Question for OM/ OW's

[Betterthanthis13]

This is an honest question for any OW or OM who's AP has been through a DDay that was NOT revealed by you or confessed by your AP. It was discovered somehow on accident by the BS.

 

I'd like to know if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the amount of psychological trauma and pain he or she caused the BS due to the extended period of time during which he or she was sneaking around to conduct the affair with you, telling lies to the BS, and upon discovery most likely denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and trickle truthing.

 

Before you jump all over me, I am not here to judge anyone for having an affair, I don't care if the BS was a cold hearted monster or didnt give sex, or why you had an affair in the first place, my question is ONLY about if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the effects his affair had on the mental health of his spouse.

 

Speculate away! Thanks in advance-I hope I am not offending anyone with this weird inquiry. I am just curious what you all think.

[LilGirlandOW]

I am the OW,

 

My MM admits sometimes he doesnt like lying to BS, he's generally a very honest man.

 

Although with that being said, he's not in love with her, they're 'housemates' raising children together with no intimacy. (obviously 'so he says')

 

He says he's in love with me. He and i, he considers gf/bf & bff's (lol). Our relationship he feels no guilt for. He's very honest with me about how he feels and where he, I and her stand in his life atm. He is also honest about he doesnt know what the future holds, and in any case I appreciate that cause he doesnt lead me through a 'smoke and mirror' maze telling me he's leaving for me..... quite the contrary he has stated many times that if he was to leave that we would somewhat start anew and take things slow as far as relatiponship wise due to his children..... I appreciate that

[LilGirlandOW]

I also would not want him to leave her for me, giving up half his life just for me is a tall order to live up to for me, and would be a huge weight on my shoulders trying to 'make it worth it', so I would want it to be for other reasons.

[Pierre]

I also would not want him to leave her for me, giving up half his life just for me is a tall order to live up to for me, and would be a huge weight on my shoulders trying to 'make it worth it', so I would want it to be for other reasons.

 

You did not answer the question about the d-day.

 

What will your guy do if there is a d-day? Have you discussed post d-day plans?

[Betterthanthis13]

Thanks for the reply LilGirlandOW- so the BS in your situation isn't aware of the affair yet. Not exactly what I'm looking for but I appreciate the response!

[LilGirlandOW]

Yes, to an extent,

 

When we were working as boss/employee, if a dday were to happen it would be done, and we would 'deny, deny, deny' we were both good with that, as neither of us wanted to loose our jobs.

 

Currently I am not with that company and the only thing at risk would be his M, we have no dday plans as in the begining he said he wasnt concerned with his M, in his mind it was over, he just wanted to make it clear about his career, and I was more than ok with that

[Pierre]

Yes, to an extent,

 

When we were working as boss/employee, if a dday were to happen it would be done, and we would 'deny, deny, deny' we were both good with that, as neither of us wanted to loose our jobs.

 

Currently I am not with that company and the only thing at risk would be his M, we have no dday plans as in the begining he said he wasnt concerned with his M, in his mind it was over, he just wanted to make it clear about his career, and I was more than ok with that

 

In your estimate. What would happen if you have a d-day?

[LilGirlandOW]

OP, we have had 2 'mini ddays' reagrding my phone number on home bills, and invites, etc... Both times, we continued on like it didnt happen... She knew it was my number, he admitted to that. Not sure how he dealt with it on BS end of things, gaslighting i assume... With the ddays falling during times i was with the company as his employee he had to get out of it cause she knew of the company policies regarding our relationship.

[LilGirlandOW]

If we had a real dday, my guess is he would be kicked to the curb by her so fast as she would realize how long our A has been going on, she discovered our contact about 8mnths ago right near the begining, at our (my former) company even outside work contact is strictly forbidden.

 

She also makes more $ than he slightly as well her family is very well off, so she wouldnt need to cling to him like a lifeline..... but you never know right/.

