Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[2sunny]

If it were me:

 

And my H knew full well that talking to her - communicating in ANY way shape or form - is another betrayal to me - to the M... And he stated that to his OW and then...

 

He kept her on his team

He kept that job since she's there

He RESPONDED to her in conversation in the hallway!

 

I'd F-ing divorce him so fast his head would swim!!!

 

Oh ya - I did!

 

When you have to lead a man to honor and respect you, your wishes, your marriage and continue to check up on whether or not he's doing that - well, it indicates he's just not making enough effort to make him believable!

 

He says one thing = he does another. That ALWAYS equals lying!

 

He just continues this passive aggressive behavior where he makes promises, tells you what you need to hear - and then does whatever HE WANTS to feed his big fat ego - all at YOUR HURT FEELINGS AND EXPENSE!

 

Same thing - no change from him. Still even lying for weeks and telling you later - no can do - it still makes him a liar (again) by omitting his truth!

 

He could be banging her - but he's never gonna tell you that!

 

He's not trustworthy! He hasn't been earning trust back - in fact, he's destroying more so as time goes along - and he's doing it on purpose!

 

He's sneaky, he covers up, he avoids, he destroys the possibility for ANY intimacy to grow! He SUCKS!!!

 

And if you continue - you're allowing it at this point - because he's one thing = CONSISTENT! Yes, he consistently sucks - and ruins any chance at making things better!

 

You've given him way too much time - he's made it worse, not better!

 

If it were me - he'd be gone now! That way I could regain MY peace of mind knowing my HUSBAND wasn't betraying me further every time he kept his truth from me!

 

I don't trust him - I think his affair with her runs very deep - but he'd NEVER TELL YOU!

 

And that is good enough reason to divorce him!

 

He doesn't have your back - he's the one still betraying you! THAT isn't love!!!

Edited August 23, 2013 by 2sunny

[Yasuandio]

I'm gonna just make a couple simple observations.

 

First, you say, it's not going good. And you do not sound exactly enthusiast, Mrs. S.

 

Second, husband is giving you information about his contact with girl - albeit sometime after the fact. That could make him feel (in his mind) that he is, at least telling you, and being honest. Your "not so happy" response" could also could be turned around, to be perceived by husband as "ungrateful" - making you bad guy. Know what I mean? Kinda like blameshifting.

 

Third point, none of these hallway encounters would happen if they were not in same building.

 

Fourth, if One, like your husband, is relating information about conversations he agreed not to have with the girl (after the fact), is it possible there are other things he is holding back? I'd say a big YES. The reason why I say a big YES, is because it is seems more logical to say nothing if nothing is actually happening. The fact he is saying "something" (after the fact, on top of it), suggests to me that what he does admit could be a smokescreen. If there's nothing, what's to discuss? A stupid encounter in the hallway where she asks: "hello, how have you been?". What's wrong with that?

 

Well, there probably was something wrong with it - he just left that part out. He could have checked her out (looked her up and down with his eyes in a flirtatious way or visa versa). They could have winked. Any number of non-verbal things could have happened in the encounter to discourage or encourage the relationship. These are the reasons why so much research states that it is difficult if not impossible for the betrayer to move on from the temptress unless they are totally and completely removed from the working environment, period. That includes the possibilty of running into the temptress in the parking lot.

 

But this is not your problem anymore. The more u talk about it - the more u look like the bad guy. I really do think u just have to drop it. Not even respond to his announcements of how good he did at work avoiding her, or whatever. (What are you supposed to do, reward him with a dog bisquit?).

 

I think just sitting back and listening carefully to his statements about the girl at work - without any imput from you, is enlightening enough. To even discuss or negotiate this matter is beneath you at this point. Just keep your ears open - and listen carefully, and see how often he brings up the matter when u do not partipate or react. That will be interesting. Hope this helps. Yas

[It-is-what-it-is.]

How you doin?

[2sunny]

How you doin?

 

I'm wondering too - you ok?

[Mrs.S.]

I hope you all had a good holiday weekend. Thanks for asking for an update - I've been offline for the past week trying to take a breather over the holiday.

