Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I am cautiously optimistic based on what you relayed here. I am really proud of you and being clear and setting your boundaries.

 

 

Honestly, I feel a little bad about possibly putting him in a position to work a difficult schedule or forcing him to do something uncomfortable at work.

 

Do not feel bad...Action=Consequence or don't shix where you sleep.

 

I think in order to reinforce that I'm not making a threat or asserting power over him (aka the "mommy" dynamic), I am going to make sure that I continue to treat him in a loving and caring way.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

I'll assume that he'll make the right choice and be the loving wife that he does want. His decision will be what it will be, so why project anger towards him now?

 

YES!!! Do not borrow trouble. Give him a chance to succeed.

 

It will be hard to stop wondering and asking questions and imagining the worst while he's at work, but I have to give this the best chance. I have to give him one more chance, too.

 

You have laid out your consequence, based on what you can handle, not a punishment, but what you need to do for you, if he can't or won't make changes. At this point anything else is piling on and wasted energy. This is so much more fair than one day burning his clothes on the front lawn out of frustrations. (Not that there is anything wrong with that;-) )

 

Dont be overly fake cheerful, but make sure that you are pleasant and avoid getting sucked into the mommy role. (Pause and think before you tell him what to do, how to do something or how to solve a problem. Listen and say, what do you want to do? How do you want this to turn out?)

 

The dynamic here is not one sided so I don't want you to think this is all you. But strong women (regardless of the age difference with your husband) get pulled into this dynamic. We have to try to not emasculate our husbands by being in charge with everything, all the time. Huge struggle for me...

 

Plus who wants to be in charge ALLLLL the time?

 

Good luck. I really hope he pulls his heads out of his ass. Is your husband a reader?

[2sunny]

I think you did great!

 

Now know when you expect this change to happen and stick to your healthy boundary.

[Mrs.S.]

Is your husband a reader?

 

On and off - why?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

On and off - why?

 

go buy these books for you.

 

"Not just friends" by Shirley Glass

 

"After the affair" and/or "how can I forgive you" by Janis Abrams

 

Totally passive aggressive...but...Don't talk about them, dont ask him to read them, and if he asks about them just tell him he can read them if he wants.

 

Dont hide them, but don't make a big deal out of reading them or leaving them out.

 

If he has the guts to read it, the first one wil hit him between the eyes. But either way they will be good for you to read while especially over the next few days.

[Yasuandio]

go buy these books for you.

 

"Not just friends" by Shirley Glass

 

"After the affair" and/or "how can I forgive you" by Janis Abrams

 

Totally passive aggressive...but...Don't talk about them, dont ask him to read them, and if he asks about them just tell him he can read them if he wants.

 

Dont hide them, but don't make a big deal out of reading them or leaving them out.

 

If he has the guts to read it, the first one wil hit him between the eyes. But either way they will be good for you to read while especially over the next few days.

 

I got nutt'in against these books. I have each one in my library. But what you said earlier about how 'it's not like he cannot look up something himself' I think was really spot on. The Internet provides gobs of resources for him to have a look at (if he gave a dang).

 

Now that Mrs. S. conveyed her unequivocal position, in an, albeit, "friendly," but still ultimatum format, it is not the time to present "back-up" reading resouces to support her position rite now in my opinion. I think that could weaken her firm stance she made today when "The Law got Layed Down."

 

If suddenly self-help books on forgiveness, etc, start appearing on the bedstand, this guy ain't gonna read them, no way. He is in "fog heaven" - admittedly! When a man is in an attraction phase for a woman, (even if he "doesn't want to be,") and has "lingering feelings" for this woman he sees everyday at work, he probably wouldn't get much out of authors like Shirly Glass or Janus Abrams. Now, again, that is just my opinion - no offense intended. (....if I was this guy, I know I wouldn't want to read that guilt inducing "crap," I would have more interesting things on my mind). Plus, "Mommy" doesn't need to buy the boyscout any books if he is so great with putting out the campfire, right?

