"If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat ON you." Not always true.

[Alone909]

I actually have been lurking on this site for awhile, before putting my toes in the water to post.

 

Something bothers me a lot - the opinion that once someone has an affair, they are inherently a cheater and destined to cheat again. That - if they end up with the AP, that relationship is doomed to be one without trust. I just don't think it applies to everyone.

 

In my case, true, I have had two affairs. Both of them were with the same man. In the 20 years since my first affair with him, I have been completely faithful to my husband. Never took advantage of any opportunity to cheat, in any way.

 

Had I ended up with AP in a genuine relationship, I know I never would have cheated on him. I trust he has never lied to me, and I KNOW I have never lied to him. I hated lying and deceiving my husband, and it played a role in the affair going NC.

 

The totality of my life, laid out bare, shows me to have been a basically decent person who made a terrible, weak-minded choice to engage in an illicit relationship twice, with the same man. I AM susceptible to cheating with him, but not with anyone else.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I actually have been lurking on this site for awhile, before putting my toes in the water to post.

 

Something bothers me a lot - the opinion that once someone has an affair, they are inherently a cheater and destined to cheat again. That - if they end up with the AP, that relationship is doomed to be one without trust. I just don't think it applies to everyone.

 

In my case, true, I have had two affairs. Both of them were with the same man. In the 20 years since my first affair with him, I have been completely faithful to my husband. Never took advantage of any opportunity to cheat, in any way.

 

Had I ended up with AP in a genuine relationship, I know I never would have cheated on him. I trust he has never lied to me, and I KNOW I have never lied to him. I hated lying and deceiving my husband, and it played a role in the affair going NC.

 

The totality of my life, laid out bare, shows me to have been a basically decent person who made a terrible, weak-minded choice to engage in an illicit relationship twice, with the same man. I AM susceptible to cheating with him, but not with anyone else.

 

I have to agree with you. I get tired of everyone assuming "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and that relationships that began as affairs are doomed. While statistics may show their success rate being rather low, for 1) Statistics aren't reliable; people lie, when faced with uncomfortable questions. Honestly, how many people are going to say, "Why yes, my long-time partner DID start as an affair!" and 2) Even if the statistics were reliable? There's still a chance for success. Each situation is different.

 

I'm not saying infidelity is good. It's not. It's probably the most messed up situation I've ever been in, in my entire life. I will say this; we're all human, prone to error, and sometimes, those errors prove to be blessings in disguise.

[Pierre]

I have to agree with you. I get tired of everyone assuming "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and that relationships that began as affairs are doomed. While statistics may show their success rate being rather low, for 1) Statistics aren't reliable; people lie, when faced with uncomfortable questions. Honestly, how many people are going to say, "Why yes, my long-time partner DID start as an affair!" and 2) Even if the statistics were reliable? There's still a chance for success. Each situation is different.

 

I'm not saying infidelity is good. It's not. It's probably the most messed up situation I've ever been in, in my entire life. I will say this; we're all human, prone to error, and sometimes, those errors prove to be blessings in disguise.

 

I agree, not all cheaters become habitual cheaters. Some cheat a couple of times only.

Edited June 21, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Adherence to topic.

[MissBee]

Because someone cheated doesn't mean they will forever cheat.

 

WHY they cheated tells a more reliable story.

 

Many OW/OM of course by default believe their A is about true love, that the affair or cheating was just a one time thing etc. This is not something safe to assume IMO, I think it is wise if your relationship started as an affair or if your MM/MW is a serial cheater or has cheated more than once, that you address this through relationship counseling before proceeding into a full relationship, as chances are, maybe this is not about "a bad fit" or who they love more...but their own deal.

 

I would simply advise anyone who participated in an A to be smart if you move into an open R and address what happened instead of simply transitioning as if the affair was no big deal. If you don't do that due diligence, when you have been forewarned (by the fact of witnessing them in an A yourself), then if it turns up that it's some kind of coping mechanism or chronic problem, then it will just seem like you marched yourself into that trap.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I agree, not all cheaters become habitual cheaters. Some cheat a couple of times only.

 

The real question is: How can you tell a cheater from a non-cheater?