 

We had counseling again on Friday and Friday night my husband came home from work and he immediately asked me to spend time with him, he was affectionate, etc. and we had a great night. On Saturday and Sunday we spent time together and on Sunday afternoon he invited me on a date for that night, including a time when he would "pick me up." It was really nice and he did everything from calling ahead to the restaurant, helping me into the car and opening the car door after dinner. Monday was his birthday and although he went into work for an hour to move his office stuff to his new team area, he kept in touch the whole morning. On Tuesday, he texted me from work - three hours into working with his new team and told me that he had an opportunity to work 3 p.m. until midnight rather than the 4/10 hour days per week that he's now doing. Needless to say I was upset and told him that I didn't think it was a good idea to have such opposite schedules right now and that it would put him right back into a situation in which he could end up working with her again. He said it wouldn't be possible at all, but that he understood how he presented the opportunity to me thoughtlessly.

 

I feel like we turned a corner for the better this weekend, but I'm still so untrusting that he's ended all contact with her. I imagine them scheming together to get back onto the same team and him stopping by her cubicle to chat and her messaging him all day long. I know it's extremely far fetched and that my husband wouldn't be putting forth the effort that he has been and even changed his entire schedule and team if he wasn't sincerely trying to do his part to work on things between us. Regardless of how late-coming this effort is. I know that most of it is mistrust/fear rather than actual substantiated suspicion, but I still can't help it. And though it's a little less lately, I still get so overwhelmingly angry picturing how long he had been forming this friendship with her, how much he enjoyed her, how much he thought she meant to him and how he pursued her over email, IM, daily office visits and text message - all while I had no idea he even had someone else in his life. It infuriates me still.

 

I don't know if this part of it is mainly my problem to forgive and move forward or if my gut is telling me to remain on guard. I feel like if I've told him that we can move forward, I should actually follow through and do it or else tell him that I won't. He's been more understanding, though - not being defensive, answering questions, etc. but I still feel like he's defensive of anything negative about her personally. It's insignificant if they're not even friends anymore, but I still absolutely hate sensing it.

 

I still have that horrible anxious feeling when he's at work - like every minute that he's there, he's fighting his temptation to talk to her. And every time something funny or interesting happens, his first instinct is to want to tell her. Ridiculous, I know, but I still see this as a (maybe) truth.

 

Advice? And thanks for checking in with me!

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I am glad he is trying, and I am glad he appears to be better.

 

 

Well...first...always trust your gut.

 

That doesn't mean SAY anything. But be observant.

 

Second I have some questions.

 

Has he ever admitted the words emotional affair? What does he call it?

 

In MC are you talking about this or only marriage, communication issues? What do they say?

 

You said he defends her. Explain the circumstances. This is a red flag.

 

Other than the date, and the texting that day he changed desks...what actions has he proactively taken to help you be comfortable?

 

 

Iiwii

[2sunny]

The change is good to hear/see.

 

My hope is that he continues with loving behavior toward you - and that he is showing you that he's thinking about how you feel...how his words and actions affect you.

 

If he can do that - it could really turn things around.

[Mrs.S.]

Has he ever admitted the words emotional affair? What does he call it?

 

He adamantly refuses to use the words or admit that he had an "affair," "cheated," "pursued her," "liked her," "wanted to be with her," etc. He refers to it as a "mistake" and that they were "buddies" and it got "overblown" because he "just liked the attention."

 

In MC are you talking about this or only marriage, communication issues? What do they say?

 

We talk about both and how our communication issues are getting in the way of working through this.

 

You said he defends her. Explain the circumstances. This is a red flag.

 

When I point out how trashy, unintelligent, disrespectful, low-class and immature she is, he just clams up and says, "I have no opinion." The only thing he admits to sometimes is that she's not that smart. But clearly in his world superficial attention trumps intelligence.

 

Other than the date, and the texting that day he changed desks...what actions has he proactively taken to help you be comfortable?

