Why are there no good guys left?

[Woggle]

but that's rarely just once, isn't it? When someone gets away with bad behaviour it's usually repeated I'd say

 

Also a lot of people chalk it up to a mistake and feel no guilt even if they damn near destroyed another person's life.

[joystickd]

but that's rarely just once, isn't it? When someone gets away with bad behaviour it's usually repeated I'd say

That depends on if that person is getting the desired result consistently.

[Emilia]

Also a lot of people chalk it up to a mistake and feel no guilt even if they damn near destroyed another person's life.

 

That depends on if that person is getting the desired result consistently.

I honestly think the answer is gauging how self-absorbed that person is. The more occupied someone is with themselves, the less likely they care about the damage caused to anyone else.

[Woggle]

I honestly think the answer is gauging how self-absorbed that person is. The more occupied someone is with themselves, the less likely they care about the damage caused to anyone else.

 

If they are like that then lose all moral authority with other people. One of the women I used to work with who proudly cheated on her husband actually had the nerve to get mad at me for dating so soon after my divorce because it was insensitive to my ex.

[Emilia]

If they are like that then lose all moral authority with other people. One of the women I used to work with who proudly cheated on her husband actually had the nerve to get mad at me for dating so soon after my divorce because it was insensitive to my ex.

I'm not surprised. Isn't that astonishing. The lack of self-awareness. I'm not being self-righteous, no-one is perfect but admonishing people for one thing and doing it yourself even worse.... The mind boggles I genuinely don't get it

[joystickd]

The sad thing is with some women being accommodating and respectful is seen as weak and boring. The thing is some grow from that and some don't. Dating is an evolution in a sense. We start out wanting one thing and then eventually grow to want another. Men for example first focus on getting in the game. Game meaning dating. PUA is popular because of this. Once they are in and have success you get caught up in the excitement of dating more than one woman or having sex with more than one woman. This is some men. Some get in the game and find that special person. Some it takes longer to get in relationship mode than others. Just like women it takes a while sometimes to get from that jerk stage to the good man stage.

[Woggle]

I don't think I am self righteous for thinking it is wrong to treat people like that. I am very liberal on most things but I believe in treating each other the way you want to be treated. You can't crap all over people then get mad when it comes back to you.

[Emilia]

The sad thing is with some women being accommodating and respectful is seen as weak and boring. The thing is some grow from that and some don't. Dating is an evolution in a sense. We start out wanting one thing and then eventually grow to want another. Men for example first focus on getting in the game. Game meaning dating. PUA is popular because of this. Once they are in and have success you get caught up in the excitement of dating more than one woman or having sex with more than one woman. This is some men. Some get in the game and find that special person. Some it takes longer to get in relationship mode than others. Just like women it takes a while sometimes to get from that jerk stage to the good man stage.

I think being accommodating in the sense that letting another person walking over you and do what they want is indeed weak and boring. It's not respectful. It might be more taxing to have your boundaries but it's absolutely necessary. What would you rather have: an other half who keeps cheating on you or be single but have your pride and self-worth intact?

 

Yes I agree that the key is finding the person who wants depth and substance and isn't caught up in chasing skirt. Perhaps he has done it already, perhaps he gets bored of it easily. Men are 'good' for different reasons, I find it's usually those that don't need to prove anything.

[Woggle]

The sad thing is with some women being accommodating and respectful is seen as weak and boring. The thing is some grow from that and some don't. Dating is an evolution in a sense. We start out wanting one thing and then eventually grow to want another. Men for example first focus on getting in the game. Game meaning dating. PUA is popular because of this. Once they are in and have success you get caught up in the excitement of dating more than one woman or having sex with more than one woman. This is some men. Some get in the game and find that special person. Some it takes longer to get in relationship mode than others. Just like women it takes a while sometimes to get from that jerk stage to the good man stage.

 

That is the way life is in general. When I worked for the chamber of commerce I schmoozed with corporate executives who had utter contempt for the people they screwed over as if they were lower life forms who deserved to be chewed up and spit out. They felt a sense of superiority over them. The funny thing is when one fought back like if a mom and pop owner refused to sell so they can build some big chain place they cried like a baby.

