Why does my husband want to sleep with me when he has another woman?

[lovemaynotbeenough]

I am starting from the very beginning...

 

My husband and I were together for 10 years (married 5). We have two boys ages 7 and 5.

 

Before we got pregnant with our oldest I caught him talking to another woman. I confronted both of them and was told that they were just friends. She said she told him on many occasions to tell me and not keep it secret and that he was the one that made that decision. He said the same thing.

 

After that there were a few occasion where people approached me telling me that he had cheated on me or had been talking to other people. I never had proof and he of course he denied all of this. I chose to believe him because I really didn't know these people and I love him.

 

Then when I was pregnant with our youngest he was caught again. It was a girl from work. I had suspicions and he of course denied. But when I got the phone bill all was revealed. He confessed then. He said that he spent the night at her house one night after a party. He swore they didn't sleep together and that he slept next to her on the couch but other people were sleeping in the same room. He admitted that they kissed one night at work.

 

After that he moved out for about a week when we decided to keep on trying to work it out. We made promises to each other to be honest. I confessed to him about kissing some guy at a bar when I had gone out with my girlfriends. and riding in some guy’s car to another bar on a different night out with the girls.

 

We got married after our youngest son was born. I still had major trust issues. We went out one night and I saw a guy I knew (a customer from work) and introduced him to my husband. My husband didn’t like it. We got into an argument. He said he was leaving and for me to get a ride with my friends. As the night went on and I had a few more drinks I wanted to go dancing. My friend didn’t want to. She offered to take me home when the customer from work offered to take me dancing. I went dancing. We went to one bar, danced, and then he dropped me off at home. My husband was sitting on the porch when I got dropped off. My husband said he never left the bar. He heard the guy offer to take me dancing and followed us. He knew where I was and knew I was telling the truth about nothing happened because there just wasn’t enough time from the time he saw us go in and the time I got home.(really nothing happened).

 

I felt awful after that. I know I was seeking revenge after all I had been through with his infidelity. I also knew that was no excuse. What I did was wrong! I knew I wanted to be married to the father of my children. I know it really bothered him. He brought it up a lot and I always backfired with how he had cheated while I was pregnant. It was a vicious cycle for a long time.

 

Sometime between then and now we had calm for some time. We seemed to have moved past all of that and were becoming stronger as a family. He knew all my passwords to email and Facebook. I would leave my phone out for him to go through if he felt the urge and he did the same for me. We both still had issues with it but seemed to gain much more trust than we ever had.

 

And then.... he changed his Facebook password. I thought we were doing great (aside from the normal fighting couples do) When that happened and he refused to give it to me…I started to get kind of nuts trying to get something on him. I accused him of trying to talk to both of my sisters (one of my sisters he really did say something totally inappropriate to) and even accused him of trying to talk to his own cousin. I know nothing ever happened there. I was just so crazy about thinking he was going to cheat again... (Geez! As I am typing this all out I am realizing just how bad things have been and it makes me really sad for my boys) I ended up finding him answering a Craig’s list ad. I can’t remember if I still knew his e mail password at that time or if he had left it up on the computer. But his story to that one was “I was really drunk from going to the bar. Nothing happened. I was just horny, missing you, and wanted to talk to someone but never got a response back” (our kids and I were out of town for a few nights) I actually believe that nothing came of it. Just the fact that he answered one of those hot and horny ads was enough to hurt me.

 

Now we move on to our current state... about 2 years ago he started a motorcycle club with friends. In the early days a guy joined (We will call him G). G and his wife had lots of problems. She had cheated several times with G’s friends, family, and her boss. From the very beginning of them coming around other wives in the club did not like her and were telling me I needed to watch out because they thought she was “after my man”. My husband’s mom was even in agreement with this. I thought it was crazy! I even remember having a conversation with my mother in-law where she told me I needed to do something about her. I said “What can I do? If he (my husband) chooses to go there… What can I really do? It is his choice and I know he loves me and wouldn’t do that.” My husband was actually really good friends with G. They said they were best friends and were “brothers” in the motorcycle club. Our families hung out together on a few occasions. I never really liked the girl but my husband tried hard to make me be friends with her.

