I dont know what else to say to her anymore! I want more than friends!

[Shepp]

First: Sorry this is quite long, most of its just one conversation thou!

 

 

I’ve written about me and her before here (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/friends-lovers/379489-i-m-so-love-her-will-she-ever-let-us-more-than-friends) but if you cantbe bothered to read more of my rambling than you have to the gist is:

• We’ve been friends for 4 years, since we were 15.
  
• She’s completely stunning, smart, hilarious. Flip side she’s also a bit self destructive & a massive flirt.
  
• We're close. She hasn’t really got anyone else, her mum died when she was 13, her dads a waste of space. She acts so tough to everyone but me
  
• She jumps from guy to guy, most are just a one night thing, she never really gives a sh*t about them
  

So was planning a week away with some mates, stay in alog cabin one of my buddies folks own in a forest, mountain bike, fish, thatkinda thing only I couldn’t get my holiday to match theres so me and her went up3 days earlier.

It was mega hot so we went for a walk late one eveningcame to like this old castle ruins, I think its privately owned cause it has afence on one side and a lake on the other and they charge people entry in theday, thou I guess the state might do that to? – (not that who owns the castlein important to this question, haha)!

 

So then she goes to me like “cmon alfie wanna be lord ofthe castle?” To which I was like no and we to and fro’d on that for a bit, tocut a long story short she was in the water and I could exactly leave her to itso I told her I was gonna kill her one day and in the end we ended up on thetop of this like broken down turret thing.

Which annoys the hell out of me but not gonna lie is alsowhat I love about her, im a stubborn git but she pushes me, she shakes my worldup.

 

So we’re sitting up there talking I don’t remember whatabout and then she goes to me “want a tip? Your sexier when your just being youthan when your playing the funny guy”, I didn’t and still don’t know it that’s acompliment but she assured me it was and then started kissing me. We fooledaround for a while, went to sleep, woke up in the morning, I told her id shouther breakfast, we ate, it was good, blah blah blah.

 

And then we get back to the cabin and I just went for it (I’lltry and remember the conversation as best as poss)…

 

Me: So last night was fun

Her: Yeah

Me: So explain to me one more time why we’re not together?

Her: ahh Alfie look, I shouldn’t of kissed you that was wrong but you’ve gotta understand its hard for me too sometimes, I love you butI have to balance that with doing what I have to.

Me: which is what? Cause this hurts Al, your killing me here.

Her: protect you, from me – cause ill screw it up. And protect myself cause I don’t know what id do without you.

Me; What are u saying? You’d cheat on me? Cause if youloved me like I love you you wouldn’t do that.

Her: no never, id never do that. But the fact of it is Alfie I break everything I touch sometimes directly sometimes not but everyone leavesone way or another – and I cant do that again I cant deal with that again –I’ve explained this before, its selfish, but I am selfish.

Me: You tell me I worry about the future to much, but you’rethe one who wont live in the present, life is so short Alex and you know thatbetter than anyone but your not living it.

Her: That’s cause your futures all laid out in front ofyou, all you’ve ever had to do is head in a straight line, great family, class clown, captain of the football team, fireman. People would queue round the street for your funeral Alfie. Its like everything connects, the rain, theplants, the birds, people everything, you connect Alfie, to everyone else. But notme, something broke inside me, I act around people every single day of my lifecause I don’t connect Alf.

Me: But I connect to you Al, I get you. I love you!

Her: You love me when im the girl who makes you laugh,makes out with you and breaks into castles with you, you don’t love me when I have mood swings or get wasted and ruining your night cause you have to look afterme or when I’ve rung you at 2am cause im upset.

Me: your wrong Alex, I never ever stop loving you, sometimes you drive me up the wall but I still love you.

Her: There’s no guy in the world who can understand me better than you do, I never feel like I need to hold back while talking to you, you never let me down and I promise you that it would be me punching above my weight if we were together I just can’tput my heart on the line Alf.

 

 

And thenshe just changes the topic like oh I bought you some sticky toffee pudding, and I was like “You cant just expect me to forget about this” and thenshe said “Alfie just drop it I cant do this now” and her voice broke and I cantdo that, I cant make her cry so I dropped it and we ate sticky toffee pudding.

 

I just don’t know where we go from here, ive alwayshad so much I wanted to say to her and now ive said it all I, I know people don’tunderstand why I cant just callit quits but I know she feels it too I know she does I just dunno how to…to…where to go!

[OtakuGirl]

Sounds like a tough situation. Keep in mind I'm basing my opinion on what I've read about her in this post only.

 

It sounds like she has some serious emotional issues, maybe even borderline personality disorder. That "I want you but I don't want you" vibe is a real red flag to me plus the content of her side of the conversation.

