the questions we ask ourselves

[beach]

Blaming situations or outside circumstances is backwards.

 

You can only blame yourself for YOUR OWN choices. If you don't like it - divorce your H.

 

It's not his job to make you happy! Either you are or you aren't. And since you aren't change that FOR YOURSELF.

 

Handing all your power to that MM isn't right.

 

You've now rewritten your marital history and placed all your power at the married mans feet, why? He IS staying married - he told you that!

 

The future faking talk you two did is never realistic. That's just pretend!

 

If you're not happy - have you told your H EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED FROM HIM? Is he willing to make effort to grow within the M?

 

If you don't want to change within he M the you may as well D. If you can't get honest with H - there's no reason to stay...

[Finally Settled]

Finally settled, your name says it all.

I am struggling with the "cast-in-iron" idea myself. Divorce doesn't happen in my family. Crazy thing. I'm 43 and still care what my Dad thinks of me. We were raised Catholic and divorce is obviously frowned upon. My Dad will be disappointed to say the least. I know I'm a grown-up and I can make my own decisions. I have talked about this with my therapist. Believe me.

 

I'm curious. Do you have any children? If so, may I ask how old they were when you divorced? Did they handle it well? That is my biggest fear, hurting my children. I'm glad your life is better now that you found the right one. It sounds like the heartache was worth it. Thank you for your reply.

 

I understand your concerns with what others feel. I was raised in a family where tradition and duty were observed from a tender age. We were taught never to shirk any obligation for any reason. Because of this I have friends who I met as a toddler and businesses that will remain in my care because they were in the care of my father and his before him. It is a very European style thinking and it took a great deal to release myself from the weight of it.

 

I do have children. They were from all in their twenties when I divorced my exwife. My eldest son had the worst time of it, but we have found our peace. He is very much like me and facing my lifetime of mistakes has shown him some that he is making now. When he recognized our similarities he was more forgiving of my actions. He will never forgive the hurt I inflicted on his mother, but he accepts what has happened and my choices. My youngest was my biggest concern. He has a disease that will keep him from ever living without full time care. He is very sensitive and very dependent on those around him. He sensed our lack of happiness from a very early age and was not at all surprised when we told him of the divorce. My other children have had various responses, but overall they understand we have lives just as they do. I know there are resentments and the road will be bumpy, but they are wise and well adjusted enough to work through this with our help.

 

The heartache was worth it. As I said, I do not like how I arrived where I am, but I am very happy to be here.

 

Would you speak to your father candidly about your life? Would you allow him the opportunity to understand your feelings and to stand by you as you move forward with your life? One day my desire to live my life was stronger than my desire to make everyone around me happy. That was the day I consulted a lawyer and spoke to a real estate agent. I wish you the best.

[happy stillmore]

Beach,

 

You are 100% correct on all points. I take full responsibility for everything I have done. I feel guilt to this day for my H for marrying him when I did. I wasn't honest with him then. My H and I have an unusual marriage where we do not communicate. He is very non-confrontational. In the beginning, when we first realized there were problems, he once sent me a long letter typed in an e-mail about our marriage. (I was sitting in the next room)

 

I have accepted that my relationship with xMM is over. I agree that it was wrong to depend on him for my happiness. Another question I have been asking myself (title of the thread coincidentally) is: When you find a true partner, it obviously makes you happy. If not, nobody would care to look for a partner. I believe that yes, one does have to be happy on their own. But, when you find the right one, you feel complete. Weren't we all supposed to be complete before meeting the right one? It is so hard to explain.

Edited July 4, 2013 by happy stillmore

[beach]

And how do you think your H must feel - he must know deep down that you don't really love him.

 

How is that right/fair to him?

[Praying4Peace]

Happy Stillmore,

 

It is very evident from your posts that you know what you need to do but you are scared because it takes a leap of faith.

 

You will be okay because I can sense this inner optimism and hope in your words, despite all the sadness you have borne.

 

You will be fine alone because you already ARE alone, married or not. At least if you are legally 'alone' when you meet the right person (whether its MM or someone else) you won't have to deal with this drama or have an 'exit affair' which is just even another level of cruelty to the spouse.

