Being Ok with being an OW

[whycan'tI]

Thank you for all the responses. There are so many I'm not sure how to respond. It's probably helpful, to me anyway, if someone could define feelings for me. As for MM I am sure there are some type of feelings but they are not of a romantic sort.

Yes I could find a single fwb but again feelings would develop. The fact that I know at the end of the day I am not a top priority and I am honestly ok with that. I think everyone needs different things out of life and right now being in this situation is fine with me. Being a BS has changed my opinion on monotony, cultural expectations, and love. Sadly I do not think of the MM wife, if she looked closely enough she would see the signs.

 

Monogomy I mean.

[LilGirlandOW]

I Pierre's brutal honesty and wise words

[whycan'tI]

You are afraid of rejection. You are afraid of a truly single person who might consider you for his true other half. This MM doesn't have to commit to you, you are giving everything and taking very little, so he won't reject you. It's safer than putting yourself out there for real.

 

Yes I flat out have no desire, none, to be rejected. And yes we are mutually exclusive with the sex. And before someone says but he is cheating I will say I believe him if I didn't believe him I wouldn't stick around. He has no reason to lie. I'm not sure how I'm giving everything and taking very little. Sexually my needs are met, so I believe I am taking what I need and giving him so little. The notion that female sexuality is a prize but male sexuality is nothing special is a bizarre notion. I think women get their hearts broken because they are in an affair and sex equals love and bam now they are in love with someone who is just looking for sex. I maintain perspective so feelings dont develop.

[whycan'tI]

Wow....who cares who she hurts in the process. That is just sick and sad all at the same time to me.

 

Why is it sick? She didn't force a MM to have sex with her. Why blame the OW? The MM stepped out on the M the OW isn't the morality police that is the MM responsibility.

[sweet_pea]

Why is it sick? She didn't force a MM to have sex with her. Why blame the OW? The MM stepped out on the M the OW isn't the morality police that is the MM responsibility.

 

Where exactly is she blaming the OW? No one forced that OW to only sleep with MM and accept their gifts. All UW is saying is that it's sad that a woman is pretty much using MM, regardless of who it hurts. I find it sick that BOTH the MM and OW do what they want regardless of who it hurts. I always find it sad when some OW feel like they shouldn't have any accoutability/responsibility for their actions.

 

You do know that there are plenty of older, available men who want to have FWB relationships without developing feelings and without hurting others/being selfish, right?

[HopingAgain]

I had a friend years back, whose husband had an affair and left her. She was so crushed, and eventually she started dating married men exclusively. She sought out MM to sleep with, and her rationale was that some other woman out there didn't care about her, so she wouldn't care about other wives when sleeping with their husbands.

 

Everytime I see stories about former BSs who later become OW, I wonder if that dynamic is at play...

[HopingAgain]

Where exactly is she blaming the OW? No one forced that OW to only sleep with MM and accept their gifts. All UW is saying is that it's sad that a woman is pretty much using MM, regardless of who it hurts. I find it sick that BOTH the MM and OW do what they want regardless of who it hurts. I always find it sad when some OW feel like they shouldn't have any accoutability/responsibility for their actions.

 

You do know that there are plenty of older, available men who want to have FWB relationships without developing feelings and without hurting others/being selfish, right?

 

Exactly! But some OW who've been hurt in relationships get off on hurting other wives or girlfriends. Its a strange form of revenge it seems. Unfortunately its on innocent and unsuspecting people!

[whycan'tI]

Wow....who cares who she hurts in the process. That is just sick and sad all at the same time to me.

 

I had a friend years back, whose husband had an affair and left her. She was so crushed, and eventually she started dating married men exclusively. She sought out MM to sleep with, and her rationale was that some other woman out there didn't care about her, so she wouldn't care about other wives when sleeping with their husbands.

 

Everytime I see stories about former BSs who later become OW, I wonder if that dynamic is at play...