 

He doesn't fight back when I'm upset or ask questions. He says he understands that he's at fault for this situation and that he takes full accountability for his mistakes. He says that he is working on his problems that we've talked about during counseling (lying, stonewalling, distancing). He says that he knows he won't make the same mistake again because we're working on what went wrong in our marriage and he understands what led him down the path of what he did with the girl at work. He has quit talking about divorce and splitting up and is focusing on working on things together.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

He adamantly refuses to use the words or admit that he had an "affair," "cheated," "pursued her," "liked her," "wanted to be with her," etc. He refers to it as a "mistake" and that they were "buddies" and it got "overblown" because he "just liked the attention."

 

Buy the book "Not Just Friends" ask him to read it. This is a red flag. What does your therapist say about this. Didn't he SAY to you that he had feelings for her?

 

We talk about both and how our communication issues are getting in the way of working through this.

 

Buy the book "The Five Love Languages" read it together.

 

 

When I point out how trashy, unintelligent, disrespectful, low-class and immature she is, he just clams up and says, "I have no opinion." The only thing he admits to sometimes is that she's not that smart. But clearly in his world superficial attention trumps intelligence.

 

Never bring her up. Never talk about her. This should be something you address only in therapy. This is not good. Basically, I believe this means he is holding fond feelings for her. This is probably why, in spite of his actions, your gut still screams.

 

He doesn't fight back when I'm upset or ask questions. He says he understands that he's at fault for this situation and that he takes full accountability for his mistakes. He says that he is working on his problems that we've talked about during counseling (lying, stonewalling, distancing). He says that he knows he won't make the same mistake again because we're working on what went wrong in our marriage and he understands what led him down the path of what he did with the girl at work. He has quit talking about divorce and splitting up and is focusing on working on things together.

 

Ok...it's a start.

 

Does your therapist specialize in infidelity?

 

IIWII

[2sunny]

Since he stated that he liked the "attention" he got from her... Has he spelled out exactly what that looked like?

 

Has he told you specifically what he needs from YOU to feel that attention is being met by you?

 

When he's honest - he needs to be telling you what his needs are and allowing you two to discuss what that may look like for BOTH of you.

[Mrs.S.]

I thought I should post an update. I don't even know where to begin. A week and a half ago (on a Saturday) I found an email from my husband to this girl from his personal email address. She had emailed him to say hi and said she "kinda missed talking to him." I took that to mean that they hadn't spoken in a while and that he was being honest. However, HIS response back to her was that it was great to hear from her and he asked her how her vacation was. He told her what he was doing that weekend (no mention of me) and that he hoped she was having a really good weekend, too. He also said that he didn't want to be a "downer," but could she email him at his work email address because his personal email was a "little too open." He said it wasn't worth the risk and that he would check his work email whenever he could.

 

I asked him if he had been emailing with her and he looked me in the eye and said no. I called him out on it and he admitted that he had never stopped talking to her, not once this whole time. He admitted that he actually thought of her as a personal friend and he was just too deep into it to stop because they had been friends for so long now. He said that he still wasn't sure about us and that he had been forcing himself to act like he was in love with me again. I freaked out, then I told him calmly that he's had enough time to decide and that he should leave. I told him that I'm not a tough decision and if it was that tough to him, I didn't want him.

 

He actually tried to negotiate with me on a compromise to stay with me but to keep her as a friend. I told him to leave. He sat in the bedroom for two hours while I went about my business in the other room. Finally he broke down and told me that he was trying to convince himself to leave, but that he realized that he can't be without me and that he's finished trying to act tough and being selfish. He said that he does love me more than anything and that he really doesn't want her in his life. He said he'd quit his job and do anything I asked of him. He promised that he would do whatever it takes for however long it takes for me to feel loved and safe again. On Monday he emailed her and said that he wants nothing to do with her and that nothing will ever undermine his commitment to his wife or his marriage or call it into doubt ever again. She went home early that day claiming to be sick. He took off from work the rest of the week and spent the week apologizing to me and doing things for me that he said he should have been doing all along. He says he doesn't care how angry I am at him or how long it takes to earn my trust back.

 

I've been cautious, but something in me won't give up on him. I don't why.

