Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[Yasuandio]

Keep this in mind, Mrs. S.,

 

I agree with Sunny on most points. What he is doing is not right. He is indeed turning his bad behavior onto you. And he seems to be making the girl his priority.

 

Here is where I disagree with Sunny. The threat to the marriage did not come when he made the girl the priority today. The threat came to the marriage when you threatened a divorce some time back.

 

Now. You have some choices.

 

Do you want to be right? Or do you want your marriage?

 

If you want your marriage, you gotta get a grip on the anger. Yes it is justified - but, it needs to be expressed in a productive manner if you desire to attempt a reconcile. Yas

 

Yas

[imtooconfused]

The threat to the marriage did not come when he made the girl the priority today. The threat came to the marriage when you threatened a divorce some time back.

 

If you want your marriage, you gotta get a grip on the anger.

 

Mrs.S., please listen to ^^^^ this.

[Mrs.S.]

Thank you SO much for your support. Embarrassingly, I AM a mess and I AM spinning. Yas, that is exactly what the counselor said. I was able to talk to her for an hour on the phone today (another thing I am not proud of - calling her for an emergency talk). I just hope it's not too late.

 

She basically told me what you all are telling me. And she has more insight on him. She said that I have to stop making this girl the focus of what's going on. She said from our joint sessions and in the session she had with him alone, she has much empathy for him. She said that right now, he truly hates himself, believes that he has ruined his life (from past mistakes), really cannot see any good in himself and in his future and that he is spinning as well. She said that he sat on her couch and cried when he told her these things. And she said he also cried when he told her how much he's always loved me. She said that he truly is confused right now. What she hears me telling her (I recounted this past week to her, including this morning) is that he is doing everything he can to stay in this marriage, that he still has a very strong connection to me and that he consistently has been asking me to support him and give him patience and some peace to sort it out. She said that I'm constantly coming at him, attacking him, making demands, asking him to decide and define his feelings, telling him to love me now or never - and to him, that's a complete lack of love and support from me. She said he is handling things wrong and basically, he's acting like a little boy. And this girl is part of that. She said that he is using her as a tool to self-destruct because that's ultimately what he believes he deserves and what will happen. She said that they talked about the girl together and that she means nothing to him. She said that she told him the same thing - this girl is a tool for him to self-destruct and perpetuate his feelings of despair and lack of self-worth.

 

She said that my threatening divorce and ending things every day might sound logical and is a natural response, but that it's actually the safe route. She said that the vulnerable and loving route is to tell him quietly that I love him and support him and want him to sort this out for himself. Period. That sent my head spinning. I asked her if that means I should just swallow the fact that he's been lying to me for the past month and a half about being in contact with her. She said that of course it's not right and it's selfish and it's hurtful and immature, but that's where he is right now with everything. I asked if I should just turn my back on this thing and let him continue it because he needs it to feel better. How can that be right for me? She said that she's not telling me to do one thing or another, but as a professional whose guidance I am seeking, she is telling me that I cannot and should not focus on the girl. She is a tool for him and he's being a little boy and this is what little boys do. She said I should focus on being a quiet, peaceful supportive wife and friend to him. And that I should try to re-establish the connection and feeling of my love for him that he has been telling me over and over that he is missing. She said there's no guarantee that nothing will happen with this girl, but she's telling me that she means nothing to him and I am going to push him towards divorce if I make any demands right now. She also said that all of the hurtful things he's saying to me - he doesn't believe in true love, he doesn't believe in having one person you're meant to be with, he doesn't care if he's hurting me, etc. - is "vomit." She said people vomit because they're sick. I have to recognize it as this and understand why he is vomiting.

 

She had to get off of the phone with me at that time and I asked her again, "So you think I shouldn't worry about this girl?" She said bluntly - "Kelli - I'm going to say this kindly to you because I'm your counselor. But I've told you three times what this girl is to him and you keep asking me. I don't mind because this is my job, but imagine how your husband feels when you come at him and attack him exactly like this. I'm telling you right now what you're doing. You're doing it to me, too. You have to stop."