 

It might be. In my situation I'm not trying to seek revenge on other women. Promise. My husband by the time he got around to cheating I was already out the door. I'm thankful for the OW my divorce happened quicker since it gave him a reason to leave. I am sorry to all the BS on here that I don't take feel bad about the wife. I just don't. If he was in love with me I would have guilt but what we do is sex and the wife doesn't do that.

[underwater2010]

Why is it sick? She didn't force a MM to have sex with her. Why blame the OW? The MM stepped out on the M the OW isn't the morality police that is the MM responsibility.

Says the every OW/MOW that screws a MM. Yet watch that OW/MOW turn around and look for support upon DDay because she is now used/abused.

 

The MOW/OW is what makes an affair possible. I understand the concept of...if it wasn't me it would be someone else.

 

What I don't understand is another persons disregard for the well being of others, even a stranger. Maybe that is my naïve and kind nature, but other people should be considered in your (generalized) actions.

 

I also don't get the jaded previously married thing. Or it could be that I am not a selfish as some people are. Either way her actions make me sick to my stomach.

[underwater2010]

It might be. In my situation I'm not trying to seek revenge on other women. Promise. My husband by the time he got around to cheating I was already out the door. I'm thankful for the OW my divorce happened quicker since it gave him a reason to leave. I am sorry to all the BS on here that I don't take feel bad about the wife. I just don't. If he was in love with me I would have guilt but what we do is sex and the wife doesn't do that.

Good for you that you can live your life so callously. What if his wife was your friend? Would that matter? Or how about a your MM being a spouse to a family matter? Would that matter? Or does love conquer all in that case?

[underwater2010]

Sorry, I just realized you said it wasn't about love.....so answer the question with it just being about sex.

[KathyM]

I had a friend years back, whose husband had an affair and left her. She was so crushed, and eventually she started dating married men exclusively. She sought out MM to sleep with, and her rationale was that some other woman out there didn't care about her, so she wouldn't care about other wives when sleeping with their husbands.

 

Everytime I see stories about former BSs who later become OW, I wonder if that dynamic is at play...

Yes, I think that's often the case. I also know a woman who was cheated on by her husband multiple times. She became an OW to MM and seemed to lose all conscience about it. She used to be very much against affairs, but it's like she no longer cared about the consequences to the BSs because she was desensitized to the pain and could no longer empathize.

[spice4life]

To the OP. No, I would never be satisfied being someone's "casual friend." If that is what they wanted then they need to keep moving right along away from me. I would rather wait until I met someone who is nice match for me as a partner. No need to settle for less. That's for sure.

[Got it]

Says the every OW/MOW that screws a MM. Yet watch that OW/MOW turn around and look for support upon DDay because she is now used/abused.

 

The MOW/OW is what makes an affair possible. I understand the concept of...if it wasn't me it would be someone else.

 

What I don't understand is another persons disregard for the well being of others, even a stranger. Maybe that is my naïve and kind nature, but other people should be considered in your (generalized) actions.

 

I also don't get the jaded previously married thing. Or it could be that I am not a selfish as some people are. Either way her actions make me sick to my stomach.

 

So it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor and control the temptations and actions of others? Don't we start teaching our children as toddlers that "he made me do it" is a poor and worthless excuse?

 

Sorry, as a previous WS, I don't feel that there is any responsibility towards my actions but my own. I own my decisions and I own my stepping out and it was not MM or anyone's responsibility for my actions but my own.

 

And this BS line of some responsibility towards strangers. Where exactly does human nature show much care of strangers? This idea is right up with this secret sisterhood that gets trodded out. Not sure where this Sisterhood is in any other part of my life but I guess we are supposed to unite together to protect our men!

 

And how dare an OW come to an OW/OM forum and look for support. Damn their selfishness and lack of consideration.

 

The cheating spouse is whom makes the affair possible. Period. Without THEM no amount of temptation will matter.

[ComingInHot]

Got It, you okay today?

That last post really surprised me. It doesn't sound like you really...

When you re-read your last post, do you interpret it as I do? It comes across very solitary and lonely.

