couch from time to time and pecked goodnight. He has not initiated. If he had I would have, of course. But part of the reason I haven't (and yes I know this is not good) was because I am terrified of hysterical bonding. I don't want to get "used" to having sex because it makes settling back into the "no intimacy" life even harder. I would rather just deal with what reality will be like than have what I need dangled in front of me, so to speak, only to slip through my fingers.

 

I think as long as I never "go there" to begin with, I can probably be fine.

[Betterthanthis13]

It sounds like you "get it"- one of the things that drive BS's up a wall is a WS that doesn't clearly see their affair was their choice, independent of whatever circumstances or seemingly impossible problems existed within the marriage. They sometimes "get it" for a moment when it is being explained to them but easily slip back into justification mode.

 

The old problems in the marriage are still the old problems in the marriage. (Long standing issues)

 

The infidelity is a separate issue that becomes a marriage problem and needs to be addressed and dealt with

 

Your BS cannot "win" the long standing marriage issues by default because of your infidelity. It doesn't work that way either.

 

You can't be "cancelled out". You are allowed to have needs. You are a human being.

 

Just like you had to "get it", eventually your BS is going to have to "get" this difficult concept too in order to get some balance into this mess. The first step is that you understand it though. You are still a person. You have displayed some rotten, selfish behavior over the years, but you are not your behavior. You deserve to love and be loved and have your needs met too. Not be a martyr. I would recommend that you not be the person to explain to him that he "get it". That might be a job for a therapist some time in the future. But there is no good that can come from you feeling like your needs should be cancelled. You are not worthless. You can't be cancelled. Ok I'm repeating myself.

 

Everything sounds like it is in such chaos at the moment, you are brave for posting your feelings on here and I hope you keep doing it. "Finally coming clean" like you titled your thread has got to feel good. All this self investigation will pay off in the long run. This guy once said "There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."

You started- so you're doing good!

[Betterthanthis13]

I disagree that you can be fine **forever**in a sexless marriage.

 

For the time being- YES.

[janedoe67]

Not at all. Everyone has flaws. Cheating is just one huge humdinger of a flaw.

 

I didn't care if my WS thought her A was justified or not. I knew the truth. And that is that it wasn't. No affair is.

 

That is exactly right. And I think that is an important factor - the fact that YOU knew the truth regardless of what she may or may not have thought.

 

I didn't get that as a WS the first time around - that idea of knowing myself/the truth and that being enough. I did my husband a huge disservice. Once healing was taking place and new patterns of transparency were established and he knew that the wife he lived with for all those years had repented (and he knew me better than anyone else who knew about my infidelity), he no longer defined me by the affair. However, instead of accepting his gift and living that way, I allowed the voices of other people to keep me in a perpetual state of mea culpa martyrdom.

 

My husband deserves better than that. He deserves a whole wife, even if my wholeness irks others. My duty is to God, to him, to myself, and to my children.

[Steadfast]

I disagree that you can be fine **forever**in a sexless marriage.

 

For the time being- YES.

 

Realistically? No. And my point, made better by this direct statement.

 

I am not sure what to make of the 'I'll have to learn to live without, I deserve no more' attitude. In other posts a very clear anger/need is shown. This is the push-pull I mentioned but frankly? How could one not struggle?

 

Happiness is found with a healthy balance. This is the opposite; one high libido, one non-existent (not to mention the gay porn...uh-oh) and each dealing with the other while using anti-depressants. Modern romance?

 

There's been a ton on conversation on this thread. It's exhausting to read, let alone live. Marriage is work, but it shouldn't be this hard. Is it possible to fix a marriage that was always broken? Was anyone ever truly happy?

 

I do admire your approach, your honestly, and your willingness to own up Jane. If my ex was even half as loving as you I'd still be married.

[janedoe67]

I definitely remember being happy. I remember intimacy. And there are glimpses of it and moments of it now. It just feels like I am trying to fill a bucket with an eye dropper or something. I am sure he feels the same way, just about different things.

 

And yes, there IS push and pull. I can read through this thread and see which days I was struggling with the terribleness of what I have done and days when I just wished I could crawl up into a lap and be held for a very very long time.

[AbeNormal]

See and in a situation like this you think she'd stand by him. Its not his fault if he has conditions that bring down sex drive.

 

Responding to yourself is beyond bizarre....

[aliveagain]

How much of this do your three children know regarding all the men you cheated with? Did you ever breach their sanctuary by bringing any of the men into their home? What do you feel when you look at your children since their part of this too? Do you think you lost anything? Is any of this enough to stop you in the future?

[turnera]

All the men?

 

WTH, man?

[janedoe67]

No one has ever been to my home. The worst OM with regard to my children was the first because they knew him. They do know it has happened again, and they have general knowledge of how we are dealing with it, and I have expressed my regret and apologized to them (because a cheater IS betraying the kids as well).

 

I am trying to navigate REAL, complete, from the farthest corners of the inside out change this time. That means being honest and blunt about what I did and what I let myself become. It also means being honest with myself about all the things I allowed to fester and all the things I tried to ignore that built resentment. It means looking at two issues - first, the A's that I wrongfully and willfully chose to have. Those are no one's to own but mine. It also means looking at the marriage I lived/live in, and dealing with the issues in that. Cleaning up my side of the street and then choosing what to do in response to my husband's choice to clean up or not clean up his side of the street - HONORABLE choices.