 

That definitely opened my eyes. I'm still struggling with the fact that he has been lying to me and making this girl a priority and that he's said so many hurtful things to me. But you're right - the threat to our marriage was my threat of divorce. And I think perhaps even though my actions and reactions are purely from fear, he is accurately perceiving it all as me tending to my needs and ignoring his. He's never asked me for a divorce or said he wants to leave or even said he doesn't love me. He's asked for time and patience and for me to show him that he is MY priority. I thought I was doing that by talking and crying and writing emails and being clingy, but whose needs was I really prioritizing? Mine. I just wish this girl wasn't in the mix. That's making me completely unnerved. And the deceit and lying and feelings he has for her make it very hard to feel any safety at all in this.

 

I hope it's not too late. I hope that he doesn't tell me tonight that he's had enough and that he's leaving.

 

Do you think the counselor is telling me the ugly truth? I'm going to look up the 180 and the Marriage Busters stuff today also. Thank you ALL for your support. I live across the country from my family and my best friends and this has been a very lonely experience. Plus my friends have kids and lives and jobs and I feel even more pathetic calling them all the time. So thank you.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[2sunny]

There's not one damn thing to consider with him if he's not getting rid of his OW.

 

He's cheating.

 

No need Togo along with his bad behavior.

[Mrs.S.]

No daily "hello" text from him today. Is he leaving for real this time?

[imtooconfused]

Do you think the counselor is telling me the ugly truth?

 

I don't like that the counselor appears to be taking sides. And I don't like that the counselor is sharing details of his private sessions with you. A good counselor should do neither of these things. But it appears that the counselor has the best interests of your marriage in mind by revealing these things to you. And because of that, you would do well to heed her advice.

 

I can add only one additional observation. My opinion is that your focus on the other woman appears to me to be extremely exaggerated, contrary to how 2sunny feels. You seem to be the only person who is making her a priority. Can you not see how if the person who is supposed to be his best friend threatens to abandon him, that he might turn to someone else's shoulder to cry on? It is easy for me to see why he would choose a stabilizing force in his life in a time of crisis. This has all appearances of being the platonic relationship that he says it is, just as if it were a guy drinking buddy.

 

I strongly believe that if you have the willingness to be a stabilizing force in his life, then he will eventually turn away from the OW, and right now you are anything but that.

[Mrs.S.]

imtooconfused - that's good insight. I was wondering why/how much the counselor would reveal, but I do trust that, like you said, she has the best interests of our marriage in mind and hasn't revealed anything that could be perceived as a betrayal of confidentiality.

 

I hope you're all correct in that my focus on the girl is over exaggerated. Though she isn't just a drinking buddy-type person to him. He told me a month a half ago that he had "real" feelings for her and that he found her attractive and wondered about what it would be like to be able to pursue her. He apologized profusely and said it was a mistake and he was naive and he let it happen and it was wrong. He reassured me a week ago that all contact was cut off and that he did have passing thoughts about her, but that was all. Then I found out today that all of that was a lie. So I don't believe that it's a platonic friendship. And she knows he has feelings for her, too.

 

But you're right - she is a non-threat to him, she's not a big emotional investment and she's stable. She's safe. I'm not right now and he's got a lot more invested. So I see what you're saying about becoming a stabilizing force so he doesn't need to lean on this "friendship" with her.

 

It just feels like the ground is tilting under me whenever I think about it.

[Yasuandio]

Thank you SO much for your support. Embarrassingly, I AM a mess and I AM spinning. Yas, that is exactly what the counselor said. I was able to talk to her for an hour on the phone today (another thing I am not proud of - calling her for an emergency talk). I just hope it's not too late.