I hope you're alright got it*

[canuckprincess]

So it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor and control the temptations and actions of others? Don't we start teaching our children as toddlers that "he made me do it" is a poor and worthless excuse?

 

Sorry, as a previous WS, I don't feel that there is any responsibility towards my actions but my own. I own my decisions and I own my stepping out and it was not MM or anyone's responsibility for my actions but my own.

 

And this BS line of some responsibility towards strangers. Where exactly does human nature show much care of strangers? This idea is right up with this secret sisterhood that gets trodded out. Not sure where this Sisterhood is in any other part of my life but I guess we are supposed to unite together to protect our men!

 

And how dare an OW come to an OW/OM forum and look for support. Damn their selfishness and lack of consideration.

 

The cheating spouse is whom makes the affair possible. Period. Without THEM no amount of temptation will matter.

 

Well said! As a ow I thank you for your post.

[HopingAgain]

So it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor and control the temptations and actions of others? Don't we start teaching our children as toddlers that "he made me do it" is a poor and worthless excuse?

 

Sorry, as a previous WS, I don't feel that there is any responsibility towards my actions but my own. I own my decisions and I own my stepping out and it was not MM or anyone's responsibility for my actions but my own.

 

And this BS line of some responsibility towards strangers. Where exactly does human nature show much care of strangers? This idea is right up with this secret sisterhood that gets trodded out. Not sure where this Sisterhood is in any other part of my life but I guess we are supposed to unite together to protect our men!

 

And how dare an OW come to an OW/OM forum and look for support. Damn their selfishness and lack of consideration.

 

The cheating spouse is whom makes the affair possible. Period. Without THEM no amount of temptation will matter.

 

A cheating spouse also needs a willing accomplice. There are plenty of people who don't give a damn about others as long as they are "strangers" as you've so kindly pointed out in your post.

[underwater2010]

So it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor and control the temptations and actions of others?

 

No....it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor their own actions. And that should absolutely include do no harm to others whenever possible.

 

And having a relationship with another's spouse cause harm as we have all read about. And yet time and time again we read about how much it does not matter as long as you and your AP get what you want.

 

Don't we start teaching our children as toddlers that "he made me do it" is a poor and worthless excuse?

 

Yep and I do not accept it as an excuse for adults...so why would I accept it here from either the MM/MW or their AP?

 

Sorry, as a previous WS, I don't feel that there is any responsibility towards my actions but my own. I own my decisions and I own my stepping out and it was not MM or anyone's responsibility for my actions but my own.

 

And you should not put the blame on anyone but yourself otherwise you would be lying to yourself. But just so we are clear the MOW/OW/OM/MOM deserves blame for their actions against the BS also.

 

And this BS line of some responsibility towards strangers. Where exactly does human nature show much care of strangers?

 

You see it when people feed the homeless, help a stranger change a flat tire, opens their house in a time of disaster, etc. It is only called Bullcrap by those unwilling to go the extra mile or take time to think about what their actions may or may not do to someone else.

 

This idea is right up with this secret sisterhood that gets trodded out. Not sure where this Sisterhood is in any other part of my life but I guess we are supposed to unite together to protect our men!

 

I never asked for a sisterhood....in fact you could hate my guts for all I care. I just ask that you stick to men that are available. (All generalized not thrown at you in particular)

 

And how dare an OW come to an OW/OM forum and look for support. Damn their selfishness and lack of consideration.

 

I never said that it was wrong for an OW/MOW/OM/MOM to look for support here, just that OW/MOW/OM/MOM brought that pain on them self. Yet spout how abused/hurt they are after they carry on with a married person.

 

The cheating spouse is whom makes the affair possible. Period. Without THEM no amount of temptation will matter.

 

Feel free to disagree with me. I really don't care. Affair are made possible by both sides...not just one. You cannot have one without the other. But that is the beauty of this whole issue isn't it. When the crap hits the fan....blame the spouse completely and play the victim. You can even lay blame on the BS from messing up the marriage in the first place. But never, never accept any of the blame on yourself with engaging with a WS.

