A lot of guys feel worthless to women nowadays.

[ltjg45]

True but this goes both ways. I really think it would do a world of good if everybody can switch genders for one week and see what things are really like.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it changes nothing for me if I was a woman for a week.....outside of learning the difference between how men and women actually use the toilet and other surprises that I never considered.

 

Dating? Social life?

 

Still the same, for the most part.

[Eggplant]

No. Because children see dad being treated like a pussy-whipped guy with no balls and they believe that this behavior acceptable when dealing with women. What do we get then? A generation of kids who think that the woman should have the power in the relationship.

 

Perhaps some of the relationships you have seen are bad models. The dad should not be "pussy-whipped." He is to be respected. Some people, of both genders, are disrespectful and verbally abusive of their partners. I have seen it too, and it is not a good model. If you have not seen good models, I can see your hesitation to be in a relationship.

 

The man used to be the head of the household. Today, there is more of a balance of power. You and your partner can negotiate your own terms. But neither partner should be "whipped."

[Eggplant]

LOL. I'm 19. You want me to date 16 year olds? LOL. LOL. I don't like young chicks.

Oh... when I was 19 I had never even held hands with a guy. I was shy in high school and probably hard to approach. And I'm not religious. I assumed when you said women your age all already had lots of experience that you were 25 at least. And I wasn't the only one. My freshman year roommates were all quite attractive and had never had boyfriends. There are definitely girls your age without too much experience.

 

I guess 3 years seems like a lot when you're 19. A sixteen-year-old girl would be swept off her feet if an older nineteen-year-old paid attention to her. But that's probably a bad idea... Her parents would freak out.

[Taramere]

Probably because he sees the opposite sex as an opposing force instead of as just people.

 

 

The OP has shown pretty poor manners. That's what I was really getting at when I commented on the effort I put in, posting to a stranger when I read that he felt worthless and noted that he hadn't received any comments. It may sound like a bit of a flip judgement to say I think this guy lacks basic courtesy, but on taking a quick look at some of his other posts I'd say my initial instincts are good on this.

 

Unhappy people can sometimes be oblivious to how they're coming across. When people in the outside world are chilly or dismissive towards them, they'll think it's because they're worthless, or that the dismissive people are worthless/shallow types who'd be all over them if they were a bit taller, or richer. Or that life just sucks and nobody cares any more. The last thing that's going to occur to them is that perhaps they come across as inconsiderate and unappreciative one time too many, when another person had put themselves out for them in some small way.

 

Gratitude is a big part of feeling happy, but to a certain type of person the word conjures up visions of prostrating oneself - so they resist feeling it because their self esteem is already at rock bottom. In my previous profession, which was a helping one, we were trained not to have expectations of gratitude from clients. A lot of that came from a certain hand wringing attitude about the evils of being in a job like that for your own needs, or of behaving like some sort of Lady/Lord Bountiful. I felt it was wrong. A lot of us did, after spending a bit of time in the job rather than listening to various out-of-touch-with-reality theories at university. I don't think people should prostrate themselves in the name of gratitude, but I do believe they should be encouraged to feel it - and that a true sense of gratitude is a very positive, empowering and uplifting thing that's an important ingredient in personal happiness. Rude, ungrateful people are generally miserable. The lack of gratitude and the misery perpetuate eachother.

 

I remember a woman I worked with, in that old job, crying in the kitchen one day because her contract wasn't being renewed. She couldn't understand it at all, but the problem was clear. She was consistently rude, and discourteous. Always scowling, and never expressing a world of thanks or appreciation when colleagues went out of their way for her. I had assumed the rudeness was deliberate. It certainly looked deliberate, but when I found her crying that day and spent a bit of time speaking to her I realised that she really was just bundled up in her unhappy world - and oblivious to how her behaviour was perceived, and impacted on, other people. Unfortunately the bosses there obviously hadn't given her any pointers as to where she had gone wrong, but likely that even if they had she'd have just reacted in an aggressive, blame shifting sort of way.

 

And I see the same thing here, quite often. People who are convinced that their misery somehow means that they're in some way morally and intellectually superior - even though the reality is that they often come across to others as self absorbed rude and lacking in awareness. That this, rather than the world going to hell in a handbasket, is the real reason for their difficulty in forming rapport with/attracting other people to them.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Taramere

[footballfan10]

The OP's gonna go on a gun rampage in 5,4,3,2,1 LOL

[WildBillJP]

Gender Equality - If what you're saying is true, then most artists and musicians would never get laid.

 

Sexual Revolution - Fortunately for us men, getting a woman sexual attracted and aroused, in most cases, has very little to do with your looks or the size of your penis.