 

She basically told me what you all are telling me. And she has more insight on him. She said that I have to stop making this girl the focus of what's going on. She said from our joint sessions and in the session she had with him alone, she has much empathy for him. She said that right now, he truly hates himself, believes that he has ruined his life (from past mistakes), really cannot see any good in himself and in his future and that he is spinning as well. She said that he sat on her couch and cried when he told her these things. And she said he also cried when he told her how much he's always loved me. She said that he truly is confused right now. What she hears me telling her (I recounted this past week to her, including this morning) is that he is doing everything he can to stay in this marriage, that he still has a very strong connection to me and that he consistently has been asking me to support him and give him patience and some peace to sort it out. She said that I'm constantly coming at him, attacking him, making demands, asking him to decide and define his feelings, telling him to love me now or never - and to him, that's a complete lack of love and support from me. She said he is handling things wrong and basically, he's acting like a little boy. And this girl is part of that. She said that he is using her as a tool to self-destruct because that's ultimately what he believes he deserves and what will happen. She said that they talked about the girl together and that she means nothing to him. She said that she told him the same thing - this girl is a tool for him to self-destruct and perpetuate his feelings of despair and lack of self-worth.

 

She said that my threatening divorce and ending things every day might sound logical and is a natural response, but that it's actually the safe route. She said that the vulnerable and loving route is to tell him quietly that I love him and support him and want him to sort this out for himself. Period. That sent my head spinning. I asked her if that means I should just swallow the fact that he's been lying to me for the past month and a half about being in contact with her. She said that of course it's not right and it's selfish and it's hurtful and immature, but that's where he is right now with everything. I asked if I should just turn my back on this thing and let him continue it because he needs it to feel better. How can that be right for me? She said that she's not telling me to do one thing or another, but as a professional whose guidance I am seeking, she is telling me that I cannot and should not focus on the girl. She is a tool for him and he's being a little boy and this is what little boys do. She said I should focus on being a quiet, peaceful supportive wife and friend to him. And that I should try to re-establish the connection and feeling of my love for him that he has been telling me over and over that he is missing. She said there's no guarantee that nothing will happen with this girl, but she's telling me that she means nothing to him and I am going to push him towards divorce if I make any demands right now. She also said that all of the hurtful things he's saying to me - he doesn't believe in true love, he doesn't believe in having one person you're meant to be with, he doesn't care if he's hurting me, etc. - is "vomit." She said people vomit because they're sick. I have to recognize it as this and understand why he is vomiting.

 

She had to get off of the phone with me at that time and I asked her again, "So you think I shouldn't worry about this girl?" She said bluntly - "Kelli - I'm going to say this kindly to you because I'm your counselor. But I've told you three times what this girl is to him and you keep asking me. I don't mind because this is my job, but imagine how your husband feels when you come at him and attack him exactly like this. I'm telling you right now what you're doing. You're doing it to me, too. You have to stop."

 

That definitely opened my eyes. I'm still struggling with the fact that he has been lying to me and making this girl a priority and that he's said so many hurtful things to me. But you're right - the threat to our marriage was my threat of divorce. And I think perhaps even though my actions and reactions are purely from fear, he is accurately perceiving it all as me tending to my needs and ignoring his. He's never asked me for a divorce or said he wants to leave or even said he doesn't love me. He's asked for time and patience and for me to show him that he is MY priority. I thought I was doing that by talking and crying and writing emails and being clingy, but whose needs was I really prioritizing? Mine. I just wish this girl wasn't in the mix. That's making me completely unnerved. And the deceit and lying and feelings he has for her make it very hard to feel any safety at all in this.

 

I hope it's not too late. I hope that he doesn't tell me tonight that he's had enough and that he's leaving.

 

Do you think the counselor is telling me the ugly truth? I'm going to look up the 180 and the Marriage Busters stuff today also. Thank you ALL for your support. I live across the country from my family and my best friends and this has been a very lonely experience. Plus my friends have kids and lives and jobs and I feel even more pathetic calling them all the time. So thank you.

 

This is the only post I have read thus far - and I want to give you an unadulterated response.

 

You are in possession of information you would not under normal curcumstances be privvy to. Your councilor crossed the line, and violated her confidences between your husband and herself. She had no right to tell you these things without your husband's authorization, notice, or privlidge. That said, you have valuable insight now. What you do with it could rock or DISTROY your's and his world. Most likely the later, when you lose your temper over this girl.