[Betterthanthis13]

Thanks Lil Girl that is more of what I was looking for. So he plans to stay married to her, continue a relationship with you, she has been suspicious and confronted with some weak proof twice but he denied, he feels bad for lying to her but justifies it because in his mind the marriage is over- he doesn't inform her that its over because its better for him to keep the marriage intact for some reason (kids?). He is either unaware that what he is doing could be affecting her mental health and causing pain, doesn't care, or isn't discussing that topic with you, (inappropriate topic of conversation?)

 

If any of that is wrong let me know. It sounds like you care about him a lot and if what I just wrote sounds insensitive like I am trying to be on the OW board and start a discussion about what pain BS's go through I sincerely apologize i want to stress again that is NOT my intent- my intent is only to gage what the OM / OW believe is the level of understanding their AP has for the BS's pain. I appreciate your response I realize I am asking about a touchy subject and I am grateful you took the time to share your story with me.

[canuckprincess]

This is an honest question for any OW or OM who's AP has been through a DDay that was NOT revealed by you or confessed by your AP. It was discovered somehow on accident by the BS.

 

I'd like to know if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the amount of psychological trauma and pain he or she caused the BS due to the extended period of time during which he or she was sneaking around to conduct the affair with you, telling lies to the BS, and upon discovery most likely denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and trickle truthing.

 

Before you jump all over me, I am not here to judge anyone for having an affair, I don't care if the BS was a cold hearted monster or didnt give sex, or why you had an affair in the first place, my question is ONLY about if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the effects his affair had on the mental health of his spouse.

 

Speculate away! Thanks in advance-I hope I am not offending anyone with this weird inquiry. I am just curious what you all think.

 

 

I am the ow, dday was the result of mm not trying to end his M but infact hoping to open his marriage so to speak. His bs was crushed when he told her about our 6 year relationship. That was almost 2 years ago. I work in the mental health field and I often worry about the damage to her mental health that my involvement has caused. I know he feels bad but truth be told I think I feel worse at times. I know the affair has affected her self esteem and I know whatever the future has in store the damage is permanent. So for that I'm truly sorry.

[egalew]

To answer your question..... I think on some deep psychological level my ex-MM wanted to get caught. He didn't have the "balls" to leave the marriage on his own accord.

 

Why do I say this? Because I never once pressured / asked or suggested he leave. When the wife gave him the boot, stating she was unhappy, he said things like: "I have to take responsibility I engineered this thing." Meaning he wasn't as careful as he should have been, left e-mails and texts to be found.

 

I believe my ex-MM has NPP. He was a total kept man I learned after we parted ways. I now suspect there was some weird psychological game between him and the wife, and while he purported to love her, he was cruel, or not the affable, laid back he was with me.

[Betterthanthis13]

I am the ow, dday was the result of mm not trying to end his M but infact hoping to open his marriage so to speak. His bs was crushed when he told her about our 6 year relationship. That was almost 2 years ago. I work in the mental health field and I often worry about the damage to her mental health that my involvement has caused. I know he feels bad but truth be told I think I feel worse at times. I know the affair has affected her self esteem and I know whatever the future has in store the damage is permanent. So for that I'm truly sorry.

That sounds like a really heart wrenching situation for all parties. From my understanding the hardest, least likely to succeed way of making a transition from a monogamous to an open marriage is by revealing infidelity.

 

It sounds like you have empathy for the BS, I'm not feeling like he has very much if any for her. Thanks for giving me some insight on your perspective. 6 years is a long time, I hope you have had time to take care of yourself and for your own wounds to heal.

[Betterthanthis13]

To answer your question..... I think on some deep psychological level my ex-MM wanted to get caught. He didn't have the "balls" to leave the marriage on his own accord.

 

Why do I say this? Because I never once pressured / asked or suggested he leave. When the wife gave him the boot, stating she was unhappy, he said things like: "I have to take responsibility I engineered this thing." Meaning he wasn't as careful as he should have been, left e-mails and texts to be found.

