Wife giving up on my needs

[pteromom]

There were a lot of replies to this thread, and I've been given a lot to think about. Here's what I've taken away:

 

I need to let my wife take things at her own pace. My own frustration only makes her feel worse and feeds the cycle of her aversion to sex.

 

I do not agree that wanting sex with your marriage partner is a selfish thing. It's a healthy desire and I've decided to fight against shameful feelings I've developed.

 

I hope that by completely backing away from the issue other than to offer my wife encouragement, things will begin to change. Otherwise I'll just have to suck it up.

 

I wish my wife understood my struggle, but I don't know how to bring it up without upsetting her. I've made an appointment for us to see a counselor in 5 weeks, hopefully that will help.

 

I agree with everything except the "suck it up" part. I think you keep working on it. Yes, work on it gently and kindly, but don't just give up. And I say that as someone who honestly could just live without sex completely if my hubby would "suck it up" and give up. But that's not what I want for him. I don't want my contentment to bring him misery. I want him to be happy too. It is just difficult to balance my desire to make him happy with all my pain and negative feelings about sex and the brokenness of my body.

 

Good luck with the counseling. I haven't had great experiences with them, which is why I rarely recommend them except in cases where someone is suicidal or something.

 

I still think you should take your wife on a beautiful date. Make her feel cherished and loved and special - not for her body or sexuality, but just as a person. That could be very healing.

[Els]

We hug everyday and give each other little pecks on the cheek. We have awkward sex that leaves us both feeling bad about once a month. She doesn't like me to touch her around her vagina at all. She will give me a hj occasionally when I ask for it, but I know she's not into it so I feel scummy asking. She is opposed to oral sex.

 

Sorry, just saw your response.

 

Did you know about these views of hers prior to marriage? Were you okay with them then?

[pteromom]

No, of course she doesn't feel that cuddling is degrading. While we like to cuddle, I don't really experience it as a sexual act, so I don't really see it as a good alternative to sex.

 

It's not an alternative. It's an intimacy builder. Strong intimacy = strong trust = better ability to be vulnerable and trust.

[BostonDave]

Pteromom, you seem to think that there are trust issues at play here. Can you please elaborate?

[BostonDave]

I agree with everything except the "suck it up" part. I think you keep working on it. Yes, work on it gently and kindly, but don't just give up. And I say that as someone who honestly could just live without sex completely if my hubby would "suck it up" and give up. But that's not what I want for him. I don't want my contentment to bring him misery. I want him to be happy too. It is just difficult to balance my desire to make him happy with all my pain and negative feelings about sex and the brokenness of my body.

 

Good luck with the counseling. I haven't had great experiences with them, which is why I rarely recommend them except in cases where someone is suicidal or something.

 

I still think you should take your wife on a beautiful date. Make her feel cherished and loved and special - not for her body or sexuality, but just as a person. That could be very healing.

 

It's not me that is giving up. Like the title of the post says, it'sy wife who is giving up. I'm tired of broaching the subject with her because all it leads to is more pain for both of us. I would do anything I could to support her, and it seems that what she wants most is to not have to deal with the problem. That's why I think my one and only option is to just grin and bare it.

[BostonDave]

Sorry, just saw your response.

 

Did you know about these views of hers prior to marriage? Were you okay with them then?

 

I knew she was opposed to oral sex and was ok with that. Of course, we were having daily penetrative sex at the time, so I was feeling pretty fulfilled.

[pteromom]

She doesn't like me to touch her around her vagina at all.

 

This is likely because it just reminds her of how broken she is. I have no desire to be touched either, since what used to be my favorite sex acts no longer feel good and bring me pain. It is very complex.

 

She will give me a hj occasionally when I ask for it, but I know she's not into it so I feel scummy asking.

 

This is where communication and negotiation comes in. If you tell her how you feel to ask, maybe she'd be willing to just initiate once a week or so. Even if she isn't into sex at all, maybe she would be willing to come seduce you and pull you into the bedroom, even if it is just for a HJ.

 

She is opposed to oral sex.

 

I don't get this, and don't get how oral sex is degrading, but ingrained feelings about sex are hard to change. Would she be willing to do it if you had a condom on? Or just to do it for a few minutes and finish by hand? You need to find enough different things to try so that sex is interesting for you while not being painful for her.

 

Keep working on it.

[TaraMaiden]

We hug everyday and give each other little pecks on the cheek.

 

Why only 'on the cheek' for goodness' sake?