 

This is why theripist and doctors have an oath of trust and confidence to their respective patiencts - even in mariage counciling. Her professional conduct is inexcusable.

 

That said - you have valuable insight. You also have the POWER now to destroy your husband's faith in professional advice now and into the future; and give him pause to put faith in female professionals - and females in general. This is the mistake you theripist made. She could have her licence suspended for relaying that extremely private information to you. It is very uncommon for a man to reveal such inner most intimate details. She really stepped in it.

 

Have you told her secrets in private? Would you like her to discharge your private consultations to your husband? What she did today is a complete outrage in my opinion. But today's events in this conversative also speak to your demanding character - you obviously broke her. I am telling you - do not EVER quote the material you learned today.

 

I do not know what else to say at this point. I am going to read other poster's response. I know - however, mine is probably going to seem over the top - I don't care. I have spent my life trusting therapist - and I would die if anyone knew what I told them. If anything is revealed - I have a right to be in control of the material - this is the law in this countryIt is not cheap to go to therapy, or MC, and the least one can expect is privacy.

 

For your own good, please, stop thinking about if "it is too late," and your neediness, and ehat you want NOW, NOW, NOW. You are coming off excessively clingy - and open your eyes and see that today you actually manipulated a professional to violate her oath. You have you husband's inner most private thoughts. God. What more do you want? I hope you keep it to yourself. I pray for you so much tonite, I promise. I pray that I can offer good advice to you -and that I can be helpful to you, honey. But I feel strongly these things had to be said, before I read any further. Do find the research. I know you will.

 

Yas

 

PS please excuse terrible spelling and errors, Yas cannot find her glasses as ususal.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Yasuandio

[2sunny]

He's lying and he's cheating. I need to ask why you would choose to stay with a man like that?

[Mrs.S.]

Hmmm. Yas- I do appreciate what you're saying. It also is completely true that she didn't reveal to me anything that he hasn't said in our joint sessions and/or to me directly, which I've told her in sessions prior. Honestly. She just kind of summarized what he has said and how he feels to make a point to me. My husband doesn't talk often about his feelings and when he does he's very honest about it. It's a double-edged sword, depending on the situation. If I had told her something in a session that would bring clarity and help to my struggling husband, I would by all means want her to reveal it to him. I have no secrets from him regarding my feelings and up until a few months ago, he was open with me. But I agree, I would be concerned if she revealed secrets or damaging information.

 

Anyway. I didn't hear from him all day then he texted at 7:15 to say, "On my way home, see you soon." I said I was at dinner but I'd be home soon. I got home a while later and he asked about dinner and we chatted. Then he handed me the tv remote so I could watch what I wanted. We chatted lightly while watching tv for about an hour and then I said goodnight. He replied "goodnight babe." And that's where I am leaving it tonight. I honestly have no desire to be sweet or to be hugged or smiled at by him right now. The lying thing makes me angry and I frankly am trying to stop caring whether he talks to this girl or not. If he does and he won't stop, then he's the one who is ruining things and being a bad spouse, not me. At this pint, he needs to pursue me and make amends for lying. I'm not freezing him out because I do love him and want to work it out, but it makes my stomach turn thinking about all the lies he's told me this past month. Even if they were just about his friendship with her and nothing more. He's addicted to her attention and he won't stop contact with her. Why should I be the one desperate for redemption? He's the one who should be pursuing my trust and forgiveness.

 

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

[Yasuandio]

Kelli,

 

Do you see how late it is? This situation of yours has weighed heavy on my mind this evening into the morning hours.

 

I believe you need to see a medical doctor for an extended intervention as soon as possible, and tell them exactly what has happened with your husband and this therapist. No matter the strength and ability you possess that enabled you to manipulate this therapist in your cause and neediness - I have concluded tonight, that she nonetheless violated you, as well, by putting all this information in your hands.