 

Well...before thanksgiving those two (G and his wife) told everyone they were going to split after the holidays. (They have 2 kids and didn't want to ruin Christmas). Well I’m sure you know where this is going…. My husband left me in March. He said he wasn't happy. That there wasn't anyone else but he just couldn't do this anymore.

 

I had my suspicions from the time he told me he wanted to leave that he was talking to G’s wife. I asked him many times and he always said “No. I would tell you if I was because I wouldn’t want you to have to hear it from someone else.” He swore on his kids’ lives that he was not talking to her. But when I asked if he would please stay away from her he would say that he could not promise that. He said he was free to do what he wanted and I couldn't tell him who to talk to.

 

After about a month and a half of our separation he tells me he wants to start talking to G’s wife. I got mad and called G. He tells me that my husband has been talking to his wife since back before they decided to split. G basically said he is ok with it. That he doesn't want to be with her anymore and he has moved on with someone else and he and my husband will still be best friends!

 

The entire time my husband and I were separated we had been sleeping together. I would tell him that’s not what I want to be doing because it does not help me move on. He would agree but still try and I would give in.

 

Now we have been separated for 3 months... I still want him back. I have been through many different emotions. Anger when he first left... then sadness because I wanted him to come home. He refused. Said he had a taste of freedom and liked it. Then when I found out my husband and her were actually talking for months and he had been lieing to my face about it… I was angry again. For one week after I knew they were talking I refused to speak to him or see him unless it had to do with the kids. Then I was sad again. Missing him.

 

I told him we had to stop sleeping together. He always agrees but tries anyways. I know I shouldn’t! (Before I knew about the other woman I justified it by saying he is my husband and I love him and maybe he will come back) now I know for sure about her. He has told me he is attracted to her. That they have so much in common. When he tries to sleep with me I usually give in. There has only been one time I said no and stuck to it. I have to stop! Every time we do I am back to being depressed. But he won’t leave me alone and he knows I want him back.

 

This is such a long story and there’s so much more I think I should say...

 

I have always had a steady good paying job. He has always had a job but he has been a job hopper. Sometimes because he was getting away from a woman that he had been talking to behind my back or other times because he got tired of the job. He would just quit without having something else lined up leaving us in a major financial bind for several weeks.

 

I have always done all housework including taking care of the lawn. I rarely go out. I like family time with the kids and don’t like getting a babysitter every weekend. So he would go out a lot, especially since the motorcycle club started. I paid all of the bills and took care of all if the finances. He refused to even sit down with me so I could explain why we had no extra money. He did give me money towards bills but he made sure he got what he wanted before he gave it to me.

 

Look. I know he sounds bad. But I am not a saint. He tried to talk to me about not being happy and I would just brush it off. He told me every day I was beautiful and sexy and praised me for being a good mom. I rarely did those things for him. He cuddled me every night and I would ignore him or pretend to be asleep. I said some really mean stuff to him when I would get mad about the weight of all the responsibilities on my shoulders. Yes, he cheated many times. I know. I know there is really no excuse for cheating.

 

I love this man and I do want him back. Yes, I know things must change in our relationship on both sides. I am willing to try. He has not said since he left that he wants to come back. He has said "maybe...but not now. Maybe a year or two... But I want to be more than just dealing with the kids. I want to be friends I guess." That’s the usual gist of what he says he wants from me.

 

He now admits to going on one date with this other woman just a week or two ago. He is still denying ever sleeping with her. He says he talks to her every day several times a day and has for quite a while….. But that he still gets more excited to hear from me (for the past couple weeks I have been trying to do the 180 project) I slept with him today and I’m pissed about it. I am mad at myself for being so easily convinced. I know he is lying about not sleeping with her. I have no proof but he swore that they were not talking and I knew they were. At this point I know he is a liar and I should not believe what he says. It just feels so much better to believe those good things than to face the truth.

 

I am feeling down because I know what I need to do. I know I just need to let it go and move on. I need to leave him alone! It is just sooo hard. I miss him soo bad. I obviously have delusions of having a happy little family that we really never were in the first place.

 

I just would like others perspectives and advice on my situation please!

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[GuyInLimbo]

So, let me get this all straight. He's a serial cheater. Lies all the time. You can't trust him. You married him despite major trust issues. You guys still have sex despite all of this AND you want him back?

