Can you be more than OW

[haiku]

Thanks Got It.

 

Yeah I don't disagree with what people are saying about a BS who is actually betrayed. I would feel differently if that was the case. This BS was fine with it. She only decided to use it to manipulate the situation when it looked like she could use it to benefit her ( $, sympathy, whatever...).

 

I was ready to cut clean but then I talked to him to at least let him know I wasn't just MIA. Now I don't know what to do. If this had happened to him before we got involved, we were close enough friends I would have been there for support.

 

Where is the head against a brick wall emoticon when you need it?

[Got it]

Thanks Got It.

 

Yeah I don't disagree with what people are saying about a BS who is actually betrayed. I would feel differently if that was the case. This BS was fine with it. She only decided to use it to manipulate the situation when it looked like she could use it to benefit her ( $, sympathy, whatever...).

 

I was ready to cut clean but then I talked to him to at least let him know I wasn't just MIA. Now I don't know what to do. If this had happened to him before we got involved, we were close enough friends I would have been there for support.

 

Where is the head against a brick wall emoticon when you need it?

 

I think the best thing is to make sure you both are communicating properly and you decide what is best for you. You guys may need to pull back some, put a pin in the relationship, or able to balance everything including the relationship. Be honest with him, tell him what you are feelings and you guys come up with a game plan.

[2sure]

His wife was ok with the PA , he had her permission. But he asked for a divorce and she said no.

 

I would step aside until he is making his own decisions. As it Stands now, his wife is making them for both of you.

[canuckprincess]

Canuck, check back with us in a few years....most relationships that start as affairs do not last, they just do not. The fog is not a BS, we are the ones most grounded in what it really is as we are the ones that usually see through the crap the WS and OW try to throw at us to defend their behavior...we choose to forgive and reconcile but we do understand the amount of deception it takes to have an affair...deception as a starting point of a relationship is unhealthy.....look at the stats, if you are defying them, then good for you...

 

I beg to differ, I know plenty of relationships that started as affairs and have lasted. Like any relationship there is always a chance it could end. I have been with mm for more then 7 and a half years so trust me we know everything about one another. But I guess only time will tell.

[Lovebirdy]

Ehm, excuse me, but what's up with the gratuitous use of slang around here? I have no idea what's going on in this thread, is there a dictionary of local terms anywhere? I mean look at this: OW, PA, NC, MM, EMR, D, W, FTR, and heck, even BS, which here apparently doesn't mean what it usually does. All i can say is WTF?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Ultimately, you need to do, what you need to do, but I feel compelled to share statistics on this. Many posters are talking of their own experience, but really the odds of making a lasting relationship born of an affair is about 1%. See article below.

 

I also want to explore the "fog" comment because the poster seems to lack an understanding of the finer points.

 

The Fog is generally the description of the behaviors and actions that are driven in part by the chemicals the body releases that produce the "in love" feelings when someone is attracted to someone. Those chemicals are natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. It makes people feel very intense romantic, and in some cases delusional feelings. Those chemicals do not "fire" indefinitely and when they stop what is left is the decision to invest in a relationship (choice) or not.

 

A similar reaction happens when someone leaves someone. Chemical reaction, biology, nature.

 

I don't think that BS can be accused of "owning" their spouses. Because they do indeed have a legally recognized contractural agreement. Severing or changing of that agreement is fully within their rights.

 

 

 

 

Because the odds are against you

You should know that the odds are heavily against going from an affair to a long-term, lasting relationship. Some research suggests that about only one in 10 affairs lead to a long-term relationship. Of these, only about 10% are permanent. This means that there is about a one in a hundred chance that you and your affair partner will stay together for the long haul. And you thought the approximately 50% divorce rate was high!

 

One reason for this dismal statistic is that when a relationship begins with an affair, both parties know the other has been willing to betray their spouse, so they lack trust in each other.

 

Read more: Why Your Affair Will Never Lead To True Love - AskMen

[haiku]

Ehm, excuse me, but what's up with the gratuitous use of slang around here? I have no idea what's going on in this thread, is there a dictionary of local terms anywhere? I mean look at this: OW, PA, NC, MM, EMR, D, W, FTR, and heck, even BS, which here apparently doesn't mean what it usually does. All i can say is WTF?

 

Shockingly we all seemed to understand each other. And yes there is a sticky. Did you have an on topic question?

[haiku]

Ultimately, you need to do, what you need to do, but I feel compelled to share statistics on this. Many posters are talking of their own experience, but really the odds of making a lasting relationship born of an affair is about 1%. See article below.

 

I also want to explore the "fog" comment because the poster seems to lack an understanding of the finer points.

