How do most women view themselves?

[xxoo]

I'm pretty, but I'm under no delusion that I am classically beautiful. My picture looks plain next to Angelina Jolie.

 

My husband truly believes I'm beautiful, and he earns huge bonus points for seeing me that way

 

I'm completely ok being less than beautiful in other people's eyes.

[Taramere]

I think both are attractive, the former in small amounts of course.

 

Like when a woman were to say to me, "I'm OK I guess, some people probably think I'm attractive." That would be extremely attractive to me, especially if she were in reality attractive.

 

It seems to me most people would prefer a woman who would say, "I'm really pretty" which I see a lot here.

 

That's odd to me. But maybe it's a different culture I was raised in.

 

The internet's a bit of a jungle, with lots of predators hunting down weak targets. A woman admitting insecurities about her looks on the internet is like an antelope dragging an injured leg behind it. But then, so is a woman who makes noise about thinking she's beautiful.

 

A forum like this offers an ideal opportunity for people to express themselves without the baggage of other people's preconceptions (based on the way they look). However, the way we look is a big part of our identity and it's hard to leave it behind completely. I think people, male as well as female, are probably most likely to start bringing their looks into the equation when they don't get the level of attention through the written word that they're used to getting in real life as a result of their looks.

[Anela]

There are three things certain in life: Death, taxes, and women expressing dissatisfaction with their appearances, most likely as a means of fishing for compliments.

 

No, it's usually out of genuine insecurity.

[TheBigQuestion]

No, it's usually out of genuine insecurity.

 

Commonly? Yes. Usually? That's a bit of a strong word. In any event, insecurity certainly fuels the need to fish for compliments.

[Pompeii]

I actually find that women have more self-esteem and more opportunities to get external validation than guys do. I've found that on a lot of my friend's Facebook pages, if they have a picture up that shows them in a flattering pose or light, they will get compliments from members of the opposite sex and their fellow women as well. Even if its just an average picture, she will inevitably get compliments from people. Combine that with all other sorts of social outlets such as Twitter, Instagram or whatever, and you have women being buffeted with large amounts of validation from friends and strangers.

 

For guys, its pretty much the flip side of the equation. Unless you're in the upper echelon of facial aesthetics or have a rock-solid body, you can pretty much forget about it. I do see some of my friends get complimented on their looks from time to time but its nowhere near the amount of compliments women receive on a daily basis. Men just aren't simply socialized to prize their looks as much as women are. My friend who is an aspiring fitness model gets hordes of girls commenting on his pictures (he's been propositioned for sex several times) and it doesn't hurt that he has classically handsome features: chiseled nose, thick wavy hair, and a jawline that could cut steel. Males like this are *incredibly* rare among the population and they experience a lot of female attention as a result.

 

Men from when they were younger have pretty much no support from anyone with the exception of their family (even then, that's reaching sometimes depending on who the guy is) and have no validation of their skills, inherent worth, or what they bring to the table overall. The average guy is being told constantly from women, magazines, and society that he isn't man enough, that he isn't aesthetic enough, that he isn't good enough at what he does. Men derive their worth from three things: the women (amount or quality) they are able to attract, the income that they make, and their position within society. Is it any wonder why men in minimum wage jobs feel like losers and are perpetually depressed? It's because they've been told for ages that they're at the bottom of the barrel. I worked in retail for 2 and a half years and I saw this first hand. A man can derive self-worth from other places, but it takes an incredibly strong man to break free of the societal programming and pressures placed on him.

 

While I do feel that women experience insecurity over their looks as whole, I still feel that a large majority of them are better off in terms of self-esteem when it comes to men. Women have a lot of outlets for expressing that insecurity whether it comes to a status on Facebook or venting to friends about how they wish they were more attractive. Men simply don't have that, men are told to keep a stiff upper lip and soldier on. I've met some incredibly strong females that have a solid foundation where they don't need to be validated on for beauty but that trait is also very rare among the population.