[Got it]

Got It, you okay today?

That last post really surprised me. It doesn't sound like you really...

When you re-read your last post, do you interpret it as I do? It comes across very solitary and lonely.

I hope you're alright got it*

 

Of course. I was in a rush when I was writing it though a we had a slumber party of teenage boys here that needed prepping.

 

Sorry but I really disagree with this idea that without an OP there would be no cheating. It reeks of women needing to corral men and it does not focus on the full ownership of the WS.

 

If one wants to cheat they will find a way. It is not the responsibility of another person to own or be responsible for the actions of others.

 

And I do not understand the Sisterhood ideal but I have vented on that in the past as well. Sorry but it is baloney and does not play out anywhere else that I have ever seen.

[Got it]

So it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor and control the temptations and actions of others?

 

No....it is everyone else's responsibility to monitor their own actions. And that should absolutely include do no harm to others whenever possible.

 

And having a relationship with another's spouse cause harm as we have all read about. And yet time and time again we read about how much it does not matter as long as you and your AP get what you want.

 

Don't we start teaching our children as toddlers that "he made me do it" is a poor and worthless excuse?

 

Yep and I do not accept it as an excuse for adults...so why would I accept it here from either the MM/MW or their AP?

 

Sorry, as a previous WS, I don't feel that there is any responsibility towards my actions but my own. I own my decisions and I own my stepping out and it was not MM or anyone's responsibility for my actions but my own.

 

And you should not put the blame on anyone but yourself otherwise you would be lying to yourself. But just so we are clear the MOW/OW/OM/MOM deserves blame for their actions against the BS also.

 

And this BS line of some responsibility towards strangers. Where exactly does human nature show much care of strangers?

 

You see it when people feed the homeless, help a stranger change a flat tire, opens their house in a time of disaster, etc. It is only called Bullcrap by those unwilling to go the extra mile or take time to think about what their actions may or may not do to someone else.

 

This idea is right up with this secret sisterhood that gets trodded out. Not sure where this Sisterhood is in any other part of my life but I guess we are supposed to unite together to protect our men!

 

I never asked for a sisterhood....in fact you could hate my guts for all I care. I just ask that you stick to men that are available. (All generalized not thrown at you in particular)

 

And how dare an OW come to an OW/OM forum and look for support. Damn their selfishness and lack of consideration.

 

I never said that it was wrong for an OW/MOW/OM/MOM to look for support here, just that OW/MOW/OM/MOM brought that pain on them self. Yet spout how abused/hurt they are after they carry on with a married person.

 

The cheating spouse is whom makes the affair possible. Period. Without THEM no amount of temptation will matter.

 

Feel free to disagree with me. I really don't care. Affair are made possible by both sides...not just one. You cannot have one without the other. But that is the beauty of this whole issue isn't it. When the crap hits the fan....blame the spouse completely and play the victim. You can even lay blame on the BS from messing up the marriage in the first place. But never, never accept any of the blame on yourself with engaging with a WS.

 

If people want to cheat they will find a way. Period.

 

Where did I blame the BS? I don't understand where the highlighted statement plays into anything that I have said.

 

My job is not to dictate or tell others, tell men, whom they should date. If they are married they shouldn't date others. If they CHOOSE to date others than it is on them. It is their decision and their marriage vows to protect.

 

My marriage vows are mine to prioritize and protect. It is on me the validity of these vows and my actions on whether they are anything more than the paper they are written on. This is not for others to make sure they are supporting. I should be able to be in a room where men are throwing themselves at me and I should turn a blind eye. My husband should be able to be away, here, with friends, with coworkers. He should be completely happy with the marriage, in a runt, hating me, loving me and he should be the one to turn a blind eye and decide whether or not to prioritize the vows or not. Our marriage vows rest solely on us and what is acceptable or not. This is not for others to babysit for us.

[underwater2010]

If people want to cheat they will find a way. Period.

