A lot of guys feel worthless to women nowadays.

[MomsSpaghetti]

It makes sense why.

 

Gender Equality.

 

As a libertarian, I believe in equal opportunity for the individual. I have no problem with how society structures itself as a result. However, I can't help feeling worthless when I've mingled with women at my university who were on track to be more successful than me. Even the hot ones at my university went on to medical school or working at some prestigious consulting firm. The expectation is still there for us men to blow women off their feet with our ambition and success. That's one less category where I can have confidence in myself.

 

The Sexual Revolution.

 

The hookup culture was created as a result. People sleep around and talk openly about sex these days. Again, I'm not making a value statement here; just saying the way it is. As a 24-yr-old virgin male, it's intimidating knowing that, if I ever got into a relationship, my sexual performance would be compared to a lot of other guys the woman has slept with. It's true that this goes both ways -- guys compare the women they've had sex with -- but I think it's worse for men. I overhear women talk about how a guy was a bad kisser or had a small dick, and I'm insecure about the fact that I might be that guy if I ever get into a sexual relationship.

 

Genetic Worth.

 

With the theory of evolution now being accepted, and with an understanding of genes and evolutionary psychology, it seems like a lot guys including myself feel they're worthless. I'm only 5'7", meaning that few women would want to get impregnated by me and my sperm wouldn't be accepted at most sperm banks for that reason. I'm not that handsome either. Even if a woman likes me as person and gets married to me, if her child-rearing instinct kicks in then I know she would consider me a second-rate individual and secretly wish that she could get ****ed by the tall, handsome guy in town, who has produced a bunch of good-looking babies for the various women he has knocked up.

[Taramere]

It makes sense why.

 

Gender Equality.

 

As a libertarian, I believe in equal opportunity for the individual. I have no problem with how society structures itself as a result. However, I can't help feeling worthless when I've mingled with women at my university who were on track to be more successful than me. Even the hot ones at my university went on to medical school or working at some prestigious consulting firm. The expectation is still there for us men to blow women off their feet with our ambition and success. That's one less category where I can have confidence in myself.

 

Intellectually, there's a lot to recommend libertarianism...but there are a few things about how support for that ideology seems to play out for some people, and your post touches on what I believe to be some of the reasons. It seems to be a popular ideology with young men from a fairly middle class background who are governed by quite a lot of (other people's) expectations. Libertarianism piles on quite a few expectations itself...or the way it seems to get defined does.

 

There's this sense of the libertarian being successful, self reliant, supporter of what can often be a pretty ruthlessly playing out free market system. There's not much scope for showing any of the weakness, self doubt or dependency that is often part of being a human being. When intelligent and self aware people consider the world through a particular ideology, at some point in the interests of balance and honesty they're going to look at themselves through that same ideology.

 

With the one you've selected for yourself, if you're an honest person then you'll probably find yourself wanting. Not because you're in any way inferior to the next guy (I realise you aren't happy with your height, but there are plenty of guys out there of your height who are happy, successful and doing just fine with women). It's just that you have selected an ideology which demands a lot of you and may leave you often feeling "I'm not good enough".

 

It's your selected way of looking at the world, and you're entitled to it - but I think you'll have to manage looking at the world and yourself in the often quite brutal way that an ideology requires (of its more honest and self aware proponents) without falling to pieces in the process.

 

 

Even if a woman likes me as person and gets married to me, if her child-rearing instinct kicks in then I know she would consider me a second-rate individual and secretly wish that she could get ****ed by the tall, handsome guy in town, who has produced a bunch of good-looking babies for the various women he has knocked up.

 

Consider that the vast majority of people don't conform to the gorgeous supermodel/film star look. A lot of people who have quite a shallow approach to the opposite sex when they're young (must be good looking, of x height and weight etc etc) begin to adjust their priorities. That doesn't help you when you're a young guy at university who doesn't feel that other people think he measures up.

 

I wouldn't call myself a great stunner, but I had some extremely pretty friends in my university years. While they might on some superficial level get crushes on the best looking guys, these often weren't the ones they really fell head over heels for. Many, many women out there have fallen hopelessly in love with men who were short, fat, bald, a bit wonky faced or whatever else. But first you're going to have to start projecting a bit more happiness, confidence and self assurance. That's the tricky bit, I know.

[TheGuard13]

It makes sense why.

 

Gender Equality.