 

You need to get your arse to a therapist and figure out why you hate yourself so much to allow someone to treat you like this and you stay. Is this what you want your kids to think is normal and OK? How are you going to feel when they repeat this behavior when they are adults? Your H is a lying POS and you should stay far away from him.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

idk... I agree 100% that this is not good for my kids! I do not want them to be like their father! That just kills me that I had kids with such a piece of work that I fear my kids being like him.

He has done so many things and I have always made excuses for him to my friends and family. I have even given up friends for our relationship and told myself that its ok because I am working on my marraige....

I am punishing myself... Why? IDK! I had a great childhood. My parents are great parents. They had fights... mostly about money problems... but nothing major.

I do know that I have to let this go. For me..yes..but mostly for my kids. This is completly unhealthy. I keep telling myself this. I try to stay away from him then he gets mad. I don't want him to be mad I guess. Maybe I am affraid of him not giving me money that he owes or not seeing the kids... I am so confused.

But I do appreciate your comment. Even though it wasn't very nice I guess thats what I need to hear. The truth.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

"Is this what you want your kids to think is normal and OK? How are you going to feel when they repeat this behavior when they are adults?"

 

Dig-

When you said this you were probably also refering to my behavior. I am showing my boys that I am worth literally nothing! I should have said that in my last response. I can't put all the blame on him can I?

[GuyInLimbo]

"Is this what you want your kids to think is normal and OK? How are you going to feel when they repeat this behavior when they are adults?"

 

Dig-

When you said this you were probably also refering to my behavior. I am showing my boys that I am worth literally nothing! I should have said that in my last response. I can't put all the blame on him can I?

 

You got it!

[lovemaynotbeenough]

Any and all input/advise/words of wisdom will be appreciated. I pretty much feel defeated. I did not want to give up on my marraige/family. I have become obsessed with this. I can't think of anything else. I try to stay busy but it never leaves me. Concentrating at work has become hard. Doing things with the kids is hard. Talking about things other than this with family and friends is hard. I hate it! It is consuming me.

[eleve82]

Unfortunately at such a stage your only hope is that with time, he will come to his senses. But that is no guarantee he will come back. Meanwhile you need to find a way to move on - and I don't mean by jumping into a rebound relationship. What you can be sure of though, is that continuing to sleep with him and be around him does not give him any reason to treasure you more since he doesn't have to work for it.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

Thank you! You're right. I think I would like to be treasured.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

Just talked to my best friend about this. Her words: "I am dissapointed in you. Here is the thing. I can excuse only so many times. I understand you are an adult and you are going to do whatever the hell you feel but after a while it gets old. You are letting it happen and is hard for me to keep rooting for you to get over it. It's like when you watch Cops and after the wife gets the absolute **** beaten out of her she doesn't want her husband to go to jail. She is all like"but I loooove him". Is hard to take pity on them and you just start to feel like they deserve it now."

 

I know what I have to do. I have to completly leave him alone unless it has to do with the kids. My boys are not gaining anything with us staying together. I am showing them that you should let the people who are supposed to love you walk all over you and show no appreciation or respect. My husband is teaching them that men have no responsibilities in a marraige and its ok to treat loved ones like piles of crap. Not good!

 

I am still rooting for me. I can do this. I have to do this. There is no other option if I want happiness for myself and children.

 

Im sure I will keep up these posts. I hope more comments come in. I know I need to kerp getting slappef upside the head with the reality of my situation to stay on the right track.

[M30USA]

OP,

 

After reading your lengthy post, here are my few points of insight for whatever they're worth:

 

1) I'm sure you already know this, but continuing to sleep with your husband while separated is foolish for BOTH of you. It defeats the very purpose of a separation: to see whether or not you both are better off. It allows you to temporarily break free from your spouse to see if your problems are the result of each other (ie, the marriage) or are just individual problems that you both need to work on individually. Continuing to have sex keeps you emotionally tied so that you never get to see this clearly.

 

2) You clearly don't respect this man. You said you don't want your children becoming like him. I usually use this as a litmus test: the spouse you should be with is the one that you want your children to be like. He clearly does not fit that bill (for you at least).

 

3) Biology, feelings, and physical attraction win out 99% of the time over what a person knows is right and good. If you want the latter, you must make a concerted effort of the WILL. You must learn to master your feelings and even your physical desires. Otherwise you are a slave to them and will follow wherever they lead at any given moment--which is usually into chaos.

