Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[imtooconfused]

He just texted me about how talking about this is making him mad again. He said that he feels as though I'm doing the same thing I've always done with him in this kind of circumstance and that I just can't see the forrest through the trees, so to speak.

 

I just want to add that the fact that he continues the conversation, even if he is angry, indicates there still is passion and a desire to work things out. If there was no desire, he would remain silent and simply communicate with the "girl from work."

[2sunny]

What exactly does he plan to DO differently to IMPROVE the marriage?

 

If he can't give you his solid plan of action to change by being more invested in your relationship - then I'd find it difficult to see reasons to stay.

 

He's MAKING it a battle to consider staying.

 

That would tell me everything he's been unwilling to admit.

[Mrs.S.]

I think that a large part of the reason this is so hard is because I never had the time or the love and support from him to process and get over the hurtful things that actually did happen. And he expects me to immediately embrace this as something that he needs because it's good for him.

 

He hasn't committed to rebuilding our relationship or even to staying in it. All of his focus is on why he needs to keep his relationship with her in his life. I really do think that he wishes he could concede, just as I really wish I could. But I also really think that he needs this "win" for himself. And this doesn't mean that I don't empathize with his feelings and need for this, even if his actions suck. But it also doesn't mean that I have to stay in a marriage where his priority isn't us and giving us the best chance possible to make it.

[imtooconfused]

because I never had the time or the love and support from him...

 

Did you have love and support from him before the hurtful things happened? If so then it's worth working on.

 

But it also doesn't mean that I have to stay in a marriage where his priority isn't us and giving us the best chance possible to make it.

 

I don't see where he is NOT making it a priority other than not abiding by an ultimatum. He's going to couples counseling. He's even going to individual counseling. Most spouses intent on checking out would definitely not do that. If there is any reluctance to making the marriage a priority, I think it stems from when you (initially) told him you want a divorce. After that revelation, I think the onus is on you to explain why the marriage is again such a priority to you.

 

I can't re-read six pages of thread. Did the emotional affair start after the request for divorce or did you request a divorce after finding out about the text messages, etc? It helps me to understand, but doesn't really affect what happens from here.

[Mrs.S.]

I found out about the EA at the end of April after the divorce stuff came up. It had escalated pretty much simultaneously with that. But their friendship had been intensifying since right before/right after the holidays. He admitted that she pursued a friendship with him after she was moved to a different team last fall. He was her supervisor for over a year. He said he knew she wanted to keep in touch and he kind of knew she was attracted to him, but he didn't intend for things to ever get to the level that it did. He admitted that with every "next step" in the friendship, he knew in the back of his mind that it wasn't a good idea. But when we had those arguments in February where I first mentioned divorce and then he mentioned divorce in March, it all boiled over in April, when all of this really fell apart. Up until then he was still telling me that things were going to be ok and that we just had to fix some things. I found out I have a potential fertility problem in Feb., too, and we were seeing a doctor about that because we had been trying to get pregnant in the fall. In my eyes, this has been a shocking, rapid deterioration of our relationship. NOT to say I am blameless and am excused from being as clueless as I was. I certainly abused his love.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[Yasuandio]

How many times did I suggest the 180's and Marriage Builder's where you could find out about the logical, reasonable approach to gaining "transparency" (and, Plan A & Plan B as further options)?

 

Here is another suggestion for a method that is extrememly effective: "The Reverse Ultimatim" - see Mimi Tanner. Your attempts at ultimatems are never going to work - have a look at this - it is just the opposite.

 

Your appoaches have not changed whatsoever - and your husband is digging his heels in - and is moving farther and farther away from you. I am telling you now - stop talking - it is clingy, neediy, and unattractive.

 

You are pursueing him when he has clearly rejected you for another woman at this point. This is no friend or confidant to him. "Friends" are people that the other married partner knows - and can freely speak to also. A woman he is having private conference with that you are not privvy to cannot be appropriate in the least - unless she is a licenced thrapist. I agree with Sunny on this point.