 

You know, kissing is a bonding technique that keeps people intimately connected - it isn't a pre-cursor to sex, it's a connective tool to enable people to cleave together and be open with each other in the deepest way possible. The only people I kiss on the cheek are my blood relatives or close friends...my H. and I always have mouth-to-mouth, whether french kissing is involved or not...

 

We have awkward sex that leaves us both feeling bad about once a month.

What's 'awkward' about it?

Does she withdraw and feel emotionally uncomfortable? Is she reluctant, and hesitant?

Do you feel guilty for wanting intimacy and physical pleasure with her or from her?

 

She doesn't like me to touch her around her vagina at all.

Understandable....

 

She will give me a hj occasionally when I ask for it, but I know she's not into it so I feel scummy asking. She is opposed to oral sex.

 

Ok, rather than shoot these factors down in flames, let's turn it round:

 

What IS she into, for you?

What does she NOT oppose, in order to give you pleasure?

What IS she happy to do, in order to maintain intimacy and closeness?

What DOES she enjoy sharing with you?

 

Ansd how does this differ to before you were married/this was diagnosed?

[pteromom]

Pteromom, you seem to think that there are trust issues at play here. Can you please elaborate?

 

No, I don't necessarily think there are trust issues at play. I am just saying that cuddling and intimacy lead to greater trust, and greater trust increases the chance that she will be able to open up and be vulnerable with you.

 

It's so hard when you feel like you suck at meeting your partner's needs, and it is nice to know he loves you for more than just sex.

 

I'm just saying that it is important to keep working on the romance EVEN IF sex isn't part of it. Because her feeling loved and accepted as she is may lead back to sex.

[pteromom]

It's not me that is giving up. Like the title of the post says, it'sy wife who is giving up. I'm tired of broaching the subject with her because all it leads to is more pain for both of us. I would do anything I could to support her, and it seems that what she wants most is to not have to deal with the problem. That's why I think my one and only option is to just grin and bare it.

 

And I am telling you that it ISN'T your only option.

 

And yes, what you say - what she wants most is to not have to deal with the problem - is VERY true. It hurts. All it does is bring up all those horrible feelings about feeling not-good-enough. About missing what used to be. About being scared that sex will never be enjoyable again.

 

Which is why you have to approach this from a whole different angle.

 

You have to realize that as soon as you "broach the subject", she immediately goes on the defensive. Because it HURTS. As soon as she hears "I just want...", she immediately goes to that place where she feels less-than; not-enough; broken.

 

You have to be gentle and understanding and sweet and loving. You have to make her feel like ENOUGH in other ways.

 

Hope I am explaining myself well here.

[BostonDave]

Taramaiden - you had lots of questions, forgive me if I don't answer them all in this post.

 

I kiss her on the cheek because when we leave in the morning or get home at night, she offers me her cheek. I am for more passionate kissing, but it's not something she shows interest in.

 

Sex is awkward because I know it hurts her, I'm constantly asking if she's ok, and we focus so much on accommodatin her condition that neither of us find the experience very pleasurable. I cannot describe the guilt I feel for desiring and asking for sex.

 

Sexually, I wouldn't say she's "into" anything other than penetrative sex. I don't think she ever enjoyed much else. She doesn't "oppose" handjobs, but see my comment above.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "sharing."

 

Not much is different than it was before her diagnosis except the fact that we used to have an active sexual relationship.

[BostonDave]

And I am telling you that it ISN'T your only option.

 

And yes, what you say - what she wants most is to not have to deal with the problem - is VERY true. It hurts. All it does is bring up all those horrible feelings about feeling not-good-enough. About missing what used to be. About being scared that sex will never be enjoyable again.

 

Which is why you have to approach this from a whole different angle.

 

You have to realize that as soon as you "broach the subject", she immediately goes on the defensive. Because it HURTS. As soon as she hears "I just want...", she immediately goes to that place where she feels less-than; not-enough; broken.

 

You have to be gentle and understanding and sweet and loving. You have to make her feel like ENOUGH in other ways.

 

Hope I am explaining myself well here.

 

I'm trying to understand, but I'm struggling. What I'm talking about giving up on is the hope of having sex. I'll continue to be loving and supportive and I'll never raise the issue with her again, but I'm quite certain that she will not seek treatment under those circumstances.

[stillafool]

We hug everyday and give each other little pecks on the cheek. We have awkward sex that leaves us both feeling bad about once a month. She doesn't like me to touch her around her vagina at all. She will give me a hj occasionally when I ask for it, but I know she's not into it so I feel scummy asking. She is opposed to oral sex.

 

I'm sorry but I think this is ridiculous. It would seem if she loved you she would want to offer some kind of release. You are sacrificing by not being able to penetrate so it would seem only fair that she would do this for you.