 

4) Stop asking why HE wants to keep sleeping with you and start asking why YOU want to keep sleeping with him. Nobody makes you do anything. You clearly want to keep doing this. Only you know why.

Edited June 21, 2013 by M30USA

[Yasuandio]

Title of your thread: Why does my husband want to sleep with me when he has another woman?

 

Here is my answers:

 

1. He wants to sleep with you to have sex.

 

2. Sleeping with you marks "his" territory.

 

3. Sleeping with you, his wife, and another woman means he gets sex from his wife AND sex outside the marriage on top of that - that is called "cake-eating." In other words, he is having his cake and eating it too.

 

4. Having you in sex mode keeps you emotionally invested in him through a pseudo-chemical control over you (google "oxytocin," a bonding hormone women release during sex and childbirth).

 

Now, how do you like that? Do you want to know how to avoid the problem? t is really easy. Do not have sex with him. Do you want to know how to make that happen? Do not be alone anywhere with him where sex can occur. You'll be amazed at how much clearer your mind will be. You'll probably notice some improvement in your self-esteem as well. Hope this helps. Yas

[hayewils]

I have to commend you on sticking around and trying and willing to save your marriage. To many people are so willing to just jump ship today.

My wife packed up and left over a couple of stupid arguments. She gave nothing to our marriage and nothing emotionally to me. You are the kind of woman any man would love to have in his life. You seem like a non quitter.

However, you are dealing with some serious crap from him that no good woman should tolerate. I was a single father with three children 10 years ago and you know what? We made it through. It was hard but you eventually fall into a routine. I had my boys in baseball and that was fun watching them and it kept us busy. You should also take into consideration, if he is out getting his fishing pole wet with a woman outside the marriage, hes probably fishing somewhere else also. I wouldnt have sex with him, who knows what kind of sea creatures he may pick up and bring home to you...

Think about it,

[GuyInLimbo]

Your best friend is a very good friend and speaks the harsh truth.

[M30USA]

Your best friend is a very good friend and speaks the harsh truth.

 

Yes, yes.

 

And those who, in saying "family first", never dare speak the truth to those nearest and dearest, are actually putting their family LAST.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

hayewils

"You should also take into consideration, if he is out getting his fishing pole wet with a woman outside the marriage, hes probably fishing somewhere else also. I wouldnt have sex with him, who knows what kind of sea creatures he may pick up and bring home to you..."

 

I have thought about it! Trust me. I have.

 

Thank you so much for saying you commend me for sticking around and being a good woman I did not want to quit! But at this point it really is just out of control.

 

The thing I want more than anything is for my kids to be happy and healthy (emotionally and physically). The example that my Husband and I are setting is not a good one.

 

He has never really proved that he wants to be the family man I have always dreamed he would be. And I have never really had much respect for him and he could obviously feel that or he would not have continuiously "talked" to other women.

 

I am sorry to hear that your wife left over something so minor and gave nothing to the marraige.

 

 

Thank you too Yas! I know it sounds so simple to just stop. I intend to go out of my way to make that happen from now on.

[M30USA]

hayewils

"You should also take into consideration, if he is out getting his fishing pole wet with a woman outside the marriage, hes probably fishing somewhere else also. I wouldnt have sex with him, who knows what kind of sea creatures he may pick up and bring home to you..."

 

I have thought about it! Trust me. I have.

 

Thank you so much for saying you commend me for sticking around and being a good woman I did not want to quit! But at this point it really is just out of control.

 

The thing I want more than anything is for my kids to be happy and healthy (emotionally and physically). The example that my Husband and I are setting is not a good one.

 

He has never really proved that he wants to be the family man I have always dreamed he would be. And I have never really had much respect for him and he could obviously feel that or he would not have continuiously "talked" to other women.

 

I am sorry to hear that your wife left over something so minor and gave nothing to the marraige.

 

 

Thank you too Yas! I know it sounds so simple to just stop. I intend to go out of my way to make that happen from now on.

 

What does "family man" mean to you? Please be very specific.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

Your best friend is a very good friend and speaks the harsh truth.

 

 

Yes she is! I am lucky for the wonderful friends and family in my life

[lovemaynotbeenough]

M30USA,

 

Family man to me...