 

It is not your job to cope with the private dynamics your husband shared with her. You are not in a stable position to function with this information - no one can really say the appropriate time or place for you to know such things, (if at all), other than your husband, himself.

 

Your husband will be operating day by day with no idea that his confidence has been violated. If he knew what you knew - his paradigm would be greatly, and swiftly shifted - and not necessarily in a predictable direction. Imagine the shoe on the other foot. You know him best. Would he inntially be very very shocked and embarrassed? Then - scared, frieghtened, like you?

 

This is why you have to speak with another professional on how to handle this information you have. It is an obvious conclusion that at some point, you are going to slip. You're just human. After much thought tonight - I don't think there is any way on God's green Earth that I could sit on a bombshell like this, especially with a third person in the picture. And, at the same time - I can easily see, if you throw this material up to him, in defense or anger, more distruction is going to follow. It is a Catch 22.

 

You are a powerful woman, my dear. You must realize that you need medical attention to help get your powerful psyche under control. And now, you need theraputic assistance to cope with the intimate metephors your husband developed in his mind to attempt to convey his inner most feelings to this therapist. I wish I was a professional, and could better advise you. But all I can do is toss it back and forth in my mind. It is really messy - vomit is the word for it, all right.

 

Your medical doctor will know what to do about this, and will be able to recommend a proper therapist or psychiatrist to solve this disaster. If you do not follow up with this carefully reasoned suggestion I am giving you - then it is in your hands (and this dumb "blank-blank" therapist's hands, perhaps). Kelli, please, in the morning, when your mind is fresh, please, ask yourself, is that a good idea?

 

For now - I continue to recommend you say nothing, except for general greetings at the house (hello, goodby, please, thank you) - you cannot lose with that. No cry, no boo-hoo's, nothing. Go shopping and buy yourself a really nice outfit, some girly bath oils, a new scented candle, a box of good chocolates, and schedule a new hair style at the salon. I want to hear all about this when I wake up in the late afternoon. Study and implement the 180's. I will check on you later. And again sorry for typos.

 

Yas

[gators417]

Wow, I'm guessing this type of stuff happens often, because you and I are in the exact same situation. I've been married for about 6 years with 2 kids. I found out recently that my wife was having an "emotional" affair with a guy at work...texting, emailing, talking about personal issues at work, etc. He recently told a co-worker that he had feelings for her, and she confirmed that she had developed feelings for him as well. This absolutely devastated me. After this all happened, she cut off the email and texting with him, but still works with the guy. A few days after all of this went down, we decided to work on the marriage, and seemed to be closer to each other than ever before. After a couple of weeks things started to go downhill again, and she started to be distant again. She insisted this had nothing to do with the guy at work. In fact, she said she had shut down all communication with the guy to "not tempt fate". She just recently told me that she's not sure she wants to be with me anymore and that she would have ended the marriage a couple of years ago if it weren't for the kids.

 

The above is a very summarized version of what has happened. There's more here, obviously. I can't cover 6 years of marriage in a few paragraphs.

 

The bottom line for me is that I can't be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I need to take control of my destiny, and ultimately I'm not going to change my wife's mind about how she feels. I've done everything humanly possible to help her work through whatever she experiencing, but it's not enough. I'm at the point where I'm getting ready to leave so I can have some control over the situation. You should do the same.

[Mrs.S.]

Thanks for sharing your experience, gators417. I definitely can empathize with how this feels. How long did it take you to arrive at the conclusion that she wasn't willing to come back to the marriage and be committed to it? That's what I'm struggling with right now.

 

An update from last night - he came to bed and said goodnight to me again. I mumbled good night and I rolled over away from him. I felt him put his arm on my back and he kept it there for a while. I said nothing.