 

Any lack of provocitive text messages on your part to your husband is no excuse for this liason - deveoping the (let's call it what it is) relationship outside the marriage was his choice - now there are three people in the marriage - one too many.

 

This and that and all that you say you are going to do with your life to take control, blah, blah -- keep it to yourself. Doing (action) is more significant than talking about it. That is where the reverse Ultimatem comes in. Stop talking and start action.

 

And it would be nice to see some evidence that you have read and applied at least some of what has been recommended to you in the outstanding literature - that is well known to be most effective in these curcumstance. Because what you are doing yourself - by solely operating on emotional instienct - is really goofing up your mission and making you look desparate - and not crediable. Action - not words. No more talky talk. No more texty text. Hope that helps. Yas

[Jstub]

Yas - Brilliant as always Sorry I have been MIA

 

I read this post from end to end and I can tell you 1 thing - As I was reading some of your posts, I was shaking my head - because guess what? I have been in a very similar situation as yours TWICE - did it wrong the first time, and right the next time. I am referring to "The obsession about the OW" (OM in my case).

 

Every single conversation you post about here on your posts, somehow ends up about this OW. What you are doing is EXACTLY the opposite of what you want. You are making her more and more attractive to him. You are the nagging, needy b***** (sorry to be so blunt) and she (OW) is the comforting force to him. He dreams about the minute he can get away from your nagging and go to his OW to get comfort, have a laugh etc. It doesn't really matter if they slept together or not, he is EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in her. He feels CONNECTED to her etc.

 

Let me give you a little perspective here. My stbxw cheated on me, and I OBSESSED about it, that was the center of my universe. I would nag and bit*** about the OM ALL freaking day... long story short, after a while, she came back to me bla bla so we "gave it another shot"

 

Few months later, again sparing you details, same story - affair bla bla and what did i do this time? i wished her well! i said, I don't like it, but hey! be happy. I started going out, having fun, doing things for myself and sleeping around with another girl (yea maybe a little extreme, but i had missed the attention and the sex etc). Kept it up for a few weeks and what do you know? Who wants me back? yea.. you guessed it. My stbxw. Now the difference, between the first and second cheating scenarios was that the first took MONTHS of her staying with the OM (relationship had a natural death), because I kept pushing her towards him versus the second affair - which was over in 3-4 weeks, because she dumped him to try to get me back.

 

I am still divorcing her, but that's besides the point. What I am trying to tell you here, is that it is VERY important, to stop the obsession. If you want your husband back, you HAVE to let him go. It is freaking hard... it is counter intuitive, but it is the ONLY way. I can kind of guess, you feel angry, you blow up about this OW, and then some time after, you may think to yourself.... oh no, i just made it worse - well guess what! you did.

 

I am not going to tell you to stay there and put up with this nonsense, or ask him to leave. That is ultimately up to you. What I can tell you is that, you CANNOT force it. Try to make POSITIVE times with him and not be the NAGGING B***** of a wife that he resents so much.

 

I hope that helps!

[Mrs.S.]

You're both right, Yas and Jstub. We have talked more about it (which I am finished doing) at length. There was actually some good outcomes, though. He told me that he understands where I'm coming from, but that this really isn't about this girl. He said it's about him looking back in the future and knowing that he backed down again just because I said so. He said that this girl doesn't matter to him and that this is a work friendship that is platonic and minor to him. He said that he knows he handled things badly and let the situation get the best of him and that he did things he never should have done. And that he's corrected his behavior and maintains strict boundaries. He said that he doesn't have feelings for her and that he doesn't think of their friendship like that at all. He said that he doesn't initiate conversation with her anymore and they email a few times or IM through the interoffice IM thing and it's just about nonsense work stuff and work jokes.

 

Personally, I still find it infuriating that he would want to be friends with a girl who knows that this married man messed up and took things too far with her and that his marriage was damaged, yet she still insists on baiting him for attention day after day. He doesn't see this, but I do. He says that it's not like that at all and that they don't talk about anything personal anymore. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle of what I imagine on a bad day and what he tells me. He said that he doesn't feel that their friendship takes anything away from me because I'm imagining it to be something that it's completely not. He said they are friends at work and that's all it will ever be.