 

The Fog is generally the description of the behaviors and actions that are driven in part by the chemicals the body releases that produce the "in love" feelings when someone is attracted to someone. Those chemicals are natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. It makes people feel very intense romantic, and in some cases delusional feelings. Those chemicals do not "fire" indefinitely and when they stop what is left is the decision to invest in a relationship (choice) or not.

 

A similar reaction happens when someone leaves someone. Chemical reaction, biology, nature.

 

I don't think that BS can be accused of "owning" their spouses. Because they do indeed have a legally recognized contractural agreement. Severing or changing of that agreement is fully within their rights.

 

Thanks, It. I've read that one. Hence, why I feel like such an moron : )

 

I have a plan now for working on me which will be beneficial in the long run no matter what else happens with this situation. So I'm putting my own oxygen mask on first.

 

I did address my actual feelings with him and we both feel better after that. I had some other issues going on this week that left me a little less rational than usual. Thanks you guys for giving me some good things to think about.

[So happy together]

WOW! NICE! How bout just bring the OW home and screw her in the wife's bed when you expect her to come home from work! That'll convince her the marriage is over!

 

 

Hmm. My boyfriend convinced her the marriage was over by leaving. And yes, it did make her hurt worse because she just couldn't believe he could leave her. She's such a prize, after all!! Right.

 

Let's all just admit that most of the time when a person leaves the marriage (if they are not a serial cheater) it is because of unhappiness therein.

 

It's always everyone else's fault the marriage failed except the 'poor BS'. Give me a break. They are part of the dynamic. Personally I don't know why a BS would want to give away that kind of power. Seems counterproductive.

[canuckprincess]

Canuck I've seen you mention the above bolded a couple of times. You even started a thread about it on the infidelity board. I'm curious to know why this is so important to you. What do you think would be different about your situation if your MM's BS asked him what would make him happy? Do you think he would tell her that you would make him happy and then he would pack his sh*t, leave her and come to you? Do you think he would tell her his deepest most hidden needs and desires and she would work on fulfilling those needs and then he would leave you? Just wondering why you think asking the WS what would make them happy is the big solution to everything. Also why can't the WS just tell the BS what would make them happy? Why is everyone involved waiting for the BS to ask?

 

To be quite honest according to my mm she has never asked if he was happy. I'm not saying he's unhappy in his marriage, in fact that's what makes our situation so strange. My mm truly loves two woman. Oh and for the record I never asked him to leave her in fact I said I wanted out and that's what changed the relationship after 6 years. When I date single guys he goes nuts, and makes it impossible to start a relationship with a single available man.

 

On a side note, isn't this a ow/om support forum? So if your a bs and you can't handle the truth then stop reading our threads!

[Summer Breeze]

Ultimately, you need to do, what you need to do, but I feel compelled to share statistics on this. Many posters are talking of their own experience, but really the odds of making a lasting relationship born of an affair is about 1%. See article below.

 

I also want to explore the "fog" comment because the poster seems to lack an understanding of the finer points.

 

The Fog is generally the description of the behaviors and actions that are driven in part by the chemicals the body releases that produce the "in love" feelings when someone is attracted to someone. Those chemicals are natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. It makes people feel very intense romantic, and in some cases delusional feelings. Those chemicals do not "fire" indefinitely and when they stop what is left is the decision to invest in a relationship (choice) or not.

 

A similar reaction happens when someone leaves someone. Chemical reaction, biology, nature.

 

I don't think that BS can be accused of "owning" their spouses. Because they do indeed have a legally recognized contractural agreement. Severing or changing of that agreement is fully within their rights.

 

 

In regards to the article. The article started with 'don't never' in the subtitle and honestly that set the tone. Then I got to the actual research -- 'some research suggests'. Ok what research? And it 'suggests'? Why wasn't it definitive with the participants? My thoughts on this article -- NEXT! The only research that anyone seems to have found is that study with 2,000 highly successful businessmen and it didn't have anything in it that was reflective of real life. An A turning into an out in the open R may or may not work and it may or may not have anything to do with trust. DMM and I have no issues with trust but it's been a real challenge building an R almost from scratch. I would imagine a lot of As don't end in M because some will end while two people navigate the changes in the R. Not every R ends in M so why would automatically expect an A to?

 

IIWII I'm not asking you to answer those questions and I'm not having a go at you at all. They're more rhetorical than anything. I totally agree that being in an A isn't the road to happily ever after but I have never seen a study that has enough credibility to overshadow all of the people I've met through life that have in fact have had long Rs that were started in As.

 

I also agree that no one in any R 'owns' the other. Period. We all make the decisions to be where we are at any time. As my friend always says about her unhappy R--there's a tradeoff and I'm willing to live with it. Nothing to do with an A BTW.