 

This morning we didn't really speak until we got the the counselor's office. I basically reiterated what I had told her yesterday about the past week and finding out that he was still talking to the girl at work. He was super defensive and said that he's sick of making sacrifices for me and he's not sacrificing one more thing. He said that it's not that she's his priority, but she's his friend and he's not giving her up for me. Every time the counselor asked him how he felt or for his reaction to my feelings, he just shrugged and said that he really doesn't care that much about how it makes me feel. She talked about not giving up on marriage and how it's worth it when you get to the other side of this and how this is the "meat" of marriage, the happy and easy stuff isn't the "meat" of what makes a marriage strong and real. He just shrugged. She finally asked him what he needs this week. He spat out, "Some peace and quiet." She asked me if I could put my fears aside this week and take a step back and do that. I looked directly at him and said, "If that's what you need, I will give that to you." He kind of laughed and said, "Yea, we'll see." He didn't even say thank you or that he appreciates that or anything. He just laughed and shot me down.

 

We got home and I was crying a little bit and he said to me, "You gonna make it? You sound like you're having a heart attack." I was like, "what?" He said, "I was asking you if you're ok." I said that I was fine. As I was leaving for work, he gave me a half hug with some pats/slaps on the back that he does when he doesn't really want to hug me. In infuriates me because I find it condescending and patronizing. Like he doesn't love me enough to really hug me so he'll just satisfy me with some swift pats on the back. He told me to have a good day and to try not to be so upset.

 

I really feel like I can't deny it anymore. He is completely checked out. His attachment and connection to the girl at work, however platonic he says it is, is more important than his connection with me. She's the one he goes to when he wants to talk or tell a funny story about work or vent about a meeting. It's no longer me. She's the one he thinks of first. He has told me and the counselor that he really doesn't care about my feelings. He's told both of us that he doesn't believe I'll ever change and that he's not willing to give me a chance. This whole situation isn't even just about my mistakes, but he's turned it into that. Why should I have any hope?

 

He hasn't mentioned moving out or divorce in a realistic sense. But how long should I let him have his cake and eat it, too, meanwhile I am going through the most excruciating suffering that I could ever imagine? He hasn't contributed anything to our marriage in a long time.

 

My birthday is two weeks from today. I go overseas on a trip with a girlfriend three weeks from today. I am thinking that if there's no progress and he can't take down his walls and put his hatred for me aside and make a commitment to us, I will ask him to move out by the time I get back from my trip. I want to give it one more chance and I will give him his peace and quiet and show him that I do care. But what more can I do after that? He is hurting me worse every day and he is less and less concerned with what it's doing to me. And he's nurturing a connection with another girl. What choice do I have?

[2sunny]

That counselor sounds terrible!

 

He wants his own way = then he needs his consequences.

 

Yes, he's choosing to keep another person involved in your M... What consequences do you think are appropriate for that?

[Yasuandio]

From your post #23, I got the impression that your therapist shared details of your husband's private sessions with you. That doesn't seem to be the case in your post today. I must be a numbskull.

[Mrs.S.]

Hi Yas - yea, I kind of summarized as best as I could in the other post, but she didn't share anything that hadn't already been said between the three of us or that I had told her that he said to me.

 

2sunny - I'm just still in disbelief that he cares this little about me. In three months I have lost the husband I believed was my best friend, protector, true love and partner. I'm inclined to say flat out - You clearly want this girl in your life and you clearly don't want me in your life. I'm not ok with that and you have to leave if our marriage and my feelings aren't a priority for you. But I don't want to be too pushy and give ultimatums like the counselor and everyone on this thread is warning me against. But how much of this do I continue to take?? He isn't willing to give anything to our marriage right now. Not only that, but he's giving his best self and his best thoughts and his best energy to another girl.

[2sunny]

I think your thoughts, feelings and plan that your gut is telling you is spot on.

 

I'd act on what that looks like - no matter what anyone else would be telling me.

 

From my own experience... My gut leads me in the right direction... I've forgiven and R many years ago...and then 10 years after that I ended it, due to more infidelity.

 

I wished earlier in my M I had listened to my gut and imposed more severe consequences back then ( rug sweeping didn't help) - in the end I refused to betray myself by thinking I had to sacrifice my self respect to stay.

[Snowflower]

I've been in a somewhat similar situation as you, Mrs. S. Your thread was kind of painful to read.