 

Anyway, he also said that he does want things to work with us, maybe he hasn't said it, but it's true. This meant a lot to me, because honestly, he hasn't said it. Not once since the whole thing blew up two months ago. He said he feels as if he's had many opportunities to give up and quit on us and he hasn't taken any of them. He said that he's been trying, maybe not as he should have, but he's been trying and he doesn't think he should have to prove to me every day that he's still in this by adhering to any rules or ultimatums.

 

He said he's just asking for a breather from talking about this non-stop and that it doesn't mean he's trying to ignore me or buy himself more time with her, but he just wants a breather because these conversations take a lot out of him and he doesn't want to lash out at me and say something he shouldn't. He said that this really is about principle and that's all it's about, as petty as it might sound.

 

Even though the conversation was unpleasant (I definitely made my points, too. About the girl, about coupling that with the fact that he's never told me he wants things to work with us, about how secretive he has been and still is), I think that he did say things to me that he has never said and that I have really needed to know and hear. I told him that I'm not going to try to control him or give him ultimatums. I just ask that he let this thing with her die a natural death when it comes to it and not to instigate anything. He said ok. He also took the password lock off of his phone and he said he'd change his email password back to the one I know.

 

I definitely wouldn't say that things are better between us. We're both still kind of angry. I still have horrible visions of them together at work and of them joking and laughing all day long while he's still quite distant and terse with me. But maybe this is a baby step in the right direction? I do want to take the focus off of my feelings about her - he says in reality I have more feelings for her and care about her more than he does - and see what could happen between us. I'll try to give him the respect and control and the breather that he has been asking for. We'll see what happens. Even though he's been a huge jerk and a child about many things in the past few months, I do think that he has done his part to keep us together.

 

It's going to be very hard not to ask him about whether he's talked to her or seen her. And even harder because he lied to me multiple times about not talking to her. And even though I do believe this work "friendship" comes right up to and meets the boundaries that were crossed in the first place, he did immediately stop the personal contact, the personal topics of conversation, the fantasies of pursuing her and he has continued to stay in our marriage even though things got extremely low and he could have run right to her and probably had a PA if he had wanted to. I don't doubt she would have been willing. Even though he hasn't been an angel through all of this, he hasn't been a demon either.

 

Is this the track you all keep saying I should be on?

Edited June 27, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[imtooconfused]

I hear him saying the things I think you need to hear. But are you listening? As in is what he is saying sinking in?

 

So he says that he wants to take a breather and that it may seem like he's ignoring you. But that's only because he wants to ignore the argumentative Mrs.S. that has been around for the past many weeks. I am certain that if the kind, caring (dare I say flirty) Mrs.S. were to come back into the house, he would welcome her with open arms.

 

Again, you feel too much hurt to just forget everything that is happened. But try as hard as you can to keep that to yourself (or use LS as a tool to vent) and similarly do your best to put a warm face in front of your husband. Recognize the forward progress that he has offered to the marriage and match him with like gestures. It is especially important now to show him that you will live up to your end of the bargain and avoid controlling behaviors.

[BC1980]

The best thing you can do is to act like this woman at work is someone you could care less about. See, I really think this woman at work is about power for him more than some kind of emotional affair. Reading this thread, it almost seems that he is acting out for power. You MUST let him feel he has made the choice to end it of his own free will. That is such a crucial thing with relationships and, I think, men in particular. People just cannot feel controlled and be happy. People must always feel that they have made the decision to stay or go, and, really, it should be free will.

 

Giving someone a verbal ultimatum just won't work in the long run because you have put yourself in a position of weakness by doing so. In your case, it has become this woman at work. Yes, I do think the relationship is inappropriate, but giving him an ultimatum about it (in this particular instance) seems to be counterproductive. You are going to have to try a different approach.