 

Today he texted me that his director and HR called him in to talk to him. Apparently she's been busted for "excessive use of company resources on non work-related things" or something like that. However, they noticed all of the emails and messages between the two of them and though there was nothing inappropriate in nature, he was busted for the obviously personal closeness of their friendship and therefore "putting the company at risk" with the possible perception of preferential treatment and also talking to her about work things that he didn't share with the other team members in the same manner. He may get into serious trouble.

 

What a mess.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[trippi1432]

MrsS - It's time to let him fall......

 

You've picked up the pieces for far too long and he won't learn until he loses.

[Yasuandio]

I may have said this before. Sometimes when people finially admit they did something inappropriate or wrong, it is not inhuman to hold back some of the gory details.

 

I'm not saying, "I told you so." I just really disappointed in him. Cause he didn't just hold back some information (which I suspected), he just out and out BSed you, like you are a nonperson. And just went on doing what exactly he wanted. To me, the details that were likely held back in the original story were pretty involved.

 

To try to convince you to live with him and his "friendship" strikes me as a request for cake-eating. [there is a great book, "Not Just Friends"]. How rediculious. That kind of dumb idea can only come from someone in the "fog-zone."

 

Now - the losses are starting to come. Not one at a time either. First, girl is lost from the job. He is no longer an authority figure to her. There is no more clandestine play at work - it's out of the closet. Well, that party is over - and will take the thrill away for sure.

 

Second loss, could be his job and position, and standing in his field. How will his colleagues feel when this young lady got preferencial treatment? Loss of respect of your colleagues because you can't keep it zipped (and that is what they are going to believe - not EA), is bad, especially for a married man. If he losses his job he may have to begin a new career depending on what his work is.

 

The most important loss of all, you. And in what order did his sudden realization of your value cause him to take time off to "work on things?"

 

Hon, he was effing this girl. You have to wrap your head around. The proof is in the fact he wanted to stay "friends" with her. That was code for "he want to maintain access to her body." I am sorry to be so blunt, Mrs., but it is so clear to see from the outside in.

 

Sweetheart, you have only been married a very short time to this guy, 4 years, right? This is not a good character sign. Cheat, lie, blame-shift onto wife, cheat, lie at MC, make wife hear about his feelings for girl, promise not to see girl, see girl, promise not to see girl, omit telling wife girl is on team, cheat more, screw your colleagues over by giving girl prefencial treatment, cheat, get caught, ask if you can keep girl as friend, get in trouble at work.

 

Did I leave anything out? If you still want to convince yourself it is an EA, well, that is cheating too.

 

Now he will do anything. Right. Here is my advice. Re-read your thread. Look for that post where he was telling you how he still had the feelings for her, and thought of her, gag. Print it off, and read it every morning. He needs a bar of soap in his mouth.

 

When he can go all "baby-boo-hoo" on you suddenly, re-read the posts when he was Mr. Attitude, he had it all. Job, Gorky-girl kissing up to him, and wife despately trying to save marriage. Reduced to anonymous forums for advice. Well - he's not so cocky now is he? You know? He knows what side his bread is buttered on. What will happen if he looses his job? That is his concern right now. Who is gonna pay the ESPN channel, if Mommy moves out?

 

Hope this helps Hon. I know my style is a little sacastic, but I mean from my heart to help you. I am so very sorry about this news. Yas

[2sunny]

I'm not surprised to read the new info...the evidence was there all along.

 

I do have a few questions.

 

Did he move out (consequences)?

 

Did he admit to a physical affair? As you now know - he bold face lies to you.

 

Did he quit the job yet as he offered?

 

 

 

 

He hasn't respected or honored you one bit. He's not honest. He's not the man you thought he COULD BE!

 

The bottom line is - there's no trust - there's no respect. So what do you have? None of that is loving BEHAVIOR! He's ruined it all by what he's been doing and not doing vs what he's been saying.

 

Now he is having some consequences slapping him into reality - and all I can see is him trying to manipulate his way into staying comfortable again.

 

Guess what comfortable gets YOU? A lying, sneaky, manipulative cheater!