 

I believe my ex-MM has NPP. He was a total kept man I learned after we parted ways. I now suspect there was some weird psychological game between him and the wife, and while he purported to love her, he was cruel, or not the affable, laid back he was with me.

Wow, that's really scary and aggressive behavior on his part. He "engineered" getting caught? Some people are just downright cruel. NPD or sociopathic for sure if he was able to act like a laid back good guy with you while he took his time to plot and scheme and anticipate causing his sugar mama pain with a DDay, ugh that's really revolting.

 

I'm sorry you had the misfortune to ever meet this character.

[canuckprincess]

That sounds like a really heart wrenching situation for all parties. From my understanding the hardest, least likely to succeed way of making a transition from a monogamous to an open marriage is by revealing infidelity.

 

It sounds like you have empathy for the BS, I'm not feeling like he has very much if any for her. Thanks for giving me some insight on your perspective. 6 years is a long time, I hope you have had time to take care of yourself and for your own wounds to heal.

 

He most certainly does feel bad for the pain we cause her. I do take care of myself and as for my wounds needing time to heal, there's no need as of yet.

[Lillyfree]

He most certainly does feel bad for the pain we cause her. I do take care of myself and as for my wounds needing time to heal, there's no need as of yet.

 

question... and that's all it is, an honest question: knowing how much it's hurting the BS, and being aware of the damage it's causing her... how are you able to continue the affair?

[Betterthanthis13]

He most certainly does feel bad for the pain we cause her. I do take care of myself and as for my wounds needing time to heal, there's no need as of yet.

 

Oh! I must have mis-read-I was under the wrong assumption that everyone went their separate ways 2 years ago.

 

So DDay was 2 years ago, initiated by him confessing your affair in an attempt to be honest and possibly open their marriage, you and he remain together still and either they divorced or had a reconciliation, but either way both of you feel you are fully aware of the depth and have empathy for the trauma experienced by the BS.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, thanks again.

[canuckprincess]

question... and that's all it is, an honest question: knowing how much it's hurting the BS, and being aware of the damage it's causing her... how are you able to continue the affair?

 

The short answer is, I love him.

[Got it]

This is an honest question for any OW or OM who's AP has been through a DDay that was NOT revealed by you or confessed by your AP. It was discovered somehow on accident by the BS.

 

I'd like to know if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the amount of psychological trauma and pain he or she caused the BS due to the extended period of time during which he or she was sneaking around to conduct the affair with you, telling lies to the BS, and upon discovery most likely denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and trickle truthing.

 

Before you jump all over me, I am not here to judge anyone for having an affair, I don't care if the BS was a cold hearted monster or didnt give sex, or why you had an affair in the first place, my question is ONLY about if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the effects his affair had on the mental health of his spouse.

 

Speculate away! Thanks in advance-I hope I am not offending anyone with this weird inquiry. I am just curious what you all think.

 

I think this is a good question. I think in my case the short answer is no. Now what compounds it, is he was also a BS from a few years prior and extrapolated how he felt and handled things to be similar when there was a dday with us years later. He assumed that because she was so cold towards him after their dday, during her affair, and after, that there was such a lack of interest in him outside of a coparent that there would be a hullabaloo. I warned him in the beginning that I thought his assumption was wrong based on the line of behaviors on her side during her affair, that him leaving was about ending her life as she knew it which she choose not to change after her affair. So while she may not care about him in the manner he wanted, divorcing or him cheating was a totally different story.

 

And I was right. He was floored, and floored for a long time about her response and her actions after dday. He was more astounded when we started dating again, when he separated and divorced her reaction and her full court press to cow him into submission.

 

He hates her now. Not because of her affair and her lack of remorse of it, not because of her pain over his betrayal, but for her evilness, vindictiveness, and hypocrisy, and her willingness to pull their kids, the community, and family to destroy him (as was stated by her).

 

May not fully answer your question but we have a very complex tapestry.

[elfman]

I am the OW,

 

My MM admits sometimes he doesnt like lying to BS, he's generally a very honest man.