 

Your H will find someone too and probably thank you one day. He might be feeling the same way but H's never want to be seen as shirking their responsibilities. How would you feel if he had an affair and then some other poor girl was feeling like you did because he decided to stay out of guilt and repsonsibility (and not wanting to dump you, the mother of his kids...like your MM is feeling now). It's a perpetual cycle that I've noticed on this site. After a number of affairs for both spouses (madhatters) they are just enabling each other...they are loose cannons that will just suck in some other single person and cause the hurt over and over again.

 

Remember, no pain no gain. You might sit semi comfortably with your finances and home and knowing what you'll be doing on the Fourth of July but that's all. You gotta take a chance if you want something more out of life.

 

I realize that not everyone thinks this way and its just a personality thing, but I can see that you'll be happy when you find yourself. And then your romantic relationship will only be the big bright sweet cherry on top of your already fabulous ice cream sundae life : )

[happy stillmore]

Prayingforpeace,

Thank you so much for the uplifting words. You brought tears to my eyes. I am going to remember your words.

[happy stillmore]

Beach,

It doesn't make H feel good and it is not fair to him. I know. I feel incredible guilt for this reason. We both know things aren't right. I know I would be doing him a favour by divorcing. I have told him I want him to find his true love and be happy. He deserves more than what I can give him. I wish I could. I can't feel things I don't. It would make everyone's life easier if I could find a way to feel romantic love for H. I would do it in a heartbeat if I could.

Edited July 4, 2013 by happy stillmore

[happy stillmore]

Praying4 peace,

I wouldn't wish this feeling on any OW or my worst enemy.

[Pierre]

Beach,

It doesn't make H feel good and it is not fair to him. I know. I feel incredible guilt for this reason. We both know things aren't right. I know I would be doing him a favour by divorcing. I have told him I want him to find his true love and be happy. He deserves more than what I can give him. I wish I could. I can't feel things I don't. It would make everyone's life easier if I could find a way to feel romantic love for H. I would do it in a heartbeat if I could.

 

Your H is a happy man and hence he can tolerate the routine of your marriage. Your H is not defined by you. However, you need a man to define who you are and to be happy.

 

I still think you have major childhood issues and perhaps did not receive enough love as a kid. Some psychoanalysis with a competent psychiatrist may help. Sessions with a feel good pop psychologist will do nothing for you.

[Praying4Peace]

So Pierre,

Anyone who is in an unhappy marital relationship has mental issues? Because anyone should be able to love anyone else, regardless of personality/compatibility/past issues/present issues? That's because...right...bc another shouldn't be responsible for your happiness. But I think what you say is that another shouldn't be responsible for your happiness 24/7. Big difference. Only a 2-4 year old demands that type of love from another!

 

So if I arranged your marriage to someone you didn't know and you were a perfectly healthy individual that didn't need therapy or have any FOO issues, then that couple would be happy according to your argument, right? Because everything else is just an illusion or some indication of inner brokenness?

 

I think for you to assume that a Happy Husband sleeps on the couch for SEVEN YEARS is very telling of your definition of happiness.

Lets for arguments sake say he is very happy with himself on the couch, well SHE isn't. Let him take his whole, happy self and find someone else who can add to his happiness...perhaps even elevate him to a marriage where there is bedsharing (but as an additional happiness, bc he's already happy enough).

 

Happy Stillmore recognizes love. Just because her family history seems unique and tragic doesn't make her 'damaged per se'. It does for some people, but I doubt her posts would be so insightful if she really was that broken. Sometimes tragedies make people stronger and healthier. Know how diamonds are made?

 

It's funny how some people have mastered the art of degradation disguised as 'support' to evade the Moderators.

 

HS- you got plenty of love as a child from your twin and your mom. That's why you recognize it and need it again. People who really never got love don't understand the nature of love and don't feel the need for it and hence may be happy being by themselves for that reason too. It works both ways.

 

Take care.

[Pierre]

So Pierre,

Anyone who is in an unhappy marital relationship has mental issues? Because anyone should be able to love anyone else, regardless of personality/compatibility/past issues/present issues? That's because...right...bc another shouldn't be responsible for your happiness. But I think what you say is that another shouldn't be responsible for your happiness 24/7. Big difference. Only a 2-4 year old demands that type of love from another!