 

That is the question, isn't it? Though I think MissBee put it quite well. Paying careful attention to their actions, habits, etc. and going through counselling is sound advice.

 

Of course, nothing is fool-proof, really.

[Pierre]

That is the question, isn't it? Though I think MissBee put it quite well. Paying careful attention to their actions, habits, etc. and going through counselling is sound advice.

 

Of course, nothing is fool-proof, really.

 

Nevertheless, some people cheat regardless of the state of the marriage.

 

 

Others never cheat regardless of the state of the marriage.

[threelaurels]

I have cheated and been cheated on. I can honestly say that, given the exact same circumstances as before, I would probably cheat again. Other circumstances, probably not.

 

My personal experience has taught me that the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" is true to some degree. Both of the people who cheated on me had histories of cheating before they met me. I chose to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

However, I do not believe that all people who cheat once are bound to become serial cheaters. I know that I will do everything possible in the future to avoid the circumstances that led me to cheat. I have been working on myself to ensure that I have the willpower to resist should I start walking down the same path again. If I am capable of doing that, other people are too.

[Pierre]

I have cheated and been cheated on. I can honestly say that, given the exact same circumstances as before, I would probably cheat again. Other circumstances, probably not.

 

My personal experience has taught me that the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" is true to some degree. Both of the people who cheated on me had histories of cheating before they met me. I chose to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

However, I do not believe that all people who cheat once are bound to become serial cheaters. I know that I will do everything possible in the future to avoid the circumstances that led me to cheat. I have been working on myself to ensure that I have the willpower to resist should I start walking down the same path again. If I am capable of doing that, other people are too.

 

In my research I have discovered that for most non-cheaters cheating is something that is not in their vocabulary. They simply do not cheat, there is no need to resist temptation.

 

Others have to resist temptation.

 

Others cheat as soon as the marriage is not pleasant.

 

Others don't see themselves as cheaters because they rationalize.

 

Others only cheat if marooned in an island with a beautiful person.

 

Others cheat if they drunk and are seduced.

 

However, as I said before for some folks cheating is not in their personality. They are naturally loyal. honest, and trustworthy. And it requires no effort. And no matter how difficult the situation they do not cheat.

[JustAReformedGirl]

In my research I have discovered that for most non-cheaters cheating is something that is not in their vocabulary. They simply do not cheat, there is no need to resist temptation.

 

Others have to resist temptation.

 

Others cheat as soon as the marriage is not pleasant.

 

Others don't see themselves as cheaters because they rationalize.

 

Others only cheat if marooned in an island with a beautiful person.

 

Others cheat if they drunk and are seduced.

 

However, as I said before for some folks cheating is not in their personality. They are naturally loyal. honest, and trustworthy. And it requires no effort. And no matter how difficult the situation they do not cheat.

 

In a sense, since it required no effort on their part, it's not really comparable. For those who resist temptation-I would find that to be a greater victory. I'm not trying to undermine those who truly love one, and only one person, and never wind up tempted, let alone engage in an affair. I'm just saying, most of us aren't that way. I wish I was. But, I'm not. Not right now, anyway. I'm not looking to make infidelity into a habit, here. It's already insane enough, as is.

[2sure]

Ive never believed once a cheater , always a cheater. I do believe it is very often the case, just because thats what I've seen in my real life experience . But people change, I've changed myself, so I know that " always" just doesn't hold true.

 

Unless a cheater has developed other ways to solve their unhappiness, or has decided to not avoid conflict, or changes and becomes empathetic...they continue to cheat. It's what works for them.

[Pierre]

In a sense, since it required no effort on their part, it's not really comparable. For those who resist temptation-I would find that to be a greater victory. I'm not trying to undermine those who truly love one, and only one person, and never wind up tempted, let alone engage in an affair. I'm just saying, most of us aren't that way. I wish I was. But, I'm not. Not right now, anyway. I'm not looking to make infidelity into a habit, here. It's already insane enough, as is.

 

I could cheat in the right setting. No question about that. I am not pretending to be a saint.

 

However, there are people that do not cheat because it is not part of their make up. The kind of marriage they have and the temptations are moot. Some folks are not cheaters.