 

You have done everything completely wrong up until this point, but you could actually still save this marriage. It isn't a lost cause yet. I would recommend a book called "The Reverse Ultimatum," which is really written for women who are in relationships where the man will not commit, but I think some of the ideas in this book could really help you.

 

Do not mention the state of the relationship from this point on. Act like you could care less. Talking about the relationship is making you less and less desirable to him at this point. The good news is you still have a shot. Your husband seems to be clinging to this marriage for dear life, trying to find any way to save it. Help make his decision easy for him. You really do have a lot more power than you think.

[2sunny]

I think he's full of $hit - but if you tend to believe his continual lies - that's on you.

 

Actions show truth much more than empty words and/or lies - and since he's not ACTING as though he intends to earn back your trust and repair the damage he caused by being inappropriate with her - I find him un believable.

 

IF he wanted to work hard to repair the M - he'd have a much stronger, firm boundary with her - one that stated clearly "communicating with you ends now - it hurts my marriage and I intend to make that my priority" - but he's not willing to give her up.

 

She provides him something(s) he doesn't intend to let go of.

 

As long as he hangs on to her - the M can't be rebuilt.

[Yasuandio]

Jstab, you know what? This is hopeless. When I attempted to read Mrs. S.'s response to your cogent, on-point digestion of her thread, her text blurred - and became illegiable. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, dear, God, help her, please, someone.

 

Mrs. S., I hope you try to comprehend you're the receipient of the very best creme del' la creme perspective. Try to listen instead of talking, please. Stop talking, and questioning, and let be what will be....The answers will be the answers no matter all the stuff you spew from your mouth. Your husband's ears are on the "off" position. He just sees you mouth going on and on and on. You got to stop.

 

Try this. Take you computer or phone into the bathroom mirror. Then, read to yourself, into the mirror, the, eh, most recent post you made here. Read it out loud to yourself in the mirror - alone. Maybe if you hear yourself -- you will understand how you sound and how you are being peceived (especially by a man). I mean, Jstab just explained it to you. Mirror this thing, tape record yorself reading what you have written. Please - just do it as a little exercise for this former retired professor as an experiment. Maybe manic Yas is onto something here perhaps.

 

PS Did u ever look at the research that has been suggested?

[Yasuandio]

i think he's full of $hit - but if you tend to believe his continual lies - that's on you.

 

Actions show truth much more than empty words and/or lies - and since he's not acting as though he intends to earn back your trust and repair the damage he caused by being inappropriate with her - i find him un believable.

 

If he wanted to work hard to repair the m - he'd have a much stronger, firm boundary with her - one that stated clearly "communicating with you ends now - it hurts my marriage and i intend to make that my priority" - but he's not willing to give her up.

 

She provides him something(s) he doesn't intend to let go of.

 

As long as he hangs on to her - the m can't be rebuilt.

 

It is easy to form an action-plan based on this data:

 

Stop talking, analizing & negotiating the non-negotiables, period.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Yasuandio

[trippi1432]

I think he's full of $hit - but if you tend to believe his continual lies - that's on you.

 

Actions show truth much more than empty words and/or lies - and since he's not ACTING as though he intends to earn back your trust and repair the damage he caused by being inappropriate with her - I find him un believable.

 

IF he wanted to work hard to repair the M - he'd have a much stronger, firm boundary with her - one that stated clearly "communicating with you ends now - it hurts my marriage and I intend to make that my priority" - but he's not willing to give her up.

 

She provides him something(s) he doesn't intend to let go of.

 

As long as he hangs on to her - the M can't be rebuilt.

 

I have to agree with this, what you have been working towards (disclosure, open book, demands of cutting things off) only works with someone who is in remorse of what they have done, wants to work on the marriage and salvage the relationship with the spouse.

 

Reading the exchanges you are having with your husband it seems that he validates the relationship with this woman in his mind because he doesn't feel he has crossed a firm boundary with her. He may have with his feelings, but he probably does not validate that as an affair. Knowing him, what do you think he sees as an affair?