 

I hope you are strong enough to lay down your boundary and make it perfectly clear to him "I'm not living with your crappy behavior any more"!

 

YOUR action and follow through means more than your words.

Edited September 25, 2013 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

I hope you are ok.

[vla1120]

I'm sorry Mrs. S. I hope you are doing okay. You deserve honesty and faithfulness. He has shown you neither. If he's in trouble with his job, I chalk it up to Karma. Keep your chin up!

[imtooconfused]

I feel sorry for Mr. S (Mrs. S’s husband). He will never again know what it is like to have a friend that he can freely share his thoughts, feelings, aspirations, fears and joys. By blocking any attempt at finding this kind of happiness outside of the home, Mrs. S has guaranteed that he will never be able to find peace for himself at home. It truly makes me sad that he is so p**sy whipped that he cannot see that she is just crushing him as a man, and that he agrees to this kind of abuse.

 

I do hope that Mrs. S has found sufficient satisfaction in the total and utter defeat of her husband because that satisfaction alone will need to sustain her for the remainder of the marriage. She will find that the shell of a man that he will become is nothing like the man that she thought she knew when she married him, and it will not be an attractive thing to witness.

[vla1120]

I feel sorry for Mr. S (Mrs. S’s husband). He will never again know what it is like to have a friend that he can freely share his thoughts, feelings, aspirations, fears and joys. By blocking any attempt at finding this kind of happiness outside of the home, Mrs. S has guaranteed that he will never be able to find peace for himself at home. It truly makes me sad that he is so p**sy whipped that he cannot see that she is just crushing him as a man, and that he agrees to this kind of abuse.

 

I do hope that Mrs. S has found sufficient satisfaction in the total and utter defeat of her husband because that satisfaction alone will need to sustain her for the remainder of the marriage. She will find that the shell of a man that he will become is nothing like the man that she thought she knew when she married him, and it will not be an attractive thing to witness.

 

You're kidding, right? If he were sincerely only "friends" with this woman, he wouldn't have to lie to his wife, tell his "friend" to email him at work so Mrs. S cannot see their emails, etc. I have had male friends throughout my marriage. I never hesitated to share their emails with my husband, invite them to do things with my family, etc. This was not a harmless, innocent, friendship, at least not in my opinion.

 

By the way, cheaters lie ALL the time. Most people out here will always be suspicious of situations like this, especially the ones who've been cheated on and recognize the cheaters' behaviors and red flags.

Edited September 27, 2013 by vla1120

[imtooconfused]

You're kidding, right? If he were sincerely only "friends" with this woman, he wouldn't have to lie to his wife, tell his "friend" to email him at work so Mrs. S cannot see their emails, etc. I have had male friends throughout my marriage. I never hesitated to share their emails with my husband, invite them to do things with my family, etc.

 

No, not kidding in the slightest. And I am happy for you that you have a husband that is not so controlling and insecure that he would threaten to divorce you if you if he so much as found a text message from another man on your phone. Mr. S is not in such a trusting environment. Every time he reveals the truth, he is met with further threats. It's human nature to avoid such abuse and fall back to mistruths and outright lies. All cheaters lie, but not all liars cheat.

 

This was not a harmless, innocent, friendship, at least not in my opinion.

 

However, they noticed all of the emails and messages between the two of them and though there was nothing inappropriate in nature...

 

Unfortunately your "opinion" is at odds with the opinion of those who have actually seen the emails. In summary, he was forced to choose between someone who was sincerely interested in spending time with him versus someone who wanted him to be under her thumb and he unfortunately chose the latter.

[2sunny]

No, not kidding in the slightest. And I am happy for you that you have a husband that is not so controlling and insecure that he would threaten to divorce you if you if he so much as found a text message from another man on your phone. Mr. S is not in such a trusting environment. Every time he reveals the truth, he is met with further threats. It's human nature to avoid such abuse and fall back to mistruths and outright lies. All cheaters lie, but not all liars cheat.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately your "opinion" is at odds with the opinion of those who have actually seen the emails. In summary, he was forced to choose between someone who was sincerely interested in spending time with him versus someone who wanted him to be under her thumb and he unfortunately chose the latter.