 

Sometimes people are friendzoned (which it sounds like you have been) because the other is not emotionally ready to properly commit to a relationship.

 

Do you want a relationship with someone who could tick both these boxes? They would be constantly seeing reassurance on the one hand, and sabotaging the relationship with the other (self destructive behaviours due to an unstable sense of self).

 

Good luck, sorry if this comes off as a judgemental comment!

[Philosoraptor]

She seems to know what she is, and even says it. She's in no way emotionally ready for any sort of long term commitment and is much more comfortable bouncing around as she has had no stability in her life. She needs to figure things out on her own and reach that maturity that will allow her to foster such a relationship.

[Shepp]

It sounds like she has some serious emotional issues, maybe even borderline personality disorder. That "I want you but I don't want you" vibe is a real red flag to me plus the content of her side of the conversation.

Yeah, I dunno much about all that kinda stuff, but I know she has her issues - she has kinda started counselling but shes very off and on with it.

 

Do you want a relationship with someone who could tick both these boxes? They would be constantly seeing reassurance on the one hand, and sabotaging the relationship with the other (self destructive behaviours due to an unstable sense of self).

On paper obviously that's not on my top 10 things to look for in a girl - but if you ask me do I want a relationship with Alex then, yeah! cause her good points outweigh her bad for me , shes not perfect but nor am I but I think we fit pretty darn well together - I can deal with the reassuring and self destructiveness, I have since I was 14, y'know? I don't stick my head in the sand I know what shes like but I'd choose the ups and downs with her over mediocre with the other girls anyday

 

Thanks,

Alfie

[Shepp]

She seems to know what she is, and even says it. She's in no way emotionally ready for any sort of long term commitment and is much more comfortable bouncing around as she has had no stability in her life. She needs to figure things out on her own and reach that maturity that will allow her to foster such a relationship.

Yeah I get that, I get that, im not trying to rush her into anything thou, im happy to take it steady, I can wait for her if were heading somewhere!

Thanks,

Alfie

[Steph-It-Up]

Hey Alfie (I assume),

 

I read this and then I read your other thread – I had to answer as I used to know a girl a bit like your friend back in high school, Broken home, lonely, hurting more than anyone knew. I guess It's like a protective shell, hurting others prevents fromgetting hurt. Sleeping with strangers was her kind of self-harm, just like somepeople cut themselves. Drink was another vice for her though, I don’t know wether or not that applys to your situation?

 

You love her. Even though you guys are miles away from meI can feel it. And she loves you back. But heres my take on it:

 

She’s torn – She says herself she feels broken and she appears to live her life looking forinstant pleasure because she can't understand the difference of that andhappiness - when things hurt, she acts impulsively in ways that make her feelbetter. I would put my money on the fact she never grieved properly for her mom(. you state her dads a waste of space mental health staff say that if we don'tgrieve properly it'll stay with us, and also if we don't have anyone to lean onwhile we grieve then our mind automatically tells us not to grieve because ourminds know we cannot grieve on our own because it can be a very waring processto go through - the start of your teen years are difficult without a traumaticevent like that)

 

On the other hand she has finally met her "knight in shining armour" a guy who loves her unconditionally, stands by her andtreats her with respect. However I think somewhere along the line this girl haslost her self esteem, she either thinks she doesn't deserve you or dosentunderstand why you lover her, but at the same time she knows she can't live without you – which would be scary for any girl.

 

You need to just keep making her feel safe, show her youthink she's that special, that she deserves to be loved, that you can take theworst she has to show, and that you'll keep on loving her. You know you can dothat. Tell her she shouldn't be afraid of good things, that yeah bad times cometo everyone, but you can overcome that. She shouldn't be afraid of being happyjust because she knows that might not last forever. She is very lucky to haveyou and it seems she knows this, which of course, will make her anxiety of losing you 1000000x bigger but sometimes we have to be a little bit vulnerable but wehave to do it for the right person. You are the right person and again I thinkshe knows that but can't quite believe it because she is not used to it.

[Shepp]

Hey Alfie (I assume),

I read this and then I read your other thread – I had to answer as I used to know a girl a bit like your friend back in high school, Broken home, lonely, hurting more than anyone knew. I guess It's like a protective shell, hurting others prevents fromgetting hurt. Sleeping with strangers was her kind of self-harm, just like somepeople cut themselves. Drink was another vice for her though, I don’t know wether or not that applys to your situation?

Err she likes a drink but only socially, she doesn't like drink alone.

 

You love her. Even though you guys are miles away from meI can feel it. And she loves you back.

 

She’s torn – She says herself she feels broken and she appears to live her life looking for instant pleasure because she can't understand the difference of that and happiness - when things hurt, she acts impulsively in ways that make her feel better.

