Do most women follow these outdated 'dating rules'?

[crude]

Yep. It's all about who can show the least amount of interest so you don't seem "desperate".

 

 

The mere fact that a woman puts herself on display and is willing to go out with a complete stranger shows how desperate she really is. She doesn't know if he's married, acting on a bet that he can get her, or a serial killer, as long as he approaches her and asks her out, it's all good.

And I love the rule that says the woman has to hang up first.

[ltjg45]

Not really. Even in 2013. Not if she wants to remain acceptable to mainstream society.

 

lol @ "remain acceptable to mainstream society".

 

That is the reason why relationships down here in the U.S. is pretty terrible.

 

This is why I only approach a woman when I have enough interest to do so and anyone else will have to catch my attention instead. I would tell the same thing to anyone else that asks me, man or woman.

[Mrlonelyone]

Folks I never read or bought one of those books. However, I know the contents because they are all the same. An often quoted one is "He's just not that into you" and I think it's called the "system". One talks of percentages of interest and being a challenge. The other talks about not acting desperate for the man an if he doesn't chase you like a mad stalker then he's just not into you.

 

As for not playing mind games. There is an old saying, the more someone says they don't want drama the more drama their will be. (IME women who say that act all kinds of ways that would hurt the feelings of men around them, but think that men don't have the same emotions as them.)

 

Why people play these mind games...they don't want to get hurt. They also don't always know what they want. Then of course there are men and women who get off on the drama.

[Shaun-Dro]

I was just at the bookstore and I was browsing in the relationship section. I saw a title professing to offer the 'secrets to successful dating for women' and out of curiosity I flicked through it.

 

I was saddened and appalled by what I read in it. It offered ridiculous outdated advice such as 'NEVER make the first move, EVER' and 'NEVER speak to a guy first' and 'always appear disinterested on your first few dates' and 'always wait at least two hours before responding to his messages' and so on.

 

I looked for the date of publication, convinced that such outdated garbage must have been published in the 1950s, but nope... This book was PUBLISHED IN 2012!!!

 

This makes me so sad! For all the efforts that the women's rights and feminist movements did in the 60s and 70s to convince men that WOMEN ARE EQUAL TO THEM, yo still have outdated sexist tripe like this, playing t the mot outdated stereotypes about dating.

 

This is 2013, a WOMAN IS ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO A GUY FIRST and by God, EVEN MAKE THE FIRST MOVE IF SHE WANTS TO!!

 

And yet when I think of it several women I have dated have been like this and I just gave up on them... I am not going to jump through hoops for a woman who only seems half-heartedly interested in me. I just gave up on them and their mind games and when I told my friends about what happened, they sa that maybe she was interested but just playing 'hard to get'. If so, then it is her loss.

 

I am not going to go to miles of effort for a woman who seems to only begrudgingly be with me, and I have heard many guys say the same thing.

 

How, in 2013, on earth can women still be offered this outdated, offensive, steretypical tripe as 'dating rules'? And any women who follow it, well I take it you don't work and instead stay in the kitchen all day? Since you follow outdated models of advice for dating, I take it you also believe other outdated offensive crap like 'a woman's place is in the kitchen'?

 

Seriously.... Do women STILL adhere to this outdated garbage?

 

Women only want equality when it benefits them. Other than that, they're holding on to outdated roles to protect themselves from risks. Go figure.

[HokeyReligions]

There are all types of people. To so heavily criticize a dating style or type of person because you don't agree would be the biggest red flag to me and to many women and men. So what if you don't like it - others do and if their styles are aligned who are you to say their wrong?

 

BTW. When I waS dating and in my moms generation too, women initiated contact too and were often assertive. Their / my assertiveness was less obvious at times but then again we attempted to judge the type of man we were interested in and adjusted our approach appropriately. And if we judged a man to be overly dominate, or as we might say today, a control freak, we wouldn't pursue. If we liked that type we would pursue in a different manner.

 

People have been having sex outside of marriage since people and marriage have been around. There have been many times in history and throughout the world when this was an accepted societal norm.

 

To spew such hatred and disgust for people who don't believe exactly as you is something I find distasteful. You are freely allowed your opinion just as others are. To assume what works for you is the only way sounds like a 14 year old who thinks they know everything.

