Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[2sunny]

The second big problem is that he doesn't seem to respect you...your feelings or even your wants or needs.

 

Seriously, what IS loving - and loving behavior - about how he's treating you?

 

If you need to beg him to be a decent person within your M - it's time for him to be single.

 

But I'd bet money you're not going to take action on that either.

 

You don't respect yourself - so that's part of why he doesn't respect you either.

 

We train people how to treat us - you've allowed him room to do things the way HE wants - even at the cost of hurting you.

 

Where does it stop? When you walk in on them having sex?

 

Do you know exactly where YOUR healthy boundary is? If you do - please explain what that looks like - because I can't see where your boundary is at all.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I think that the general consensus is that this is not about the girl. And I agree. However I do believe that your husband already is having an affair. The charge one gets from a flirtation, a new relationship, the sexual boost is very hard to compete with, it's chemicals like a drug, it's not "specifically" about her.

 

His conflict is because he doe not want to be "that guy" so he is angry and spreading anger around and tainting your marriage and you.

 

True...you aren't helping by being needy or continuing with the tension because it just feeds into his justification that he's unhappy (even if its marital rewriting). All the talking just validates that he's unhappy because his other relationship is so flirty and happy and easy (barf)

 

He is struggling because he wants to be single but he doesn't want to be the bad guy...right now, he does not want you or your marriage, he wants the yummy feelings of newness. I don't think you can keep him from the path he is on with flirty behavior or sexy underwear.

 

Love him enough to let him go down that path he is yearning for and get what he wants, but without you.

 

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, love and respect yourself enough to step out and take care of your own needs. Distance, separation, family support, friends.

 

I am sorry for you, this is awful and terrible. Best of luck.

[Mrs.S.]

Hello all. Thanks for your posts this weekend. This weekend was actually better - not perfect, but better. He told me that he was looking forward to spending the weekend with me and that he wants to work on our marriage and enjoy being together again. He told me that he agrees that the friendship with the girl should die and that he won't talk to her anymore at all. He said they didn't talk on Thurs. or Fri. and that he would tell me if she does contact him at work so that I feel like I can trust him again. He filled me in on what was going on at work and told me that he will stop shutting me out like he has been.

 

Like I said, I am cautiously optimistic and I know that I have to make sure that I hold up my end of things - to truly do my part to turn things around in a positive direction. I also need to make sure that I am not lost in all of this and am still taking care of myself.

 

I saw him make big efforts this weekend to show me that he wants our marriage to work. Whether he will really stop talking to her remains to be seen and only time will tell the truth, but he made real - and I feel genuine - efforts this weekend and I want to be sure to reciprocate. Right now it is baby steps for both of us, but he definitely reached out and told me that even though he's frustrated with where we are right now, we're doing what we need to do to work through it and get past a lot of our mutual anger and he said that he doesn't want to hurt me any more than he already has.

 

We have a four-day weekend this week together (and my birthday) and at the end of next week I go out of the country for 9 days. At the end of the month I'm out of town for work for four more days. I'm hoping that we can be steadily moving on the right track and when I come back towards the end of the month, we can take a fresh breath and really make progress.

 

Hopefully these were steps forward that will not be followed by even more steps back.

[Yasuandio]

Hello all. Thanks for your posts this weekend. This weekend was actually better - not perfect, but better. He told me that he was looking forward to spending the weekend with me and that he wants to work on our marriage and enjoy being together again. He told me that he agrees that the friendship with the girl should die and that he won't talk to her anymore at all. He said they didn't talk on Thurs. or Fri. and that he would tell me if she does contact him at work so that I feel like I can trust him again. He filled me in on what was going on at work and told me that he will stop shutting me out like he has been.

 

Like I said, I am cautiously optimistic and I know that I have to make sure that I hold up my end of things - to truly do my part to turn things around in a positive direction. I also need to make sure that I am not lost in all of this and am still taking care of myself.

 

I saw him make big efforts this weekend to show me that he wants our marriage to work. Whether he will really stop talking to her remains to be seen and only time will tell the truth, but he made real - and I feel genuine - efforts this weekend and I want to be sure to reciprocate. Right now it is baby steps for both of us, but he definitely reached out and told me that even though he's frustrated with where we are right now, we're doing what we need to do to work through it and get past a lot of our mutual anger and he said that he doesn't want to hurt me any more than he already has.