 

A man that wants to spend time with his family including doing things that might not be his cup of tea because his kids or wife might enjoy it.

 

A man that takes care of HIS responsiblities.

 

A man that chooses family over recreation. (I understand everyone needs time away doing things they like with friends. I mean if plans have been made for "family time" to not always choose something that may sound more fun)

 

A man that chooses to take care of his home. Meaning clean up or fix things around the house with or without being asked because he takes pride in it.

 

A man that kisses boo boos.

 

A man that hugs and kisses for no reason other than he wants you to feel loved.

 

A man that plans for the future of his family financially and otherwise.

 

A man that works hard to provide all that he can for his family without complaint because he knows he is doing whats right.

 

A man that enjoys helping others...friends, aunts, uncles, cousins, strangers...because it makes him feel good for doing a good deed.

 

A man that wants to teach his children to be a good people by example.

 

I am not delusional. No one is perfect. We all have nasty habits or annoying quirks. But if I had a man like that I could overlook those things or help him work on them if he wanted to. I want someone that wants to work as a team to be better!

 

Hope that was specific enough

[M30USA]

M30USA,

 

Family man to me...

 

A man that wants to spend time with his family including doing things that might not be his cup of tea because his kids or wife might enjoy it.

 

A man that takes care of HIS responsiblities.

 

A man that chooses family over recreation. (I understand everyone needs time away doing things they like with friends. I mean if plans have been made for "family time" to not always choose something that may sound more fun)

 

A man that chooses to take care of his home. Meaning clean up or fix things around the house with or without being asked because he takes pride in it.

 

A man that kisses boo boos.

 

A man that hugs and kisses for no reason other than he wants you to feel loved.

 

A man that plans for the future of his family financially and otherwise.

 

A man that works hard to provide all that he can for his family without complaint because he knows he is doing whats right.

 

A man that enjoys helping others...friends, aunts, uncles, cousins, strangers...because it makes him feel good for doing a good deed.

 

A man that wants to teach his children to be a good people by example.

 

I am not delusional. No one is perfect. We all have nasty habits or annoying quirks. But if I had a man like that I could overlook those things or help him work on them if he wanted to. I want someone that wants to work as a team to be better!

 

Hope that was specific enough

 

That's fine, but what if he has a list for you that's just as long? Are you meeting all his requirements?

 

For example:

 

Never refusing sex

Having meals hot and ready after work

Respecting his family and mother

Never stressing him out with drama

Being a great homemaker

 

Etc etc etc...

 

This list might sound ridiculous and unrealistic to you, but yours might sound just as ridiculous to him. I'm not saying you both can't have these standards for each other, just that a lot of it is subjective.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

No. I have obviously never met his expectations or he would not have left or been running to other women. I realize that I am far from perfect and I should have done things differently concerning his feelings and wants and needs.

 

Yes. If he was willing to take the time to make a list I would have tried my best to meet those requirements and take it seriously.

 

But do you think at this point I should even be worried about saving it? I just feel like me dwelling on what I can do to save the marraige is making me weak and depressed. I feel he is extremly selfish. At this point I should be concerned about the mental health of myself and kids. I think the only way to help us now is moving on without him.

 

I do know that I want a man in my life... but right now I have to repair myself and be the best mommy for my boys. I don't think I need to focus on my husbad or any man right now.

[M30USA]

No. I have obviously never met his expectations or he would not have left or been running to other women. I realize that I am far from perfect and I should have done things differently concerning his feelings and wants and needs.

 

Yes. If he was willing to take the time to make a list I would have tried my best to meet those requirements and take it seriously.

 

But do you think at this point I should even be worried about saving it? I just feel like me dwelling on what I can do to save the marraige is making me weak and depressed. I feel he is extremly selfish. At this point I should be concerned about the mental health of myself and kids. I think the only way to help us now is moving on without him.

 

I do know that I want a man in my life... but right now I have to repair myself and be the best mommy for my boys. I don't think I need to focus on my husbad or any man right now.

 

Do I think your marriage will be saved? Nobody can tell you. If you have one thing going for you it's that, unlike many women, you don't blame your husband for everything and you actually see your own fault in him "going elsewhere".

 

Good luck.

[pteromom]

No. I have obviously never met his expectations or he would not have left or been running to other women.

