Retroactive Jealousy - Need some wisdom

[Abnormal]

I have been suffering with this problem for roughly two years. I thought I had beaten it several times but each time it seemed to come back some months/weeks later. Talking about it with my girlfriend occasionally provided short-term relief, but in the long run most of the things that were said only fed my discouragement. There is no-one else in my life I feel that I can talk to about it, as it's a very private problem.

 

I have read virtually everything there is to read about it online, and I mean hundreds of hours of time spent doing so. This also does not help, aside from feeding the obsession, it also reveals that 99% of people (or at least those who post online) do not ever truly come to terms with this. Most admit that while it does fade with time, they still live with a sort of background-noise of misery over it, which is not encouraging to those of us in the (relatively) early stages. Even those I have read about who have more or less "overcome" the problem, admit that they occasionally have to trick themselves out of relapsing back into it. So basically that's the best one can hope for, which is extremely discouraging to those of us afflicted with this and desperately searching for some hope that it can be resolved.

 

A select few chose to stay and are ecstatic with their decision. A select few chose to leave and are ecstatic with their decision. It seems the most common story though, is choosing to stay and continuing to be miserable, or living in a state of perpetually trying not to be miserable, which is just a massively depressing thought. However, I have read far less experiences from those who chose to break up over it.

 

I need to know what the experience was like for those who have already chosen to break up over this. Especially if it came back again in future relationships, and how they feel about it now.

 

I truly, truly do not want to break up over this. I recognize who I've found, and that this is quite likely to be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. But I also have virtually no experience; I have no ground to stand on when it comes to relationships, no reference points to make such a solid, life-long decision. I just want some light shed on the alternatives. I want to gain some of this experience vicariously. I want to build a solid foundation, something that backs my mind into a corner until I have no choice but to make a decision. Every option at this point seems to carry the terrible risk of losing the most important and loving relationships I've ever had.

 

 

To those who are in the beginning (severely crippling) stages of this issue, take at least some solace in the fact that it really does fade to a point where you can be productive and get on with your life again. It doesn't seem so at the time, but it's even possible to be happy again, or at least content, for extended periods of time. I am also incessantly optimistic and I believe that an issue like this can be overcome, and not just maintaining a perpetual state of avoiding misery, but a permanent fix. In other words, to eventually trigger the "normal" response, which is to feel what we feel once and for a short amount of time, then never again.

[ScreamingTrees]

Still a bit confused after hearing this term pop up... What exactly is the jealousy stemming from? Just curious. You're rather vague in this post.

[KungFuJoe]

Here are some things to help.

 

For starters...STOP talking about it. Just stop. It does feel like it helps momentarily, but it also makes it "stay in the present" which is not good.

 

Think of RJ as a form of post traumatic stress syndrome. I know that sounds "bad" but it's a good way to approach it. Just like someone who has been traumatized...you'll never fully forget it. That's impossible. So don't tell yourself to stop thinking...that will just make you think MORE. You have to find a way to make "peace" with it. Make it "unimportant". Focus on positives rather than negatives. Understand that, if not for your partner's past, he/she wouldn't be who she is nor would he/she probably be with you.

 

There is a therapeutic process called CBT (cognitive behavior treatment) that has been shown to help with this. I haven't tried it because I was able to deal with it on my own, but if you are still struggling bad, I would recommend you look into it.

[KungFuJoe]

To answer one of your questions...breaking up will solve nothing. You'll just get RJ with the next girl...and then the next...and then the next.

 

I have a theory that people with bad RJ grew up in abusive households (most like abusive or distant mother) and also have some form of Purely Obsessional OCD. Do you have any OCD like tendencies? Do you hyper focus on something or find yourself repeating certain actions?

 

I hyper focus a lot and I also wash my hands quite often (though I don't wash my hands if they are completely clean or anything like that).

 

It does kind of help when you realize that you feel the way you do...NOT because of your partner...but because of how you are "built". Realizing this helps take away the "blame" you place on your partner. I know there are times when you get angry and just think, "Damn if only he/she wasn't like that in the past then I wouldn't have to go through this!!!!". THAT is the absolutely wrong way to think.