[Jstub]

Hello Mrs S. I have to tell you - i got a shock when I saw your reply after my advice to you. You are doing the exact same thing over and over again. You know how you said, it seems things are getting better but you both feel something is off? WELL, guess what!??? listen to your gut. Your gut feeling is right. Things are not getting better. My gut feeling has sometimes "told me" terrible things, worse case scenarios and let me tell you something, my head didn't want to believe them but my gut feeling was always right.

 

He is not changing his behavior at all, he is just calming you down. I have seen this happen dozens of times with my experiences. Please believe me. WORDS do not MEAN ANYTHING. ACTIONS DO. My stbxw has given me speeches that would just break down a man and feel so understanding and hopeful, only to find out that they were just words... Why would he change? you are still nagging. He takes you for granted. You will always be there. You are his back up. All the BS he talks about the OW has nothing to do with this... how can you even believe that crap??? A person cannot reconnect with person A, if they are emotionally invested in person B. The only way they can do it, is if person B is out of the picture. You are trying to foce person B out of the picture, but you are doing it the wrong way. JUST LET HIM HAVE IT! It needs to have a natural death. You can accelerate the natural death by showing him that you don't care.

 

Let me ask you something. Are you an attractive woman? how is your self esteem? Do you think your husband is the best you can do? do you feel that you hit the jackpot with him and there is no one that can come close to his awesomeness? From what you told us, the answers go in the order of No,very low, yes, yes. Think about it please!

 

Let me tell you something, you are in love with the idea of your great husband. You are not in love with your husband. Your current husband is an a-hole. A husband would put his wife's happiness FIRST. He would NEVER hurt her badly for a freaking power game. That is not love. This man you are chasing right now - is NOT the man you want to be with. That's why you need to give him up at the moment - because, you giving him up.. (REALLY GIVING HIM UP) is your best bet of FORCING change, making him realize what the hell he is doing.

 

Stop being needy, clingy and naggy. No one wants that. Be independent, go out, look your best, be sexy, get some male attention. He is doing it... and you are just sitting there and FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF.

 

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you need to hear this.

[Mrs.S.]

So I just figured out how to quote in my responses. This should help. Bear with me!

 

First of all, I appreciate all of your responses. I do take them into serious consideration and I consider all perspectives. That being said, I do use this forum to be overly detailed in my thoughts because that's partly what this forum is for. So I don't say all of this to my H in this exact unedited manner.

 

Anyway-

 

Again, you feel too much hurt to just forget everything that is happened. But try as hard as you can to keep that to yourself (or use LS as a tool to vent) and similarly do your best to put a warm face in front of your husband. Recognize the forward progress that he has offered to the marriage and match him with like gestures. It is especially important now to show him that you will live up to your end of the bargain and avoid controlling behaviors.

 

This is so true. I have been putting a warm face in front of him. The conversations this week have been initiated by him. Remember I said that on Tuesday night he came home and told me that he had been thinking about what the counselor said and it was hard for him to take, but she was right about how he was behaving. And he put the TV on mute and asked me to talk about it with him. On Wednesday he told me that morning that he would text me throughout the day about stuff and only that night did he get tired of talking. Yes, I was very upset that day, but I didn't force him to talk. I offered him the space he had asked for, I just said that I am not comfortable with his friendship with her and I will choose for myself not to be part of that if that's what he needs right now to feel better about himself.

 

And I did recognize that he had taken a very big step in digesting what the counselor said and approaching me to address what he's been doing wrong and to reach out to me. As our counselor says, coming towards me.

 

You are trying to foce person B out of the picture, but you are doing it the wrong way. JUST LET HIM HAVE IT! It needs to have a natural death. You can accelerate the natural death by showing him that you don't care.

 

Let me ask you something. Are you an attractive woman? how is your self esteem? Do you think your husband is the best you can do? do you feel that you hit the jackpot with him and there is no one that can come close to his awesomeness? From what you told us, the answers go in the order of No,very low, yes, yes. Think about it please!