 

Although with that being said, he's not in love with her, they're 'housemates' raising children together with no intimacy. (obviously 'so he says')

 

He says he's in love with me. He and i, he considers gf/bf & bff's (lol). Our relationship he feels no guilt for. He's very honest with me about how he feels and where he, I and her stand in his life atm. He is also honest about he doesnt know what the future holds, and in any case I appreciate that cause he doesnt lead me through a 'smoke and mirror' maze telling me he's leaving for me..... quite the contrary he has stated many times that if he was to leave that we would somewhat start anew and take things slow as far as relatiponship wise due to his children..... I appreciate that

 

Yeah, must say he does sound like a very HONEST man indeed... please.

[Betterthanthis13]

I think this is a good question. I think in my case the short answer is no. Now what compounds it, is he was also a BS from a few years prior and extrapolated how he felt and handled things to be similar when there was a dday with us years later. He assumed that because she was so cold towards him after their dday, during her affair, and after, that there was such a lack of interest in him outside of a coparent that there would be a hullabaloo. I warned him in the beginning that I thought his assumption was wrong based on the line of behaviors on her side during her affair, that him leaving was about ending her life as she knew it which she choose not to change after her affair. So while she may not care about him in the manner he wanted, divorcing or him cheating was a totally different story.

 

And I was right. He was floored, and floored for a long time about her response and her actions after dday. He was more astounded when we started dating again, when he separated and divorced her reaction and her full court press to cow him into submission.

 

He hates her now. Not because of her affair and her lack of remorse of it, not because of her pain over his betrayal, but for her evilness, vindictiveness, and hypocrisy, and her willingness to pull their kids, the community, and family to destroy him (as was stated by her).

 

May not fully answer your question but we have a very complex tapestry.

 

Thank you- there are so many different factors involved in each of these situations, I really appreciate all the stories and hearing your perspectives about your AP's awareness level of the BS's pain.

[thecharade]

Oddly enough, I was the ONLY one out of us that understood how this would crush her! We are ex-bf/gf, and when we got into contact again it was, "We should have been forever." The A began and we started discussing. I kept asking what our plan was, and he did not want to discuss it. He would say, "How do I justify leaving? Just tell her I never loved her like I love you? And then everyone will hate me, even my kids." So I'd say, "Well we're not going to let a dday happen if you are trying to avoid hurting her at all! She'll be wrecked!" He made no sense, zero.

 

He could not handle hurting someone that had done nothing wrong. Not loving someone is not equal to hating someone. He loves her like a sister, a good friend, his mom! WHY would it feel ok to crush her?! But the idiot's solution was, "So we can't let her find out."

 

I said, "If we 'have to' be together, then people will be hurt. But if not, then let's part before she is torn to bits by your senseless betrayal."

 

He said, "I knew you'd leave me. I knew you didn't love me enough to figure this out."

 

Are you freaking kidding me?!?! Her impending sorrow did not register. He was such a complete coward, afraid of everything. It's fine if he wants to stay married or loves her or both, but why did he blame ME for bailing?!?! I could not and would not allow devastation unless we felt 100% sure we could not live without each other. An A to solve my problems or bring about equilibrium? No way.

 

Yes, I was fully aware. But I have loved him since I was a teenager. He's the only person I've ever loved with my whole heart.

Edited July 5, 2013 by thecharade

[Betterthanthis13]

Oddly enough, I was the ONLY one out of us that understood how this would crush her! We are ex-bf/gf, and when we got into contact again it was, "We should have been forever." The A began and we started discussing. I kept asking what our plan was, and he did not want to discuss it. He would say, "How do I justify leaving? Just tell her I never loved her like I love you? And then everyone will hate me, even my kids." So I'd say, "Well we're not going to let a dday happen if you are trying to avoid hurting her at all! She'll be wrecked!" He made no sense, zero.