 

In the end, it doesn't really matter because insecurity is a permissible trait among females for most men (considering she is moderately attractive) but it is an undeniable death knell for males. Therefore, for men the insecurity is internalized and only released in the most unhealthiest of outlets: at the bottom of a bridge or the barrel of a gun.

 

I still feel that most average women view themselves attractive enough to the point where they will turn down average guys consistently and then want the guys who are above-average or elite in terms of physique, status, or monetary resources. Then, when those guys are acquired, their true insecurity comes out about how they feel they are not attractive enough to keep his interest.

 

As far as attractiveness for the sexes goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - yes, but if one denies universal attractiveness, they are a fool. Universally attractive features for men and women are an undeniable way to make sure that you attract the most people possible at first impression. The more people you attract - the more options you have. That's why I stress aesthetics SO much. The masculine V taper for men isn't just something that was invented by bodybuilders, it's been proven by science time and time again and triggers a gut level, instinctive attraction in women. Women are by and large attracted to an aesthetic and solid posterior chain (traps, delts, lats, glutes, biceps) and will judge a man heavily on this area. That's why I encourage all males to hit the gym as often as possible, as hard as possible, and to eat as well as possible.

 

 

This is what I have ascertained from being in different environments with different people, seeing things I wish I hadn't, and experiencing things that I wish I could erase. If anyone wants to disagree with me, that's fine but I feel that I've hit the mark more or less on this issue.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Pompeii

[Anela]

Commonly? Yes. Usually? That's a bit of a strong word. In any event, insecurity certainly fuels the need to fish for compliments.

 

Nah, the insecure are less likely to fish for compliments, because they wouldn't expect people to respond with anything good.

 

People tend to give me compliments when I'm not expecting them (most of the time). You get used to being torn down, which I've dealt with before, and in my life now (every single day).

 

And women as a whole are bombarded with ads for anti-aging creams and pills, weight-loss pills and diets, you should wear this and that, and definitely not THAT, and the hair must be shiny, those teeth had better be sparkly white, and even if you already look perfect, you will be photoshopped. Not to mention your mothering skills, your house-cleaning skills, and keeping on top of all functions (I'm not a part of that group).

Edited June 19, 2013 by Anela

[MrCastle]

And women as a whole are bombarded with ads for anti-aging creams and pills, weight-loss pills and diets, you should wear this and that, and definitely not THAT, and the hair must be shiny, those teeth had better be sparkly white, and even if you already look perfect, you will be photoshopped. Not to mention your mothering skills, your house-cleaning skills, and keeping on top of all functions (I'm not a part of that group).

 

Men are bombarded with penis enlargement pills, powders and other things that maximize your muscle gains, as far as who is promoted on magazine covers--I'm seeing a lot of Gerard Butlers and Channing Tatums and not a lot of short and/or skinny men.

 

Oh yeah, as far as every modern sitcom (even animated ones) goes:

 

-husband is a moron

 

-all he does is sit on the couch and eat junk food

 

-is sex starved/has to come up with schemes in order to get more sex from his wife or flat out beg

 

-mother is the head of the household and the brains of the house, she also is good at her job, both her professional one and her duties at home, and loves it, while the guy is a lazy slacker both at work and at home and goes to comical lengths to avoid any kind of additional work or family time.

 

As far as women having to live up to domestic expectations, what about men being the provider, protector, and handyman. Among other things.

 

Just read some of the posts from women on this forum alone. "Penis size matters, sorry but it's true." "Height matters, sorry but it's true." "Yes I make money but I couldn't date a man who made less than me, sorry but it's true."

 

I will give you that women have it harder when it comes to living up to unrealistic physical expectations, but that's where it ends.

 

Both sexes have their burdens.

[miss_jaclynrae]

I'm pretty, but I'm under no delusion that I am classically beautiful. My picture looks plain next to Angelina Jolie.

 

My husband truly believes I'm beautiful, and he earns huge bonus points for seeing me that way

 

I'm completely ok being less than beautiful in other people's eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly how I feel.