 

What I see with many single OWs is that they excuse cheating if done for love or because the wife is evil. I disagree with that. To cheat one must be dishonest.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I could cheat in the right setting. No question about that. I am not pretending to be a saint.

 

However, there are people that do not cheat because it is not part of their make up. The kind of marriage they have and the temptations are moot. Some folks are not cheaters.

 

What I see with many single OWs is that they excuse cheating if done for love or because the wife is evil. I disagree with that. To cheat one must be dishonest.

 

Sorry, I hadn't intended to come off like I was attacking you.

 

Though still...being dishonest isn't part of my usual M.O. either.

 

The funny thing is, I spent a lot of time (before it happened) hating everything to do with infidelity. I'm a product of it; my biological father cheated on his wife with my mom. I never wanted to be like that. I held (and still hold) just as much disdain for my mother's part in it, as I do for my bio dad. I suppose because my mom has donned the hat of hypocrisy; if she hears of other people going after married men, it's always different, because she didn't do the pursuing, and she did it when she was younger, etc. Yeah, she rationalizes. I've pointed out to her, time-and-again, that it doesn't matter how old you are, or why; it is what it is.

 

In short...how is it that some of us, so adamant about never going down infidelity lane, or being part of it, still find ourselves there?

 

I regret it, and yet I don't. Gods, I hate emotions. Er, sorry for the mini rant...

[Pierre]

Sorry, I hadn't intended to come off like I was attacking you.

 

Though still...being dishonest isn't part of my usual M.O. either.

 

The funny thing is, I spent a lot of time (before it happened) hating everything to do with infidelity. I'm a product of it; my biological father cheated on his wife with my mom. I never wanted to be like that. I held (and still hold) just as much disdain for my mother's part in it, as I do for my bio dad. I suppose because my mom has donned the hat of hypocrisy; if she hears of other people going after married men, it's always different, because she didn't do the pursuing, and she did it when she was younger, etc. Yeah, she rationalizes. I've pointed out to her, time-and-again, that it doesn't matter how old you are, or why; it is what it is.

 

In short...how is it that some of us, so adamant about never going down infidelity lane, or being part of it, still find ourselves there?

 

I regret it, and yet I don't. Gods, I hate emotions. Er, sorry for the mini rant...

 

Cheating in relationships is something that is done by people that are absolutely honest in all walks of life. Cheating in relationships is a very special situation because love feelings can make 100% honest people act in an irrational manner. I don't look down on romantic cheating, but at the end of the day it causes pain to others. I cheated a lot in my younger days and only excused myself because I did not have actual intercourse.

 

As to why you did it despite hating everything about infidelity:

 

It has to do with MEMES. You lived through infidelity and it became part of you. In other words it is part of your heritage and that is very hard to avoid. However, recognizing it is a HUGE step and there is no loss of honor. At the end of the day most folks can cheat in romance. However, there are a few that don't, no matter what. They probably have non-cheating MEMES.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I actually had to look that up, Pierre. Thank you; it helped me gain further knowledge.

[Steadfast]

I'm not saying infidelity is good. It's not. It's probably the most messed up situation I've ever been in, in my entire life. I will say this; we're all human, prone to error, and sometimes, those errors prove to be blessings in disguise.

 

This is a horrible, misplaced statement that reeks of eventual justification.

 

The only good that comes from cheating are the good decisions and actions of those that survive it. There are no 'blessings' that are not earned, no hard lessons that are not learned. Cheating isn't error, it's choice. Gah.

 

Case in point; when my ex cheated and left, she left me and our two teens to fend for ourselves; emotionally, mentally, and financially. She just dropped it, stayed away and fed her entitlement. In time we lost everything; our home, most of our belongings, all while dealing with the devastation of not only the destruction of our family as we knew and loved it, but the confusion and suffering of wondering what we did to deserve it.

 

Starting from the bottom up, I began to rebuild. Scrimping and working to keep the kids fed. Thanks to our very loving and generous family and friends, we found a new home, worked towards getting the kids jobs and in collage while saving and paying off debt. Months turned into years, but it slowly came together. We had a better home and a better life -all without one dime from my ex. She was busy jumping from man to man, borrowing (even from the kids! The nerve!) and climbing the social ladder. I met a wonderful woman. The joy returned to birthdays and holidays.