[therhythm]

To answer one of your questions...breaking up will solve nothing. You'll just get RJ with the next girl...and then the next...and then the next.

 

I have a theory that people with bad RJ grew up in abusive households (most like abusive or distant mother) and also have some form of Purely Obsessional OCD. Do you have any OCD like tendencies? Do you hyper focus on something or find yourself repeating certain actions?

 

I hyper focus a lot and I also wash my hands quite often (though I don't wash my hands if they are completely clean or anything like that).

 

It does kind of help when you realize that you feel the way you do...NOT because of your partner...but because of how you are "built". Realizing this helps take away the "blame" you place on your partner. I know there are times when you get angry and just think, "Damn if only he/she wasn't like that in the past then I wouldn't have to go through this!!!!". THAT is the absolutely wrong way to think.

 

I think ^this^ sums it pretty good... the only way you can really go over this is by realizing is not her problem but your problem... she is with you and she is the same person that she was before she shared the information about her sexual past with you...

[Abnormal]

Still a bit confused after hearing this term pop up... What exactly is the jealousy stemming from? Just curious. You're rather vague in this post.

 

Sorry, I will go into a bit more detail later.

 

To answer one of your questions...breaking up will solve nothing. You'll just get RJ with the next girl...and then the next...and then the next.

 

Just curious, is this from personal experience?

 

I have a theory that people with bad RJ grew up in abusive households (most like abusive or distant mother) and also have some form of Purely Obsessional OCD. Do you have any OCD like tendencies? Do you hyper focus on something or find yourself repeating certain actions?

 

I had a fairly inconsequential childhood. Granted, my parents screwed me up, but all parents screw up their kids, no matter how good their intentions. Realistically I could find a way to trace anything back to my parents and blame them for it, but it makes more sense to me to just take responsibility for my behaviour. My greatest source of pride when I was younger was that I consciously shaped my beliefs every step of the way, with little outside influence. Coincidentally, that very same pride is now under attack, as it seems that overcoming an issue like this is going to involve "shedding" parts of myself that I was (am?) extremely proud of.

 

Obsession is a very strong trait of mine. I still consider it to be (mostly) one of my virtues, as it's entirely responsible for my strong academic standing, my work ethic, my creative efforts, basically everything I ever did, and did well. Unfortunately I've discovered that in the strange world of relationships a strength can quickly become an equally powerful weakness.

 

I actually developed full-blown "check the stove 5 times" OCD for a very brief period a few years ago. I recognized what was happening and stamped it out pretty quickly. It's possible I still have the "pure O" part of it, but realistically obsession is a pretty integral part of who I am, so it's not like it could really sneak up on me.

 

I know there are times when you get angry and just think, "Damn if only he/she wasn't like that in the past then I wouldn't have to go through this!!!!". THAT is the absolutely wrong way to think.

 

I think this in particular really demonstrates how much this experience sucks. Any rational person knows, "If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't be suffering with this" is, of course, true! It's objective, it's pure fact, there's no arguing with it. But, obviously, it's also absolutely the wrong way to think if you want to have any hope of feeling good. It's practically Orwellian. To know it's objectively true, but to know that you're not allowed to know that it's objectively true because that just causes you suffering.

 

Honestly I'd rather just bluntly accept the feeling of being wronged, and live with it, than try to precariously balance my emotional state on a contradiction. The first may cause that background noise of hurt, the one you can live with and which over time seems to slowly get weaker. But it's nothing compared to the second form, when it periodically collapses in on you and throws you into a living hell for a few days. But then maybe I have the two backwards, which is a scary thought.

[Abnormal]

Most guys want to be the ones who stripped off the plastic wrap from their brand new, untouched girlfriends - and it's just not realistic.