[TaraMaiden]

Taramaiden - you had lots of questions, forgive me if I don't answer them all in this post.

 

I kiss her on the cheek because when we leave in the morning or get home at night, she offers me her cheek. I am for more passionate kissing, but it's not something she shows interest in.

This is what is known as a 'red Flag'.

She is withholding intimacy from you for two possble reasons:

 

One: She fears a more personal and intimate kiss will 'lead you on' arouse you and make you want more than she feels able to give,

 

or -

 

Two: She loves you - but is no longer IN love with you - and such a gesture is too much of a betrayal to her own feelings.

It may well even be a combination of the two....

 

 

Sex is awkward because I know it hurts her, I'm constantly asking if she's ok, and we focus so much on accommodatin her condition that neither of us find the experience very pleasurable.

 

Quit asking her.

If you keep focusing on the condition, pretty soon that's all that matters, and neither of your joint emotional/physical needs are met, because "it" gets in the way.

 

I cannot describe the guilt I feel for desiring and asking for sex.

You shouldn't even be 'asking' for sex. You should be in tune with each others' needs to the extent that intimacy - NOT involving penetration - is neither a chore or a guilt-trip. Why the hell should you feel guilty for letting your wife know you desire her? Why should it automatically be that simply because sexual intercourse isn't currently possible, intimacy and closeness is therefore also taboo?

Can you see how you're feeding this irregularity?

 

Sexually, I wouldn't say she's "into" anything other than penetrative sex. I don't think she ever enjoyed much else. She doesn't "oppose" handjobs, but see my comment above.

So she was already relatively vanilla/unadventurous before this occurred?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "sharing."

I mean, what is it you can both do, together, to be satisfied together, without resorting to penetration, and which would both leave you feeling closer, more connected and united?

 

Not much is different than it was before her diagnosis except the fact that we used to have an active sexual relationship.

How often did you have sex?

How long did a "typical session" last?

How enthusiastic, passionate and proactive was she during bouts of sex?

[TaraMaiden]

You're not going to like me for saying this, and put me right if I'm wrong, but:

 

Is it possible she's been 'mis-diagnosed' and actually, she has 'Vaginismus'?

 

Is it further possible (and here's the kicker') that actually, she's putting it on a lot more than it actually bothers her? In other words, is it possible that, either deliberately, or subconsciously, she's exaggerating her symptoms, in order to actually avoid any intimacy with you at all?

 

I'm not trying to state she's a deliberate liar;

 

I AM playing devil's Advocate, because to be brutally honest with you, if I had a condition that impeded my intimacy with my H., I'd be moving hell and high water to find every possible way to either cure it or manage it....

 

Both Eve and Pteromom have worked hard and long to ensure a cohesion and intimacy with their husbands; they've both done everything within their power to maintain an intimate and close relationship with their spouses.

 

I just cannot get my head around the fact that your wife has to all intents and purposes, 'left the building', and has given up.

[pteromom]

I AM playing devil's Advocate, because to be brutally honest with you, if I had a condition that impeded my intimacy with my H., I'd be moving hell and high water to find every possible way to either cure it or manage it....

 

That is easy to say until you live it. It hurts, and when something burns, you don't want to touch it.

[TaraMaiden]

I understand that - as best I can - but what I'm saying is, forgoing physical penetration and vaginal stimulation - I'd be doing everything I could to overcome the condition as best I could - and I'd also want to find ways of perpetuating at least some form of physical closeness with my H in order to perpetuate our intimacy, closeness and sexual connection.

 

In addition to which, I'd do everything within my power to research medical relief and cures, or at least bona-fide ways of managing the condition....

 

The fact that BD's wife seems to have abdicated her role in this relationship, indicates to me a physical AND psychological separation, and a desire - be it conscious or otherwise - to distance herself completely from any intimacy or closeness with him.

[pteromom]

 

The fact that BD's wife seems to have abdicated her role in this relationship, indicates to me a physical AND psychological separation, and a desire - be it conscious or otherwise - to distance herself completely from any intimacy or closeness with him.

 

I don't know his wife, and what you are saying is entirely possible. I don't know the dynamics of their marriage or what resentments have built up. It's possible their situation is nothing like mine.

 

I only know my situation and can only speak from my own experience, and my distance from intimacy has nothing to do with my husband, and everything to do with distancing myself from pain (emotional and psychological more so than physical).

 

Yes, kissing is hard. Because kissing used to turn me on, and now... nothing. And if I were to get turned on, then what? I can't do anything that really works for me, and the things I am able to do without much pain do not do anything for me.