 

Where did I blame the BS? I don't understand where the highlighted statement plays into anything that I have said.

 

My job is not to dictate or tell others, tell men, whom they should date. If they are married they shouldn't date others. If they CHOOSE to date others than it is on them. It is their decision and their marriage vows to protect.

 

My marriage vows are mine to prioritize and protect. It is on me the validity of these vows and my actions on whether they are anything more than the paper they are written on. This is not for others to make sure they are supporting. I should be able to be in a room where men are throwing themselves at me and I should turn a blind eye. My husband should be able to be away, here, with friends, with coworkers. He should be completely happy with the marriage, in a runt, hating me, loving me and he should be the one to turn a blind eye and decide whether or not to prioritize the vows or not. Our marriage vows rest solely on us and what is acceptable or not. This is not for others to babysit for us.

See I totally agree that marriage vows are to be protected by those that make them. But why should someone else feel that the breaking of those vows is acceptable? Let alone be one of those women that goes out of her way to date only married men. That is where this whole argument started....I was asked why a ExMW dating only married men makes me sick to my stomach. I elaborated.

 

A woman that purposely pursues married men to me is evil. I have little sympathy for her and her type. I have found that I am able to have sympathy for remorseful other women and can somewhat understand the long term OW that "love" their MM. That is not saying that I agree with their choices and I still believe that their APs should have been considered off limits in the beginning. Then again I am skeeved out by married men hitting on women for the purpose of bedding them. Yes I do see it often. Yes I have been the one hit on. No I have never taken the bait.

 

I have always been a firm believer that if you are unhappily married, then divorce. But there will be no dating someone that says they are divorced until the paperwork is finalized.

 

But hey....not everyone is here to agree. You have made your points and I have made mine.

[krazikat]

I agree that everyone is responsible for their own actions and that the WS spouse should get the lions share of the blame for inviting that kind of pain into the marriage, however it's never nice to participate in someone else destruction, even if you didn't take vow or make promises to that person.

 

If I see someone saying cruel things to their kid I'm not going to jump in and start saying mean thing to their kid too, because "hey it's their kid and if they don't care about their kid, why should I"? Or if I hear someone gossiping and spreading rumors about their friends I'm not going to participate in it just because they're not my friends and I don't owe them any loyalty. Yet I see this said about affairs over and over again here. When a spouse is willing to hurt their partner by lying and cheating then suddenly the BS is fair game for anyone who wants to jump in and take part in their pain. Can anyone give any other example of when it's okay to participate in someone's heartbreak just because you don't know the person and you didn't take vows? If you were to witness a husband doing something hurtful and dishonest to his wife that didn't include cheating do you still think it's okay to take part in it? Everyone seems to understand the concept of being kind and decent in all walks of life until it comes to affairs and then suddenly it's "whoa! whoa! I'm not doing anything wrong! I didn't take vows. I don't know his wife. Why on earth would I care about about a stranger?!!" Then all of a sudden you got a bunch of OW who sneer at the very idea of being honest and kind to someone you don't know.

 

To Got It, no I wouldn't have let my kids blame someone else for their actions, nor would I let them think it's okay to sit back and reap the benefits of someone elses poor behavior. Like if their best friend stole money from their parents and shared it with my kid and my kid knew that money was stolen I would definitely punish my kid. I probably wouldn't consider it exactly the same as if my kid had stolen the money from me but I certainly wouldn't let them think that since they didn't actually do the stealing and it wasn't their parent being stolen from that they didn't do anything wrong.

 

^^^^^ well said!

[Got it]

I agree that everyone is responsible for their own actions and that the WS spouse should get the lions share of the blame for inviting that kind of pain into the marriage, however it's never nice to participate in someone else destruction, even if you didn't take vow or make promises to that person.