 

Of course I highly recommend these books for Mrs. S. I outlined the types of forgiveness in Abrams book in the Critical Readings Thead pinned in our forum, see link below. Especially beware, Mrs. S., of what Abrams refers to as "Cheap Forgiveness!" I was really guilty of that form of forgiveness, which is a method of peacekeeping, that resolves nothing (now I am paying the price with decades of built up anger issues that are seriously affecting my health after the fact). Live and learn. Yas

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Fair enough.

 

I was going at it from the Mrs. S self help reading standpoint with a side benefit of passive aggressive "see I working on my own shix" without the stated neener neener neener part. (I get into trouble with the passive aggressive stuff.)

 

So, upon further reflection,

 

Nevermind. :-). Hey it takes a village.

 

 

Still good books, along with 5 love languages.

[2sunny]

Reading back a few pages...

 

Does your H show a pattern of delaying action he should and could take? Does he generally leave things for others to take steps to rectify uncomfortable situations?

 

It seems he's very passive - which makes it appear he is the victim of what happens to him. But it's because HE ISN'T DOING ENOUGH by speaking up - stating his truth and having a voice.

 

Several things came to me while reading your back story.

 

When you confronted her - SHE still thought she was close enough to him to step back into corresponding with him - the very next morning. He responded by saying "I'm fine". He should have said "LEAVE ME ALONE, YOU ARE RUINING MY MARRIAGE!" But he didn't!

 

Dd he attend counseling while you traveled? He needs help! He doesn't communicate what needs to be said!

 

By staying quiet it does leave room for another person to draw an inaccurate conclusion - and I think he has ALLOWED HER THAT ROOM. Especially when he stepped back into personal chatter by IM when he was mad at you! Why would he NOT talk to YOU if he's mad at you?

 

It makes me think his connection with her is deeper than he admits!

 

And then he lied again by omission (see the pattern?) by not telling you she was back on his team. I'd be FURIOUS enough to file for divorce that very day! He's essentially had no consequences!

 

And NOW he says he misses her attention and the intimacy he had with her. Man, I just want to throw a rock at him!

 

But he did offer to quit. And THAT is an offer I'd take him up on! If he won't be honest with his boss - and suffer some consequences that HE created - then he should quit! Whether or not you stay married is beside the point - he may learn that there are REAL consequences when you are inappropriate!

 

It's hard to imagine being more patient with his INACTION that is killing the marriage. He's been a big wussy!

 

IF he wants you - he should be doing everything and anything to be sure you trust him after cutting her completely out of your lives - but he hasn't! He's said he would take action back on July 8th - yet he's not done a thing to change it!

 

Appeasing you and your questions is a far cry from handing you your peace of mind and being consistently honest.

 

He needs intensive help with communication and someone that specializes in infidelity is necessary.

 

He needs to learn how to lead! How to take the bull by the horns and MAKE things happen! Floundering around with the current isn't good enough - he needs to own his bad behavior and get willing to do anything necessary to make you feel like he's treating you with honor, love and respect - but he hasn't so far.

 

I can't see how he's really being a grown up at all. He's acting like a baby that got caught stealing a cookie.

 

I still have the feeling he was physically involved with her. He seems attached to her in a way that most men feel when they've had sex...or received oral sex from someone.

 

For her to be in his presence every work day is ridiculous! Texting you isn't enough to bring peace of mind - I've known men who text wives a lot while meeting up with several different OW during the course of the day.

 

If he doesn't get rid of her or quit - it would be a deal breaker for me. His lack of action is ruining your M!!!

 

But that's just me.

 

I will think you're doing great - just wanted to point out my thought after reading a few pages back.

[Yasuandio]

Fair enough.

 

I was going at it from the Mrs. S self help reading standpoint with a side benefit of passive aggressive "see I working on my own shix" without the stated neener neener neener part. (I get into trouble with the passive aggressive stuff.)

 

So, upon further reflection,

 

Nevermind. :-). Hey it takes a village.

 

 

Still good books, along with 5 love languages.