 

And yes, talking to doctors is hard. Because when you go through treatments, and medications, and surgeries, and rehabilitation, and more medications, and counselors, and nothing helps... giving up becomes very attractive.

 

It's a constant battle between wanting to make my husband happy, and trying to protect myself from pain. Guilt and brokenness and sadness and arguments and pain. That is what sex is to me.

 

It sounds dramatic because it is. It is one of the worst things I have ever been through, and I've been through a lot.

[BostonDave]

I want to thank those of you who have stuck around this thread to help me figure out how to approach such a difficult situation.

 

We used to have sex an average of 2-3 times each week. And it was good. We never timed our sessions, but both felt satisfied. We were both passionate.

 

As for vaginismus - this has also been a problem, but seems to be secondary to the vestibulitis. The initial pain due to vestibulitis has lead to an overall tightening/ spasms of her vaginal muscles. Her doctors expect this to improve if the vestibulitis improves.

 

Taramaiden's last post came pretty close to describing the crux of my issue:

 

I would normally expect my wife to move mountains to be a caring partner and to meet my needs. The fact that this problem is due to an illness changes that. I have no reason to think she's exaggerating her symptoms. I trust her and will always give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

The problem is that the best thing I can do to help her is to just back off. Bringing up the topic only makes things worse. It's a catch-22

[GorillaTheater]

How does your husband deal with the situation, Ptero? What could he do to help you?

 

I'll say this: around ten years ago, long story short, I became very ill for a long time, and as a result became very depressed. As a result of that depression, I did not treat my wife and children the way I would have wanted to. I got help, and the situation was repaired.

 

If I did not seek help, and continued to act the way I had, my wife would have been entirely justified in divorcing me, illness or no.

[TaraMaiden]

I want to thank those of you who have stuck around this thread to help me figure out how to approach such a difficult situation.

 

We used to have sex an average of 2-3 times each week. And it was good. We never timed our sessions, but both felt satisfied. We were both passionate.

 

As for vaginismus - this has also been a problem, but seems to be secondary to the vestibulitis. The initial pain due to vestibulitis has lead to an overall tightening/ spasms of her vaginal muscles. Her doctors expect this to improve if the vestibulitis improves.

 

Taramaiden's last post came pretty close to describing the crux of my issue:

 

I would normally expect my wife to move mountains to be a caring partner and to meet my needs. The fact that this problem is due to an illness changes that. I have no reason to think she's exaggerating her symptoms. I trust her and will always give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

The problem is that the best thing I can do to help her is to just back off. Bringing up the topic only makes things worse. It's a catch-22

 

This counselling you've booked, in 5 (!) weeks' time:

I see it's for both of you:

 

How does she feel about counselling?

[pteromom]

How does your husband deal with the situation, Ptero? What could he do to help you?

 

He doesn't deal with it well, which I understand. But we are working on it the best we can. As far as what he could do to help me:

 

NOT offer me advice or suggestions. I already logically know what I should be doing.

 

Make sure I know he loves me and cherishes me and that there is much more to our lives together than sex.

 

Not pressure me or try to talk me into doing things I don't want to do.

 

Be supportive and understanding and kind.

 

Try not to be angry. I understand his feelings and desires, but being angry only makes me feel WORSE about the situation and my issues.

 

Be loving and sweet and kind. Inspire me to WANT to make him happy.

 

Accept me for who I am rather than wish I was who I used to be.

 

He is better at some of these than at others. I am actually glad I responded to this thread, because it has given me a lot to think about, and I have gained a better understanding of my own feelings and my own part in the situation. So thanks, BD, for starting this thread.

[pteromom]

If I did not seek help, and continued to act the way I had, my wife would have been entirely justified in divorcing me, illness or no.

 

I feel my husband would be justified in divorcing me, since I can't meet his sexual needs well. Which is a really crappy feeling when I know I am an awesome person.

[GorillaTheater]

The hell of it is that I agree, you are an awesome person Ptero.

 

I sincerely wish not only BD and his wife, but you and your husband, nothing but resolution, success and happiness.

[BostonDave]

This counselling you've booked, in 5 (!) weeks' time:

I see it's for both of you:

 

How does she feel about counselling?

 

I know 5 weeks is a long time, but it was difficult finding a couples therapist with any availability at all. We've managed for 6 years, what's another 5 weeks.

 

My wife is totally on board with seeking counseling. The main reason I want to go is to figure out how to talk about such a difficult subject in a way that doesn't just make my wife feel inadequate. That's the opposite of what I want to do, but the frustration of not even knowing what's going on with my wife's health and the health of our relationship is making me crazy.