Yeah that's bang on!!

I would put my money on the fact she never grieved properly for her mom(. you state her dads a waste of space mental health staff say that if we don'tgrieve properly it'll stay with us, and also if we don't have anyone to lean onwhile we grieve then our mind automatically tells us not to grieve because ourminds know we cannot grieve on our own because it can be a very waring processto go through - the start of your teen years are difficult without a traumatic event like that)

Her dad fell into depression after her mum died so it fell to Alex to just grit her teeth and get on with bringing herself up, buying food, cooking it the lot - that must of been tough, I doubt there was much time for grieving as you put it.

 

On the other hand she has finally met her "knight in shining armour" a guy who loves her unconditionally, stands by her andtreats her with respect. However I think somewhere along the line this girl haslost her self esteem, she either thinks she doesn't deserve you or dosentunderstand why you lover her, but at the same time she knows she can't live without you – which would be scary for any girl.

 

You need to just keep making her feel safe, show her you think she's that special, that she deserves to be loved, that you can take the worst she has to show, and that you'll keep on loving her. You know you can do that. Tell her she shouldn't be afraid of good things, that yeah bad times cometo everyone, but you can overcome that. She shouldn't be afraid of being happy just because she knows that might not last forever. She is very lucky to have you and it seems she knows this, which of course, will make her anxiety of losing you 1000000x bigger but sometimes we have to be a little bit vulnerable but we have to do it for the right person. You are the right person and again I thinkshe knows that but can't quite believe it because she is not used to it.

Yeah yeah I get that, like I've been there since I was 14 - like I don't see her through rose tinted glasses I know what shes like, the good and the bad, but im still standing by her and I will, always!

 

Thank you,

Alfie

[Ryan_Talon]

Do you actually love this girl or simply the idea of her, a girl that needs saving?

Your fireman I see - great job, hats off to you, - but if your a hero at work, do you genuinely love this girl or just want to be a hero at home tooSome guys like to be the knight in shining armour.

 

I don't mean to sound judgemental but just reading all that you say you love her, she says she doesn't know why and I kind of agree with her - you seem to put heron a pedestal as an angel with broken wings but inthnk the 'what is actually so great about her' is missing from your post?

[Shepp]

I don't mean to sound judgemental but just reading all that you say you love her, she says she doesn't know why and I kind of agree with her - you seem to put heron a pedestal as an angel with broken wings but inthnk the 'what is actually so great about her' is missing from your post?

 

woah no no no mate! I might only be young but I know what it is to love someone!!

There is so much I love about her!...

1. How she dosent correct my grammar even though I know it kills her

2. How bright green and sparkly her eyes are when shes excited

3. The way crunches her nose up when I tell her how beautiful she is.

4. Her laugh

5. Because of all of our inside jokes that you will never quite get.

6. How she texts me when shes at work

7. The way she understands I cant text her when im at work

8. The way she cheers me up when im stressed

9. How much she loves food

10. How she made us take a road trip miles away to one of the only Taco bells in the country when she found out that I’d never had a taco.

11. How she gives awesome massages

12. How she calls me out on my ****

13. The way we play hide and seek when shopping in Tesco

14. The way she gets embarrassed when I run around Tesco like an idiot

15. The way shes not embarrassed to sing in the car despite being incredibly tone deaf

16. Becauseim smiling right now just writing this.

17. Becauseshe stands in the rain at my football matches

18. The way she is totally undefeated at rock paper scissors

19. Shesone of the most honest people ive ever met

20. Because shes magnetic

21. Howim the only person who charges her phone cause she NEVER remembers

22. How she thinks im funny

23. Her accent

24. How can wear my hoodie and a pair of cheap sunglasses and still be the sexiest girl in the room

25. The way we can be in a roomful of people and have a complete conversation just by pulling faces

26. The way she bites her lip when she's nervous.

27. The fact the she told me 'Ronald's plays football like she imagines Legolas would'perfectly seriously.

28. The way she genuinely tries to take her interest when im running her through mytough managerial decisions on footballmanager13

29. How feisty she is when she's mad

30. She just stunning yet one of the least self absorbed about her looks girls I'veever met.

31. How when I don't know if I'm making the right decision I call her and ask her and she'll always be like 'your only calling me cause you know that's the wrongthing to do' - and she's right!

32. Her awesome impressionist skills

33. The way she pretends to be mad at me for putting empty boxes back in the cupboards or fridge!

34. How insulted she gets that Every time she picks her favourite person to win on areality tv show, they get kicked off the next week

35. How she loves camping

36. The way she makes up new words when she can't think of a good enough one

37. The way she always calls me a dork when im excited about something

38. The way that whenever I call her a closet nerd she doesn’t deny it

39. The way she always takes a bottle of water to bed, and then squirts me in the face with it at 2am cause she cant remember the name of the 7th dwarf and its bugging her

40. The fact that this list is so easy to write

 

Im not saying shes perfect I know shes not but I love her! And im not perfect, but she stands by me!

