Mme. Chaucer Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Those who give him a reason or at least an incentive to be good to them. The rest keep sitting and complaining. Well, I don't agree with you. First, I think the "goodness" of any person is not dependent upon how other people around him / her are behaving, and if it is, I think that illustrates a tremendously weak person who I'd walk right by, even as a friend. Woman or man. Second, people who get involved with hot messes with a mindset like "the love of a good woman will change him!" are probably hot codependent messes themselves and might do well to go to therapy until they believe that they are worthy of a person who's good anyway, whether she/ he gives them a "reason" to be good or not. Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Really? I am seriously asking: if a person has conducted themselves in questionable or even bad ways in their life they've forever abandoned the right to take a moral stance on anything? Thank goodness everybody doesn't believe that or I would be with a total bottom feeder of a man right now instead of my spectacular (and morally upright) husband. Who … had a serious mistake or two (or four) in his own past as well. ES and I agreed on most points earlier in the thread, some of the evidence of which was deleted because the mods deemed it a threadjack. By bringing it up at this point, all you're really doing is contributing to said threadjack. The thread has moved on; you should too. If you had bothered to read the posts between us that remain, you would have came to the same conclusion. Edited June 28, 2013 by TheBigQuestion Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 As MC pointed out, my early threads were all about angst of being in (one-sided) love with a man that was unavailable. That man was furthest from a-hole you can imagine. He is gentle and kind and has a good heart. As for looks, ahahah. He is not "hot" by any means. He is 10 years older than me, pot bellied, small build, 5'7"-5'8". But he was the hottest man in the world to me. Something else: I definitely made more dating/relationship mistakes when I was younger. I have evolved and learned from them and it's not only that I am not posting them anymore, I rarely make them. I think I have matured a lot since my early threads. So using something I wrote 5 or 7 years ago as evidence of anything is kind of missing the point. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Of course not. That's what's so ****ed about the masculine gender. We are so easily fooled by a pretty face. We have a VERY short leash when it comes to women we find physically appealing. We put up with all sorts of bull**** when it comes to women who are drop dead gorgeous. Luckily, I've managed to pretty much transcend the cycle when it comes to that. A pretty face with a nice figure? Ok, there's a thousand more where those came from. What do you bring to the table? What are your ambitions? What do you value in life? Where do you see yourself in two years? Five? Ten, maybe? What's one thing you could change about the world if you were God? Those are the questions I'd ask if I was dating. I think that I instinctively figured out to not surrender my balls to good looking women pretty early on, and I'm better off for it. I spent most of my adolescence not really getting any female attention, then out of nowhere lucked out and got with a very pretty girl from another town. Yet even back then, I didn't feel like I had ACTUALLY lucked out, or that she was out of my league, or that I was out of my element dating her. Dating a looker so early on made me realize that there is really nothing magical about an extremely good looking woman, and that there are literally millions of other women who possess that same quality. So now, when faced with a good looking woman, I'm not automatically enamored just as a result of her having that quality. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Of course not. That's what's so ****ed about the masculine gender. We are so easily fooled by a pretty face. We have a VERY short leash when it comes to women we find physically appealing. We put up with all sorts of bull**** when it comes to women who are drop dead gorgeous. Luckily, I've managed to pretty much transcend the cycle when it comes to that. A pretty face with a nice figure? Ok, there's a thousand more where those came from. What do you bring to the table? What are your ambitions? What do you value in life? Where do you see yourself in two years? Five? Ten, maybe? What's one thing you could change about the world if you were God? Those are the questions I'd ask if I was dating. I don't go for drop dead gorgeous women. The last woman I was completely smitten with a number of guys who knew us both said she was unattractive. Nevertheless, it was rejection. Link to post Share on other sites