 

To the OP. Yes there can be life with MM beyond an A but it's really tough. I was with DMM in an A for 2 years and I ended it when I wasn't happy. For almost 5 years we were apart and I never once contacted him. He sent messages periodically and flowers for my birthday and Valentine's Day. He eventually chose to leave. He moved out and filed for D. He sent me a message a few months into it with copies of his D papers attached. I never opened the message til about 6 months later. Right before his D was final we met and when it was final we decided to move forward. Months and months of counselling for him and quite an amount for me too. We're doing really well right now but up til recently I wasn't sure we were going to make it.

 

My point is. It can work but it's not easy. I was losing myself in the A so ended it. I think it was almost harder leaving him than leaving my xH who cheated on me years ago. I'm not the kind of girl to lose myself though. I never, ever expected him to leave his M. It's not likely it'll work for many but sometimes it does.

[whichwayisup]

I think the reason I would like to go NC is to give space and give time for a clear break to be established. We are also both parents to children who can read words and feelings.

 

I do feel like I am abandoning him a bit but at the same time there not going to be much quality in the relationship for me. They are still living together.

 

All the more reason to focus on you and let him figure it out. You don't have to go complete NC but DO distance yourself from him and detach enough that you can function completely fine without him on a daily basis and not freak out or get upset if 3 days goes by and you two don't talk.

 

Doing this gives you some control (not in a game playing way) back and gives your own life to focus on, not get sucked in and wrapped into his stuff, a divorce etc. Fact is, he is still living with his wife. May I ask? Do they do stuff together? Family outings, dinners with family and inlaws? Visit friends together? If yes, then they are still very much husband and wife. If not, then they lead separate lives yet live under the same roof.

 

You are not abandoning him at all if you take a step back and allow him the space and time to do what he needs to do.

[Got it]

So you haven't been the only OW. My question is, why would you want a man that can't stay faithful? If you ever ended up marrying him in the future, you'd more than likely become a BS. The idea that he wouldn't cheat on you only works with guys like him while the relationship is fairly new.

 

They had both had consensual affairs. I am confused by your comment to the OP. So it was more of an open marriage, not a serial cheater (FYI - if it was consensual it isn't cheating).

[Got it]

If it was an open marriage and OP is ok with snagging this kind of man that would want that openness, then ok.

 

So let me rephrase the question to OP. Do you want a man that will want to have sex with other people if you ever do end up with him?

 

And that can vary from relationship to relationship. Yes he could want to continue to have an open relationship. Or, he may agree/decide that in another relationship he doesn't want or is willing to not have an open relationship.

 

They were consensual so apparently both having other relationships was met with mutual satisfaction. This may vary as these individuals partner with other individuals. Some people decide that they will choose to be monogamous, some will stand firm on only being in an open relationship.

 

I would also argue that the OP is already in said relationship with a partner that is having sex with others and seems to be fine with it. Potentially she may change her mind on that but presently she seems to consent.

 

My main point is you made assumptions in the first referenced post that assumed a certain situation and outcome that wasn't based on what was being written.

[haiku]

I guess my thread title should have been "OMG somebody please help me through this cluster*%! "

 

At this point I'm so angry with BS for the way she has mistreated him that I don't think I can be more than OW since I'd have to see her and I'd probably want to punch her. And I don't need to go to jail. I don't mean how she's treated him over the D situation, I mean her whole attitude towards him and things she personally told me over the years that all added up to a selfish, sorry person.

 

 

which way is up - yes I have made it three days ; )

I don't know if they are still living together as of right now. If they were it was due to financial reasons. But even six months ago they did very little together. We've had several conversations over the years about our solo outings with our kids. I've been around the whole family and her emotional unavailability towards them all was obvious.

 

Summer- Thank you for sharing your story- I have thought if this was going to work we are going to have to have a bunch of counseling.

[haiku]

Alexandria - Re: living together - It's just been a few weeks since we discussed it since we are LC. He hasn't been deceptive, I just haven't asked. As far as family only he and BS know I am OW. I was just a friend for several years.

[Got it]

You don't know if your MM is living with his wife? How is that possible? Did he tell you he isn't but you don't believe him?

 

Also since you have been around the whole family do you worry about how you will be perceived by this family if you were to become more than the OW?

 

This isn't always an issue. It really depends on the dynamics of all involved. In my situation, they did not have a close relationship with his ex wife due to her lack of interest as well as her affair. His family had wanted to be closer to them but they said that she rebuffed their attempts so it just coasted through.

 

So when she tried to garner support from his family it pretty much fell on deaf ears. They were sorry that she was hurting but with how she treated him during her affair, the way she treated him throughout their relationship, etc. they didn't have much loyalty towards her. I have gotten along well with them, they see how happy their son/brother/cousin is, and while they are sympathetic for how she felt there just wasn't anything to salvage. And taking up arms against him would definitely been out of the picture. They had zero reason at that point to help relay to keep the marriage going.