 

We have a four-day weekend this week together (and my birthday) and at the end of next week I go out of the country for 9 days. At the end of the month I'm out of town for work for four more days. I'm hoping that we can be steadily moving on the right track and when I come back towards the end of the month, we can take a fresh breath and really make progress.

 

Hopefully these were steps forward that will not be followed by even more steps back.

 

This sounds just wonderful. Congratulations. I recommend that you hire a private investigator for the nine days you are out of the country. Alternatively, and/or additionally, install a GPS into the bumper of his car, a key logger on the computer, and a nanny cam or two in the house (especially in the bedroom). No matter how it goes, no matter what you find out or don't find out, it will be the best money you have ever spent! Happy holidays! Yas

[Mrs.S.]

My therapist many years ago taught me a little simple technique - when the thoughts that were antagonizing me popped into my head - to just say to myself - "let's not go there."

 

I just read this little article, and it is about "letting go" of these agonizing thoughts completely - to achieve peace via a method called "mindfulness." I believe I have subconciously moved onto a similiar version of this method on my own as time has gone by, and I do feel more at ease, and peaceful. It is kinda like riding a bike - the method becomes habit forming.

 

Mindfulness and the Art of Letting Go

 

Maybe u will like this little article, and be able to try it to ease your mind.

 

Again, now mentioned by another poster, Mimi Tanner's Reverse Ultimatim is the bomb. I re-invented myself for real based on that program [see Chapter on "Living the Charmed Life"] - it is an outstanding methodolgy to apply to all dimensions of your life, love, work, and play!

 

You can get on a half dozen free daily email MiMi Tanner newsletter mailing lists that give you the basic building blocks of her systems. I have practically everything she has written (and other than Homer McDonald), these are the best investments I have made over the past few years. Hope this helps, Yas

 

Yas - I just read this article. I do like its message and I'm going through and reading some other relevant articles on this website. Thanks!

[Yasuandio]

Yas - I just read this article. I do like its message and I'm going through and reading some other relevant articles on this website. Thanks!

 

Try this:

 

The Reverse Ultimatum - Get a Commitment Without Conflict

 

As stated before, you can get on MiMi Tanner's mail e-mailing list to get some daily pointers on all her publications. This one is THE BOMB. Yas

[2sunny]

When his words match his actions - and for an extended

Period of time - that is when you will have evidence of trusting him again.

[BC1980]

There is also something else I think you should try. Google "Bob Grant, How do I get him back." It's really good stuff, and I found it through Mimi Tanner's website. It's showing you how to salvage your relationship and insights into how a man thinks. Check it out. I think it could help you tremendously.

[imtooconfused]

My therapist many years ago taught me a little simple technique - when the thoughts that were antagonizing me popped into my head - to just say to myself - "let's not go there."

 

I have to say if I was asked to choose only one thing that I have picked up from LoveShack that has helped me deal with bad feelings, wow, this one technique is a godsend. "Let's not go there" is now a well used tool from my therapeutic toolbox. Thanks yas, for having the foresight to mention this one.

[Yasuandio]

There is also something else I think you should try. Google "Bob Grant, How do I get him back." It's really good stuff, and I found it through Mimi Tanner's website. It's showing you how to salvage your relationship and insights into how a man thinks. Check it out. I think it could help you tremendously.

 

BC1980 is really on track his the reading suggestions for you. Mimi Tanner and Bob Grant are of a different genre than we normally recommend in the Separation and Divorce section. However, BC1980 was sharp in noting that your issues are being tremendously complicated by your communication styles with your man.

 

Bob Grant, who's office is right here in the town I live in, is also one of my favorite authors. In my opinion, his e-books are worth more than double the money. He essentially proposes that the woman should avoid participating in any arguements with a man (as you do), because they are the female, and the female is not going to stoop to that level essentially. He suggests to just simply state "I'm upset about that." -- And then stay quite - and go about your business. If approached - simply state again, "I'm still upset about this situation." and continue to refuse to engage in any relationship discussions, arguements, etc. Accordingly -- this quite time gives the man time to put the pieces together in his mind. Grant says -- the silence will cause the man to reflect on his improper behavor - and come to you with apologies and remorse, which is exactly what needs to happen, as your husband is in the wrong.