 

I am not a needy, unattractive, whining woman with low self-esteem. But I appreciate that I can get those feelings - which are directly related to the aftermath of a major, unexpected, marriage-altering occurrence - out of my system on here. Also, I always welcome my friends - and all of you who are kind enough to give your thoughts and time to me on here - to be brutally honest with me and straightforward. I am not looking for a sounding board of sycophants so please don't think my lack of clarity stems from that kind of desire.

 

I do not think - in the large scheme of things - that my husband is the best I can do or that I view him as hitting the jackpot. Yes, I like to feel this way and for him to feel that he is my jackpot because husbands and wives should try to build each other up. But I like to feel this way because I have accepted him as my jackpot, flaws and baggage and all. Not because this is literally how I view things. I am little offended by your self-provided answers to your questions, but I see the point you are making.

 

The best thing you can do is to act like this woman at work is someone you could care less about. See, I really think this woman at work is about power for him more than some kind of emotional affair. Reading this thread, it almost seems that he is acting out for power. You MUST let him feel he has made the choice to end it of his own free will. That is such a crucial thing with relationships and, I think, men in particular. People just cannot feel controlled and be happy. People must always feel that they have made the decision to stay or go, and, really, it should be free will.

 

Even though he is acting like a jerk with the thing he has picked to be his symbol of "power," I do believe you are exactly right. Which is why I am having a hard time taking this behavior versus understanding that this is just about the power he needs to reclaim for himself. Your entire reply really hit home for me.

 

Reading the exchanges you are having with your husband it seems that he validates the relationship with this woman in his mind because he doesn't feel he has crossed a firm boundary with her. He may have with his feelings, but he probably does not validate that as an affair. Knowing him, what do you think he sees as an affair?

 

I honestly think he doesn't see this as an affair. I think he definitely knows that crossing the line was wrong and he is sorry for that. He stopped it immediately. But I don't think he really views this current relationship with her as anything deep, dangerous or even desirable now. And he does think it's a harmless thing to make a point with. I don't think he really comprehends how the residual hurt and fear I have about what happened still exists. In his mind, it's not the same thing anymore, so what's the big deal? His head is clear, so why isn't mine? I do think he still gets some thrill from her attention, though. And I do think that he plans to let it die a natural death - he's even said that he figured it would just fizzle out, but that it was fun and he had no intention of it being anything harmful.

 

I have read the research you all have recommended. And I am implementing the friendly, non-pushy, non-needy approach. He came home last night and was very affectionate and sweet. And he has been today also. Next Fri. is my birthday and he told me to let him know what I want to do over the long weekend.

 

We now are both making efforts and I'm cautiously optimistic. Like I said, I believe in him, but I do see the selfish way he's playing this out. Like it was suggested to me, I am going to try to just let him have it and see it for what it is to him.

[Mrs.S.]

Stop being needy, clingy and naggy. No one wants that. Be independent, go out, look your best, be sexy, get some male attention. He is doing it... and you are just sitting there and FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF.

 

I also wanted to add - I am plenty independent and I do not sit around feeling sorry for myself. I am a full time director at work, I volunteer, I go out with friends and in a couple of weeks I am going on a 9-day vacation abroad with one of my best friends. I don't purposely seek male attention because - 1. I don't need it to feel confident 2. That seems needy and pathetic in and of itself 3. I don't want to get into playing the game of "an eye for an eye" or "oh yea, well see what I can do, too?" When would it end?

 

I don't give a run-down of what I do, but I am out and about plenty. He has always been the homebody and I have always been the one who was out doing things. This hasn't changed.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[Jstub]

I am not a needy, unattractive, whining woman with low self-esteem. But I appreciate that I can get those feelings - which are directly related to the aftermath of a major, unexpected, marriage-altering occurrence - out of my system on here. Also, I always welcome my friends - and all of you who are kind enough to give your thoughts and time to me on here - to be brutally honest with me and straightforward. I am not looking for a sounding board of sycophants so please don't think my lack of clarity stems from that kind of desire.