 

Dating is about fun, including sex if that is what you want. If your partner is not compatible with you it doesn't make them wrong period. It makes you both wrong for each other. Trying to force a relationship in spite of fundamental differences is doomed to fail. But it doesn't mean each person should come away from the experience bitter and angry. Hopefully each person can come away from it having learned more about themselves and what they are looking for. People change too and over time our priorities and what we want change too. Sadly for many those changes can become opposite and breakups are painful. Life is a learning experience about ourselves. If I found myself single now my criteria would be very different from what it was. My husband and I have had our share of changing feelings and priorities over the years and we communicate and work our relationship constantly. I don't disrespect those whose dating style and preferences differ from mine. I never have. I've been hurt and dissapointed before too when I rwally limed someone or even loved them and gave them a part of myself only out find out later that we had differences that were not compatible - not because I didn't recognize it in him but because I was learning about myself.

 

The best lesson I learned as I matured and my dating experience grew is that I can't be angry at someone for not being like I wanted them to be.

 

And that is the core of problem solving FOR ME. It doesn't work for everyone. That said if I'm looking for self improvement books or books to help me in dating or relationships I'm going to look for one that addresses MY style and beliefs and preferences and shelve the others.

 

There is room for all types of people and books to match. LS is a good example.

[veggirl]

I've never met a girl who follows rules like that to a T.

 

In my current relationship, I am the one who initiated conversation with my now bf. Now would I have asked him on the first date? No...and that's because I want a man who is confident in going after what he wants. And you know what if he wants a girl who is aggressive in going after him and asking him out then that's fine but we wouldn't have worked because I'm not that type of girl. I know plenty of girls who will ask guys out...it might be in a more passive way "we should hang out sometime" but still.

 

I think those rules are more about not coming off as desperate, not being clingy and not throwing yourself into a situation before you even know if it's worth it. If you cut through the BS and details, I think that is the general theme. And I agree with all of that. It's about living your own life and letting a man (or woman) compliment it rather than BECOME it right off the bat.

[Ripnet]

Eh, if any adult wants to let a book written by another human being dictate black-and-white 'rules' for how they choose to conduct themselves in interpersonal relationships, without giving any thought as to the merit of the advice... the problem lies with them. Not really with the author of the book, who more than likely is just out to make a quick buck (and probably succeeded).

 

It's not exactly a gender-specific issue either. Honestly, have you seen half of the garbage being spouted at men containing arbitrary rules about how to be 'successful' with women? Same crap, different name... A name quite commonly used around LS, in fact.

 

 

I see rules all the time. If someone does this or doesn't do this then do that. We all have rules. If certain conditions are met then follow this rule. We sometimes unconsciously follow society's rules. I remember one lady stated a guy asked her to plan a date. What did some of the women say? Cancel the date he's not interested. That's a rule. Yet several men proved otherwise.

 

Every book is valuable if you learn even one thing from it. Cosmo lists many rules for women. I used to read these magazine purely out of curiosity. I can assure you many women follow these women's magazine. Following their rules which maybe not accurate at all.

[TheGuard13]

I read The Rules when I started dating a new girl, and she explained that from her perspective, it's to keep her from getting hurt, because she had been hurt badly in earlier relationships and needed to stop making emotional decisions early on. It seems to me that mant of the "rules"some women have are just that, designed to protect them, to keep them from getting invested before they really know what they're dealing with. To introduce logic into an often emotional situation. The problem is that people don't so much view it that way, as they view it as some kind of "game" they're supposed to play. Which is why men call this kind of stuff games...because that's how we often perceive it.

 

That said, anyone who does things that are counterproductive because a book says so? Yeah, I don't blame the book for someone's actions. Books like this haven't ruined dating. People incapable of taking charge of their own lives and actions have, if anything. Not that I think dating is ruined, mind you.

[Ripnet]

I read The Rules when I started dating a new girl, and she explained that from her perspective, it's to keep her from getting hurt, because she had been hurt badly in earlier relationships and needed to stop making emotional decisions early on. It seems to me that mant of the "rules"some women have are just that, designed to protect them, to keep them from getting invested before they really know what they're dealing with. To introduce logic into an often emotional situation. The problem is that people don't so much view it that way, as they view it as some kind of "game" they're supposed to play. Which is why men call this kind of stuff games...because that's how we often perceive it.

 

.

 

 

Men get hurt badly also. If someone doesn't want to get hurt then stop dating. There's plenty of people will date one after another. Relationship after another.

[MrTurk]

This is 2013, a WOMAN IS ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO A GUY FIRST and by God, EVEN MAKE THE FIRST MOVE IF SHE WANTS TO!!

 

 

Not in the reality I live in. I wish my experiences were different, but sadly it still feels like its 1950.

[MrTurk]

 

In my current relationship, I am the one who initiated conversation with my now bf. Now would I have asked him on the first date? No...and that's because I want a man who is confident in going after what he wants.

 

THAT type of thinking is what causes so many problems in the dating world. JUST because a guy doesnt go after you, or pursue you doesnt mean he's NOT confident.

 

I am so damn sick and tired of women implying that over and over and over. They act like they KNOW 110% and that their little tests and games give them the information without asking.

[KungFuJoe]

Something tells me this book doesn't exist and op is just making it all up.

[TheGuard13]

Men get hurt badly also. If someone doesn't want to get hurt then stop dating. There's plenty of people will date one after another. Relationship after another.

 

True, and guys have their own set of "rules" to avoid getting hurt, some of which overlap with the ones girls have.

 

It's kind of funny. This girl and I, earlier in the week, finally said "I love you" to each other. Her rationale for waiting? "Girls always wait for the guy to say it first". Guess what rule guys have about that?

[Woggle]

Something tells me this book doesn't exist and op is just making it all up.

 

The Rules and why Men marry Bitches very much do exist.

[Southern Cal Dude]

Books like those make good reading material on the toilet. I have to question the intelligence of those who actually the follow the advice given in those books. The authors wrote them to make money, not to genuinely help you.

[KungFuJoe]

The Rules and why Men marry Bitches very much do exist.

 

I feel dumber just from knowing that.

[MissBee]

I was just at the bookstore and I was browsing in the relationship section. I saw a title professing to offer the 'secrets to successful dating for women' and out of curiosity I flicked through it.

 

I was saddened and appalled by what I read in it. It offered ridiculous outdated advice such as 'NEVER make the first move, EVER' and 'NEVER speak to a guy first' and 'always appear disinterested on your first few dates' and 'always wait at least two hours before responding to his messages' and so on.

 

I looked for the date of publication, convinced that such outdated garbage must have been published in the 1950s, but nope... This book was PUBLISHED IN 2012!!!

 

This makes me so sad! For all the efforts that the women's rights and feminist movements did in the 60s and 70s to convince men that WOMEN ARE EQUAL TO THEM, yo still have outdated sexist tripe like this, playing t the mot outdated stereotypes about dating.

 

This is 2013, a WOMAN IS ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO A GUY FIRST and by God, EVEN MAKE THE FIRST MOVE IF SHE WANTS TO!!

 

And yet when I think of it several women I have dated have been like this and I just gave up on them... I am not going to jump through hoops for a woman who only seems half-heartedly interested in me. I just gave up on them and their mind games and when I told my friends about what happened, they sa that maybe she was interested but just playing 'hard to get'. If so, then it is her loss.

 

I am not going to go to miles of effort for a woman who seems to only begrudgingly be with me, and I have heard many guys say the same thing.

 

How, in 2013, on earth can women still be offered this outdated, offensive, steretypical tripe as 'dating rules'? And any women who follow it, well I take it you don't work and instead stay in the kitchen all day? Since you follow outdated models of advice for dating, I take it you also believe other outdated offensive crap like 'a woman's place is in the kitchen'?

 

Seriously.... Do women STILL adhere to this outdated garbage?

 

Some women still do, a lot probably, and for some it apparently "works", to a degree.

 

In terms of me and my own circle of friends, I don't think we follow these rules.

 

I have my guidelines for how I proceed in dating, based on what I want and need and what makes sense to me, but I don't adhere to a manual about it and don't just blindly follow any book of "guaranteed rules."

 

In reality, one shouldn't have to play hard to get. I think one is either actually hard to get, i.e. a woman of value who has standards and acts accordingly, versus girls who have no such handle on themselves so need to follow weird rules like never talking to a man first, don't answer his calls except on the full moon etc, to appear as though they do. In reality, I think what those books are trying to do, but the concept is lost, is to say as a woman you need to have a life, don't make a man your whole world, don't just sit by phones waiting for him and doodling about your wedding, live your life, be a normal, interesting person, show interest but don't chase men. I think though instead of advising this in a healthy way, it doesn't actually address how you can be a woman who is worth getting and who has a handle on herself, but instead provides 1-2-3 steps to follow to seem like it.

 

Self-assured women who have a lot going for them and have standards about what they want from a man and what they will and won't accept exude this and can initiate a conversation or invite a man out without it being the kiss of death. Such a woman isn't worried about seeming a certain way or making sure she is following artificial rules but can genuinely show interest and a man either takes it or leave it. I think if you're more insecure and overly worried about getting a man, you will cling to these artificial rules and really play these mind games about how you can act aloof and act this way or that way to make a man want you...and I think men can tell the difference. You can't fake being self-assured and confident.

Edited June 30, 2013 by MissBee

[phineas]

I've never met a girl who follows rules like that to a T.

 

In my current relationship, I am the one who initiated conversation with my now bf. Now would I have asked him on the first date? No...and that's because I want a man who is confident in going after what he wants. And you know what if he wants a girl who is aggressive in going after him and asking him out then that's fine but we wouldn't have worked because I'm not that type of girl. I know plenty of girls who will ask guys out...it might be in a more passive way "we should hang out sometime" but still.

 

I think those rules are more about not coming off as desperate, not being clingy and not throwing yourself into a situation before you even know if it's worth it. If you cut through the BS and details, I think that is the general theme. And I agree with all of that. It's about living your own life and letting a man (or woman) compliment it rather than BECOME it right off the bat.

 

While I know that you are not saying "when a woman initiates conversation with a man it means she wants him to ask her out"

 

It can very easily be misconstrued that way.

 

I see a lot of women who are supposedly into a guy but completely ignore him in social situations while they approach & chat with a bunch of other guys she doesn't have an interest in.

 

How the hell is the poor guy supposed to know a woman likes him when she acts like she doesn't like him?

 

I personally can't be bothered with women like that and the guys I know who aren't desperate for a woman can't be bothered with it either.

[Southern Cal Dude]

While I know that you are not saying "when a woman initiates conversation with a man it means she wants him to ask her out"

 

It can very easily be misconstrued that way.

 

I see a lot of women who are supposedly into a guy but completely ignore him in social situations while they approach & chat with a bunch of other guys she doesn't have an interest in.

 

How the hell is the poor guy supposed to know a woman likes him when she acts like she doesn't like him?

 

I personally can't be bothered with women like that and the guys I know who aren't desperate for a woman can't be bothered with it either.

 

 

Yep. I've had that done to me. Then her friend(s) want to know why I didn't do anything. Um, she ignored me while talking to everyone else. Tell her to get over herself.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I was just at the bookstore and I was browsing in the relationship section. I saw a title professing to offer the 'secrets to successful dating for women' and out of curiosity I flicked through it.

 

I was saddened and appalled by what I read in it. It offered ridiculous outdated advice such as 'NEVER make the first move, EVER' and 'NEVER speak to a guy first' and 'always appear disinterested on your first few dates' and 'always wait at least two hours before responding to his messages' and so on.

 

I looked for the date of publication, convinced that such outdated garbage must have been published in the 1950s, but nope... This book was PUBLISHED IN 2012!!!

 

I was actually thinking before I got to this part, "It's probably an older book, it must be." Good lord, it sounds like whoever wrote it wasn't actually offering new, fresh ideas, but just recycling old garbage.

 

This makes me so sad! For all the efforts that the women's rights and feminist

movements did in the 60s and 70s to convince men that WOMEN ARE EQUAL TO THEM,

you still have outdated sexist tripe like this, playing to the most outdated

stereotypes about dating.

 

It would sure explain why, despite all the progress that has been made, we're still not where we should be.

 

This is 2013, a WOMAN IS ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO A GUY FIRST and by God, EVEN MAKE

THE FIRST MOVE IF SHE WANTS TO!!

 

Fully agreed. I've never really liked all this gender-role bullsh*t. It's insulting to both men and women alike, and makes them believe there are limitations, just because of their sex. While there are certainly some limitations (a woman is not going to have an easy time peeing standing up, and a man physically does not have the necessary body parts to undergo birthing), limitations based on our capabilities and our personalities is a ridiculous concept.

 

And yet when I think of it several women I have dated have been like this and I

just gave up on them... I am not going to jump through hoops for a woman who

only seems half-heartedly interested in me.

 

As well you shouldn't. If we are truly to be equal, you shouldn't be made to feel like a trick pony, anymore than they should feel like they cannot openly initiate more with you.

 

 

I am not going to go to miles of effort for a woman who seems to only

begrudgingly be with me, and I have heard many guys say the same thing.

 

Kudos. It's a show of self-respect, that you won't put up with such silly games.

 

How, in 2013, on earth can women still be offered this outdated, offensive,

steretypical tripe as 'dating rules'? And any women who follow it, well I take

it you don't work and instead stay in the kitchen all day? Since you follow

outdated models of advice for dating, I take it you also believe other outdated

offensive crap like 'a woman's place is in the kitchen'?

 

I'm definitely not one of those, lol. I enjoy thinking outside the box. A relationship should be built on compromising between both partners, in which they set the parameters of who does what. I'm in favour of sharing responsibilities; financially, child-rearing, and house-hold chores. There are certain chores I do more than my husband, and there are tasks he fulfills more than I. However, we both know the other is capable of doing both, and like to switch it up, from time to time.

 

Seriously.... Do women STILL adhere to this outdated garbage?

 

I'd like to say, "No, certainly none of them are this naïve?" But I know that there are likely to still be some. *Shudders* It really makes you weep for humanity sometimes, doesn't it?

[tbf]

I suspect this is the source of much sexual dissatisfaction of the modern single lady, who's so horny she's running across the street to Walgreens to buy more batteries twice a week, but is unable to pick up men despite social conventions that men are "easy" to bed

Actually, getting sex is very, very easy.

[veggirl]

THAT type of thinking is what causes so many problems in the dating world. JUST because a guy doesnt go after you, or pursue you doesnt mean he's NOT confident.

 

I am so damn sick and tired of women implying that over and over and over. They act like they KNOW 110% and that their little tests and games give them the information without asking.

 

It's not a test. I want a man who is confident enough to ask me out, outgoing enough to ask me, extroverted enough...etc. I don't want a shy wall-flower, sorry.

 

and you're really telling me that a guy who IS confident would for some reason still be too scared to ask me out if he is interested?

 

um no that makes no sense dude.

[Taramere]

Seriously.... Do women STILL adhere to this outdated garbage?

 

I read the Rules about 12 years ago. I can't really remember much about them other than that the creature unlike any other they kept banging on about called to mind a Stepford Wife who'd been programmed not to accept invitations after Wednesday.

 

Some of it was stuff I already did, but generally the book didn't seem to leave much room for readers to demonstrate a personality. I remember it kept protesting that you could still have a personality while following the Rules rigidly, but that seemed like wishful thinking on the writers' part (or an attempt to deny the obvious weaknesses of their teaching) more than anything else. I suppose that following the Rules could weed out wrong guys early on - but it would possibly weed out quite a lot of good ones too.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Taramere

[irc333]

Funny, how we have chapters and chapters of these books by David DeAngelo and other authors on how to win over a woman.

 

Yet, if you ask a married man on how they acquired their wife, they just shrugged their shoulders or would say, "I saw her at a friends house, we talked, liked each other....and the rest is history."

 

They never get into the particulars because apparently they're so content in their marriage, they blank out any anxiety had when trying to get her to go out with him. LOL

[tbf]

They never get into the particulars because apparently they're so content in their marriage, they blank out any anxiety had when trying to get her to go out with him. LOL

Or maybe they're not anxiety driven men? These guys exist, perhaps outside your personal frame of reference but they do.