 

As a libertarian, I believe in equal opportunity for the individual. I have no problem with how society structures itself as a result. However, I can't help feeling worthless when I've mingled with women at my university who were on track to be more successful than me. Even the hot ones at my university went on to medical school or working at some prestigious consulting firm. The expectation is still there for us men to blow women off their feet with our ambition and success. That's one less category where I can have confidence in myself.

 

So get with someone who doesn't value such things as much. They're out there.

 

The Sexual Revolution.

 

The hookup culture was created as a result. People sleep around and talk openly about sex these days. Again, I'm not making a value statement here; just saying the way it is. As a 24-yr-old virgin male, it's intimidating knowing that, if I ever got into a relationship, my sexual performance would be compared to a lot of other guys the woman has slept with. It's true that this goes both ways -- guys compare the women they've had sex with -- but I think it's worse for men. I overhear women talk about how a guy was a bad kisser or had a small dick, and I'm insecure about the fact that I might be that guy if I ever get into a sexual relationship.

 

So get with someone who doesn't feel the need to endlessly compare people.

 

Genetic Worth.

 

With the theory of evolution now being accepted, and with an understanding of genes and evolutionary psychology, it seems like a lot guys including myself feel they're worthless. I'm only 5'7", meaning that few women would want to get impregnated by me and my sperm wouldn't be accepted at most sperm banks for that reason. I'm not that handsome either. Even if a woman likes me as person and gets married to me, if her child-rearing instinct kicks in then I know she would consider me a second-rate individual and secretly wish that she could get ****ed by the tall, handsome guy in town, who has produced a bunch of good-looking babies for the various women he has knocked up.

 

So get with someone who doesn't care so much about height, or who understands that even though she may fantasize about something, that's not so much what she needs, or really wants in the end.

[Pompeii]

You're not off the mark. Our society is vastly different than the one our parents grew up in and I highly doubt that most of our generation will find "true love" in their lifetimes. People just don't really regard things anymore. As a male, it is expected for you to be experienced and for you to be the "segway" as you should say into sexual encounters and relationships. Most women past the second year of college don't really regard male virginity or inexperience as anything special. I've said this over and over again but it seems that one listens... as a male, your worth is judged by how much money you make, what your position within a corporate or work environment is, and how many women you've been with. Nothing else. We can piddle-paddle around the bush all we want here, but those are the three main things. Ability to provide, status, and virility. Those are the three things that matter.

 

I gave up the dating game because I have seen that I am called for something greater. I am called towards mastery. Mastery of myself, mastery of my career. The dating game is simply a losing proposition. I'm getting older by the day but I still remain at the same level of inexperience with women. If I ever get into a relationship with a woman, she will be inevitably more experienced than I. This can be deadly as I advance into the latter stages of my career. Why would a woman want to be with an inexperienced male at that stage in the game? It's not endearing. When I'm in my 30s I know that I will probably be tagged as "marriage material" by women. Steady job, massive amounts of income, mentally stable... But it wouldn't be true attraction - I'd be shuffled into a provider role. She wouldn't really be attracted to me. What would I be able to offer her? Sexual experience? No. Relationship experience? No. Then what? It's something else, something more underhanded.

 

A few years ago when I was in high school, I didn't believe women were very sexual. I couldn't believe it. Now, in college, I see all these girls hooking up with these guys. If they're hooking up with all these guys, why aren't they hooking up with me? Obviously, it's a certain type of guy. I was kind of mad/sad about it a couple of months ago but I got over it. The girls I know talk a lot of bull**** when it comes to the guys they like, so I don't believe them. I don't believe that you can't be aesthetic. I don't believe that you can't have status. I just don't believe it. Because I've seen too much contrary.

 

In terms of height, that may be a slight non-factor. I know a guy who is 5' 8" and he slays women but he has some of tightest game I've ever seen. He is a unique individual and there simply isn't anyone else really like him. He's one of those guys you meet once in a lifetime.

 

So **** it, I'm done. I don't feel like playing sugar daddy. I don't feel like being a meal ticket. I don't feel like being a free ride. People can say "well women make their own money" until they're blue in the face but I know what the real deal is here.

[Pompeii]

So get with someone who doesn't value such things as much. They're out there.

 

 

So get with someone who doesn't feel the need to endlessly compare people.