hppr Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Plenty of guys don't go all head over heels just because a girl is pretty. Not every man is owned by his dick some of us have brains too. The biggest problem I have seen with all the people I've known who complained to me about not being able to meet 'good ones,' or 'can't find anyone who stays around' is that they weren't looking for long term in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think good guys are hiding in plain sight. I'd like to think I'm a "good guy." I don't have any trouble meeting girls in general here in New York but I sometimes have some difficulty finding a girl who wants to do more than to play "Sex And The City." A lot of times when girls are attracted to me, I don't feel it's because I'm nice, moral, or polite ("good"), but for more superficial reasons. Here's my nice guy dilemma: When it comes to good guys, their (our) decency and morality, which I think are cornerstones of being "good" aren't very visible traits. Too often they get taken for granted or just go unnoticed or undiscovered. To be noticed for specific things, you need to at times be something of exhibitionist, which is kind of at odds with the persona of good guy. If a guy is constantly showing off or talking about how amazing he is, he's not such a good guy, is he? He's kind of self-absorbed, even if the things he does are good. A lot of the things that I think make me a good catch are the things that I downplay or hide because shouting about them would be contrary to being good. I imagine other guys like me have the same issue, their good-ness needs to be revealed by someone other than themselves. Since this is the anonymous internet, I might as well share some personal details because this topic is pretty relevant to me: - I'm pretty smart, I got my masters degree from a great school when I was 23 - I'm a pretty accomplished musician, I have a few albums out - I'm funny, I won some comedy awards at my school and I've written for TV - I'm a high net worth individual - I volunteer and give money to charity anonymously - I don't use women for sex - I live well below my means and don't drive flashy cars or buy anything unnecessary - I never lie or take advantage of people and I take a stand against others who do it regardless of their relationship to me - I always act with a moral compass - I'm polite to everyone and get satisfaction helping people out and putting them before me - I never tell anyone any of the above That's the thing. I feel like I check a lot of boxes for a lot of people but the very act of broadcasting it would make me seem pompous. I don't do good things or achieve things to wear it as a badge or to qualify myself to women -- I do them because I feel it's the right thing to do or they make me feel good. But a lot of people I know/meet don't even know these things about me. Good Guy Catch 22. So girls, good guys are out there but you have to dig for them. In my opinion, humility and decency are traits you oftentimes have to discover yourself rather than be told about. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
boaaaar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Well, I don't agree with you. First, I think the "goodness" of any person is not dependent upon how other people around him / her are behaving, and if it is, I think that illustrates a tremendously weak person who I'd walk right by, even as a friend. Woman or man. Second, people who get involved with hot messes with a mindset like "the love of a good woman will change him!" are probably hot codependent messes themselves and might do well to go to therapy until they believe that they are worthy of a person who's good anyway, whether she/ he gives them a "reason" to be good or not.Sure, ones "goodness" is not dependant upon how people around him are behaving, but his willingness to show his "goodness" most likely is. Being a good person doesn't equal being good indiscriminately, because that's a recipe for ending on the street while working like a Stakhanov without getting any respect whatsoever. That's just being too good and too stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The idea that good guys are just too boring and unattractive is silly. Would men consider a boring and unattractive woman a good choice? Is it really so difficult to be well groomed, in shape, and have an interesting life to share? Maybe the problem is laziness. The bold part can be difficult especially if one is afraid to step out of the comfort zone. I know with a lot of guys this is the problem not laziness Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have gotten very good at throwing out bad ones. This is something I wasn't doing when I was younger and wasted wayyyyyy too much time. Why does it seem every woman has to be dragged through the mud by jerks, liars, and losers before she's able to see the light?? Why cant women learn from others that have been through it, and just go for a good guy right from the start??? Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why does it seem every woman has to be dragged through the mud by jerks, liars, and losers before she's able to see the light?? Why cant women learn from others that have been through it, and just go for a good guy right from the start??? What a stupid question...Why can't babies walk without falling down, can't they see how adults walk and learn from it? Why can't humans just make no mistake ever and just learn from mistakes others make? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Cal Dude Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why does it seem every woman has to be dragged through the mud by jerks, liars, and losers before she's able to see the light?? Why cant women learn from others that have been through it, and just go for a good guy right from the start??? Same reason guys go through manipulative and game playing women. Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 When it comes to good guys, their (our) decency and morality, which I think are cornerstones of being "good" aren't very visible traits. Too often they get taken for granted or just go unnoticed or undiscovered. That is pretty much hand in hand with the thread I started on here under this same section named "I cant prove my worth". How is a guy supposed to prove that hes a good guy, during that initial moment of interaction with a woman thats looking for one? It's not like we can walk around with a banner of good deeds thats been stamped with a seal of approval. If a woman is looking for a good guy, she needs to give him time to prove it. And from my experience....the better looking a guy is, the less he has to worry about being "good, honest, and respectful". Because women have taught him that they will accept him regardless....based on his looks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Million.to.1 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why cant women learn from others that have been through it, and just go for a good guy right from the start??? Because the biggest jerks PRETEND to be nice guys, and are very practiced at the art. Some men learn how to manipulate woman very easily and it works for them, so they keep doing it and get better at it. When woman say that men are liars or jerks, it means that they have misrepresented themselves early on, only revealing themselves later after getting what they want. (which could be anything from just sex to having someone fall for them that they were never even that into just for the ego burst) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Same reason guys go through manipulative and game playing women. True, its the same reason.....but in my mind...I still dont see why they do it when they know what the odds of the outcome will be. When I was young, I was taught to wear a condom. And I did. So I dont understand why others dont, and get std's or get girls pregnant. When I was young, I was taught not to drink and drive....so I never did. But others do...they get arrested or kill people. I dont understand why they do it. Just because you have a certain number of people doing something that is wrong or a bad decision....doesnt validate that I'm in the wrong for questioning their stupid behavior. Edited June 28, 2013 by MrTurk Link to post Share on other sites
jma500 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 But its also hard to meet men other than online these days. Men don't have the balls to approach. I had a guy from my gym messaging me on OLD to ask me out that way even tho he had been seeing me in the gym lol Its not that men don't have the balls to approach its that after we assess our chances we realize we haven't a snowballs chance in hell. So we don't bother, especially at the gym. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It's a people issue and not a gender issue. We are living in times when people just don't give a damn about anybody but themselves. I actually feel like I am a pariah sometimes because I don't believe in lying and cheating. If you don't treat people as things to be used and discarded people think you are weird. Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 But its also hard to meet men other than online these days. Men don't have the balls to approach. I had a guy from my gym messaging me on OLD to ask me out that way even tho he had been seeing me in the gym lol Thats because women in general....have given us guys the perception that no where and no time is good to approach them. I know 4 women that work out at the same gym as me. And all of them have the same opinion that the gym is the last place they want to be bothered by guys. Mesmerized...just because you have a point of view about something, doesnt mean that the majority is in your favor. Guys are slowly weaning themselves away from approaching women because women are teaching us that they dont want to be bothered 23 hrs and 45 minutes out of the day. Women dont want to be bothered when they are shopping, they dont want to be bothered when they are out the grocery store, they dont want to be bothered when they are pumping gas, they certainly dont want to be bothered if they are out somewhere with their kids in tow. But on a Friday or Saturday night....once the woman is all gussied up....with her makeup(war-paint), her special outfit, her hair done just right, and everything she needs to boost her ego and make herself feel good about how she looks....only then are the guys allowed to look at her. But only if the guy is attractive....less attractive men arent allowed to look. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thats because women in general....have given us guys the perception that no where and no time is good to approach them. I know 4 women that work out at the same gym as me. And all of them have the same opinion that the gym is the last place they want to be bothered by guys. Mesmerized...just because you have a point of view about something, doesnt mean that the majority is in your favor. Guys are slowly weaning themselves away from approaching women because women are teaching us that they dont want to be bothered 23 hrs and 45 minutes out of the day. Women dont want to be bothered when they are shopping, they dont want to be bothered when they are out the grocery store, they dont want to be bothered when they are pumping gas, they certainly dont want to be bothered if they are out somewhere with their kids in tow. But on a Friday or Saturday night....once the woman is all gussied up....with her makeup(war-paint), her special outfit, her hair done just right, and everything she needs to boost her ego and make herself feel good about how she looks....only then are the guys allowed to look at her. But only if the guy is attractive....less attractive men arent allowed to look. This is true. Men these days are constantly lectured about street harassment and sexual harassment and told to leave women alone then are asked why they don't have the balls to approach. It does sound like a lot of women want things both ways sometimes and it confuses the hell out of guys. Many don't know whether they are coming or going with women anymore. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thats because women in general....have given us guys the perception that no where and no time is good to approach them. I know 4 women that work out at the same gym as me. And all of them have the same opinion that the gym is the last place they want to be bothered by guys. Mesmerized...just because you have a point of view about something, doesnt mean that the majority is in your favor. Guys are slowly weaning themselves away from approaching women because women are teaching us that they dont want to be bothered 23 hrs and 45 minutes out of the day. Women dont want to be bothered when they are shopping, they dont want to be bothered when they are out the grocery store, they dont want to be bothered when they are pumping gas, they certainly dont want to be bothered if they are out somewhere with their kids in tow. But on a Friday or Saturday night....once the woman is all gussied up....with her makeup(war-paint), her special outfit, her hair done just right, and everything she needs to boost her ego and make herself feel good about how she looks....only then are the guys allowed to look at her. But only if the guy is attractive....less attractive men arent allowed to look. You're proving her point. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) I can bet any guy on this forum has heard about it one way or another.....about a woman complaining about getting hit on when she's out somewhere. I know women that will throw a ball cap on, tuck their hair up, with sweats on and run to the store real quick.....and b*tch about some guy hitting on here when she looks like crap. Thats how illogical some women are.....that they dont even know how to feel flattered, that guys notice them when they arent all done up. And its this constant illogical from not all women but enough of them, that persuades guys to change their own behaviors. Its not that men dont have the balls....its the men are starting to realize the investment isnt worth the risk and reward. Or dare I say lack of reward Edited June 28, 2013 by MrTurk Link to post Share on other sites
nerd Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Women should grow the ovaries to approach. Try it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I can bet any guy on this forum has heard about it one way or another.....about a woman complaining about getting hit on when she's out somewhere. I know women that will throw a ball cap on, tuck their hair up, with sweats on and run to the store real quick.....and b*tch about some guy hitting on here when she looks like crap. Thats how illogical some women are.....that they dont even know how to feel flattered, that guys notice them when they arent all done up. And its this constant illogical from not all women but enough of them, that persuades guys to change their own behaviors. Its not that men dont have the balls....its the men are starting to realize the investment isnt worth the risk and reward. Or dare I say lack of reward WOW you talking about "illogical" cracks me up. Your posts are so clueless it's funny. Look, it's VERY simple. We don't care where we are, if a man we find attractive approaches us in a non-creepy way we like it, period. If a man we don't find attractive approaches us, we usually wouldn't be too thrilled about it, again the location doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with how dolled up we are. The fact that you think it has again speaks of your lack of knowledge on women. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Cal Dude Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I can bet any guy on this forum has heard about it one way or another.....about a woman complaining about getting hit on when she's out somewhere. I know women that will throw a ball cap on, tuck their hair up, with sweats on and run to the store real quick.....and b*tch about some guy hitting on here when she looks like crap. Thats how illogical some women are.....that they dont even know how to feel flattered, that guys notice them when they arent all done up. And its this constant illogical from not all women but enough of them, that persuades guys to change their own behaviors. Its not that men dont have the balls....its the men are starting to realize the investment isnt worth the risk and reward. Or dare I say lack of reward It's that they aren't being approached by the guys they find attractive. Big difference. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrTurk Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 It's that they aren't being approached by the guys they find attractive. Big difference. lol yea thats a part of it as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts