Affair with Friends husband

[aliveagain]

Bingo, rae_lana, abuse as a child has a lot to do with how you turn out as adults, specially if you haven't dealt with the FOO issues. The Family Of Origin(FOO), in other words the family we grew up in as compared to the family we have now, the family that we learned who we are, how to deal with emotions, communication, get our needs met and where you learned your core values. An example, if your family never showed you much love or never made you feel safe than the world today will feel that way. You bring your childhood experiences into your marriage consciously or unconsciously, but yes it can effect your relationship. You associate being liked with giving sex, you want your friend to like you so you do what you know best, you give him sex. Just my opinion as I am no expert but I did survive 4 years with a bipolar master of cheating. Get counseling, your world will change almost immediately and you may be able to stop the biggest mistake of your life.

Edited August 4, 2013 by aliveagain

[aliveagain]

Rae_Lana get a therapist that deals in Psychodrama or Psychodynamic Therapy, they deal with feelings that have been pushed out of conscious awareness. These therapists believe that there is an element of maladaptive behavior in effect even if it is unconscious that it's still present. If it's screaming at you you've got to listen.

[The Way I Am]

Yes I'm figuring that out. I do need to say the words out loud to someone and I'm wondering if doing that will bring the two lives together and ill be able to feel the emotions properly.. I don't know.

 

The best way to find out is to try. You could also try support groups for adult survivors of sexual abuse.

 

I wasn't abused in any way that I know of until I was 10. Once it started it didn't stop until I left at 18. It's hard to explain but there was not a lot of violence it was all sexual and all close friends and family until I started doing drugs to deal and then there was a few stranger encounters.. I had a ****ed up few years. I definitely feel like I'm two different people at the same time. I thought I had come to terms with it all.. I've never talked about 90 percent of what happened I did not think it had anything to do with this but it's pretty much screaming at me now that it's all connected.

 

You just reminded me of the callers on the radio show Love Line with Doctor Drew. Have you ever listened to it? I've only listened a couple dozen times, but almost every time there's been a person who Drew pegs as having sexual abuse in their past based on the way they talk and/or the situation they're describing. Here's pretty much how the conversations go:

 

Drew: Did you have any trauma or abuse in your childhood?

Caller: No. My childhood was good.

Drew: Really? Nothing.

Caller: Well, my uncle molested me when I was 14, but I don't really think that has anything do with this. Do you think that could have affected me?

 

Then Drew explains that yes of course that being abused when you're a child affects how you deal with others and relationships and needs to have professional treatment. It often causes addiction to drugs and alcohol, which is something you've had a problem with, Rae. And it can cause you to be attracted to people who are unhealthy and abusive themselves. The fact that you're turned on by MM cheating on his wife could be directly related to your own abuse. It's possible you could also be self sabotaging by engaging with MM because helping to raise children with a stable man isn't what's comfortable to you.

 

What we all experience when we're growing up is what our brains recognize as "home". Home is what's comfortable to us. So when we're abused when we're still developing, our programming of what to seek out as love can be skewed, and we have to work to reprogram ourselves to seek out people who are not destructive or damaging to us.

 

I do hope you follow through and seek out a therapist. Remember you don't have to stick with the first one. Find someone you feel comfortable with. In your case, I recommend sticking only to female therapists.

Edited August 5, 2013 by The Way I Am

[rae_lana]

You expect us to believe that you only had sex once?

 

Not buying it.

 

Don't care if you do of not. Only had sex once and it was within the first month everything started.. We've been physical.. But only sex once. Has always seemed too risky for a lot of reasons.

[Violet flower]

I haven't read through all pages of the posts to see what's already been said but I read your story about how this started and what it is and wow it resonates with me. I would be judged just as harshly as you have been bc I am in a very similar situation. I have the same over active sex thoughts, am married over 10 years and have a set of married friends that I am super close with. The married h friend and I clicked from day one and were friends for years until we talked one day and just innocently mentioned that we had both at some point fantasized about the other. It was like opening a can of worms. We progressed to hand holding, kissing and not too bad of stuff for 2 years and then to sex for the past year. We can't keep our hands off each other, we try to stop but can't seem to. It was never meant to involve feelings but we now love each other, me more than him I think. We have no plans to leave our spouses and I know that he won't ever leave his. We have said it goes to the grave but it is hard to be in love with two men. My husband is sweet, funny, caring and takes such good care of me, you can't find a better guy (and no he does not deserve this) but i am not sexually attracted to him at all anymore and my other man, is not caring, selfish, pig headed and irresponsible and i cannot stop thinking about him.I know this about them both and know in my head that my other man would never be a good husband but u still wonder. This all still affects your marriage, u still don't give your husband the attention and concern you should. It is not a good situation to be in but it feels like there is no way out. I won't give up my husband but I want my other man for life too which is not realistic, not fair and probably won't work. But you love them both. So I have no advice for you otHer than if you can get out of one, do bc it is so difficult to maintain both and it consumes so much time and effort but I get it if you can't. I can't seem to, I want to but every time I try it hurts too bad so I end up maintaining things how they are. I also just wanted to let u know that I am also best friends with my other mans wife and I have talked to her about their sexless marriage and issues and what not. So I get how u say that u can care so much for her and truly not want to hurt her but still sleep with her husband. There's a disconnect between the two or I don't even know how to describe it but I would never want to hurt her but am doing the very thing that could hurt her the most. I know there was no great wisdom in this and that it may not be helpful but I just wanted u to know that u are not alone and this has happened in a very similar way to someone else.

[LivingWaterPlease]

"but I just wanted u to know that u are not alone and this has happened in a very similar way to someone else.

 

Think this happens more often than we could imagine. Happened in our social circle many years ago. The couple ended up leaving both spouses, married and had three kids. Actually, the pregnancy with the first child was probably the impetus for them to leave their spouses, don't know for sure.

 

They divorced after about 15 yrs. The woman in the couple was so much better off with the first husband, financially, emotionally, probably every way except sexually as there wasn't much sex in that marriage.

[The Way I Am]

I decided to answer from the thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/414164-should-i-tell-2.html#post5110306 here since it's more relevant to Rae than to that thread's OP.

 

I should not have said everyone, I think two people advised against it, I apologies.

I'm not against telling the wife nessisarily I just wondered what the huge different was here. My situations similar. He refused protection and is bi sexual. Which is a huge reason I've only had sex with him once and I made him use protection.. Something he hasn't done in years.

 

Rae, I don't remember you mentioning the MM doesn't use protection when he cheats. I know you said his wife already knows he's a serial cheater, but she doesn't know that part, please tell her if you care about her health.

 

There's actually not much difference between your situation and Crazy_Love's. The difference in the situation is that your MM's W already knows he's a serial cheater. So the info that he's cheating wouldn't be new. I think I advised you originally that you didn't necessarily need to tell your H or his W if you were getting divorced. But that was only if you were getting divorced and when I didn't have the info that he doesn't usually use protection.

 

The main difference here isn't the circumstances, it's CL's actions. She's willing to woman up and do something to get out of the mess. If CL were as adamant about not telling, staying married, staying friend's with MM and his wife, and continuing spending time with MM all while saying she cares most about her friend not getting hurt, I would give her all the same suggestions and flack I gave you.

 

Also, I want to make sure you're not mistaking advising not to tell about the affair for when you were planning to divorce to be together and most people advised you that you shouldn't be the one to break that news to MM's W. That's a totally different animal.

Edited August 6, 2013 by The Way I Am

[rae_lana]

He had mentioned that the only way he could stop thinking about this if we were going to stay in our current marriages was to move away. I have learned he was so serious he's been job hunting in a different town. I'm a little heartbroken but trying to stay realistic..

If its what needs to happen Ill deal. I don't know how to feel. It hurts though.

 

We don't have kids. Maybe it's better this way to make a clean break.

Edited August 6, 2013 by rae_lana

[BetrayedH]

He had mentioned that the only way he could stop thinking about this if we were going to stay in our current marriages was to move away. I have learned he was so serious he's been job hunting in a different town. I'm a little heartbroken but trying to stay realistic..

If its what needs to happen Ill deal. I don't know how to feel. It hurts though.

 

We don't have kids. Maybe it's better this way to make a clean break.

 

He's right that your affair will never really end while you are still in contact with each other. Your marriages would also never really have a chance to heal. It would be never-ending.