 

Thus far -- you have been pushing your husband away by demanding he stop the behavior -- Bob Grant, I would imagine, would say, you are trying to tell your husband what to do - like a mother. Rather than letting him come to his own conclusion. When you are push and pushing, that gives your man a reason to deflect his bad behavior onto you (as he has been doing). Bob Grant's take is that a classy woman doesn't lower herself to argueing with a man.

 

"Men respond to distance, not words." (Bob Grant).

http://www.bringyourloveback.com/

 

Of course, Grant has a multitude of teachings regarding how to properly communicate to your husband, and make yourself attractive and adoring to your husband, as well.

 

You can sign-up for informative FREE email newsletters on his advertising sites - just like on the Mimi Tanner sites. I get a little something on email just about everyday - which keeps me on my toes.

 

Good thinking BC1980. I had this material early on in the separation. But I had some trouble being patienct and properly implimenting the susggestions - due to my Big Fat Temper. Hopefully, Mrs. S. will have better success. Yas

Edited July 3, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Snowflower]

Mrs. S...how about an update? Hope things are okay!

[Mrs.S.]

Hi everyone. Again- THANK YOU for all of the resources and insight. I read both Bob and Mimi's websites and signed up for their emails. One thing that sticks in my mind is that (Bob I think says this?) women communicate and try to work on the relationship the way one would with another woman. That's paraphrasing, not exact words. But you can't communicate with men that way. How true, I'm learning.

 

I think I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to accept whatever outcome results from all of this. I'm not going to fight tooth and nail for a marriage just for the sake of marriage. It needs to be right for both of us. I calmly said this the other day and told him that perhaps he needs the rest of the year to figure some things out- he's been going through a depression also, which is like the quarter life crisis phenomenon even though he's a little past that age- and that I am willing to give him that space. He didn't say yes or no, but asked me what that would entail. I told him I'd get an apartment and we could take our time making any other decisions.

 

He didn't answer and kept saying that he's confused because fighting makes him want that, but not all the time. Yesterday I told him that I found four apartments to look at and we could decide together what might work. I went to bed and after a while he came in, got into bed, pulled me into a hug and asked me if I would give us one more chance. He said that he loves me and really wants to try and make it work. He said IF it doesn't, we will know we tried until we absolutely couldn't, but he isn't ready to stop trying. We both apologized for what we've been doing wrong. It wasn't a long talk, though.

 

It did make me feel good that he put down the wall last night. He's been adamant that he wants to put the girl at work behind him and that he has made a point to be "busy" at work and unavailable on their intraoffice online chat. He said she hasn't talked to him since last Wed. and he's letting it die on its own. He told me again that he was being naive and selfish and got caught up in someone else's attention to the point where he thought it was real.

 

Like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic. I definitely need to continue with the rules from all of the resources of no arguing, no demanding, no nagging, assert independence and logic, no ultimatums, be his friend, etc. The Let's Not Go There technique will be crucial, I think. I'll also be out of the country for 9 days starting next Friday and then for four days at the end of the month. The absence could serve us well, even though I've been worried about it up until now. If we can make good progress over the next week, the absence could work in our favor.

 

Please keep the advice and encouragement coming. Hopefully we've turned a corner in a way, but it's just the first of many to come.

 

Thank you!!!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[Yasuandio]

I think your new attitude of "pulling away" has had an effect on your husband. Also -- your complete williness to move out and get your own apartment, thus giving him plenty of space, I bet that really thru him for a loop! Isn't it nice to see results, Mrs. S.? But don't stop now to count any chickens. Pick up a newspaper, and circle some ads, roll it up and carelessly toss it on your bedside or dressing table. There is also a little handbook you can pick up in the Supermarket entranceway called "Apartment Finder." Why not just have the Guide, with a few pages dogeared, causually laying on your dashboard for good measure?

 

Now, what do these results mean? That is the question.

 

This trip coming up is perfect timing, Mrs. S.! I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming trip has something to do with his good behavior.

 

Have him serveilled while you are away. That will shift your paradigm - one way or the other:

 

A. He is actually contrite - and serious about the marriage - and has had no contact with the woman outside the office - you will be really satisfied that he is being honest, at least for now.