 

So if I arranged your marriage to someone you didn't know and you were a perfectly healthy individual that didn't need therapy or have any FOO issues, then that couple would be happy according to your argument, right? Because everything else is just an illusion or some indication of inner brokenness?

 

I think for you to assume that a Happy Husband sleeps on the couch for SEVEN YEARS is very telling of your definition of happiness.

Lets for arguments sake say he is very happy with himself on the couch, well SHE isn't. Let him take his whole, happy self and find someone else who can add to his happiness...perhaps even elevate him to a marriage where there is bedsharing (but as an additional happiness, bc he's already happy enough).

 

Happy Stillmore recognizes love. Just because her family history seems unique and tragic doesn't make her 'damaged per se'. It does for some people, but I doubt her posts would be so insightful if she really was that broken. Sometimes tragedies make people stronger and healthier. Know how diamonds are made?

 

It's funny how some people have mastered the art of degradation disguised as 'support' to evade the Moderators.

 

HS- you got plenty of love as a child from your twin and your mom. That's why you recognize it and need it again. People who really never got love don't understand the nature of love and don't feel the need for it and hence may be happy being by themselves for that reason too. It works both ways.

 

Take care.

 

I don't know the H of the OP.

 

In any event, intrinsically happy people are perfectly capable of being unhappy when they are mistreated by a bad spouse. That is different from a spouse that claims to be unhappy but cannot point out a specific cause for the unhappiness.

 

 

If the H of OP has been sleeping in the couch for seven years then he is a fool for staying married. But, who knows? Maybe he has an OW that meets his needs.

 

I am sorry that you think may views are harsh, but I call it as I see it. No one is responsible to make another person happy. That job is impossible to do. I rather be with a happy person and from there I can simply increase the level happiness.

[happy stillmore]

Pierre,

I grew up in a very loving home. I was raised with high standards and a strong work ethic. I never doubted my parents' love for me. When my Mom died, the glue to our tight family came undone. I will admit that I am not really comfortable talking with my Dad. But I know he loved me as he put myself and three girls through college. I do not need to see a psychiatrist as I don't have a mental illness. I do not hear voices. I am working a full-time job. So I must not be in a deep depression where I am unable to work. I had enough love for myself that I had to walk away from MM when he couldn't stand up to his wife. I must not be too lost. My name is Happy Still more. I chose that because I'm choosing to be happy still even though I'm sad. If I was a mental case, I'd be in some trouble right now as this is an incredibly difficult time for me. I can't help to feel like you are displacing some anger at me for some reason. I'm curious, are you an OM or a BS?

 

My husband is not happy. He drinks a lot when he is home. He drank throughout our marriage. He had a DUI before we married. our sex life is not what he wants either. I want the "look in each other's eyes" kind and he wants different. He confided some secret fantasies that he wants to do with me. He admitted he did these things in a relationship before me. They are so strange and make me look at him differently. I wish I had known these things BEFORE we married. This in addition to the peeping thing creeps me out. So, that is why I am not interested in being intimate with him. I get flashes of that in my mind and it turns me off. I don't trust him. Okay, call me a prude. I want to be with a man who is affectionate and would die if he was not able to share the bed with me. I didn't kick him out. I do have to say he is a great father and works hard at his job. He is not a bad man, just not the one for me. I want everyone to be happy and yes, Pierre, no-one can provide me my happiness. It has to come from within me.

Edited July 4, 2013 by happy stillmore

[Pierre]

Pierre,

I grew up in a very loving home. I was raised with high standards and a strong work ethic. I never doubted my parents' love for me. When my Mom died, the glue to our tight family came undone. I will admit that I am not really comfortable talking with my Dad. But I know he loved me as he put myself and three girls through college. I do not need to see a psychiatrist as I don't have a mental illness. I do not hear voices. I am working a full-time job. So I must not be in a deep depression where I am unable to work. I had enough love for myself that I had to walk away from MM when he couldn't stand up to his wife. I must not be too lost. I can't help to feel like you are displacing some anger at me for some reason. I'm curious, are you an OM or a BS?