 

I think one of the biggest problems for you is that you don't even have a "best case scenario" in mind. So then, you have nothing to work towards. In my mind, the best scenario is to give everyone the honest truth so that each person can make an informed decision about how to move forward with their lives. Then you let the chips fall where they may, having given at least some measure of respect to everyone involved. What is your best-case scenario?

[ComingInHot]

MOM is moving? How sad for you... You are going to have to say goodbye to your very bestest girlfriend whose H you're sleeping with.

 

One the bright side, you won't have to sneak around anymore...

[rae_lana]

He thinks moving is the right choice.. With or with out me. Says its up to me, he'll move with his wife if I decide we should stay in our marriages. I'm so shocked. I feel helpless and sick. I know I'm getting no sympathy from anyone else but this hurts. I feel like he convinced me to fall in love and now it's being taken away. I don't have children but I do have family that are still young and I would be completely abandoning them if I was to leave.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

He thinks moving is the right choice.. With or with out me. Says its up to me, he'll move with his wife if I decide we should stay in our marriages. I'm so shocked. I feel helpless and sick. I know I'm getting no sympathy from anyone else but this hurts. I feel like he convinced me to fall in love and now it's being taken away. I don't have children but I do have family that are still young and I would be completely abandoning them if I was to leave.

 

That makes no sense. He's putting the ball completely in your court? If you leave your H I'll leave my wife, if not I'm moving anyway and we'll all stay married? So the only thing he's sure of is that he's moving. He didn't have to convince you to fall in love, you own that. You also both know that you are married, so either you leave your spouses or you stay married and continue tha A or you end the A. Those are really the only choices, I don't get what other outcome you could have possibly imagined.

 

Either way, it sounds like the ball is in your court! It's your choice! What ever you want, atleast our not being lied to, manipulated and given no choice. You're in the drivers seat, what do YOU want?

[rae_lana]

Well.. I don't want to feel like this, that's all I know. Maybe I'm in shock. Isn't this like saying I love you I choose you.. But only if you choose me too, if not I choose my wife because I love her too and I don't want to be alone.

 

I guess he's really saying he can't deal with the way it is and he wants to change the dynamic drastically. I feel like my heart was ripped out.

 

Contrary to popular belief I do have feelings.

[aliveagain]

Think hard girl, your betting your world on a serial cheater, really?

 

How do you know he's not saying you'll do until I find somebody better?

Edited August 7, 2013 by aliveagain

[stillafool]

Well.. I don't want to feel like this, that's all I know. Maybe I'm in shock. Isn't this like saying I love you I choose you.. But only if you choose me too, if not I choose my wife because I love her too and I don't want to be alone.

 

I guess he's really saying he can't deal with the way it is and he wants to change the dynamic drastically. I feel like my heart was ripped out.

 

Contrary to popular belief I do have feelings.

 

Aren't you doing the same thing? If you love MM why not come clean and leave your H for him? You don't have kids so what's the hold up? You said you are in love with him, what is holding you back? The ball is clearly in your court.

[rae_lana]

This is not a compliment.. Lets destroy all their lives and leave together, or else lets pretend this never happened and I'm going to move away and live happily ever after with her..

 

He has not said a word about feeling bad. Only that he agrees that he fell hard for me and this wasn't just about sex.. But he loves her too. If I don't want to marry him he'd like to stay with her. But he's willing to tell my husband and her and have everyone hate us and move away with me too.. Those are not similar options at all.

 

I'm just shocked that's all.. I didn't expect this. I don't like either option and I feel horrible right now.

 

No we don't have biological kids.. But I've tried to explain there is children involved that both of us have been involved in raising and leaving means probably not seeing them ever again,

[IfWishesWereHorses]

This is not a compliment.. Lets destroy all their lives and leave together, or else lets pretend this never happened and I'm going to move away and live happily ever after with her..

 

He has not said a word about feeling bad. Only that he agrees that he fell hard for me and this wasn't just about sex.. But he loves her too. If I don't want to marry him he'd like to stay with her. But he's willing to tell my husband and her and have everyone hate us and move away with me too.. Those are not similar options at all.

 

I'm just shocked that's all.. I didn't expect this. I don't like either option and I feel horrible right now.