 

I do not think - in the large scheme of things - that my husband is the best I can do or that I view him as hitting the jackpot. Yes, I like to feel this way and for him to feel that he is my jackpot because husbands and wives should try to build each other up. But I like to feel this way because I have accepted him as my jackpot, flaws and baggage and all. Not because this is literally how I view things. I am little offended by your self-provided answers to your questions, but I see the point you are making.

 

 

Mrs S. I did not mean that you are those things. What my point was, you were coming off that way, based on the way you were writing (I do not know you outside of your posts). I never wanted to offend you in any way, shape or form. I am just trying to help. I was just trying to give you a perspective.

 

From your latest post, you seem a lot more positive and it looks like you are getting some results. Just please remember, it is very easy to get overly excited and get your hopes high and ultimately end up going back to old ways (you and him), only to run into the same situation few months later. Be very careful and keep up the positive attitude and before you know it, the OW will be history - affair or not - it will lose its charm... it always does.

 

I will keep an eye on this thread and will try to help when I can. The best of luck to you.

[Jstub]

I also wanted to add - I am plenty independent and I do not sit around feeling sorry for myself. I am a full time director at work, I volunteer, I go out with friends and in a couple of weeks I am going on a 9-day vacation abroad with one of my best friends. I don't purposely seek male attention because - 1. I don't need it to feel confident 2. That seems needy and pathetic in and of itself 3. I don't want to get into playing the game of "an eye for an eye" or "oh yea, well see what I can do, too?" When would it end?

 

I don't give a run-down of what I do, but I am out and about plenty. He has always been the homebody and I have always been the one who was out doing things. This hasn't changed.

 

Again, your posts paint a completely different picture. So my apologies.

[Mrs.S.]

Again, your posts paint a completely different picture. So my apologies.

 

No apology needed! I appreciate all of your advice and "giving it to me straight!" And if that's how my posts come across, maybe I do need to stop wallowing a bit more, even on here

[BC1980]

My ex ended things after 3 yrs (not married but lived together and he bought me a ring), and my initial reaction was to call him everyday and demand we talk and try to fix the relationship. It pushed him further away. I was wanting to do counseling, but he refused. At one point, he flat out said we need some space because this is stressing him out. That's when I got it. To him, I looked like a needy, controlling woman. To me, I was trying to save what we had.

 

The hardest thing I ever had to do was back off of him. I barely talked to him and never brought up the relationship. EVER. It puts pressure on people, and a person must have free will without feeling pressure. It was so hard those first few weeks not to talk to him. But now he is initiating contact, he is asking to see me. I never out right say it, but my actions prove I do not need him. And I don't. I'm not sure how this will play out, but I'm telling you this so you can see it can work if the other person wants it to work too. This past weekend is the first time he started really reaching out to me.

 

The difference is I am focused on myself. I will be okay with or without him. I know that now, and I did not before. That is the most attractive statement you can make to a person. Because no one wants to be attached to someone who is emotional and needy. That is carrying extra baggage around. It's hard, but it ultimately benefits you to work on yourself.

[imtooconfused]

Even though he is acting like a jerk with the thing he has picked to be his symbol of "power," I do believe you are exactly right. Which is why I am having a hard time taking this behavior versus understanding that this is just about the power he needs to reclaim for himself. Your entire reply really hit home for me.

 

To him at some point it no longer was about the girl and it was completely about the ultimatum. It could have been anything, a sports car, drinking with his friend, a dispute over an in-law. You said "absolutely not" and the only response he was willing to provide was "hell yes."

 

I don't think he really comprehends how the residual hurt and fear I have about what happened still exists. In his mind, it's not the same thing anymore, so what's the big deal? His head is clear, so why isn't mine?

 

It will take a while but (especially if you continue counseling at some level) he will come to understand how you are affected.

 

I do think he still gets some thrill from her attention, though. And I do think that he plans to let it die a natural death - he's even said that he figured it would just fizzle out, but that it was fun and he had no intention of it being anything harmful.