 

Appreciate the sentiment, but even with my admittedly naive level of experience in relationships, I did not have expectations of a plastic-wrapped virgin with my name stenciled on. I'm not religious, and that territory seems to belong almost solely to the religious. I have no issues with previous relationships. I'd have probably been able to look past a one-night stand or two as well (oh look at me I'm so progressive). Basically I could have reasoned well with anything that could legitimately qualify as a "mistake". It's entirely circumstantial. In my specific case it's struggling with the point where a "mistake" stops becoming a mistake and starts becoming what I have trouble believing is anything but a malicious attitude towards oneself, or at least an unbelievable lack of self-control. It did not help my situation that I have always been superhumanly good at self-control, and that is not a joke. After this experience I see it as practically a character flaw, because now it makes me feel, well, abnormal.

[Mint Sauce]

It sounds to me as if your rational constructions, i.e. the way you "shaped" your "progressive" beliefs, do not line up with your much more fundamental emotional construction. Your entire discourse is riddled with indications that your heart is not feeling what your head is telling it to feel.

 

Even if you don't need to unpack your gf from the plastic wrapping, it's ok to disagree with your current girl's level of self-control.

 

I think you might find great comfort in a relationship with a girl who has a more restrained (sexual) track record.

 

Or you can try to let yourself loose a bit more, gain some confidence along the way, and experience (rather than reason) that your gf's past is not that big a deal really.

[therhythm]

What is that self control that people speak here so loudly? Why has someone to control his/her self and not have sex while he/she is not in a relationship?

Lacking self control entitles that you want to have control over something and you couldn't have that control... I don't think your girlfriend wanted to control anything... she just enjoyed being single and having pleasure and building experience... non of them are bad...

Did you miss out? you have the feeling that she is much more experienced than you? It is not her problem but yours!!

Do you realize how shallow and stupid is to judge someone by the number of people they have slept with in their past?

People like to have sex and they do have it all the time so get over it or become a monk...

Having a ONS by the way is not a mistake either is a decision and if she was willing and the people who were with her were willing too...what is the problem?

 

Do you have inferiority issues? Do you compare yourself with all the guys she has slept with? Well if you do so then be happy, she has chosen t be in a relationship with you and not with them ... I think that is a great compliment But if you keep with your jealousy you will blow that out...

Edited June 24, 2013 by therhythm

[Abnormal]

It sounds to me as if your rational constructions, i.e. the way you "shaped" your "progressive" beliefs, do not line up with your much more fundamental emotional construction. Your entire discourse is riddled with indications that your heart is not feeling what your head is telling it to feel.

 

Even if you don't need to unpack your gf from the plastic wrapping, it's ok to disagree with your current girl's level of self-control.

 

I think you might find great comfort in a relationship with a girl who has a more restrained (sexual) track record.

 

Or you can try to let yourself loose a bit more, gain some confidence along the way, and experience (rather than reason) that your gf's past is not that big a deal really.

 

The "progressive" part was sarcasm, intended to be mentally substituted with "uptight"

 

Yes, there is an upset of deeply-rooted emotions behind all of this. I dug myself into a hole by waiting so long. At the time I believed that I was doing the right thing. I actually thought that my attitude was far more common than the hookup culture attitude, and that my odds in the end of finding someone who shares my ideals and actually stuck to them would be much better than the reality has turned out to be. I was completely oblivious to how pervasive and widely accepted casual sex is.

 

I would think it pretty rare to find another human being who made it to their mid-twenties without collecting at least one sexual experience that would bother me at least as much as I am bothered in my current relationship. And assuming just that standard is met, there are still basic considerations like compatibility, attraction, etc, etc. Not to mention a lot of people just lie about these things from the start.

 

In any case, it's not worth the risk, especially considering what I'd be giving up. I think throwing away what I have over something as petty as this issue... I'd rather fight the issue.

 

I never made any mistakes along the way, except that in doing so it turns out I've made pretty much the ultimate mistake along the way.

 

This stuff should really be documented and issued to teenagers with the other sex pamphlets. There are potential long term repercussions to not screwing around while young.

[Mint Sauce]

so in summary: you'd rather compromise on your core values because you're scared to remain alone?