[Anela]

Men are bombarded with penis enlargement pills, powders and other things that maximize your muscle gains, as far as who is promoted on magazine covers--I'm seeing a lot of Gerard Butlers and Channing Tatums and not a lot of short and/or skinny men.

 

Oh yeah, as far as every modern sitcom (even animated ones) goes:

 

-husband is a moron

 

-all he does is sit on the couch and eat junk food

 

-is sex starved/has to come up with schemes in order to get more sex from his wife or flat out beg

 

-mother is the head of the household and the brains of the house, she also is good at her job, both her professional one and her duties at home, and loves it, while the guy is a lazy slacker both at work and at home and goes to comical lengths to avoid any kind of additional work or family time.

 

As far as women having to live up to domestic expectations, what about men being the provider, protector, and handyman. Among other things.

 

Just read some of the posts from women on this forum alone. "Penis size matters, sorry but it's true." "Height matters, sorry but it's true." "Yes I make money but I couldn't date a man who made less than me, sorry but it's true."

 

I will give you that women have it harder when it comes to living up to unrealistic physical expectations, but that's where it ends.

 

Both sexes have their burdens.

 

I didn't say that men don't deal with it, too - I was talking about insecurity that I, or women that I know (just about all of them), deal with every day. being told that we're fishing for compliments (or being accused of it), is just another one of those things.

[Pompeii]

Men are bombarded with penis enlargement pills, powders and other things that maximize your muscle gains, as far as who is promoted on magazine covers--I'm seeing a lot of Gerard Butlers and Channing Tatums and not a lot of short and/or skinny men.

 

Oh yeah, as far as every modern sitcom (even animated ones) goes:

 

-husband is a moron

 

-all he does is sit on the couch and eat junk food

 

-is sex starved/has to come up with schemes in order to get more sex from his wife or flat out beg

 

-mother is the head of the household and the brains of the house, she also is good at her job, both her professional one and her duties at home, and loves it, while the guy is a lazy slacker both at work and at home and goes to comical lengths to avoid any kind of additional work or family time.

 

As far as women having to live up to domestic expectations, what about men being the provider, protector, and handyman. Among other things.

 

Just read some of the posts from women on this forum alone. "Penis size matters, sorry but it's true." "Height matters, sorry but it's true." "Yes I make money but I couldn't date a man who made less than me, sorry but it's true."

 

I will give you that women have it harder when it comes to living up to unrealistic physical expectations, but that's where it ends.

 

Both sexes have their burdens.

 

 

Hah. As I already explained in my ultra-lengthy post, men get pressures from a lot of external sources.

 

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a guy with an average physique ever on the cover of "Men's Health". Most of the guys on there are pretty jacked. I don't think I've ever seen a man on the cover of GQ who isn't a heartthrob to women and isn't dappered the **** out. I understand that these are ideal males but to too many women, they are the standard. A lot of men simply don't have the time or body type to attain that physique, and a lot of men don't have the cash to afford those clothes. I don't look at the cover of Vogue and lust after Scarlett Johanssen look-a-likes.

 

I also don't even remember the last time I saw a movie or television show that featured a strong, masculine man with dominant frame control who was also in a movie or television show. I suppose you could say James Bond but most men will simply never reach his level of charisma, presence, and attitude without a serious paradigm shift and extreme reprogramming. Most of the males today in a lot of roles are slackers, losers, idlers, or schlubs. Most of these guys are pretty much comedic relief and command little to no respect from their peers or even the television audience. Big Bang Theory is a sham of a show for this reason. And people lap it right up.

 

For this reason and many others, I typically don't consume a lot of modern media. We simply don't have male actors on the caliber of Marlon Brando, Paul Newman, or Clint Eastwood. DiCaprio, Depp, Clooney, Pitt are great and stand out. Not into the Seth Rogan and Michael Cera self-depreciating, "lovable loser" type acting.