 

Showing her mom her new car, my ex gushed; "See! I told you everything would work out!" My daughter was stunned; dumbfounded. But, I would not encourage the hating of their mother. It was bad for them. With the typical cheater mindset she demanded that respect. "I'm their mother!"

 

Your statement is a slap in the face to every betrayed person forced to swallow and survive a devastation they had no part in choosing.

 

However, as I said before for some folks cheating is not in their personality. They are naturally loyal. honest, and trustworthy. And it requires no effort. And no matter how difficult the situation they do not cheat.

 

Keep researching Pierre, 'cause your facts are full of holes. People assuming 'no effort' is needed for some to remain faithful is like saying a bodybuilder was born with all those muscles. The weak despise the strong.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Steadfast

[JustAReformedGirl]

This is a horrible, misplaced statement that reeks of eventual justification.

 

You took what I said out of context. I'm not justifying what I've done, personally. I am saying that it provided a wake-up call. It forced me to open my eyes to the issues not just in my marriage, but the ones I personally carry. I don't blame my husband for what I decided to do; I don't blame him for my unhappiness. "The blessing in disguise" reference I made was not to justify my actions, but to point out that through an immoral action, I developed a better understanding of myself, and my situation.

 

The only good that comes from cheating are the good decisions and actions of

those that survive it. There are no 'blessings' that are not earned, no hard

lessons that are not learned. Cheating isn't error, it's choice.

Gah.

 

I think it falls under both titles. It is an erroneous choice, and therefore, still an error. And at no point did I even attempt to suggest there were no hardships involved, no difficult lessons, no pain. I'd have to be a complete idiot, not to acknowledge that. Again, you took what I said completely out of context. Spend some time checking my other posts, instead of making your assumptions based on one, vague statement I made.

 

Case in point; when my ex cheated and left, she left me and our two teens to

fend for ourselves; emotionally, mentally, and financially. She just dropped it,

stayed away and fed her entitlement. In time we lost everything; our home, most

of our belongings, all while dealing with the devastation of not only the

destruction of our family as we knew and loved it, but the confusion and

suffering of wondering what we did to deserve it.

 

I am truly, truly sorry for you. She was beyond selfish, and if she needed to leave, she shouldn't have outright abandoned her children like that. Again, I'm not condoning her affair, but if she needed to leave, it's better than both of you staying together, and things get progressively worse. Leaving you with the entire mess, and to try and provide for your kids alone, is unforgivable. Not all of us "cheaters" operate the same way your ex did. Please, try to remember that. Each situation is different.

 

Starting from the bottom up, I began to rebuild. Scrimping and working to keep

the kids fed. Thanks to our very loving and generous family and friends, we

found a new home, worked towards getting the kids jobs and in collage while

saving and paying off debt. Months turned into years, but it slowly came

together. We had a better home and a better life -all without one dime from my

ex. She was busy jumping from man to man, borrowing (even from the kids! The

nerve!) and climbing the social ladder. I met a wonderful woman. The joy

returned to birthdays and holidays.

 

Again, your ex was beyond selfish, and unfit to call herself a mother. I'm glad you found someone else.

 

Showing her mom her new car, my ex gushed; "See! I told you everything

would work out!" My daughter was stunned; dumbfounded. But, I would not

encourage the hating of their mother. It was bad for them. With the

typical cheater mindset she demanded that respect. "I'm their mother!"

 

Typical cheater mindset? I get that you're a BS, but I never want, in a million years, to be compared to your ex. I would never pull something that ugly. I'd never hit that low. It is my goal to help my husband through his current debt issues, and if and when I feel the need to leave, to make it as easy for him as possible, emotionally. :/ Of course, I can't eradicate all of the devastation he'll feel, if I leave...but I can't just stay to make him happy, either. Please again, stop generalizing. We're not all the same. Your ex doesn't deserve to call herself their mother. She may have given birth, but the moment she put herself above her children-without even putting a cent toward them-she forfeited that title. I would never do that to my child. Ever.

 

Your statement is a slap in the face to every betrayed person forced to swallow

and survive a devastation they had no part in choosing.