 

Village? Howz about a buldozer? Your insight is valuable, it-is-what-it-is! This thing is a very weird one to dissect. Upon reflection, I don't even trust my own opinion, really, on this situation - because this guy's conduct is so maddening to me. Mrs. S. will know best and will also have to be the one to live with him now and (if) later. I just know I could never bear this thing like Mrs. S. No way, that guy's rear end would be so out the door - or I would be disappeared, quick. Only solution I could imagine for myself, as I wouldn't want my love language to end me up in prison in a scenario such as this.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Yasuandio

[ShouldIMoveOn]

I'm just a normal guy, with my own problems, so don't take this personally.

 

If you're feeling a bit uncertain or uneasy, don't read any further. I loaded both barrels for bear and fired.

 

I've seen you before, Mrs. S. - not the literal you, but the figurative you.

 

I've been you, too.

 

Tell me if this resonates: Life is slipping away, there are no handholds, there is no leverage, everything is outside your control. The ground is spinning. You can't concentrate at work.

 

Every little thing, every detail is examined in your head over and over and over for clues that could guide you. You're trying to get a grip. You can't find a handhold.

 

Everything matters, the colour of the tie he wears to work, whether you get a "good morning" text or not, whether he's five minutes late home from work. Your world is a constant gyre, a terrifying roil of anger and pain.

 

And, in your head, it's all because he can't make up his f*&ing mind! "Just pick!" you want to scream. "Am I good enough for you or not?"

 

You crave his touch, yet when he reaches out in affection, the faint tendrils of renewed love, rubbing your back, holding your hand, a hug - you slap it away. You think: "It's not good enough to just rub my back or hold my hand. That hug wasn't long enough. You need to know how I feel!"

 

His attempts to reconnect with you INFURIATE you for their insufficiency.

 

Because if he really loved you, he'd know how much this hurts you. He'd know what he's done to you. He'd see that his hesitation hurts you more than anything, that his refusal to quit his job (!) or fire his subordinate (!) in order to make you feel better is just like a slap in the face.

 

Wasn't life so much better back when he would just be your puppet, and allow you to choose his job, his friends, his coworkers, his team, his career, and absolutely everything else?

 

Weren't you a good gardener for the fertile ground of marriage?

 

You threatened to divorce him over the chores.

 

His response, which was to honestly consider what you had suggested, was incredible to you!

 

Why the utter cheek! How dare he!

 

Are you not so valuable to him that the very thought of losing you sends him head over heels into a tizzy of drivelling madness?

 

Just the threat of one moment away from your touch should be enough to cause him to politely apologise for not helping as much in the kitchen as he should, say he's sorry for taking you and your domestic work for granted, promise to be more helpful, and then spend the rest of his life working just a little bit harder around the house, as a sign of your worth and the value of your relationship to him.

 

He wants to stand on his own two feet. With an equal beside him. He loves you and wants that person to be you. The old you, the old Mrs. S., who promised a better world and a better way of living just around the corner, just after you completed him - and he thought that he would complete you, too.

 

But he DOES NOT want the person you are right now.

 

And why would he? Look at what you're doing. Every time he tries to come clean and put the past behind and make a fresh start, you use that confession as a sign of weakness, to jump right in to reassert your old, dominant position within the relationship, to excoriate him for his feelings! As if feelings aren't valid. As if it isn't permissable for him to have feeling of which you don't approve.

 

You want to be with him?

 

Let go of your desire to control him. Stop trying to stand over him and stand beside him.

 

Does he have low self-esteem? Don't worry. Once you're out of the picture he'll recover.

 

The dynamic is this: He's setting the pace of the relationship as the only aspect of it within his purview. You're like a spider monkey, all over every other aspect. If you take that final bit of his self-identity from him by reclaiming the tempo, what space does he have left? What will he do to be himself, to have something that isn't yours? What will that one thing be? An affair? His freedom? You'll be able to predict, I suppose, since you know him best.

 

But even with that knowledge, you can't let it rest because you won't be satisfied until he's done actual penance for being attracted to someone else, for letting you fall from the pedestal in his mind, for the hubris of wanting to believe he was as good as you - good enough to consider divorce in the same way you obviously had when you put it to him.

 

Do you guys have a chance?