 

Even if you buy this, it doesn't make it OK for him to cheat. If you weren't meeting his expectations, he should have been communicating with you, negotiating with you, working on it with you. Do NOT blame yourself for his poor choice.

[lovemaynotbeenough]

Even if you buy this, it doesn't make it OK for him to cheat. If you weren't meeting his expectations, he should have been communicating with you, negotiating with you, working on it with you. Do NOT blame yourself for his poor choice.

 

 

Unfortunately I do blame myself for not trying hard enough when he asked me to. He has always suffered with depression. He has abandonment issues. His real father left when he was like 9 and never came back. He has seen him only twice in the last 10 years we have been together. And absolutely no other contact. Its crazy and sad. His real dad was a "serial cheater".

 

I dont really blame myself for his cheating tendencies... I know that is entirely his choice and I could never have changed it...

 

This just really sucks!

 

I am so scared that this new chick in his life will actually be good for him. Im extremely jealous. She is like my polar opposite. The times I have hung out with her we literally have nothing in common. We pretty much disagreed on everything. We had completely different interests. We had completely differnt upbringings and backgrounds. She is a lot like my husband as far as background and interests.

 

He says he really likes her. I believe that. Like I said. I am jealous that he has someone. I think thats why I have continued to sleep with him. I thought it would keep him around or something. Totally ridiculous. I know. But when you are desperate you do dumb things.

 

And I know that there are a lot of people that think I am an idiot for wanting to stay. I think that most of the time too.

 

My friend keeps telling me time will make it better. I guess I am impatient. I want to know whats gonna happen.

 

I am just really sad. I have to keep finding ways to stay busy and leave him alone.

 

He has what he wants. Freedom to go and do what he wants when he wants. This other woman that he enjoys and has so much in common with....

 

I liked the comment about seperation is a time to figure out wether you want to be with the other person or not. I dont know why I wasn't looking at it that way before. I havent been completely separated from him because I keep having sex with him. Thats probably hy I am so confused.

 

Even though I feel like this is the hardest thing I have ever had to do I understand that its really important to stay away from him.

[ver13]

You have a huge amount of good advice from so many great poster. I know that you have a lot to think about in general. This moment of life that you find yourself in will pass if you choose to do what is right for you and your babies. I am not going to sit hear and bash your man it would serve no purpose. You know what he is about and from what you say hear he has no plans on changing his ways. This is his choice which he is entitled too, just as you have a choice on who you want to be the important person in your life. IMO the most important person in your life right now is you and the most crucial relationship is the one between you and the babies. You can ask us all the questions in the world but in the end you have to decide when you have had enough. For your H there will always be someone else unless he has a life changing event that shows him the error of his ways. Even then sometimes in a relationship you can do so much damage that it can never be repaired. So now its up to you to make your choice what is really important to you. He will never respect you which he has shown you on so many different occasions. If you want respect you have to demand it and it starts with you respecting your own body, and deciding that you will not share it with a man that won't show you respect.

[M30USA]

You have a huge amount of good advice from so many great poster. I know that you have a lot to think about in general. This moment of life that you find yourself in will pass if you choose to do what is right for you and your babies. I am not going to sit hear and bash your man it would serve no purpose. You know what he is about and from what you say hear he has no plans on changing his ways. This is his choice which he is entitled too, just as you have a choice on who you want to be the important person in your life. IMO the most important person in your life right now is you and the most crucial relationship is the one between you and the babies. You can ask us all the questions in the world but in the end you have to decide when you have had enough. For your H there will always be someone else unless he has a life changing event that shows him the error of his ways. Even then sometimes in a relationship you can do so much damage that it can never be repaired. So now its up to you to make your choice what is really important to you. He will never respect you which he has shown you on so many different occasions. If you want respect you have to demand it and it starts with you respecting your own body, and deciding that you will not share it with a man that won't show you respect.

 

But you're missing her rare admission, especially from a woman, that she played a role in the failure of her marriage. (I'm not going to be PC. Everybody knows that men are the scapegoats of most marriages while women rarely, if ever, admit any fault. And I'm not even pinning women for this. Our society promotes the idea. TV pounds it into little girls' minds. Divorce court makes it law. Satan, himself, is a proponent of it.)

Edited June 22, 2013 by M30USA