 

OR

 

B. He is a complete liar - and is two timing you -- and he will be reading the "Apartment Finder" guide. As, I think if you really saw him in a situation with this girl, in your own house -- his fanny would be on the street.

 

Now, if you do nothing, you will know nothing, really, which leads to a more neutral outcome:

 

C. Come back from trip and continue to live in limbo, suspense, bliss, and/or drama.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have another trick up my sleeve. Try this.

 

You must know, from reading the Marriage Builder's website, that breaking off an EA is not easy - and can cause symptoms such as depression and anxiety, and whatever. A few days before the trip, or even NOW, tell him you are considering canceling the trip to "be here to support him in his time of need." HAHAHAHAHAHA. :eek::laugh: (I never use smilies or LOL's, but this time - yes, I will).

 

I wonder how he might respond to that?

 

A. With gratitude.

 

B. He will be mortified!

 

C. Angry.

 

D. Confused.

 

E. Anxiously try to talk you out of it for your own good.

 

But, the whole idea would be just to see how his expression is on his face. You will know what it means - cause you know him best. And, of course, you are not really going to cancel the trip.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now here is another idea. Cancel the trip. Or, change the scheduling - and leave a few days later. Get a wig, and a rental car - and check into a motel. See for yourself what's happening.

 

An extramarital affair, I think, is an important factor to rule out. And you have a prime opportunity to catch him. But you have to be very smart.

 

And also -- if you get caught -- and have no evidence, he will turn it onto you, and he will make darn sure never to ever get caught.

 

Just some suggestions to mull over. Yas

[mbethb]

Mrs. S,

 

I just wanted to say that I wish you well. I wish I had found this website many months before and had been given the advice you've gotten and acted upon it. Perhaps, then, I wouldn't be in the midst of divorce and sharing my children with a man I cannot look in the eyes just have to be on contact with for the rest of my life.

 

I agree that you should have him under surveillance while you're away, just to be sure you're moving in the right direction.

 

Best of luck and congrats on a positive outcome.

[Yasuandio]

Mrs. S,

 

I just wanted to say that I wish you well. I wish I had found this website many months before and had been given the advice you've gotten and acted upon it. Perhaps, then, I wouldn't be in the midst of divorce and sharing my children with a man I cannot look in the eyes just have to be on contact with for the rest of my life.

 

I agree that you should have him under surveillance while you're away, just to be sure you're moving in the right direction.

 

Best of luck and congrats on a positive outcome.

 

I so wish the same as bolded above before I could totally embrace the bolded above. But that was then and this is now. mbethb, you said it, girl! All we, you and me, can do is go forward from here. That's it. History is history. End of story.

 

Our contributions on LS are what we can do after the fact to "Pay It Forward" - some listen, others go into denial and blah blah. My wager on this one a year from now - the later. (I hope not - but hope is just hope, and often called upon in hopeless situations, so)? We see. Yas

[Mrs.S.]

Our contributions on LS are what we can do after the fact to "Pay It Forward" - some listen, others go into denial and blah blah. My wager on this one a year from now - the later. (I hope not - but hope is just hope, and often called upon in hopeless situations, so)? We see. Yas

 

Wow thanks for your encouragement and vote of confidence. I feel that was really unnecessary and counterproductive. Your wager wasn't being sought out - why would anyone want to read about your anticipation of my failure? Disappointed by this.

[Yasuandio]

Wow thanks for your encouragement and vote of confidence. I feel that was really unnecessary and counterproductive. Your wager wasn't being sought out - why would anyone want to read about your anticipation of my failure? Disappointed by this.

 

Please prove me wrong.

[coaches24]

Please prove me wrong.

 

why not leave your personal bitterness to yourself and not throw it at others.

[Yasuandio]

why not leave your personal bitterness to yourself and not throw it at others.

 

So very sorry... My sincere apologies to you, everyone, and Mrs. S., that find my comment offensive. Yas

Edited July 4, 2013 by Yasuandio

[imtooconfused]

To It will take a while but (especially if you continue counseling at some level) he will come to understand how you are affected.

 

He told me again that he was being naive and selfish and got caught up in someone else's attention to the point where he thought it was real.