 

Not really. People don't change and you are broken. You don't want a husband. You want a puppet. And he wanted someone who would help him and guide him.

 

This worked fine...right up until the day he decided he was bit more grown up, and now it was time to have a say in who does the dishes or who turns down the bed.

 

And that's what's really unacceptable to you. He wants to be his own person and you want to own him.

 

The man you married is gone forever, and in his place is a stronger, more self-willed individual, reaching out for you, over and over, patiently, while you just slap him away, again and again.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Should move on - I hear the pain in your post so I read your thread and will post to you there.

 

Some of what you said is good to read to see another perspective, but I don't believe that Mrs. S wants to have a relationship where she dominates, or a husband who is a puppet, that's been a good part of the discussion in this thread. Couple dynamics take two. I don't believe her motives are nefarious. She's been trying to change the norm.

 

But she also needs to stand up for herself. Mr. S is saying he has feelings for this girl, and that he is not ready to put 100% into the marriage. Not good. Even if he is standing his ground, it's not hopeful that he draws the line there.

 

She can't make him do anything, she just set her boundaries of how long she will dangle. How long she can dangle and still live with herself.

 

She makes her choices, he makes his, maybe they end up together, maybe not.

Edited July 25, 2013 by It-is-what-it-is.

[Yasuandio]

Not to excuse this girl thing, but, I'm a little mixed up now, with the chicken and the egg. What came first?

 

Had he began this relationship with the girl BEFORE the divorce threat by Mrs.S.?

 

I do recall the household issue upsetting Mrs. S., but she may have been sensing something else that was wrong (like this girl thing), and her anger just conveniently got blamed on the "chores" as the facts were not in about the girl. Is that possible?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

How you doing Mrs. S?

[Yasuandio]

Join me in saying a prayer 4 Mrs. S. Tonite. While her and I may have bucked head's once or twice, I have a feeling she's kicking some @&& this weekend at the "S" residence, and I love that. Good 4 her. Wish I "woke-up" that early on. I know she's kicking "@&&," I just know it. Left, right, left right, upper-cut, down for the count (figuratively speaking, of course). I bet that guy is crying for his mommy's titty right now.

 

He has a wonderful profession woman, and he gets his nose all snotty and misty over some underling scank that only knows how to agree, and kiss up to him. Plain pathetic. Ugh. How boring she will become, like, so fast. Duh. Sounds like she has the IQ of a turnup.

 

God bless Mrs. S. Prayers to you girl. Don't give in. Don't give up your dignity. Yas

Edited July 28, 2013 by Yasuandio
Mania started up again.

[Mrs.S.]

Hi everyone- sorry for the lack of response- I've been running around preparing to leave town again for this work conference.

 

Well...she's now permanently on his team at work. She also still tries to keep her foot in the door with him by persisting in asking him how he's been, how his weekend was, is anything is wrong, etc. Once again he delayed telling me with the reason that absolutely nothing is going on with her and he knew it would make me even more uneasy if I knew. He said that he doesn't ever initiate the conversations with her and that he just answers short answers. Usually those questions precede an actual work question. Though he admitted that he isnt doing everything he "could be doing" to discourage her. He said he answers because he doesn't want her to get weird and start asking him why he's not talking to her. As you can imagine, I don't give a flying ---- what she does. He admitted he was handling it wrong and that from now on he just won't reply or he'll simply ask her what her work question is. As for being on his team, he swears it's bad timing and horrible circumstances and that he never thought this would happen. He tells me he really is working on changing shifts (to a very undesirable shift) but that it takes some time to do so. And he'll have to come up with something to tell his team as to why (which I also don't care about).

 

I'm just drained from this. He swears he wants things to work with us, even though he, too, feels "beaten and exhausted" from our repeated negative conversations that seem to consist of accusations and demands.

 

We had a really good date night last night and he took me out to breakfast before I left town this morning. He said he really wanted to have some positive time together before I left so we could feel good about things, unlike when I left for Russia.