 

No we don't have biological kids.. But I've tried to explain there is children involved that both of us have been involved in raising and leaving means probably not seeing them ever again,

 

What would you like to happen? What direction would be less painful for you? You're not helpless here, he seems to care about you, why not suggest your own outcome?

[Trimmer]

That makes no sense. He's putting the ball completely in your court? If you leave your H I'll leave my wife, if not I'm moving anyway and we'll all stay married? So the only thing he's sure of is that he's moving. He didn't have to convince you to fall in love, you own that. You also both know that you are married, so either you leave your spouses or you stay married and continue tha A or you end the A. Those are really the only choices, I don't get what other outcome you could have possibly imagined.

I think she imagined "stopping the affair and going back to the way things were in the two marriages and never speaking of it again", which I believe a number of us told her was highly unlikely, to the point of being impossible. However, it was the only outcome she imagined in which she could keep the most of what she wanted in her life, and so it was the one she steadfastly clung to, which is why she was unable to consider any of the other possibilities.

 

She argued that some people keep affairs secret, so she would be able to. (Against our advice that they almost always dribble out somehow.) She argued that she and her OM had agreed to never speak of it again, but she didn't count on him doing something that didn't match her image of how it would play out, and not settling down back to the status quo quietly. So she never realistically considered these other possibilities, which now seem, well, kinda obvious, right?.

 

So now that her preferred fantasy is gone, it's a huge shock that these other scenarios have become the leading candidate outcomes.

 

Either way, it sounds like the ball is in your court! It's your choice! What ever you want, at least you're not being lied to, manipulated and given no choice.

Yes, unlike a full 50% of the people involved in these two marriages.

 

This is not a compliment.. Lets destroy all their lives and leave together, or else lets pretend this never happened and I'm going to move away and live happily ever after with her..

Believe me, as I've been telling you, their lives are already damaged; they just don't know it yet. You've set in motion an infection here, and you had yourself convinced that you all could live happily ever after by ignoring it, but that wasn't ever going to be the case. And now, you're still bargaining, imagining that one outcome or the other might have a happy ending for one side or the other, but I think that because of the underlying infection, no matter what choices are made, nobody is going to come out of this undamaged.

 

Also, regarding his "pretend this never happened and move away" option: he may imagine that he can run away from the responsibility of what he's done like that, but do you really think she won't figure it out and put it all together eventually? Since you know exactly what's going on, you will have to double down on your lies to her, as she agonizes over why her husband is apparently, unilaterally breaking up their life near you, and whatever reasons he comes up with to explain it to her will sound hollow and empty to her - because that's what life-changing lies sound like. And, you'll have to double down on your lies to your husband as well, pretending like you don't know why, or maybe agreeing to support whatever lies your OM comes up with for reasoning.

 

Will you decide to act super-sad that they're leaving, possibly drawing attention to your closeness to him, and adding to the evidence of an affair? Can you pull off sad-like-a-friend without showing devastated-like-a-spurned-lover? Can you find that line? Or will you avoid that difficulty by trying to go the nonchalant direction, like it's OK and life goes on? Are you a good enough actor to pull off all the lies that this will require, now that the hidden strife and pain will all be so much closer to the surface? Are you sure your OM won't break? He's already showing signs of the strain...

 

Don't assume they're naive idiots. They will put it together eventually. It's already starting to crumble: something will break. His fantasy of running away to make it like this never happened won't hold.

 

He has not said a word about feeling bad. Only that he agrees that he fell hard for me and this wasn't just about sex.. But he loves her too. If I don't want to marry him he'd like to stay with her. But he's willing to tell my husband and her and have everyone hate us and move away with me too.. Those are not similar options at all.

You know how I pointed out that the only outcome you considered earlier was the one where you got mostly what you wanted, and you didn't consider the other (more realistic) possibilities?

 

I think he's doing exactly that now. He's got this fantasy that he's got two possibilities, and in either one, he essentially gets a happy ending: in one, he gets you, and runs away from all his troubles to start a new life - magical! In the other, he keeps his wife, and runs away from all his troubles to start a new life - magical once again!

 

I'm just shocked that's all.. I didn't expect this. I don't like either option and I feel horrible right now.

Like you, he hasn't considered another, possibly more realistic outcome: His wife finds out about this marital infection, (it's seeming more likely now, isn't it?), and finds her self respect and decides to dump him (and likely you, as a "friend", as well.) And you decide - with the burden of all the drama and damage, and now finally seeing him for who he really is - not to go with him either.