 

If I see someone saying cruel things to their kid I'm not going to jump in and start saying mean thing to their kid too, because "hey it's their kid and if they don't care about their kid, why should I"? Or if I hear someone gossiping and spreading rumors about their friends I'm not going to participate in it just because they're not my friends and I don't owe them any loyalty. Yet I see this said about affairs over and over again here. When a spouse is willing to hurt their partner by lying and cheating then suddenly the BS is fair game for anyone who wants to jump in and take part in their pain. Can anyone give any other example of when it's okay to participate in someone's heartbreak just because you don't know the person and you didn't take vows? If you were to witness a husband doing something hurtful and dishonest to his wife that didn't include cheating do you still think it's okay to take part in it? Everyone seems to understand the concept of being kind and decent in all walks of life until it comes to affairs and then suddenly it's "whoa! whoa! I'm not doing anything wrong! I didn't take vows. I don't know his wife. Why on earth would I care about about a stranger?!!" Then all of a sudden you got a bunch of OW who sneer at the very idea of being honest and kind to someone you don't know.

 

To Got It, no I wouldn't have let my kids blame someone else for their actions, nor would I let them think it's okay to sit back and reap the benefits of someone elses poor behavior. Like if their best friend stole money from their parents and shared it with my kid and my kid knew that money was stolen I would definitely punish my kid. I probably wouldn't consider it exactly the same as if my kid had stolen the money from me but I certainly wouldn't let them think that since they didn't actually do the stealing and it wasn't their parent being stolen from that they didn't do anything wrong.

 

I think there are many dating situations where you know that someone else likes the person you like, may even know that they are in love with them, does that mean you don't date the person? An ex who hasn't gotten over the person? You dating this person is going to cause them heartbreak, do you own that for them?

 

We make decisions all the time on whether or not we put our best interest over another, it happens all the time in business. You think your promotion wasn't at the expense of another? Think again. I agree, we each make individual decisions every day that decide whether or not we are going to directly or indirectly hurt someone one and it does come down to our moral compass.

 

Sorry but I still don't think the OP is required or should be expected not to be whomever they are. I think it is the job of the MP to honor their commitments.

 

I am, and have not, sneered at anyone's pain. I do recognize this is a very personal and subjective issue that is going to have an individual stance. In my situation, my MM, never blamed his wife's OP in her affair. He put the onus on her (unfortunately she put the onus on him but I digress ). The whole time growing up and when my friends and I were dating, if we called a guy off limits, I didn't expect the guy to abide by the rule but we expected the friend to do so as we had the understanding amongst ourselves. My first boyfriend cheated on me, I never looked at the other girl as being responsible though she did know about me. It was on him to honor.

 

I am very big into animal rights. As much I don't understand nor condone the abuse or mistreating of animals (including eating, testing, etc) and can't believe that this would even be up for discussion, I am pragmatic enough to know that this is not an universal truth and not everyone feels this way. I can only control my actions, do what I feel is best and try and make a small impact knowing that many others are doing the exact opposite. Trying to make this a universal truth would be an exercise in futility.

[Pierre]

I believe it is all about rationalization.

 

 

Some OWs rationaliza till the cows come home.

 

 

Others don't.

 

 

And many fall in the middle.

[Got it]

Dating someone with an ex is not the same thing as dating someone who is lying and deceiving another person. Those two things are not even remotely comparable. If I met a guy who lived with his "ex" and he wouldn't tell his "ex" about me, and his "ex" had no idea he was her "ex" then I most certainly would not date him because I have no interest in dating someone who is too cowardly to live their life honestly and truthfully. Same thing with a job promotion. Everyone knows that they are going to have competition when it comes to a promotion and most people go about competing for a promotion in a fair and honest way. I'm sure some people try to lie and cheat their way up the corporate ladder because some people are just like that but their are still lots of people in the world who can be happy and get ahead without sinking to a level of lies and deceit.

 

Here was the question asked, "Can anyone give any other example of when it's okay to participate in someone's heartbreak just because you don't know the person and you didn't take vows?" and my resulting answer.

 

Now if it was the wrong question to ask then fine. But it does answer the above question and your resulting response is a totally different line of thought.