 

I have no doubt he's a jerk for lying. I also have no doubt he's honest about why he lied. I have no doubt this work situation needs closure - and soon. He had dug himself into a ditch and by his own doing, it's become a trench. But I do know he is bitter about me treating him like I'm the "parent" and interrogating him. Which I do - admittedly not just about this. How do we break this cycle? Who should rightfully be the one who goes out on a limb and gives the other what they desperately and honestly need first?

Edited July 29, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[2sunny]

Wow - just wow.

 

So he with held more truth - again?

 

And he allowed them to put her permanently on his team without putting up a huge fight?

 

He should quit! Especially if he won't speak up!

 

What is wrong with him being honest with his superiors? He could say he doesn't EVER want to work with her again because she intends to ruin his marriage!

 

But he didn't and hasn't - and THAT is the problem! He won't admit what he's done and he's not willing to have a voice!

 

I'd be flaming mad if I were you!

 

 

It's not your job to lead him around by the nose AFTER he keeps lying to you!

 

He's left you with absolutely no foundation to your crumbling M.

 

I can't see how anyone can respect and honor a guy like that!

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mrs.. S

 

So I am assuming this means he is not meeting your requirements and timeline. And has no intention of doing more than making not telling you the truth and making excuses. How do you think he met your requirements?

 

Being a parent...well, rescuing him from the hard consequence of his mistake, making excuses, being forgiving repeatedly all apply, but that's not the point. Not at this stage...

 

You are there and we are not, so there is more to the story I am sure, but...what i see...another withholding of truth, still not discouraging her, still won't tell the management, still not looking for job change, still blaming you for being parental, still blaming the anger (he brought on himself)....still.

 

Thing is...you drew a line in the sand, defined reasonable requirements, explained your position, then set out to give him a chance to meet it...and he isn't going to. Frankly I think he gave you excuses with enough of a nugget that he hopes will passify you.

 

See I manage people, so I am not "guessing" the zillions of ways this could be handled. But again, not your job to suggest the solutions...it's his job to fix it. He's being nice because he doesn't want her to ask questions? WTF lame lame lame...

 

So go on your trip, you gave him until you get back right? Or was the decision this weekend?

[Yasuandio]

This thing may be worse than ALL of us think Mrs. S. Please go back to my chicken and the egg question. Think back. Maybe it wasn't the chores that made you lose it.

 

This guy is in a power position, and like ISWIT says, there are million and one ways to handle this - rather that put them together on a permanent team! At worse, for the company, if this woman ever feels a sense of "rejection," she could claim sexual harassment - as there HAVE been overtures and an apparent promotion. Not good. There is proof, albeit curcumstancial, no one wants to touch this kind of thing. And most likely, the amount of correspondences between the "couple" and the times of day the correspondences occured will speak for themselves. Again, not good.

 

I thought for sure you were not going to take this. But clearly, you are going to live with it. I cannot fault you for that, if it is your choice. I think it is easier to live with when you don't know about it - so maybe, if you just back off, and forget about it, wash it out off your hair, it will be easier. Because you are a much better woman - you do not need to run after married men.

 

Taking the aformentioned stance, would be walking away from the advice of Marriage Builders, and the associated research that state that reconciliation cannot occur when the third party is present. That doesn't mean there are no other options. DivorceBusters offers a different approach, that is called, among other things "Standing For Your Marriage."

 

On DivorceBusters site, you would not believe what some people have lived thru to save their marriage. Your situation is mild. They would tell you to be kind, and understanding and hopeful that it plays out, and that he sees that he really wants you. [rather than the hard line approach]. You would let go of the anger and make the home a place he wants to be. You would make yourself the more favorable woman. Now, I'm oversymplying this other position.

 

Bottom-line, you cannot have it both ways. You can be at home fighting and ticked off all the time - cause that pushes him into her arms. MC is unpleasant, so that makes the girl look like more "fun" that marriage with you. Anything of a conflict nature works against your purpose - so you need to be nice-nice, really (but independent at the same time so he starts pursueing you again).