[joystickd]

I'm not surprised. Isn't that astonishing. The lack of self-awareness. I'm not being self-righteous, no-one is perfect but admonishing people for one thing and doing it yourself even worse.... The mind boggles I genuinely don't get it

A lot of people look at their situation differently than looking at someone else in the same situation. Just look at the guys that talk about stuggling women on here. I mean people struggle with dating but they see their trouble getting dates as an actual struggle as compared to a woman trying to find a quality guy to date.

[Emilia]

A lot of people look at their situation differently than looking at someone else in the same situation. Just look at the guys that talk about stuggling women on here. I mean people struggle with dating but they see their trouble getting dates as an actual struggle as compared to a woman trying to find a quality guy to date.

but what we have tried to point out in the past - and I'd really rather not hijack ES's thread - is that it's no good for me if I can get plenty of apples when I'm looking for an orange.

 

What those guys want when they talk about struggling is sex. What the women want is a relationship. The two won't always overlap for various reasons. One is that the guys might only want sex and the woman wants more and doesn't want to be hurt (I'm sure you find that understandable). Two, the two people are not compatible.

[fortyninethousand322]

but what we have tried to point out in the past - and I'd really rather not hijack ES's thread - is that it's no good for me if I can get plenty of apples when I'm looking for an orange.

 

What those guys want when they talk about struggling is sex. What the women want is a relationship. The two won't always overlap for various reasons. One is that the guys might only want sex and the woman wants more and doesn't want to be hurt (I'm sure you find that understandable). Two, the two people are not compatible.

 

Not me. I just want someone who wants to go to a museum with me, or a ball game, or a picnic or whatever.

 

Sex I'm sure is nice, but takes a backseat to those things...

[joystickd]

but what we have tried to point out in the past - and I'd really rather not hijack ES's thread - is that it's no good for me if I can get plenty of apples when I'm looking for an orange.

 

What those guys want when they talk about struggling is sex. What the women want is a relationship. The two won't always overlap for various reasons. One is that the guys might only want sex and the woman wants more and doesn't want to be hurt (I'm sure you find that understandable). Two, the two people are not compatible.

 

Yeah they are. All men want sex it's just what context that it's in. It's either:

1. short term non monogamous

2. short term monogamous

3. long term monogamous.

 

The thing is most women assume because a man wants sex that it's a ONS. One of the biggest problems is that for the struggling man social programming in terms of man/woman relations can be confusing because of the inconsistent behavior, but that is a whole other issue.

 

Most struggling men want relationships, but it's just so happens sex is a way to know a woman is into them. Most struggling men have dealt with inconsistent behavior from women so sex is the true sign they are into them. Most of the time its not about using them but in their mind it's the only way to know she is really into me and not keeping me as an ego boost.

[Emilia]

Yeah they are. All men want sex it's just what context that it's in. It's either:

1. short term non monogamous

2. short term monogamous

3. long term monogamous.

 

The thing is most women assume because a man wants sex that it's a ONS.

It's not what I mean. I think a lot of people are incapable of building a meaningful connection with someone and are able to live together, screw together, eat together, etc but not really know how to connect. Hence the crazy Break Up threads. You didn't see your breakup coming? REALLY?

One of the biggest problems is that for the struggling man social programming in terms of man/woman relations can be confusing because of the inconsistent behavior, but that is a whole other issue.

 

Most struggling men want relationships, but it's just so happens sex is a way to know a woman is into them. Most struggling men have dealt with inconsistent behavior from women so sex is the true sign they are into them. Most of the time its not about using them but in their mind it's the only way to know she is really into me and not keeping me as an ego boost.

Nah. A lot of guys want sex where they can get it because for someone unsuccessful something is better than nothing. You talk to all the slack-jawed mouth-breathers of either sex and they have no frikken idea what to do with the other person or don't even like them all that much.

[joystickd]

It's not what I mean. I think a lot of people are incapable of building a meaningful connection with someone and are able to live together, screw together, eat together, etc but not really know how to connect. Hence the crazy Break Up threads. You didn't see your breakup coming? REALLY?

 

Nah. A lot of guys want sex where they can get it because for someone unsuccessful something is better than nothing. You talk to all the slack-jawed mouth-breathers of either sex and they have no frikken idea what to do with the other person or don't even like them all that much.