 

Although casual sex is now very main stream, I'm sure there are plenty of women in their mid twenties who have only had sex with a few select partners in long-term relationships, because that is the way they were raised.

 

If you really manage to change your beliefs, so as to accommodate for your gf's past, I'm afraid you'll also arrive at a point where you want to sample many different women before settling down.

 

I don't want to be harsh, I recognize your frustration: I was raised rather conservatively (no free sex, no drugs, no binge drinking), and I've often felt "abnormal" among peers, but in the end I've found partners with similar values. Perhaps the smaller pool meant compromises in other area's, but these were easier than compromising on sexual attitude.

[KungFuJoe]

I have EXTENSIVE personal experience with RJ, having experienced some form of it with every LTR (3 total).

 

It's almost shocking how similar those of us that have it share in the same "experiences". For instance, how much of this applies to you?

 

- The "casual" stuff bothers you more than the boyfriends and serious relationships of your partner.

- You can't help but interrogate her to find out more details.

- The more you love and feel for someone, the worse it gets.

 

The reason why I brought up OCD and your relationship with your parents (especially mother) is because I believe EVERYONE has some form of RJ (look up paternity certainty) rooted in their DNA...but MOST people can just shrug it off and don't obsess about it. Those of us that DO obsess over it and let it take over our lives do so because we have the "perfect storm" of upbringing + personal traits that allow it to happen:

 

- "Abnormal" relationship with mother/father making you unable to relate to women correctly. By abnormal, I mean you were either neglected/abused or babied/pampered by your mother and perhaps your father was non existant.

- OCD tendencies in personality causing you to ruminate and obsess (playing "movies" in your head).

- Low self esteem making you feel like you don't match up to someone in your partner's past. (You might think this last part doesn't apply to you, but it's my opinion that low self esteem/self confidence is a driving factor of RJ...from introspection and accounts that I've read)

[giblesp]

Abnormal, I'm going through the same issues myself and really want to solve it. though breaking up has entered my mind from time to time, I never would as I love the girl too much, as she loves me. In the here and now, she's the best partner. If that's also the case for you, then I urge you not to break up over this.

 

You're doing the right thing by solving it yourself instead of moaning to her about it. I feel that the issue is with me and not her. Maybe its the same for you.

 

One thing I know in my head rationally, is that men and women are very similar. We eat, drink and have sex. It's not a big deal. But the way I feel inside about it is different from what I know to be true.

 

I'm considering purchasing this book from this site Overcoming Retroactive Jealousy | Get over your partner's past. Be a better lover. Take the power back.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2013 by giblesp

[KungFuJoe]

To elaborate a little further...retroactive jealousy has its roots in two types of personality complexes:

 

Paternity Certainty and Madonna/Whore Complex.

 

EVERYONE has some form of Paternity Certainty instilled in them. It's from the caveman days where men couldn't be 100% certain that their offspring were actually theirs (something women never had to worry about) so women with less sexual partners (or, preferably none at all) were more desired to reduce the chances that a man ended up raising someone else's kin. Women have a form of this as well, but I'll save that for another discussion.

 

The Madonna/Whore Complex is where the relationship with the parents (ESPECIALLY the mother) comes into play. Men who were raised with distant/abusive or overly doting mothers, grow up with a "warped" sense of what a woman should be. Basically, you end up "latching" onto or becoming overly obsessed with your gfs, wives, etc. You don't see them as "women" but as "mother figures". And because the thought of your mother having sex with strange men (not your father) would sicken you, you also feel similar at the thought of your gf/wife having had sex with men before you.

 

Some men have the Madonna/Whore Complex REALLY bad where they can't even have sex with their own gfs/wives because they view them as strictly "Madonnas"...pure and untouched...and all other women are the "whores". Strangely, men with RJ don't have this "form" of the MW Complex...I haven't heard of any man who no longer wants to have sex with their partner due to RJ...in fact, a lot of the times, it's the opposite...you want to have MORE sex with them (probably to try to "out****" the past out of them or something like that).