 

Genetic Worth - If that were true, the gene for being 5'7 would have been weeded out many years ago. There is an enormous list of short men who have an enormous list of women they've had sex with. Easy-E was 5'5 and literally died from having too much sex.

[tbf]

The simple answer to the opening premise would be that people are only as valuable as they feel themselves to be. This is the essence of self-esteem.

[Carenth]

Self-deprecation is a serious turn off. Making the opposite sex seem like a combative force is a massive turn off.

You might not realise it but people pick up on these negative connotations very quickly. So many guys on here are their own worst enemy when it comes to women.

 

They put themselves down and have a generally one-dimensional outlook on women that they are some how evil and feel slighted as if some fundamental right that has been taken from them. They don't consider women as individual people and lump them into this group. Basically setting themselves up for failure.

 

You want to be more attractive. Work on your negative attitude and outlook on life. Learn to love and value yourself for who you are. If you can't do that then how can you expect anyone else to love you if you hate yourself?

Edited June 27, 2013 by Carenth

[Pompeii]

Sexual Revolution - Fortunately for us men, getting a woman sexual attracted and aroused, in most cases, has very little to do with your looks

 

As if.

 

Genetic Worth - If that were true, the gene for being 5'7 would have been weeded out many years ago. There is an enormous list of short men who have an enormous list of women they've had sex with. Easy-E was 5'5 and literally died from having too much sex.

 

But Eazy-E was a rapper. And he had money. And he was famous.

 

Also, there is no "gene" for being a particular height. Your maximum height potential is dictated on your parent's genes. A couple could have six children, five of them could be 5'2-5'7 then you have one guy who ends up being 6'3.

[Pompeii]

I guess 3 years seems like a lot when you're 19. A sixteen-year-old girl would be swept off her feet if an older nineteen-year-old paid attention to her. But that's probably a bad idea... Her parents would freak out.

 

Of course her parents would freak out. Three years isn't much when you advance into your latter 20s and beyond. But dating a 16 year old? That's like asking to get locked up. I **** around and get locked up for being a pedo or get a Winchester bullet in my head from some crazy dad.

 

No. In my quest to be elite I cannot afford any liabilities. The eventual reward of being elite has too much promise for me to be taken down by something like that.

[SuperGeek]

Wow it's like you wrote this post for me.

 

I'm 34, have a high income, stable financially, and basically seen as a provider and nothing else at this point. It's really hard to just accept this because I know most of the girls I date would rather be out with some guy just out of prison, full muscled, and wild. Oh and btw, I don't think status and income matters much at this point either. Women are getting educated and filling high paying positions more now than ever before. So the whole 'traditional' family unit is gone.

 

I even tested the 'provider' theory one night with the aforementioned girl and told her I had lost my job and was going to be struggling for a bit. She dropped me instantly. So the rule now is I'm not going to dress up and advertise the financial wealth I've accumulated. Too many damn gold diggers.

 

I gave up dating after failing miserably at it, so now it's just starting a business, traveling, fun toys, and just having as much fun as possible before I exit the world. Having kids and a family just isn't in the cards for me and I have been very depressed about this :( -- women are too damn picky and some other douchebag gets picked over me every single time.

 

Oh and online dating? What a freaking joke. I'll never spend another minute the rest of my life sending emails to random women who are 93% statistically probable to just delete the email after reading only the first two sentences. Forget it. I'm not going to lie my ass off either and feed them a bunch of bullcrap like they seem to want to hear anyway. Screw the whole damn process!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Honestly I have to wonder if women will just have men exterminated in about 100 years. Doesn't seem like we are good for much these days to them.

 

So yeah the escort industry is starting to look pretty tempting right now. Of course it's an empty world going that route, but if women won't give me the time of day, what other choice do I have? The world is a sad freaking place for a lot of guys

 

 

I gave up the dating game because I have seen that I am called for something greater. I am called towards mastery. Mastery of myself, mastery of my career. The dating game is simply a losing proposition. I'm getting older by the day but I still remain at the same level of inexperience with women. If I ever get into a relationship with a woman, she will be inevitably more experienced than I. This can be deadly as I advance into the latter stages of my career. Why would a woman want to be with an inexperienced male at that stage in the game? It's not endearing. When I'm in my 30s I know that I will probably be tagged as "marriage material" by women. Steady job, massive amounts of income, mentally stable... But it wouldn't be true attraction - I'd be shuffled into a provider role. She wouldn't really be attracted to me. What would I be able to offer her? Sexual experience? No. Relationship experience? No. Then what? It's something else, something more underhanded.

 

In terms of height, that may be a slight non-factor. I know a guy who is 5' 8" and he slays women but he has some of tightest game I've ever seen. He is a unique individual and there simply isn't anyone else really like him. He's one of those guys you meet once in a lifetime.