I will agree somewhat with that but to a guy that get friendzoned a lot sex is a true sign for him. Bait and switch does factor in sometimes with not seeing the breakup coming. A lot of men are better able to connect and be vulnerable after sex. I know for me that how I do it. We feel more comfortable after we have a strong indication of that you are into us and have expressed that.

[joystickd]

Nah. A lot of guys want sex where they can get it because for someone unsuccessful something is better than nothing.

Get on a forum with struggling guys and the majority of them have the same problem. It usually starts with there is this one girl I like. Most like one person and want to be with them.

[hppr]

Most struggling men have dealt with inconsistent behavior from women so sex is the true sign they are into them. Most of the time its not about using them but in their mind it's the only way to know she is really into me and not keeping me as an ego boost.

 

That is exactly how it is.

 

Every guy has been there before. You go on a few dates, you have a lot in common, you spend evenings together, you snuggle in front of the TV...and then BAM it's "lez be friends!" or she's having a FWB with some other guy and tries to pass it off as "nothing I really like you honest!"

 

Until you sleep with her you have no idea where you stand with her. None.

 

Some guys learn this when they are teens.

 

Some guys in their 20s.

 

Some guys learn it after 5-10 years of being married.

 

But we all learn it eventually.

[hppr]

Get on a forum with struggling guys and the majority of them have the same problem. It usually starts with there is this one girl I like. Most like one person and want to be with them.

 

Yeah usually they like the wrong person or think they have something that they don't and are unwilling to walk away though. As with anything in life you have to be willing to walk if things aren't going your way. Job, relationships, it doesn't matter if you aren't willing to try something else then you're just a stick in the mud.

[Kamille]

Yeah usually they like the wrong person or think they have something that they don't and are unwilling to walk away though. As with anything in life you have to be willing to walk if things aren't going your way. Job, relationships, it doesn't matter if you aren't willing to try something else then you're just a stick in the mud.

 

I agree. But when is the point when you decide someone is worthy of commitment, ie, that you will communicate your needs to that person and be willing to compromise?

[joystickd]

I agree. But when is the point when you decide someone is worthy of commitment, ie, that you will communicate your needs to that person and be willing to compromise?

Compromise. Is anyone willing to do that these days?

[hppr]

I agree. But when is the point when you decide someone is worthy of commitment, ie, that you will communicate your needs to that person and be willing to compromise?

 

For me after 3-4 dates I have a pretty good idea if she's what I want or not. But I guess it is different for everyone.

[Kamille]

Compromise. Is anyone willing to do that these days?

 

We compromise all the time, don't we? With friends, family and colleagues we find ways to communicate our needs and to compromise on what we can. And what's more, we generally do so happily and willingly with the people we love and trust (friend, family and if lucky co-workers). Deep down it's because we know they also generally wish us well.

 

For me after 3-4 dates I have a pretty good idea if she's what I want or not. But I guess it is different for everyone.

 

What is it that you know? What is that you pay attention to? That you two communicate well? That you two are attracted to each other? That you two want the same things? Or?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I can't believe this.

 

Dude from this post just called me (we went out on Thursday night). He asked me out again for tomorrow night like everything was great. Does he really have no idea how he acted?

 

Wow some people

 

Oh come on. You know that's your fault. The rest of us wimminz share the responsibility with you, though. You're not alone.

[hppr]

What is it that you know? What is that you pay attention to? That you two communicate well? That you two are attracted to each other? That you two want the same things? Or?

 

Attraction, character, shared values and some sort of drive.

[iris219]

People get into awesome relationships everyday. There are tons of good men and women out there. I agree with many that OLD like its a sport is probably a terrible idea and perhaps why you meet so many weirdos/asses.

 

If I remember correctly you typically meet the guys quite quickly? Maybe spend more time talking before you meet them and you could weed out some of the bad seeds? I mean you should have no problem getting a decent guy around 30+....

 

any chance you are coming off as jaded/cynical?

 

I mean mesmerized...very bitter and negative, I would imagine that is why "good guys" aren't attracted.

 

I do not consider myself bitter. I have never done online dating. So why was I meeting undesirable men?

 

Why are lots of women, all over the world, having similar issues with men? Could it be because a lot of men do not treat women well, and the ones who do are snatched up quickly? I definitely think so.