 

Anyways...like I said before...those of us that have it bad were just dealt a particularly bad hand in life. Just like people with depression or anxiety, etc. Just something you have to learn to deal with and live with. But, just like depression clouds your vision of reality, so does RJ. And understanding that the problem is YOU and not THEM, helps a lot.

 

Although I don't think you can ever be completely "cured"...meaning you won't ever just stop thinking about the past...you can make your peace with it. Meaning, you'll still think about the past (through triggers or whatnot) but it won't affect you the same way.

[Abnormal]

so in summary: you'd rather compromise on your core values because you're scared to remain alone?

 

I spent the majority of my life alone, intentionally. I actually had a lot of fun living that way and was quite a happy person. The worst time periods of my life were those spent in relationships. They stifled my freedom and I did not feel like I could just be myself. In the early stages of all this, I was actually worried that I might regret not leaving because I'm generally happier alone.

 

Unfortunately, this happiness alone led me to become ruthlessly picky about who I would be willing to spend my life with, if by some miracle I ever found a person who I felt that strongly about. As much as I did not expect it, I found this person. And shortly after realizing who they were to me, I also found out what they had done.

 

It was like being shown a brief glimpse of true happiness, and then being thrown in hell immediately afterwards. It sounds stupid when you don't have this issue, it even sounds stupid when you do have this issue, but it becomes our reality after that point. You don't feel terrible all the time, but you do have this incessant worry that at any point you might be triggered into feeling that way again. You are burdened with the knowledge that one of your deepest fears in life came true, and will always be true. And that only a minor amount of time or a single choice on behalf of your partner could have prevented it. At it's worst, I would not wish this feeling on anyone.

 

If I were to leave, I'd basically be looking for her again, just minus that one flaw. Which is futile, why not just stay with her and find ways to make peace with the flaw, no matter how massive it might seem?

 

I feel I should reiterate that a lot of people either outright lie or at least withhold some of the more sensitive information about their sexual history until they feel good and comfortable revealing it. Imagine I give up on this, find someone else, compromise in other areas, and then 5-10 years later discover (potentially by accident) I'm not only right back where I am now, but compromised myself and my ideals even further to get there! It has less to do with fear of being alone than fear of making the same mistake twice and compounding it in the process.

 

In fact, after this experience, I'm not even sure I could deeply believe someone if they said there was nothing like this in their past. I'd be willing to bet my current obsession would be replaced with an obsession that they're lying to me about it, simply because it's so common and I would have no way of truly knowing.

 

Basically, I do recognize that although her behaviour may have been what triggered this, the problem is with me and unless I deal with it, it always will be with me no matter where I try to run. I started this thread searching for reinforcement that I'm not making a mistake in that line of thought. Especially from those who made exactly that choice and moved on to different relationships. Because with this condition, literally every move you could make feels like a potential lifelong mistake.

 

 

But yes, If I were to go back to my old ways now, I do fear that this has tainted my ability to experience quite the same happiness while living alone. I have equal if not stronger doubts that I'll ever be able to find someone like her again. Even with the occasional torment involved, I know that in the long run I am happier in this relationship than I ever was in either of my previous two.

 

If you really manage to change your beliefs, so as to accommodate for your gf's past, I'm afraid you'll also arrive at a point where you want to sample many different women before settling down.

 

I willingly turned down most of my opportunities, because I knew I only wanted one person in life, and they were not that person. The two relationships I did experience both ended quickly for the same reason. The normal growth and experience most people go through in finding that one person (assuming monogamy was their goal to begin with) is something I seem to have built-in. Apparently my version of growth and experience is not going to be about the struggle of getting to that state. It looks like it's going to be about how to deal with my partner's process of getting to that state.

[drifter777]

With regard to her history, what are we talking about? Was she a hooker? Stripper? Did she have a lot of group sex? Three-somes? Did she hit the sack with random guys routinely - as in hundreds of times?

 

There are levels of "acceptable" to a person's past. Example: if she was a hooker for a year or two most people would completely understand that you are having issues accepting her past. So, what is it in her history that is making you crazy?