 

It was not intended as a slap in the face. And while you took what I said out of context, I do apologize. I can see why you saw it the way you did.

[Pierre]

Keep researching Pierre, 'cause your facts are full of holes. People assuming 'no effort' is needed for some to remain faithful is like saying a bodybuilder was born with all those muscles. The weak despise the strong.

 

The analogy is weak.

 

In any event, it seems you have never a truly honest person. Honest behavior is effortless for these folks.

[Steadfast]

The analogy is weak.

 

In any event, it seems you have never a truly honest person. Honest behavior is effortless for these folks.

 

The analogy fits. Your argument is weak.

 

I never cheated Pierre and it wasn't difficult to resist. This however, had nothing to do with my genetic makeup, DNA, or when I was born. Those who practice faithfulness (like anything) find the practice easier when practice is applied. Like anything, effort is involved. We follow our true desires. We are not helpless against anything. It's choice. Your argument says otherwise it's flawed, in my opinion. Helplessness is the ultimate, infallible excuse. Our prisons are filled with people who once believed this.

 

Saddest of all, this belief means change isn't possible. I can't support that.

[Steadfast]

Please again, stop generalizing.

 

I will if you will.

 

I smile when I read "Every situation is different" but the hard, cold facts prove the same pattern of rejection using entitlement as motivation / justification. You're statement is far more of a generalization - and proof is found not only on this forum, but the people we all meet face to face. Go ahead; read up. Eerily similar are the feelings of devastation, anguish, grief and rejection from those who suffer betrayal. You saying you'll dump your husband 'nicely' bears little on the situation. You have a choice and are free to make it, but your reasons good are bad, are not unique in any way.

 

I don't know you, so I can't compare. Yet, betrayers love grading on the curve. My comment was directed at your very common statement. Many surf these forums for answers, and I wanted that viewpoint included.

[seren]

I don't think it is written in stone that cheaters always cheat again, but, I do think that unless they take a long hard look at what it was about them that enabled them to lie, deceive and do something that was almost guaranteed to that hurt another, then they are more than likely to repeat that behaviour.

 

It isn't just the fact that someone has had a PA or EA, it is the day to day lies, the saying one thing and doing another that really causes the greatest heartbreak. All WS should know that, if they don't they are living under a rock. To not address how they can tell themselves it is OK or that they don't tell to prevent the BS hurting is denial with a capital D.

 

To reconcile took a lot of introspection by my H, without it we might not have made it. Actions not words, each and every time are what matters, a person can never, ever take their situation for granted. Some may cheat and some may not, without a person looking at their actions and how they deal with conflict, I would say the chances of cheating gain are pretty high.

 

I would also add that at some point in time all or nearly all marriages began with hearts, rainbows, love, like and dreams that they would be the couple that would live in fairyland forever, time and time again I read - it will never happen to us, we are soulmates, we talk, we understand each other. Well, welcome to my world prior to the A, and that lasted for 22 years. No one knows what is around the corner. I wouldn't wish infidelity on my worse enemy. No one is immune, but if I were beginning a relationship with a known cheater, I would be extra careful to look for how they cope with things.

[Pierre]

The analogy fits. Your argument is weak.

 

I never cheated Pierre and it wasn't difficult to resist. This however, had nothing to do with my genetic makeup, DNA, or when I was born. Those who practice faithfulness (like anything) find the practice easier when practice is applied. Like anything, effort is involved. We follow our true desires. We are not helpless against anything. It's choice. Your argument says otherwise it's flawed, in my opinion. Helplessness is the ultimate, infallible excuse. Our prisons are filled with people who once believed this.

 

Saddest of all, this belief means change isn't possible. I can't support that.

 

I do agre that for most it requires some sort of discipline. However, there are people that are honest with no effort. Just like some people never had the desire to have alcohol. OTOH, for an alcoholic abstention is a huge amount of work.

 

Your post is full of strawmen to make your point a bit stronger, but in reality you did not need the strawmen. I agree with many of your points.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I will if you will.

 

When did I generalize? This is an honest question. I fail to recall it.

 

I smile when I read "Every situation is different" but the hard, cold facts

prove the same pattern of rejection using entitlement as motivation /

justification.