 

The first time I could have been the broken by my sin, repentant, self-sacrificing wayward spouse poster child. I also wrongfully thought that meant yielding up any needs I ever had or would ever have. That didn't work. And it shouldn't have because that is not a marriage, that is martyrdom.

 

This time both me and the marriage will eventually change. Or I will change and then we will decide how to end the marriage.

[aliveagain]

I am a serial cheater. And I hate it, but apparently not enough.

 

I wanted to say that up front because it sums up everything. I’ve been married 21 years. In the 12th year of our marriage I had an affair with someone in my same field. My marriage was horrible and had been horrible for awhile, but it was still wrong. I felt like crap...and I told my husband about it. We managed to recover. He actually was able to forgive me, and I never ever ever wanted to hurt him like that again.

 

Six years later our marriage was just like it always was. I wanted a divorce had wanted one for awhile. But when my husband found out I went to see a lawyer he just....got really really upset and desperate. He begged me to stay and said he would do anything. We have 3 kids so I wanted to try, but nothing changed. This time I knew so much better, and I knew how to avoid getting to close to someone but I chose to do it again. I joined one of those married people sites and met up with someone. That was horrible and I threw up after he left. I let myself get played online by a couple of online players. I kept going back to the idea of divorce and separation, but my husband didn’t want me to leave. During the last 4 years I have had several affairs and one night (or day) stands. And chats online too. I went to an online group of sex addicts anonymous, but honestly I wonder if I am too far gone.

 

A couple of weeks ago my husband found something on my computer, and almost all of this stuff came out in several really long talks. I don’t understand why he doesn’t want a divorce, and I don’t get why he doesn’t want me to file either. He basically has made it clear that he won’t leave and if I leave he will make it as hard and long and drawn out as possible. The other night he asked me why I hadn’t cried or anything and I told him I just feel numb. He wanted to start talking about what I needed and I couldn’t stand it because I don’t have the right to need anything and then I did cry and couldn’t stop. I want to love him but I am afraid to love him and I am really messed up. He is a good guy who has only been with me and my track record now is a mile long. He won’t yell at me or call me names or anything and I wish he would.

 

I do not want to be this person anymore, but I am afraid it is too late.

 

Men, I can't quite tell just how many, 4 or more and one event may have occurred in their home just from her comment that she threw up after he left, but that could have just as easily been a hotel room.

[janedoe67]

I wanted to answer the question about what I have lost. Of course I very nearly lost my marriage, and I may still. He has every right to walk away at any moment. I have lost his trust. I have lost my children's respect. Oh, they love me, but I know they do not respect Mom right now, and I don't blame them. I have lost my credibility in the trust department. I lost my integrity and honor. I caused my marriage to lose its innocence. I lost my moorings and very nearly lost my faith.

 

I believe I have lost enough to never want to do that in the future. Everything in me is working to make it authentic and permanent this time around. As for the world around me (i.e. kids and husband), it will take a lot of time and a lot of consistency for them to believe that. As it should.

[aliveagain]

Jane, as a betrayed spouse multiple times over it is sometimes hard to reply to posts such as yours without having a little edge in my reply(triggers), for that I apologize. I push myself to be as neutral as I can as part of my own healing and a genuine want to help others that are going through the pain that I went through(far worse than loosing both my parents). How do you handle not feeling like an outsider in your own family, you have betrayed all 3 of your children and your husband? Do others in your family know(parents, sisters, brothers, cousins, aunts), what about friends and associates?

[janedoe67]

You do not have to apologize, aliveagain. Actually, I find your posts to just be bluntly honest.

 

I do feel a bit like an outsider at times. I think that part of that is just the consequence of what I have done. We tend to shield ourselves from letting people who betray us "in", so of course my family is going to feel that. I worry about the kind of things I have modelled for my kids. I hope that modelling real change will help offset some of that, but only time will tell. As far as extended family, my brother and sister know, but not my parents. My husband is very firm in not wanting to tell his family, and I am not sure how I feel about that. Then again, I do feel it should be his call. I have felt like an outsider with his family for several years, and not because of any affair. Let's just say I am very different from them. I think my bright colors do not mix well with their extremely muted neutral tones lol. Of course my husband says he feels like the black sheep of the family as well because neither of us are as hyper fundamentalist as we used to be.

 

Weirdly, and I know this sound contradictory, I believe in justice. Maybe justice is the wrong word because in this case there is no justice. But I believe actions SHOULD have consequences. Even as a kid, if I disobeyed, I expected there to be a consequence. So while it hurts at times, I am not shocked and dismayed that having affairs actually has consequences. I am always amused when a WS realizes the BS no longer trusts them or wants to look at their phone and then cries "That's not fair!" Seriously??

 

Ugh, that just made me wonder about something. Not sure I'm ready to share what because if there is any validity to it I just uncovered another ugly part of my insides. I need to ponder first.

[turnera]

My husband is very firm in not wanting to tell his family

 

neither of us are as hyper fundamentalist as we used to be.

Good call on his part.