 

OR, u give him the big wake up call, that he is about to lose you. That can be subtle. But you already did an ultimatum.. So, if you are backing down on the ultimatum, you have lost some credibility. The best thing to do right now is to SAY NOTHING - so he doesn't know if you backed down on the ultimatum or not. I recommend no further discussion about this girl. "No texty-text to tell you he is being a good Boyscout" - eff that. Just say, "not interested.". Back off the topic completely.

 

It is not your problem to fix. He created the mess - let him illevate his guilt by texting his Grandma or Auntie Jane. For your own sanity - do not discuss this matter again. It only serves to make you look like the bad Mommy, when the Boyscout is trying so hard to put out the fire. When all he needs is a dang bucket of H2o, Duh. Think about Hun. Do you every feel good after these convo's? Don't give him a chance to lie though ommision. If he isn' covering his fanny by answering your direct questions, then he won't have to come up with any lies, or leave anything out. Especially if you tell him "I don't want to know."this is just an idea for a new stance. Yas

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mrs. S,

I know we are being harsh in a effort to help you. So I am going to show you in black and white why....

Last week

I said that I love him very much and would do anything to keep him from feeling the way I do - and that not being loved like that in return is killing me.

 

I told him that I believe what he says about not talking to her and avoiding any contact and interaction unless necessary for work. He said that it's true and that he even uses a different break room so he doesn't run into her.

So this is an outright lie. Based on what your newest post says

 

However, I told him that the feelings of attachment and attraction are still there, even if he's at the point where he wishes they weren't, and this is not a safe place for our marriage to heal.

 

I said that I'm at the point where I need to be released from feeling this hurt, anxious and worried. And I know that he does, too. I told him that whether he wants to admit it or not, he's had an affair. I said, I don't know if you don't want to admit it because you think an affair can only be a physical betrayal or if you just don't want to admit that you're a person who has had an affair, but you have. And all contact with her, professional or not, has to end in order for us to move on. You can't justify holding onto the anticipation of being near her, even if it's from afar, with office logistics. This is our marriage and any kind of logistical or office complication should be insignificant compared to this.

 

I said that I leave on Sunday for my work conference and I return next Wednesday night (a week from today). I need him to get off of the fence and make his decision. If the decision isn't to do what's best for our marriage, I have to do what's best for me and move out. I said that I won't be moving out just to wait it out for him, but I will be filing for a divorce.

 

I said it isn't a threat or an ultimatum and I've thought about it and am prepared to follow through. I know that I love him and would do whatever is necessary to end this nightmare for him. Knowing that he won't do the same for me is breaking my heart.

 

He said that he had one question. He asked if he has to have completely removed her by next Wednesday or if it's ok that he has a plan that is in motion. I said it's ok if the plan is in motion, but it has to actually be in motion. I said you've been saying for weeks that you've been "thinking of a way" but I haven't seen any action.

 

Yesterday

 

Well...she's now permanently on his team at work. She also still tries to keep her foot in the door with him by persisting in asking him how he's been, how his weekend was, is anything is wrong, etc. Once again he delayed telling me with the reason that absolutely nothing is going on with her and he knew it would make me even more uneasy if I knew. He said that he doesn't ever initiate the conversations with her and that he just answers short answers. Usually those questions precede an actual work question. Though he admitted that he isnt doing everything he "could be doing" to discourage her. He said he answers because he doesn't want her to get weird and start asking him why he's not talking to her. As you can imagine, I don't give a flying ---- what she does. He admitted he was handling it wrong and that from now on he just won't reply or he'll simply ask her what her work question is. As for being on his team, he swears it's bad timing and horrible circumstances and that he never thought this would happen. He tells me he really is working on changing shifts (to a very undesirable shift) but that it takes some time to do so. And he'll have to come up with something to tell his team as to why (which I also don't care about).

 

I'm just drained from this. He swears he wants things to work with us, even though he, too, feels "beaten and exhausted" from our repeated negative conversations that seem to consist of accusations and demands.

 

I have no doubt he's a jerk for lying. I also have no doubt he's honest about why he lied. I have no doubt this work situation needs closure - and soon. He had dug himself into a ditch and by his own doing, it's become a trench.

 

An honest liar?