 

Are you seeing his change the same way that I am?

 

Please prove me wrong.

 

I, for one, have confidence you will.

[BC1980]

I think you have all the hope in the world at this point. Just read some of those books people mentioned. The info is great. There are some really positive signs from your husband that he is willing to try.

 

You sound so much better in your last posts compared to your first posts. You are much more in control, and that is great.

[Mrs.S.]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your encouragement. I'm still hopeful, but I found out yesterday (my birthday of all days) that the girl from work is temporarily back on my H's work team. He said her team's manager position is vacant so until they hire one, her team has been divided among the other managers. It's protocol that they get people they've managed before, thus she's now on his team. This means daily interaction, chats, meetings and mentoring responsibilities that he has for each team member. It also could mean a monthly one-on-one meeting if the situation lasts that long. This has been going on for two weeks- he said he didn't tell me because he is unhappy about the whole situation and he knew it would bother me very much. He swears that they only interact about work and that he keeps his replies short, but that he does have to be friendly and accessible to her. He said he hopes they hire a manager for her team soon and then he really won't have a reason to be in communication with her at all, but right now there's only so much he can do as far as ending their contact with each other.

 

I am beside myself. I don't know what to do. I'm angry that he didn't tell me, though I understand why it's the last thing he'd want to do. We're going to talk about it tomorrow and see if we can find a way to still make it work with us. Part of me just wants to be over this and give in to believing him that it's just a work situation and that he's out of the "fog." He said he's just as eager to be finished with her and this situation as well. But part of me wants to just walk away if he can't get her off his team immediately because this is total BS. He can't request her to be removed from his team because any reason would indicate that either something inappropriate is going on or that he's incompetent of managing people.

 

I have no idea what stance to take. It makes me sick to know that he's with her every day. And the possibility of her permanently rejoining his team will always be there. And he can't ignore her even though she has a reputation for being very needy and asking a ton of questions. He said he'd step it up with being discouraging of so much contact and admitted he hadn't been as obvious as he could have been. Of course now he can only do so much. But he swears it's only work-related and he spends no unnecessary time with her at all and it's only in a team environment. Quitting his job is not an option - and I wouldn't want to ask him to do that. He's in the process of getting his MBA practically for free and he's very well respected there.

 

I don't know what stance I should take when we talk tomorrow. I leave for my trip next Friday and it's killing me knowing that she's still so close to him. Do I put this on the back burner because there's nothing he can do about it now and he insists he wants things to work with us and that nothing between them even exists anymore and hasn't since he first told me about her? Do I insist on seeing his emails and IM chats with her? Is that a touch crazy? Or do I tell him that as long as he's managing her and talking to her, I will not be with him? That I'll move out and he can figure it out if he wants me back? Or do I leave it in his hands to take action and let the chips fall where they may?

 

I hate being so confused again, but I don't want to make an irrational and fearful decision just because I'm angry and hurt.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[Yasuandio]

You don't sound so confident tonight, Mrs.S. I know exactly how to help you, but you don't listen to me. You seem to flip my post a negative way. What you don't comprehend it that my posts are not just for you - they are for the readers that are also in your situation, and future readers that find themselves in your situation. I am so sorry for your anxiety. I really am. And of course, in my heart, I want to help you so bad, but I really hesitate to write any directions or opinions here on your thread now. Cause when I say what I have to say - I say it.

 

Good luck to you, Mrs. S., and my prayers for you, sincerely. Yas

[imtooconfused]

I am sincerely disappointed that he didn't have the courage to share this with you two weeks ago. But what can your husband do if they have been put together because of work? I don't have a hell of a lot of good advice for you tonight. The only thing I do know is that if you return to making her the focus of your energy, you are not putting it into the marriage.

[Mrs.S.]

I won't argue if you decide to withhold your thoughts. However, I never rejected or said I wasn't interested in your suggestions. I rejected only the negative sarcasm. And your suggestions are just that- suggestions. I'm not a robot that thoughtlessly acts on the word of others. I willingly and graciously take the suggestions, digest them, consider how they might be a good fit for who I am as an individual and then determine how I will act on it. Just because I don't go into auto pilot according to what one posts on here doesn't mean I don't appreciate one's advice.