 

So **** it, I'm done. I don't feel like playing sugar daddy. I don't feel like being a meal ticket. I don't feel like being a free ride. People can say "well women make their own money" until they're blue in the face but I know what the real deal is here.

Edited June 28, 2013 by SuperGeek

[SuperGeek]

Describes my childhood almsot 100%. My dad can't even get the ****ing mail because his wife (my OCD mom) has to do it because she has to weed out all the potential 'porn' ads. If he sees another provacative girl that would be adultery or cheating. Yeah FML!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No. Because children see dad being treated like a pussy-whipped guy with no balls and they believe that this behavior acceptable when dealing with women. What do we get then? A generation of kids who think that the woman should have the power in the relationship.

[SuperGeek]

Off topic, but are you trying to drive all of us sexually frustrated males INSANE by your daily changing lipstick avatars???? I think they are great, but man does it depress the **** out of me.

 

Anyway back on topic.

 

You have some seriously warped ideas, young man.

I suggest you go out in the real world and do a bit of growing up.

Why not volunteer at a hospice or soup kitchen?

You need a bit of a reality check.....

 

or are you above such things?

 

How old are you, exactly??

[Pompeii]

Wow it's like you wrote this post for me.

 

I'm 34, have a high income, stable financially, and basically seen as a provider and nothing else at this point. It's really hard to just accept this because I know most of the girls I date would rather be out with some guy just out of prison, full muscled, and wild. Oh and btw, I don't think status and income matters much at this point either. Women are getting educated and filling high paying positions more now than ever before. So the whole 'traditional' family unit is gone.

 

I couldn't give a flying **** about the "traditional" family unit. I'm actually glad that women can make their own money now and not be completely dependent on men. Some of my good friends come from single parent homes and if women couldn't work, they'd be on the street somewhere. Mentally, they are somewhat ****ed from the divorce but that's another discussion. I'm proud of my own mother for doing something she likes to do and not having to have my dad support all of the family. We would have went under a long time ago if that was the case.

 

I even tested the 'provider' theory one night with the aforementioned girl and told her I had lost my job and was going to be struggling for a bit. She dropped me instantly. So the rule now is I'm not going to dress up and advertise the financial wealth I've accumulated. Too many damn gold diggers.

 

I suppose you could have meaningless, shallow sex with these gold diggers. But then again, they'd probably make you wait for it. Women at that age don't tend to give it up that easy. They know the deal by then and they're not going to let another guy get into their pants and slip away into the night.

 

I gave up dating after failing miserably at it, so now it's just starting a business, traveling, fun toys, and just having as much fun as possible before I exit the world. Having kids and a family just isn't in the cards for me and I have been very depressed about this :( -- women are too damn picky and some other douchebag gets picked over me every single time.

 

That's life I guess.

 

Oh and online dating? What a freaking joke. I'll never spend another minute the rest of my life sending emails to random women who are 93% statistically probable to just delete the email after reading only the first two sentences. Forget it. I'm not going to lie my ass off either and feed them a bunch of bullcrap like they seem to want to hear anyway. Screw the whole damn process!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why did you even waste your time? I'm not even into my second decade of life and even I know that online dating is bull****.

 

Honestly I have to wonder if women will just have men exterminated in about 100 years. Doesn't seem like we are good for much these days to them.

 

I doubt it. Women whether they want to admit it or not, need men. Visa-versa too. If it ever got to that unlikely dystopian state, I suppose there would just a mass extermination of undesirable males and then the guys who are over 6'2 with lean body mass would be kept as breeding stock. However, I don't live in a comic-book like you seem to so the more realistic scenario is that women will have a large amount of the political power in 100 years. We will most likely have our first woman president of the United States by then and probably several more.

 

So yeah the escort industry is starting to look pretty tempting right now. Of course it's an empty world going that route, but if women won't give me the time of day, what other choice do I have? The world is a sad freaking place for a lot of guys

 

Do it if you feel like you need to. The world is a sad place only if you want it to be. Just know that you have it better off than most of the world. In the grand scope of things, these first world problems don't mean ****.

[A O]

Gender Equality.

 

As a libertarian, I believe in equal opportunity for the individual. I have no problem with how society structures itself as a result. However, I can't help feeling worthless when I've mingled with women at my university who were on track to be more successful than me. Even the hot ones at my university went on to medical school or working at some prestigious consulting firm. The expectation is still there for us men to blow women off their feet with our ambition and success. That's one less category where I can have confidence in myself..

This part is understandable - times are changing but some things do remain the same. The position that women choose men from may be changing but the pool of men remains the same, really that's all that matters. You are competing with other men and as long as men as a collective remains relatively similar then it doesn't matter too much how much women have changed. In other words just carry on as men have done before and still do so now - things really haven't changed as much as you think.