 

But I do know he is bitter about me treating him like I'm the "parent" and interrogating him. Which I do - admittedly not just about this. How do we break this cycle? Who should rightfully be the one who goes out on a limb and gives the other what they desperately and honestly need first?

.

 

First of all, it makes no difference. You don't need to break the cycle because your marriage will not survive this situation. Do you think the act of solving your parental interaction will magically cause him to stop lying to you and resolve his work issues? I don't think so.

 

A this point...I am going to suggest you completely disengage. Do not call, text, email, respond to, calls, texts, emails unless there is some emergency. This is not an emergency. Do not discuss, beg, convince, guilt nothing.

 

Extend your work trip or take a detour (remember how I confessed to be a runner?). Drop off the face of the earth. You can send one single note saying you are fine, needed some time alone to think and you will be back in a couple days.

 

Call a lawyer, know your rights. You don't have to file yet, just interview someone to make sure you know what your options are in your area. Find an apartment you can afford and would like to live in.

 

Go find an infidelity therapist, someone who believes in EA s and go alone.

 

Most importantly just stop talking about it. He will or he won't and right now he's not.

 

Take care.

[Yasuandio]

IIWII give sound advise that follows tune of your ultimatum.

 

At the very least - do not discuss this chick at all, never again. I think this guy is getting off on two women wanting him. You do know that is part of the thrill, correct?

 

Yes, IIWII, I saw that Honest Liar too. I love it, heard that line so many times from being married to a pathological liar. "Honest, I'm telling the truth this time." Ha-ha! Or, once caught in the lie, "now you know the truth." Whenever I get truth under protest, or truth that comes after the fact, or truth by "commission" (person is suddenly forced to tell truth cause they are caught to soon to be caught) - I always consider that sort of "truth" tainted or very possibly "trickle truth" - where there may be more truth than has been forthcoming from subject.

 

I like the extended conference idea too. I used to go on events like that. But I would not be able to focus if I had a situation like yours at home.

 

Oh, one one thing. If the poor little guy has too take the unattractive shift - it will all be blame-shifted onto YOU. Maybe this young lady can be let go - down-size. He can go to his boss and tell the truth, then company get rid of her.

 

But I make another little bet Mrs. S. No offense intended. I think you husband was responsible for her promotion onto the team. He has been her mentor and more. If he didn't want her on the team, she wouldn't be on the team. Men discuss what they want on the golf course or smoking cigars behind closed doors before anything really happens. I'm sorry to tell you, mark my works. Yas

[trippi1432]

Mrs. S - All sound advice here and not much I can add, but I did miss the part on a previous post where you had talked to this woman...and she is still over-stepping marital boundaries. However, your husband is still culpable...more so, because he does lie by omission.

 

I have to agree with Yas as well, it was a power struggle in the beginning of him getting what he wants at any cost to the marriage...but now, it seems like a thrill to him. How can he smooze you over to make things okay between the two of you while he still gets the attraction from this other woman at work.

 

It may be time to put yourself first, what you want, what you need and not what he gives you (crumbs). Not in saving the marriage, but securing your basic need for self-respect and keeping your dignity. I agree with the above too...I would talk to a lawyer and know my rights before this becomes full out gas-lighting.

[redfathom]

First, sorry for typos I am in my phone.

 

Mrs. S, I have read your thread over the past two days. I find a similarity to my situation with my husband, except the OW is porn. We have been married over 13 years and porn has always been an issue. Overtime j learned to accept it as my husband said he would not give it up. He made the issues about my lack of self esteem and something I needed to fix or get over. Fast forward to me saying we should divorce (more of a threat hoping he would take me seriously), him looking at casual encounters he claims if just for the excitement that he would never cheat, the trust eroded from our relationship, and him insisting I have hurt him and that he took thinks divorce would be better.

 

Yet, in these discussions I am the bad guy. For what happened in our marriage and what his life will be like after. Even in MC he denied there being anything wrong with porn and that he was being ganged up on. Despite this I do love my husband and wonder how I can fix what is wrong with me.

 

Like you I have asked why porn (like the OW) was more important than my feelings or our marriage and he said I am just overreacting. Even the MC said if one person in the marriage has a problem with something than it does become important. Just not enough to change I guess.