 

Yes it kills you inside to know that this other woman was attractive to him on some level, but know this... The other relationship will die a natural death when he comes to see you as more thrilling and attractive.

 

I am proud of you for following the path that you are on and hope that you can continue to make good progress in the future.

[Yasuandio]

My therapist many years ago taught me a little simple technique - when the thoughts that were antagonizing me popped into my head - to just say to myself - "let's not go there."

 

I just read this little article, and it is about "letting go" of these agonizing thoughts completely - to achieve peace via a method called "mindfulness." I believe I have subconciously moved onto a similiar version of this method on my own as time has gone by, and I do feel more at ease, and peaceful. It is kinda like riding a bike - the method becomes habit forming.

 

Mindfulness and the Art of Letting Go

 

Maybe u will like this little article, and be able to try it to ease your mind.

 

Again, now mentioned by another poster, Mimi Tanner's Reverse Ultimatim is the bomb. I re-invented myself for real based on that program [see Chapter on "Living the Charmed Life"] - it is an outstanding methodolgy to apply to all dimensions of your life, love, work, and play!

 

You can get on a half dozen free daily email MiMi Tanner newsletter mailing lists that give you the basic building blocks of her systems. I have practically everything she has written (and other than Homer McDonald), these are the best investments I have made over the past few years. Hope this helps, Yas

[2sunny]

But what has happened - and what remains is about lack of trust and knowing you can count on the person you married.

 

He hurt you! And HE should be so sorry that he's willing to DO/say anything and everything to REBUILD that trust - that faith you had - in him.

 

But he's not - and THAT is the part I'm having a difficult time understanding what his motives are.

 

Does he view this as a power play? Maybe

 

Does he view it as trying to be more independent from you? Maybe

 

Does he hold female friendship above your M? Maybe

 

Is he willing to earn trust back? Maybe... But IF he's not going to do his best - there's no foundation to the M if he keeps squishing it by remaining friends with a gal YOU aren't comfortable with.

 

His actions will show what his intent is - I wouldn't even bother listening to his words.

[Yasuandio]

But what has happened - and what remains is about lack of trust and knowing you can count on the person you married.

 

He hurt you! And HE should be so sorry that he's willing to DO/say anything and everything to REBUILD that trust - that faith you had - in him.

 

But he's not - and THAT is the part I'm having a difficult time understanding what his motives are.

 

Does he view this as a power play? Maybe

 

Does he view it as trying to be more independent from you? Maybe

 

Does he hold female friendship above your M? Maybe

 

Is he willing to earn trust back? Maybe... But IF he's not going to do his best - there's no foundation to the M if he keeps squishing it by remaining friends with a gal YOU aren't comfortable with.

 

His actions will show what his intent is - I wouldn't even bother listening to his words.

 

Exactly. His talk is just response to your blah blah blah. He just says enough to pacify you already. U remain in same spinning position no matter how you try to "spin" your "position" on LS. And likewise he keeps on his merry way -- because HE CAN. That simple.

 

Now Mrs. S., you have been presented with a half dozen ACTION PLANS you could implement. But from my read -- I do not see where you have seriously digested (much less put to practice) one iota of any research that has been presented to you heretofore:

 

180's Well?

 

Marriage Builder's Plan A or B, Well?

 

Marriage Builder's Transparency? Well?

 

NC? Little NC? Well?

 

Mimi Tanner Reverse Ultimatim? Well?

 

If anything, I observe you seem to continue do the complete opposite of what these materials recommend. And then ask at the end of your post if you got it right. What does that mean? I don't think you really read and apply any of the materials that have been suggested.

 

Nor does it appear that you listen to MC therapist very much - why waste all that money to negotiate your husband's girlfriend at work? How silly is that?

 

Why are we even talking about if it is OK for the guy to carry on with an inappropriate relationship with a female co-worker - duh?

 

When is the talky talk gonna stop - and the ACTION PLAN gonna start?

 

Gee wiz. Yas