 

Funny, I haven't done that at all. At no point have I tried to justify what I've done, nor do I think I had the right to, or that it in anyway was my husband's fault. Again, who's generalizing, here?

 

 

You're statement is far more of a generalization - and proof is found not

only on this forum, but the people we all meet face to face.

 

Please clarify. Which statement are you calling me out on, at this point?

 

 

Go ahead; read up. Eerily similar are the feelings of devastation, anguish,

grief and rejection from those who suffer betrayal. You saying you'll dump your

husband 'nicely' bears little on the situation. You have a choice and are free

to make it, but your reasons good are bad, are not unique in any way.

 

And while I am well aware that there are other people going through much the same situation as me, it doesn't mean they're identical. Because the people involved are not carbon copies of one another. That is the point I was making. No matter how similar, the situation is still different. But since you and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum, I have little reason to believe you will possibly concede that my point has merit. I am well aware that your points hold water as well; I'm simply pointing out that perhaps your pain with your experiences have enabled you to wear blinders to "the other side".

 

Also, my husband is well aware of this; the infidelity is the only thing he doesn't know. He knows everything else. I'm well aware there is nothing that I can do to change the devastation it will cause. What would you have me do, honestly? At this point, he's better off without me, even if he doesn't realize it.

 

I don't know you, so I can't compare. Yet, betrayers love grading on the curve. My comment was directed at your very common statement. Many surf these forums for answers, and I wanted that viewpoint included.

 

That's the point of these forums, so no, that hadn't escaped me. I'm unclear on what you mean. "Betrayers love grading on the curve"?

 

Again, I am sorry for your situation. But honestly, can we not just agree to disagree? This argument will get us nowhere. At the end of it, you'll still see me as a villain, and I'll just become increasingly frustrated, while maintaining guilt for your situation. It goes nowhere.

[canuckprincess]

I actually have been lurking on this site for awhile, before putting my toes in the water to post.

 

Something bothers me a lot - the opinion that once someone has an affair, they are inherently a cheater and destined to cheat again. That - if they end up with the AP, that relationship is doomed to be one without trust. I just don't think it applies to everyone.

 

In my case, true, I have had two affairs. Both of them were with the same man. In the 20 years since my first affair with him, I have been completely faithful to my husband. Never took advantage of any opportunity to cheat, in any way.

 

Had I ended up with AP in a genuine relationship, I know I never would have cheated on him. I trust he has never lied to me, and I KNOW I have never lied to him. I hated lying and deceiving my husband, and it played a role in the affair going NC.

 

The totality of my life, laid out bare, shows me to have been a basically decent person who made a terrible, weak-minded choice to engage in an illicit relationship twice, with the same man. I AM susceptible to cheating with him, but not with anyone else.

 

 

Mm and I have had the conversation about if he'd cheat with me he'd cheat on me. Well I can I have no fear of that happening, unlike a bs I know the signs to look for and he knows that. When we first got together I was married too and I was a cheater so it's a safe bet that he's more worried about me cheating then me worried about him cheating. Besides I rock his world!!!!

[Sarabi]

Mm and I have had the conversation about if he'd cheat with me he'd cheat on me. Well I can I have no fear of that happening, unlike a bs I know the signs to look for and he knows that. When we first got together I was married too and I was a cheater so it's a safe bet that he's more worried about me cheating then me worried about him cheating. Besides I rock his world!!!!

 

Yeah I think he would be more worried about you cheating not because you would but because isn't that part of a man's ego? When they have a woman, even if they cheat themselves, they view you as "theirs"...& don't want anyone else to have you...

At least that is what I have read.

[HopingAgain]

Mm and I have had the conversation about if he'd cheat with me he'd cheat on me. Well I can I have no fear of that happening, unlike a bs I know the signs to look for and he knows that. When we first got together I was married too and I was a cheater so it's a safe bet that he's more worried about me cheating then me worried about him cheating. Besides I rock his world!!!!

 

Unfortunately in your situation, you are at even more risk of the infidelity repeating itself. The fact that you.know the signs doesn't matter, people who want to cheat find a way to lie convincingly enough not to rock the boat.