 

Now, I have a really good relationship with his mother and his siblings.

[haiku]

This isn't always an issue. It really depends on the dynamics of all involved. In my situation, they did not have a close relationship with his ex wife due to her lack of interest as well as her affair. His family had wanted to be closer to them but they said that she rebuffed their attempts so it just coasted through.

 

So when she tried to garner support from his family it pretty much fell on deaf ears. They were sorry that she was hurting but with how she treated him during her affair, the way she treated him throughout their relationship, etc. they didn't have much loyalty towards her. I have gotten along well with them, they see how happy their son/brother/cousin is, and while they are sympathetic for how she felt there just wasn't anything to salvage. And taking up arms against him would definitely been out of the picture. They had zero reason at that point to help relay to keep the marriage going.

 

Now, I have a really good relationship with his mother and his siblings.

 

Yeah pretty much same here as far as I can tell.

[Summer Breeze]

I guess my thread title should have been "OMG somebody please help me through this cluster*%! "

 

At this point I'm so angry with BS for the way she has mistreated him that I don't think I can be more than OW since I'd have to see her and I'd probably want to punch her. And I don't need to go to jail. I don't mean how she's treated him over the D situation, I mean her whole attitude towards him and things she personally told me over the years that all added up to a selfish, sorry person.

 

 

which way is up - yes I have made it three days ; )

I don't know if they are still living together as of right now. If they were it was due to financial reasons. But even six months ago they did very little together. We've had several conversations over the years about our solo outings with our kids. I've been around the whole family and her emotional unavailability towards them all was obvious.

 

Summer- Thank you for sharing your story- I have thought if this was going to work we are going to have to have a bunch of counseling.

 

Remember that you need to make decisions for yourself like he does. Neither of you can stay in the R because of guilt or any reason other than you want to be. If you ever need to talk let me know.

[So happy together]

In regards to the article. The article started with 'don't never' in the subtitle and honestly that set the tone. Then I got to the actual research -- 'some research suggests'. Ok what research? And it 'suggests'? Why wasn't it definitive with the participants? My thoughts on this article -- NEXT! The only research that anyone seems to have found is that study with 2,000 highly successful businessmen and it didn't have anything in it that was reflective of real life. An A turning into an out in the open R may or may not work and it may or may not have anything to do with trust. DMM and I have no issues with trust but it's been a real challenge building an R almost from scratch. I would imagine a lot of As don't end in M because some will end while two people navigate the changes in the R. Not every R ends in M so why would automatically expect an A to?

 

IIWII I'm not asking you to answer those questions and I'm not having a go at you at all. They're more rhetorical than anything. I totally agree that being in an A isn't the road to happily ever after but I have never seen a study that has enough credibility to overshadow all of the people I've met through life that have in fact have had long Rs that were started in As.

 

I also agree that no one in any R 'owns' the other. Period. We all make the decisions to be where we are at any time. As my friend always says about her unhappy R--there's a tradeoff and I'm willing to live with it. Nothing to do with an A BTW.

 

To the OP. Yes there can be life with MM beyond an A but it's really tough. I was with DMM in an A for 2 years and I ended it when I wasn't happy. For almost 5 years we were apart and I never once contacted him. He sent messages periodically and flowers for my birthday and Valentine's Day. He eventually chose to leave. He moved out and filed for D. He sent me a message a few months into it with copies of his D papers attached. I never opened the message til about 6 months later. Right before his D was final we met and when it was final we decided to move forward. Months and months of counselling for him and quite an amount for me too. We're doing really well right now but up til recently I wasn't sure we were going to make it.

 

My point is. It can work but it's not easy. I was losing myself in the A so ended it. I think it was almost harder leaving him than leaving my xH who cheated on me years ago. I'm not the kind of girl to lose myself though. I never, ever expected him to leave his M. It's not likely it'll work for many but sometimes it does.

 

I loved this post. I think... maybe people on LS think I am professing to just 'sail along'. My bf has had to do a lot of self inventory. He's been in therapy. It's not been a piece of cake. We've had small issues. But... it has been worth it. That is what I wish to convey. He's happy, I'm happy. I hope that someday BS will find a way to be happy, but before that happens she'll have to work on herself, and she is a hot mess.

 

We spend a lot of time talking through things, making sure we are doing what will help us be an open, loving couple. It's not easy.

 

I guess the only difference is, I definitely did expect him to leave. I'm glad he finally did what made him happy.

[LilGirlandOW]

SoHappy,

 

I love that you and MM ended up together, others may resent hearing about it, but I love that you have the ending that you hoped for The ending I had hoped for myself

[So happy together]

SoHappy,

 

I love that you and MM ended up together, others may resent hearing about it, but I love that you have the ending that you hoped for The ending I had hoped for myself

 

Aww, Thank you!