 

I'm not meaning to be glib, but I found during the 10-year slow motion train wreck that was the end of my marriage, that once you set this kind of infection in motion, it just keeps plodding along, and each time you think you've hit the bottom, it can still get worse.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Trimmer

[rae_lana]

This was all a huge mistake. It's hard to explain but him saying all this is completely different than who he was just a few months ago.. I feel like he just said everything I wanted to hear.

This was a huge mistake.. I wish I could take it back.. No I'm not moving anywhere with him.

I have no idea what he's thinking and he will not talk about it just says I should tell him what I want. But I have. He doesn't want to make the choice he wants it made for him?? What?? It's like I'm talking to a different person. Right now he's acting as if this never happened, playing dumb, job hunting and waiting for me to tell him what to do? And she's excited about new horizons.

Edited August 8, 2013 by rae_lana

[aliveagain]

You can't control other people, what's your plan if Other Man tells his wife about your affair some drunken night? How can you ever be absolutely sure that he will keep your secret? Men talk, they brag when their drunk, you can never be sure a third person will keep a secret that is so important to you secret. You will always live with that fear, they might even use the information against you to control you. You can never know what someone without boundaries might do, look at his past history with his wife.

[rae_lana]

You can't control other people, what's your plan if Other Man tells his wife about your affair some drunken night? How can you ever be absolutely sure that he will keep your secret? Men talk, they brag when their drunk, you can never be sure a third person will keep a secret that is so important to you secret. You will always live with that fear, they might even use the information against you to control you. You can never know what someone without boundaries might do, look at his past history with his wife.

 

I do. I feel terrible right now and very scared that will happen. This was all a huge mistake and he doesn't seem to think it was at all.

[rae_lana]

This is what reminds me of 'grass isn't always greener' because if you GOT this guy, although you say you don't want him...it would only be a matter of time until the new and forbidden would rub off and both of you would stray again.

Why destroy your spouses? Stop this and either stay with your spouses or get the heck out, but no one deserves what you two are doing, except you two.

 

Trust me, you are no more special to him than the next chick will be. Or the last one. I feel bad for your spouses, and neither of you have any business being married if you cant commit to one person and keep your hands to yourselves. Sorry, but this is pretty dang low down.

 

I know. I will not be the last secret relationship he has no matter who he ends up with. I know that.

[rae_lana]

You can't control other people, what's your plan if Other Man tells his wife about your affair some drunken night? How can you ever be absolutely sure that he will keep your secret? Men talk, they brag when their drunk, you can never be sure a third person will keep a secret that is so important to you secret. You will always live with that fear, they might even use the information against you to control you. You can never know what someone without boundaries might do, look at his past history with his wife.

 

Right now my plan would be to deny it

[Trimmer]

This was all a huge mistake. It's hard to explain but him saying all this is completely different than who he was just a few months ago.. I feel like he just said everything I wanted to hear.

This was a huge mistake.. I wish I could take it back.. No I'm not moving anywhere with him.

I have no idea what he's thinking and he will not talk about it just says I should tell him what I want. But I have. He doesn't want to make the choice he wants it made for him?? What?? It's like I'm talking to a different person. Right now he's acting as if this never happened, playing dumb, job hunting and waiting for me to tell him what to do? And she's excited about new horizons.

I wonder if at some point, once you are away from immediate involvement in the affair, and you have a chance to review your feelings, if you will start to recover your protective feelings toward your friend, and resentful that she isn't aware of who she is really married to, how he can just waltz away and get away with that without any remorse, etc. I wonder, with the wisdom of time, if you'll start to believe she deserves to know the truth...

 

Edited to add:

Right now my plan would be to deny it

Ahh, this cross posted with my post here.

 

So that give me my answer. For now.

[rae_lana]

I wonder if at some point, once you are away from immediate involvement in the affair, and you have a chance to review your feelings, if you will start to recover your protective feelings toward your friend, and resentful that she isn't aware of who she is really married to, how he can just waltz away and get away with that without any remorse, etc. I wonder, with the wisdom of time, if you'll start to believe she deserves to know the truth...

 

It's already crossed my mind. It had during this whole thing..