 

My husband is not happy. He drinks a lot when he is home. He drank throughout our marriage. He had a DUI before we married. our sex life is not what he wants either. I want the "look in each other's eyes" kind and he wants different. He confided some secret fantasies that he wants to do with me. He admitted he did these things in a relationship before me. They are so strange and make me look at him differently. I wish I had known these things BEFORE we married. This in addition to the peeping thing creeps me out. So, that is why I am not interested in being intimate with him. I get flashes of that in my mind and it turns me off. I don't trust him. Okay, call me a prude. I want to be with a man who is affectionate and would die if he was not able to share the bed with me. I didn't kick him out. I do have to say he is a great father and works hard at his job. He is not a bad man, just not the one for me. I want everyone to be happy and yes, Pierre, no-one can provide me my happiness. It has to come from within me.

 

WOW!

 

Mow we are talking. I think you don't love your H. He does not meet your emotional needs. There is nothing that can be done other than ending the relationship. I was wrong with my impression. You are simply staying in a marriage where there is no love left.

 

You have to forgive me, but I thought you were simply looking for your H to make you happy. If I was you I would move on.

 

I am glad you were so clear.

[canuckprincess]

Canuckprincess, is there a chance MM will leave his marriage?

 

Yes, I'm sure there is always a chance.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I guess the real question is, do you have a plan of action to change your situation, Stillmore?

[happy stillmore]

Not really. I wish I had the answers.

[JustAReformedGirl]

Not really. I wish I had the answers.

 

I'm sure you'll find them, with time.

[LilGirlandOW]

I'm sure you'll find them, with time.

 

The anwers in affairs are like an easter egg hunt, you have to find them then figure out how to get the foil off to really get at them.

 

Best of luck!

[Pierre]

Not really. I wish I had the answers.

 

OK, let me ask:

 

Why do you stay married?

 

It seems that when someone really wants a divorce they get a divorce. I suspect, you would only leave the marriage if the MM calls and says he has just left his wife. Why not be proactive and end the marriage now? Why prolong the agony? BTW, I favor exit affairs. Relationships end all the time. Why do you stay married?

 

Don't say the kids? THat is what all cake eaters say.

[happy stillmore]

Pierre,

I have remained in the marriage for two reasons: the kids and financial reasons. I never wanted to see my kids hurt or worry about a loss of security. As you know, I lost my mother young and don't want my kids to experience those fears of losing a parent. I know divorce doesn't mean the parent is gone in their lives but children don't always understand that. The financial reasons pertain to the children as well. I don't want my children to have to "do without" because we couldn't afford due to having to support two households. I would feel guilty and I won't be able to sleep if I knew my kids were struggling with my decision.

 

I think I said before, I accepted the fact that MM is not leaving his wife. His income helps pay there mortgage. Without it, the family would have to sell the house. The family would hate him and he couldn't live with that.

 

The original plan was to stick it out with MM for two more years until MM and BS paid a big loan off and then his wife could afford the mortgage on her income. But when I saw how BS was controlling him (not allowing him to leave the house alone and no texting), I realized that this was a futile relationship. How can you have a relationship without talking or seeing your partner? That was the BS' s plan and it worked. She knew I would get fed up. I don't totally blame her. MM is to blame for not standing up and demand he be free to do what he wants when he is staying there to help pay bills. There is a slim to none chance I will ever get the call that MM left his wife.

 

I don't understand the comment about my kids being the reason I stayed in this situation. How am I a cake-eater. I was doing what was best for my kids, not for me. 20 years. A cake-eater at least, enjoys benefits of their actions. For me, the benefits were my children's happiness, not totally mine.

[Pierre]

Pierre,

I have remained in the marriage for two reasons: the kids and financial reasons. I never wanted to see my kids hurt or worry about a loss of security. As you know, I lost my mother young and don't want my kids to experience those fears of losing a parent. I know divorce doesn't mean the parent is gone in their lives but children don't always understand that. The financial reasons pertain to the children as well. I don't want my children to have to "do without" because we couldn't afford due to having to support two households. I would feel guilty and I won't be able to sleep if I knew my kids were struggling with my decision.