 

Not sure what happened with the counselor divulging some of your husband's thoughts to you, perhaps he gave permission to share this with you, IDK. I doubt she shared that information without his knowledge. It would be a violation of health-privacy otherwise.

 

You need to detach from this whole situation. Breathe.

 

I know it's hard. I've been there. My H and I have/had a similar dynamic.

 

If you stay calm and stable, so will he. If it takes every ounce of your emotional strength and reserves, do that. Look at how quickly he responded when you were calm and quiet-friendly with him the other night? He tried to touch you.

 

The office "thing" is something else to deal with, separately.

 

In the meantime, stay calm. If you feel yourself getting upset about the office thing, walk away. Pretend you have to run out to your car to get something, anything, so that you don't say something you'll regret.

[Mrs.S.]

Hi Snowflower - thank you so much for your message and your encouraging words. Is your story on a thread here somewhere? I'm interested in hearing how it played out and how you handled it. You and your H made it through, though.

 

I'm reading the 180 stuff. It seems a little overkill, but it's pretty much in line with what everyone is suggesting anyway. I'm trying very hard to stop looking at this girl from work as someone who he desires intimacy (on any level) with and who he cares about as a potential romance, and instead as a tool for him to feel like he's reclaimed the control and independence he feels as if he's lost. It hurts beyond belief to know he has a "special" bond with someone other than me, but I have to try and put that aside, at least for the next week or so. I can't force him to stop doing anything. He needs to choose to come back.

 

Last week when I gave him "space" the first time, he did come to me every day for a connection in some fashion. And by the time last weekend rolled around, he wanted to be close and he told me things would work out and that we'd be ok. HOWEVER, Monday came and emotionally, he disappeared again. AND unknown to me at the time, he was still involved with the girl at work. Plus when the counselor asked him about how last weekend felt to him, he shrugged and said "It was ok." Basically, he discounted everything that we said we had felt together. So...part of me feels like that was unauthentic anyway, which leads me to wonder if there's anything to hope for at all.

 

As for the counselor, I'll say it again to everyone - in my effort to generalize, I may have conveyed the information in a way that seemed she breached confidentiality. I do NOT believe that she did. Everything she said had been said in front of me before. She was summarizing all of the information for me to make a point clear. That's all!!

[Snowflower]

Hi Snowflower - thank you so much for your message and your encouraging words. Is your story on a thread here somewhere? I'm interested in hearing how it played out and how you handled it. You and your H made it through, though.

 

My story (at least that part )is not posted here on LS. I hadn't found LS at that point.

I'm reading the 180 stuff. It seems a little overkill, but it's pretty much in line with what everyone is suggesting anyway. I'm trying very hard to stop looking at this girl from work as someone who he desires intimacy (on any level) with and who he cares about as a potential romance, and instead as a tool for him to feel like he's reclaimed the control and independence he feels as if he's lost. It hurts beyond belief to know he has a "special" bond with someone other than me, but I have to try and put that aside, at least for the next week or so. I can't force him to stop doing anything. He needs to choose to come back.

 

This is where it gets tricky.

 

The girl at work is a definite problem. He allowed himself to crash into her and now she is somewhat involved. My advice regarding the office girl is slightly different than my last post because I've thought about it some more.

 

2Sunny has some valid points and she is very front and center, no-holds-barred regarding the cheating aspect. Your H has invited a 3rd person into your dynamic. He has greatly complicated the situation.

 

The 180 approach, while it seems extreme, which I understand, would be perfect in your situation. My suggestion is to do some more reading on it and then execute it.

 

If nothing else, the 180 will give YOU the space and strength to face the ending of your marriage. It allows you to detach from the situation while finding your own strength. At the very best, the 180 will make your husband realize what he is about to lose. IMO, your H will be responsive to it because of what you write here:

Last week when I gave him "space" the first time, he did come to me every day for a connection in some fashion. And by the time last weekend rolled around, he wanted to be close and he told me things would work out and that we'd be ok.!