 

 

So get with someone who doesn't care so much about height, or who understands that even though she may fantasize about something, that's not so much what she needs, or really wants in the end.

 

You state all of these things as if it's as easy as going to the grocery store and picking a head of lettuce. I live in reality and finding a girl that's actually "down to earth" is like finding a Pokemon in your backyard.

[todreaminblue]

You state all of these things as if it's as easy as going to the grocery store and picking a head of lettuce. I live in reality and finding a girl that's actually "down to earth" is like finding a Pokemon in your backyard.

 

 

 

pikachuuuuuuuuuuu...:bunny:..there are lot of women who are down to earth...girls are meant to have the head in the clouds and not worrying about dating boyfriends in the first place......deb

[TaraMaiden]

You state all of these things as if it's as easy as going to the grocery store and picking a head of lettuce. I live in reality and finding a girl that's actually "down to earth" is like finding a Pokemon in your backyard.

How many couples do you see when you're out and about?

And how many of them are gorgeous tall people, with slim wives/hunky husbands or drop-dead-gorgeous model looks?

 

I expect they all look quite normal, really... not many perfect 10 oil-paintings out there.... guys with the odd paunch...ladies with a bit of puppy fat around the hips or waist....

 

So.... if they can do it - what's your excuse, again?

[MomsSpaghetti]

How many couples do you see when you're out and about?

And how many of them are gorgeous tall people, with slim wives/hunky husbands or drop-dead-gorgeous model looks?

 

With few exceptions, the good-looking women of the world live in gated communities and are married to doctors who may or may not be good looking.

 

However, money skews the whole picture, so let's control for that variable by considering the stages in life where money isn't an issue, namely high school and college. It seems like good looks and popularity are all that matter during those times. You really could just say "good looks", since it's the good-looking people who are popular in the first place.

 

People who say that a good personality, confidence and wit matter are preaching something that has as much evidence as Creation science, from my observation.

[todreaminblue]

With few exceptions, the good-looking women of the world live in gated communities and are married to doctors who may or may not be good looking.

 

However, money skews the whole picture, so let's control for that variable by considering the stages in life where money isn't an issue, namely high school and college. It seems like good looks and popularity are all that matter during those times. You really could just say "good looks", since it's the good-looking people who are popular in the first place.

 

 

hahahahhaha...stepford ya reckon.........popularity is over rated, life in there is closed off and gated,its not a life where you would be sated, its a box with a lid, where the scale is slid, on the bridge of your nose,or owning the right type of garden hose,a perfect life is never as it seems, i think ill stick to my imperfect existence with my hopes and my dreams.........deb

[Pompeii]

With few exceptions, the good-looking women of the world live in gated communities and are married to doctors who may or may not be good looking.

 

Eh.. Now THAT'S a stretch. I've seen a lot of good-looking women that don't live in gated communities or are married to doctors. I know there are many doctors out there that have "trophy wives" but by and large, most good-looking women are either married to good-looking men or provider-men.

[Pompeii]

How many couples do you see when you're out and about?

And how many of them are gorgeous tall people, with slim wives/hunky husbands or drop-dead-gorgeous model looks?

 

I expect they all look quite normal, really... not many perfect 10 oil-paintings out there.... guys with the odd paunch...ladies with a bit of puppy fat around the hips or waist....

 

So.... if they can do it - what's your excuse, again?

 

I don't consider anyone a "perfect 10 oil painting". I do see a lot of "odd couples" but for the most part most people are matched in attractiveness.

 

I have no excuses, I just don't want to get entangled with someone who's vastly more experienced than me when it comes to sex and relationships. At this point, there's virtually no female like that with the exception of uber-religious girls. I'm not that in the slightest. They'd have all the power in the relationship.

 

So no, no excuses, just a realization that many guys fail to grasp and it ****s them up.

 

Sorry but I'm not going to be another guy who slinks down the tubes as a provider.

[Eggplant]

I have no excuses, I just don't want to get entangled with someone who's vastly more experienced than me when it comes to sex and relationships. At this point, there's virtually no female like that with the exception of uber-religious girls. I'm not that in the slightest. They'd have all the power in the relationship.

 

Have you tried dating younger women? They will have less experience.

 

Some even very religious women may be compatible with a non-religious partner -- hey you're living in this world together, regardless of afterlives...

 

I don't understand your power statement. And if 2 people are in love, in my experience, both partners are trying to open up and be vulnerable -- it's the opposite of a power struggle.