 

I think I said before, I accepted the fact that MM is not leaving his wife. His income helps pay there mortgage. Without it, the family would have to sell the house. The family would hate him and he couldn't live with that.

 

The original plan was to stick it out with MM for two more years until MM and BS paid a big loan off and then his wife could afford the mortgage on her income. But when I saw how BS was controlling him (not allowing him to leave the house alone and no texting), I realized that this was a futile relationship. How can you have a relationship without talking or seeing your partner? That was the BS' s plan and it worked. She knew I would get fed up. I don't totally blame her. MM is to blame for not standing up and demand he be free to do what he wants when he is staying there to help pay bills. There is a slim to none chance I will ever get the call that MM left his wife.

 

I don't understand the comment about my kids being the reason I stayed in this situation. How am I a cake-eater. I was doing what was best for my kids, not for me. 20 years. A cake-eater at least, enjoys benefits of their actions. For me, the benefits were my children's happiness, not totally mine.

 

 

The only solution is divorce. You are too afraid to act. More than 50% of kids come from dovirced homes.

[beach]

He will dream up another excuse why he can't divorce her.

 

When a person has decided and ready - nothing stops them from getting it finalized.

 

He doesn't intend to.

 

I hope you decide what's best for YOU!

 

It's not a decision to make based on what someone else does or doesn't do.

[Pierre]

OP

 

You claim to be in a loveless, sexless, etc marriage. You had an affair.

 

And yet you stay married. How are you different from every other cake eater in the planet? You atre getting something out of your marriage.

 

You also sacrifice your H and keep him in a loveless marriage.

[happy stillmore]

Everyone is right. I already had thought about how confused my kids would be if I left and moved in with MM. It stressed me out greatly. In a way, I am a little relieved that things are the way they are. MM is not in the picture and will not be. He made his decision which I understand. I miss him and loved his so much but it is for the best. With MM out of my life, I do realize it makes things less complicated. I can focus on my kids (as I should be) when I make this decision to disrupt their lives with a divorce. It was never agood idea to move out and into a place with MM. Yes, I was a cake-eater as I was married and enjoyed this relationship with MM. It is wrong to keep H in this situation but our financial situation prohibited me moving out. Together, we pay the bills. Apart, we can't independently support ourselves. Literally, food would be taken out of my kids mouths. The affair was wrong, wrong, wrong. I never would have seen myself in this position. I admit it. I was desperate to share a love like I did with MM. It was wonderful. It was the happiest I was in my whole life. We were so connected, like we were on the same wavelength. Finished each other's sentences...I was selfish to be in a relationship while married but like I said, I was so alone and was desperate. Not a proud moment for me. I know I have to be on my own first. Find myself. do things with friends. Find happiness on my own.

[Pierre]

Everyone is right. I already had thought about how confused my kids would be if I left and moved in with MM. It stressed me out greatly. In a way, I am a little relieved that things are the way they are. MM is not in the picture and will not be. He made his decision which I understand. I miss him and loved his so much but it is for the best. With MM out of my life, I do realize it makes things less complicated. I can focus on my kids (as I should be) when I make this decision to disrupt their lives with a divorce. It was never agood idea to move out and into a place with MM. Yes, I was a cake-eater as I was married and enjoyed this relationship with MM. It is wrong to keep H in this situation but our financial situation prohibited me moving out. Together, we pay the bills. Apart, we can't independently support ourselves. Literally, food would be taken out of my kids mouths. The affair was wrong, wrong, wrong. I never would have seen myself in this position. I admit it. I was desperate to share a love like I did with MM. It was wonderful. It was the happiest I was in my whole life. We were so connected, like we were on the same wavelength. Finished each other's sentences...I was selfish to be in a relationship while married but like I said, I was so alone and was desperate. Not a proud moment for me. I know I have to be on my own first. Find myself. do things with friends. Find happiness on my own.

 

Are you in the marriage from hell of are you simply bored in your marriage?

 

If the former is true you should leave. If the latter is true then it is up to you not to have a boring marriage.