 

But then this below is a problem and it is very likely because he had contact with that girl again. Your mini attempt to detach caught his attention and worked to a small degree because of your success last weekend. But then look what happened when he talked to the other girl: (and yes, he is involved with her)

 

HOWEVER, Monday came and emotionally, he disappeared again. AND unknown to me at the time, he was still involved with the girl at work. Plus when the counselor asked him about how last weekend felt to him, he shrugged and said "It was ok." Basically, he discounted everything that we said we had felt together. So...part of me feels like that was unauthentic anyway, which leads me to wonder if there's anything to hope for at all.

 

!

 

So, you need to continue to detach through the 180. I know it seems counter-intuitive. But if the worst happens, you'll be more emotionally ready for it.

 

Read the 180 again and think about it.

 

A form of the 180 is what finally got through to my husband when I had finally had enough and told him that I wanted him to be happy, I wanted to be happy (more importantly!) and if our marriage was causing him unhappiness-which it seems is what your husband thinks, then you don't want you or your marriage to hold him back. You'll let him go. That is what I told my H. Not to be manipulative but because it was the sanest choice.

[Mrs.S.]

These are all good thoughts. And I will start the 180 process. My question still is - how does the other girl fit into this? Is it really logical to ignore what he's doing with her for the sake of this 180 process? It's like I'm letting him hurt me deeply, betray our marriage, enjoy a connection with another girl and ignore our marriage vows - just because he seems to be having a hard time with life. How is this ok?? When and how do I insist that he stop?

[Balzac]

My read is that you have and he refused. You're going in circles here.

[Snowflower]

These are all good thoughts. And I will start the 180 process. My question still is - how does the other girl fit into this? Is it really logical to ignore what he's doing with her for the sake of this 180 process? It's like I'm letting him hurt me deeply, betray our marriage, enjoy a connection with another girl and ignore our marriage vows - just because he seems to be having a hard time with life. How is this ok?? When and how do I insist that he stop?

 

You can't insist that he stop! That is what you have to realize...you can't control him. You can only control you. Cliche, but true.

 

It's difficult. I get this. It may be one of the hardest things you ever do. Basically, the 180 will make you quit focusing on him and focus on YOU instead.

 

I know it seem counter-intuitive. It seems like you're giving up but you're not. You're fighting for YOU. He isn't doing much fighting for your marriage. He is enjoying the attention of another girl. It is very counter-intuitive. It is not full-proof either because you are dealing with people, not machines.

 

The hope is that he will sit up and take notice that you are no longer focusing on him. He will wonder what is up and quit chasing the girl to get YOU.

 

But he might walk away if you implement the 180 because that is what he wanted...to get away from the marriage. But what you're doing isn't working. Threatening him, fighting with him, delivering ultimatums all aren't working.

 

Hopefully someone will explain this better. I have lived the concept of the 180 but have difficulty putting the concept into words.

[Mrs.S.]

This all makes sense. I'm already having anxiety about him being at work with her, chatting away and enjoying her company as if his life is just fantastic right now. While every minute I am sitting here in anxiety, pain and rejection. Which is why I need to do the 180, right? I'm so nervous about the weekend. He's been really good about being at home and letting me know when he's leaving from work and where he's going if he does go out. In his heart, he is not a cheater and I know this. But he's playing with fire and he doesn't even want to stop.

 

What if he asks me to do something with him? Last weekend he mentioned going to the movies this weekend. I'm not going to bring it up, but if he does, do I go and smile and be a happy friendly wife and try to establish a better connection with him, thus letting him feel like he's won and doing nothing wrong and is able to keep this up with the girl and also still have me? Or do I tell him no and push him even further away?

[2sunny]

If it were me - I'd stay busy and unavailable all weekend. And I'd leave him wondering what I'm so busy doing.

 

He's acting like a jerk = treat him like the jerk he's being.

 

If asked - my response would simply be "I don't have to inform you of my plans - you're not invested totally in the M - so I'm not going to be either - I owe you no explanations".