[Eggplant]

Sorry but I'm not going to be another guy who slinks down the tubes as a provider.

 

It's the male fear of working hard to win over a woman's affections when she's already given herself up for free, right? That's probably why people throughout history have locked up their daughters so that they would be marriage material.

 

The provider, by the way, is a winning strategy. Children with a stable father figure are rich in more ways than one. Even mega-players take provider roles in addition to their escapades with promiscuous women.

[Eggplant]

People who say that a good personality, confidence and wit matter are preaching something that has as much evidence as Creation science, from my observation.

 

If you think you're being judged too much on how you look, think of how it is for women.

[Pompeii]

Have you tried dating younger women? They will have less experience.

 

LOL. I'm 19. You want me to date 16 year olds? LOL. LOL. I don't like young chicks.

 

Some even very religious women may be compatible with a non-religious partner -- hey you're living in this world together, regardless of afterlives.

 

No. They don't care. As far as they're concerned, you're going to hell and they will do everything in your power to convert you. I am on my way to being elite, I don't need that in my life.

[Pompeii]

The provider, by the way, is a winning strategy. Children with a stable father figure are rich in more ways than one. Even mega-players take provider roles in addition to their escapades with promiscuous women.

 

No. Because children see dad being treated like a pussy-whipped guy with no balls and they believe that this behavior acceptable when dealing with women. What do we get then? A generation of kids who think that the woman should have the power in the relationship.

[TaraMaiden]

You have some seriously warped ideas, young man.

I suggest you go out in the real world and do a bit of growing up.

Why not volunteer at a hospice or soup kitchen?

You need a bit of a reality check.....

 

or are you above such things?

 

How old are you, exactly??

[Taramere]

If you think you're being judged too much on how you look, think of how it is for women.

 

I think you'll find that in a lot of threads of this type, consideration of what things are like for other people is in somewhat short supply.

[Woggle]

I think you'll find that in a lot of threads of this type, consideration of what things are like for other people is in somewhat short supply.

 

True but this goes both ways. I really think it would do a world of good if everybody can switch genders for one week and see what things are really like.

[Pompeii]

You have some seriously warped ideas, young man.

I suggest you go out in the real world and do a bit of growing up.

Why not volunteer at a hospice or soup kitchen?

You need a bit of a reality check.....

 

or are you above such things?

 

If you're talking about me, I've already done my fair share of volunteerism. It was a nice experience.

[Taramere]

True but this goes both ways. I really think it would do a world of good if everybody can switch genders for one week and see what things are really like.

 

 

I see a guy here who posted a tale of woe. I read it the other day, saw he'd received no responses and I remember thinking "****, this is somebody who's going through life feeling worthless, he's put his feelings about that out on here - and nobody's responded to it." So I put some effort into a response.

 

Coming back and reading the rest of the thread, I've concluded that this guy's apparent failure to be treated by others in a way that makes him feel valued might be down, in no small part, to the way he conducts himself in life. Can you guess why I think that?

[Woggle]

I see a guy here who posted a tale of woe. I read it the other day, saw he'd received no responses and I remember thinking "****, this is somebody who's going through life feeling worthless, he's put his feelings about that out on here - and nobody's responded to it." So I put some effort into a response.

 

Coming back and reading the rest of the thread, I've concluded that this guy's apparent failure to be treated by others in a way that makes him feel valued might be down, in no small part, to the way he conducts himself in life. Can you guess why I think that?

 

Probably because he sees the opposite sex as an opposing force instead of as just people.

[Roadkill007]

Probably because he sees the opposite sex as an opposing force instead of as just people.

 

 

what's the saying.... love is war? or was it all is fair in love and war? but wait... does that also come down to love = war? ... ehh.. i dunno random thoughts bouncing around my noggin

 

This (seeing opposite sex as opposing force) makes a lot of sense though. I sort of feel like when these guys think of "what a woman wants in a man", they think of some weird caricature of the "ideal man", and then compare themselves to that and give up.

[ThaWholigan]

A lot of guys make themselves feel worthless and project that onto women subconsciously.

[GoodOnPaper]

If you think you're being judged too much on how you look, think of how it is for women.

 

It's difficult to empathize. I highly doubt that any woman is too concerned about what I or the typical LS "struggling guy" think of her looks.