 

He could not handle hurting someone that had done nothing wrong. Not loving someone is not equal to hating someone. He loves her like a sister, a good friend, his mom! WHY would it feel ok to crush her?! But the idiot's solution was, "So we can't let her find out."

 

I said, "If we 'have to' be together, then people will be hurt. But if not, then let's part before she is torn to bits by your senseless betrayal."

 

He said, "I knew you'd leave me. I knew you didn't love me enough to figure this out."

 

Are you freaking kidding me?!?! Her impending sorrow did not register. He was such a complete coward, afraid of everything. It's fine if he wants to stay married or loves her or both, but why did he blame ME for bailing?!?! I could not and would not allow devastation unless we felt 100% sure we could not live without each other. An A to solve my problems or bring about equilibrium? No way.

 

Yes, I was fully aware. But I have loved him since I was a teenager. He's the only person I've ever loved with my whole heart.

 

WOW..... That blows my mind. I can see how WS's in A's get all swept up in emotions and make poor judgement calls by ignoring their nagging conscience or blaming a failing marriage, but you directly confronted him with logic, ethics, and empathy for his BS and he wanted to build a bomb anyway? Didn't even take the possibility of a DDay into consideration. Then got mad at you for leaving him? I guess that's called cake eater on loveshack- wanting to have the love of his life on the side with the comfortable family at home and everyone thinks he's just a super awesome guy. Ick. I'm glad you decided not to participate, I'm sorry he put you through all that.

 

.

[thecharade]

Betterthanthis13,

 

I never know what I'll get when I post. The story or meaning can be misconstrued if I don't word things correctly, or sometimes people make sweeping generalizations or painful assumptions, so your response warmed my heart. It was compassionate, understanding, and generous. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

 

I assume you are a BS, and if so, I can only imagine the shock and pain. I have never cheated on any boyfriend or my H, never even gave it any thought, until my ex-bf appeared, and I am almost 50! I would never and will never engage in an A again. I can see how the BS and kids are affected enormously, and honestly, I am deeply sorry that I put my ex-bf's family in that kind of emotional jeopardy. I hope you are doing well, wherever you may be in all this.

 

Thank you for your open-mindedness.

[Betterthanthis13]

Betterthanthis13,

 

I never know what I'll get when I post. The story or meaning can be misconstrued if I don't word things correctly, or sometimes people make sweeping generalizations or painful assumptions, so your response warmed my heart. It was compassionate, understanding, and generous. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

 

I assume you are a BS, and if so, I can only imagine the shock and pain. I have never cheated on any boyfriend or my H, never even gave it any thought, until my ex-bf appeared, and I am almost 50! I would never and will never engage in an A again. I can see how the BS and kids are affected enormously, and honestly, I am deeply sorry that I put my ex-bf's family in that kind of emotional jeopardy. I hope you are doing well, wherever you may be in all this.

 

Thank you for your open-mindedness.

 

I'm not exactly a BS. Maybe, I'm in a strange situation. I'm divorced, never been involved in an affair, my x husband didn't have an affair, we split amicably and co-parent our son, my long term relationship after divorce (10years ish) didn't involve any infidelity. So you can imagine my surprise when my current boyfriend (live together) cheated on me a bunch of times using wonderful services such as ashley madison and craigslist-and has recently decided to start attending Sex Addicts Ananomous meetings because he claims to love me.

 

I am in the process of getting therapy and figuring out what i am going to do about this crazy situation, but i find that while I am shocked and hurt and all that, i am also fascinated in this whole world of things i never really paid attention to and the complex dynamics that come into play when people educating myself on all things infidelity, sex addiction, theory of relationships, polyamory, swinging, porn, you name it i have been reading books on it in between my attempts to heal, practical decisions about what to do with the recovering sex addict living in my house who would like to reconcile, and oh yeah regular life and work and all that.

 

So I really am just curious- I really think this guy has absolutely zero clue how much he has just turned my brain inside out- and I was wondering if it was any different for men who had affairs because of love, not one night stands for sex. I figured you ladies would know them the best.