[tbf]

You are competing

Competing for someone's affections is one big fail.

[Pompeii]

Competing for someone's affections is one big fail.

 

Really? That's all it seems like dating is. Whoever the best man (or woman) is wins.

[tbf]

Really? That's all it seems like dating is. Whoever the best man (or woman) is wins.

Dating, if people are looking for something serious, is a way to find a compatible partner. When you date like it's entering a hunger games arena, you're automatically disadvantaging yourself.

 

Understand social transactions. The minute someone makes you feel like you need to prove yourself to them, you've automatically disadvantaged yourself if you agree to play. Needing to prove yourself to anyone puts you as the inferior party. Consider parent/child or boss/employee dynamics.

[A O]

Competing for someone's affections is one big fail.

Indeed - its folly to ever try. However, as a man, my competition is men, ditto for women and their competition being other women. As such, no one needs to worry about the changing dynamics of the gender one is interested in (as is the thrust of the OP's point here) if the pool they are competing with hasn't changed any. Or put another way, one gender may change but in turn if the gender they pick from remains the same then the aforementioned change doesn't mean a lot.

[GoodOnPaper]

The minute someone makes you feel like you need to prove yourself to them, you've automatically disadvantaged yourself if you agree to play. Needing to prove yourself to anyone puts you as the inferior party.

 

But we hear a lot about what we are (or aren't) "bringing to the table" when it comes to attracting someone. That makes it sound like we do need to prove ourselves.

[tbf]

Indeed - its folly to ever try. However, as a man, my competition is men, ditto for women and their competition being other women. As such, no one needs to worry about the changing dynamics of the gender one is interested in (as is the thrust of the OP's point here) if the pool they are competing with hasn't changed any. Or put another way, one gender may change but in turn if the gender they pick from remains the same then the aforementioned change doesn't mean a lot.

I've explained social transactions. If you feel you're in competition, time to step down since whomever you're interested in, isn't that into you.

 

But we hear a lot about what we are (or aren't) "bringing to the table" when it comes to attracting someone. That makes it sound like we do need to prove ourselves.

Bringing to the table is a metaphor derived from boardroom negotiations. Negotiations can be a competition of win/lose or they can be resolved through win/win.

[A O]

I've explained social transactions. If you feel you're in competition, time to step down since whomever you're interested in, isn't that into you.

Best to look at this within the context of the point it was made in wherein worrying about the changing ways of the opposite gender was the general point. Now, blind freddy knows that is counterproductive and I have outlined a reason why the OP has little to fear about the dynamic that has him concerned. Competition exits although that doesn't mean it needs to hold sway over anyone. In the context of the original point in question - I am using it to explain away a concern and to not make it - competition itself - a concern.

[MomsSpaghetti]

Dating, if people are looking for something serious, is a way to find a compatible partner. When you date like it's entering a hunger games arena, you're automatically disadvantaging yourself.

 

Understand social transactions. The minute someone makes you feel like you need to prove yourself to them, you've automatically disadvantaged yourself if you agree to play. Needing to prove yourself to anyone puts you as the inferior party. Consider parent/child or boss/employee dynamics.

 

You live in a fantasy land. The fact is that the dating arena is a market and competition is how a market works.

[tbf]

Best to look at this within the context of the point it was made in wherein worrying about the changing ways of the opposite gender was the general point. Now, blind freddy knows that is counterproductive and I have outlined a reason why the OP has little to fear about the dynamic that has him concerned. Competition exits although that doesn't mean it needs to hold sway over anyone. In the context of the original point in question - I am using it to explain away a concern and to not make it - competition itself - a concern.

 

 

Gender Equality.

 

However, I can't help feeling worthless when I've mingled with women at my university who were on track to be more successful than me.

The OP perceives competition with the women, themselves.

 

The Sexual Revolution.

 

As a 24-yr-old virgin male, it's intimidating knowing that, if I ever got into a relationship, my sexual performance would be compared to a lot of other guys the woman has slept with.

Once again, competition but with other men.

 

Genetic Worth.

 

I'm only 5'7", meaning that few women would want to get impregnated by me and my sperm wouldn't be accepted at most sperm banks for that reason. I'm not that handsome either.

More inferred competing with other men.

 

Competition is the essence of this thread where to me, competition shouldn't be the underlying theme to dating if you're looking for a serious relationship since you should be looking for compatibility of traits, values and goals.

 

Now if you're looking for universal appeal so you can bed notch as much as humanly possible, men described in the OP will fail since the focus is superficiality.

[tbf]

You live in a fantasy land. The fact is that the dating arena is a market and competition is how a market works.

As a woman who used to run away from men who didn't perceive me as someone compatible, putting me at the disadvantage of feeling like I needed to compete or prove myself, I'd say I have a very good handle on the issue.