 

Hopefully MC will work. You have been given some good advice.

[Mrs.S.]

Thank you - EVERYONE - for the amazing advice. I want to respond more specifically and will do so when I'm back at home in front of an actual computer so I can more easily quote and copy/paste, etc.

 

I got an email from my husband today - it was a forward of an email he sent to her. Here is what it said:

 

Subject: Communication

 

Moving forward, please limit any communication with me to only ABSOLUTELY

NECESSARY job-related questions. I do not want to have any type of personal

communication with you, including stuff like “how are you” or “how was your

weekend” and things like that. It is not appropriate given what has happened in

the past.

 

He also sent me a screen cap to show me it was actually sent. He told me he just wants to move on and that he is still working to change teams. I'm cautiously optimistic. He said she didn't respond, but also didn't ask him any work questions after that.

 

The real task at hand is rebuilding our marriage, friendship and trust with each other. But I really hope this was a first step in creating a safe situation in which to do that. I'm trying not to seem overly relieved or placated by this because I don't want him to think my world is now rainbows and butterflies because he did what I wanted. That would not help our dynamic issues.

[2sunny]

Is he willing to do counseling?

 

I'd suggest it - for him - so he can learn how to grow up and take the lead!

 

It must be tiresome playing the role of his Mommy all the time.

 

I also find it hard to believe he didn't have any say in who the company places on his team. I just don't believe him. If anything - he could have REFUSED having her placed permanently on his team.

 

Saying NO WAY is part of being a boss. He should have said no way to her being on his team.

 

He plays the weak one. But ONLY if it works to his advantage.

[2sunny]

I think he ALLOWED your M to be ruined (again) by having her permanently on his team!

 

He's showing you (again) that his job (which now INCLUDES the OW) is more important than you and the marriage.

 

He's made his choice with his actions.

 

 

His trickle truth comes later (lies). Only when he thinks it may help with damage control.

 

But - AFTER he's already allowed a situation to happen that he knows will make you angry.

 

He's not using action to save the M - he's just trying to be sure he keeps both (you and the OW).

 

I think his involvement with her is deep. I think it feeds his ego. He likes it.

 

And I think he lies about it way more than he's ever going to admit!

 

You had your boundary - and he's crossed it again. What do YOU plan to do about that now?

 

Unless e quits his job - I can't see his effort to change this.

[Yasuandio]

1. The portion that really concerns me about his little communication he shared with you is: "given what has happened in the past.". What does that mean?

 

2. There is nothing wrong with saying "how are you?" or "how was your weekend?" to people at work. That is normal discourse between people.

 

3. If I was in HR, I'd be real concerned if that "communication" was brought to my attention.

 

4. The "couple" could have agreed on the "communication" to shut you up. Surely it was not copied to anyone in an official capacity - so what good is it anyway?

 

5. Suppose she simply enters a meeting and states a basic greeting, such as "hello, how are you?" Does this "communication" warn her that her job is her

job and references could be danger?

 

Lot of ways to look at this, Mrs. S. Don't get your hopes up. Like dr. Harvey said, reconciliation is impossible with the third party present. But that is not your problem, it is his. He must think you are a real dumb shyt to be placated with that memorandum. If I were you, I would refuse to discuss the matter. And send him the follow communication:

 

In the future, "given what has happened" between you and the young lady at your work place, I would appreciate it if you would stop bringing the

matter to my attention.

 

Sorry Mrs. S., I think if you carrfully analyze this email, you will see he gave himself away. Any girl that received an email like that from her superior at work - [that she was originally mushy with] - would head straight to HR or to an sexual harassement attorney (and she is not going to - cause it was a plan between them).

 

Seriously, how could the girl work there under those cumcustrances - after receiving that communication? This is not her fault. She should not be treated like a "non-person" at work because your husband crossed the line. I'm not saying she is perfect - but so far - she is being accused of saying "how are you" and "how was your weekend.". That doesn't't sound like a crime.

 

 

I pray it is not that way, Hon. YAS