 

Her husband has consistently lied to her - with his words and his actions.

 

Any situation that is present at the moment is due to him - and his inability to be honest, respectful and loving to HIS WIFE.

 

THAT is ONLY on him! IF he wasn't behaving in such a way - NONE of this would be happening.

 

Maybe YOU are his OW?

 

Your ability to vehemently defend such piss poor behavior of the cheater - then take that sucky behavior that HE has displayed - and make it his wife's fault is just despicable for you to even consider.

 

HIS bad behavior is HIS!

Edited September 27, 2013 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

No, not kidding in the slightest. And I am happy for you that you have a husband that is not so controlling and insecure that he would threaten to divorce you if you if he so much as found a text message from another man on your phone. Mr. S is not in such a trusting environment. Every time he reveals the truth, he is met with further threats. It's human nature to avoid such abuse and fall back to mistruths and outright lies. All cheaters lie, but not all liars cheat.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately your "opinion" is at odds with the opinion of those who have actually seen the emails. In summary, he was forced to choose between someone who was sincerely interested in spending time with him versus someone who wanted him to be under her thumb and he unfortunately chose the latter.

 

..........

[imtooconfused]

Your ability to vehemently defend such piss poor behavior of the cheater - then take that sucky behavior that HE has displayed - and make it his wife's fault is just despicable for you to even consider.

 

As one who has experienced emotional abuse, I am able to recognize it when I see it. And I am equally appalled that this entire thread has been the prime enabler of such abuse.

 

I don't understand why you are even angry at me. Mrs. S seems to be getting just what she demanded, the original ultimatum. It's taken months for her to squash her husband, but after completely abandoning him emotionally over a two hour session, he finally relented. You should be overjoyed.

[2sunny]

As one who has experienced emotional abuse, I am able to recognize it when I see it. And I am equally appalled that this entire thread has been the prime enabler of such abuse.

 

I don't understand why you are even angry at me. Mrs. S seems to be getting just what she demanded, the original ultimatum. It's taken months for her to squash her husband, but after completely abandoning him emotionally over a two hour session, he finally relented. You should be overjoyed.

 

The one emotionally abusing here is the H - the cheater! Mainly because he isn't capable of truth.

 

If you can't recognize lies, cheating and manipulation - then something is off about your perspective.

 

This OP has lived through his lies - and now has some truth in front of her.

 

Stating perfectly clearly that his behavior is unacceptable to her is not abusive.

[imtooconfused]

The one emotionally abusing here is the H - the cheater! Mainly because he isn't capable of truth.

 

If you can't recognize lies, cheating and manipulation - then something is off about your perspective.

 

This OP has lived through his lies - and now has some truth in front of her.

 

Stating perfectly clearly that his behavior is unacceptable to her is not abusive.

 

That's good. I like that. It shows the true face of emotional abuse.

 

The first step in emotional abuse is to turn tables around. To make the abuser out to be the victim. Other steps include fabricating alternate realities (insisting that there is a physical relationship where no evidence of such exists) and setting up unrealistic and unattainable demands (cut off all contact with OW, even to the point of having to quit your well paid job).

 

My next message is for other men who are in a similar situation and stumble on this thread. Please know that regardless of the choices that the husband makes in this marriage, it is no longer a healthy relationship. The OP exhibits no care for the happiness of her husband. If you are a man in such a relationship, it makes no sense to run to the OW, but please, oh please for your own good, get out of this kind of marriage and breathe some fresh air. Despite what 2sunny may say, the husband is the one being manipulated here. Run now before it's too late.

[Yasuandio]

I'mtooconfused, it is unbelievable these recent posts you have made. You seem confused, alright. It is not ok to have a girl at work when you are married. And look at recent events. Both husband and girl are in trouble with HR at work (at no involvement with Mrs. S). They got in hot water all by themselves, through inappropriate conduct on the job - discovered by their own superiors. Wake up and smell the coffee. Re-read this thread, man.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Yasuandio