[Anela]

I also don't even remember the last time I saw a movie or television show that featured a strong, masculine man with dominant frame control who was also in a movie or television show. I suppose you could say James Bond but most men will simply never reach his level of charisma, presence, and attitude without a serious paradigm shift and extreme reprogramming. Most of the males today in a lot of roles are slackers, losers, idlers, or schlubs. Most of these guys are pretty much comedic relief and command little to no respect from their peers or even the television audience. Big Bang Theory is a sham of a show for this reason. And people lap it right up.

 

For this reason and many others, I typically don't consume a lot of modern media. We simply don't have male actors on the caliber of Marlon Brando, Paul Newman, or Clint Eastwood. DiCaprio, Depp, Clooney, Pitt are great and stand out. Not into the Seth Rogan and Michael Cera self-depreciating, "lovable loser" type acting.

 

Justified is one that I love, that shows men as both competent and idiots (the idiots tend to be the criminals). They also have unexpected "heroes" here and there.

 

Breaking Bad, shows men who are vulnerable in ways, and also egocentric, and so on. Intelligent, or charismatic.

 

Strong men on Game of Thrones.

 

There have to be more.

[MrCastle]

Justified is one that I love, that shows men as both competent and idiots (the idiots tend to be the criminals). They also have unexpected "heroes" here and there.

 

Breaking Bad, shows men who are vulnerable in ways, and also egocentric, and so on. Intelligent, or charismatic.

 

Strong men on Game of Thrones.

 

There have to be more.

 

Yeah but I said sitcoms. Comedies.

 

Modern Family, Mike And Molly, Big Bang Theory, Rules Of Engagement, Family Guy/Simpsons all have these stereotypes. And Everybody Loves Raymond, King Of Queens, and some others that are in syndication.

[Anela]

Yeah but I said sitcoms. Comedies.

 

Modern Family, Mike And Molly, Big Bang Theory, Rules Of Engagement, Family Guy/Simpsons all have these stereotypes. And Everybody Loves Raymond, King Of Queens, and some others that are in syndication.

 

I was responding to Pompeii.

[MrCastle]

I was responding to Pompeii.

 

Whoops. Maybe men are morons

 

Anyway, yes, both sexes have unrealistic expectations to live up to.

[todreaminblue]

I think most reasonably-grounded women realistically acknowledge that they don't necessarily look like Scarlett Johanssen. That doesn't necessarily equate to being down on themselves or having problems with self-esteem. In fact, the whole point of learning to have healthy self-esteem is learning how to not tie your self-worth entirely to your looks.

 

And desiring compliments from loved ones is an entirely different issue, too. Don't have to have low self-esteem to enjoy a compliment.

 

someone on the weekend said that i looked amazing....they said my countenance was different ...i took that as meaning my face looked shining alive....that is how i felt.........

 

 

 

and i feel that...not from my looks but i think my insides are showing......that is how i took it....and i love the fact people can see my insides....lol......it matters more to me that compliment...than some guy saying ooooh looking hot deb..you look sexy today......its like yeah ....the clothes are nice huh sexy wasnt the look i wanted.........i enjoy the right type of compliments that dont equate to my bra size from men anyway....when a lady said to me that outfit looks nice i like the prints i appreciate that too....meant i matched well.....i dont have a low self esteem because i enjoy a compliment...and i always say thankyou..... i am realistic....and i like it when people can see my heart in my smile.....or that i make an effort with what i wear.....it is just nice and i appreciate it.....is that low self esteem...probably on this site it is.......... .deb

[ltjg45]

Whoops. Maybe men are morons

 

Don't feel too bad. You look smart when compared to me.

 

I don't even want to think about my mistakes, esp. the one I made this week ago that cost me $45 just to pure stupidity.

[Ripnet]

You need to focus STRONGLY on this sentence.

 

This makes you sound bitter and jealous. You might think you're not, but it's pretty apparent.

 

 

That's a fact for a lot of guys who can't even get a girlfriend or even dates for couple of months.