[WordvAction]

Jesus you've got perseverance; I usually say in situations like this it's best to move on, but ik that's not gonna happen. I think in her mind she has you exactly where she wants you. She doesn't need to commit to

You and she can get her emotional satisfaction from you while getting her physical self-harming satisfaction by sleeping with random guys. Hopefully one day, she finds confidence in herself instead of depending on you

[Ryan_Talon]

Im not saying shes perfect I know shes not but I love her! And im not perfect, but she stands by me!

 

Okay you love her, pretty unconditionally by the sound of it. To be honest I don't know if that makes you a hero or a fool, but its not my place to decide and god loves I trier I guess!

 

Id normally say if you want to be with her then its ultimatum time except I don't think you would walk away and I also think shes probably the kind of girl who'd back off at the speed of light at the sign of an ultimatum.

So I guess if you really want to be with the girl all you have to do is never leave.

I do kind of agree with steph-it-up, I do think she loves you, eventually she will come around. Just prop your feet up, arms behind your head and tell her your not going anywhere and when she is ready u will be there. It might take weeks, months...but she will eventually get the idea that she is what you want and will not take no for an answer.

[Shepp]

I did just realise that in my effort to make this as short as possible I completely cut out the bit about her being pregnant, so yeah, I spoke on here about that before but yeah.

 

Jesus you've got perseverance;

Mate determinations my best quality and stubbornness is my worst and the only real difference between them is perspective! I make no effort to deny that!

 

I usually say in situations like this it's best to move on, but ik that's not gonna happen. I think in her mind she has you exactly where she wants you. She doesn't need to commit to you and she can get her emotional satisfaction from you while getting her physical self-harming satisfaction by sleeping with random guys. Hopefully one day, she finds confidence in herself instead of depending on you

Yeah I get that I do, I guess I don't get why, y'know? Like she can sleep with me as much as she wants - i'll carry that burden I don't get why the random guys are important to her.

 

Okay you love her, pretty unconditionally by the sound of it. To be honest I don't know if that makes you a hero or a fool, but its not my place to decide and god loves I trier I guess!

haha id say that's pretty fair.

 

Id normally say if you want to be with her then its ultimatum time except I don't think you would walk away and I also think shes probably the kind of girl who'd back off at the speed of light at the sign of an ultimatum.

I agree.

 

So I guess if you really want to be with the girl all you have to do is never leave.

I do kind of agree with steph-it-up, I do think she loves you, eventually she will come around. Just prop your feet up, arms behind your head and tell her your not going anywhere and when she is ready u will be there. It might take weeks, months...but she will eventually get the idea that she is what you want and will not take no for an answer.

yeah...thanks mate!!

[Steph-It-Up]

Awwww that is so cute I fee like I'm going to cry!! Honestly just give her that list!!

 

13. The way we play hide and seek when shopping in Tesco

14. The way she gets embarrassed when I run around Tesco like an idiot

for real!?

 

39. The way she always takes a bottle of water to bed, and then squirts me in the face with it at 2am cause she cant remember the name of the 7th dwarf and its bugging her

Now if you still want the girl after that then that is love!!

[pteromom]

Hell, after reading your list, I think I am in love with her too.

 

 

I have no advice... but I hope she is able to see how much you love her and decide that she is worthy of real love.

[imtooconfused]

1. How she dosent correct my grammar even though I know it kills her

...

40. The fact that this list is so easy to write

 

Awwww that is so cute I fee like I'm going to cry!! Honestly just give her that list!!

 

To tell you the truth, I don't think this woman will ever see you as more than a friend. But if you have any chance at all, you have to give her this list. At this point, there is no harm that can come of it.

[Shepp]

Hell, after reading your list, I think I am in love with her too.

 

Hahah that made me laugh!

I could of gone on way longer but I didn't want to bore the LS community!

 

Awwww that is so cute I feel like I'm going to cry!! Honestly just give her that list!!

 

To tell you the truth, I don't think this woman will ever see you as more than a friend. But if you have any chance at all, you have to give her this list. At this point, there is no harm that can come of it.

 

Seriously? Give her the list??

I thought I were being a soppy P****

[pteromom]

Hahah that made me laugh!

I could of gone on way longer but I didn't want to bore the LS community!

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously? Give her the list??

I thought I were being a soppy P****

 

It can't hurt. You have to do SOMETHING differently. Make SOME kind of a bold move.

[Shepp]

It can't hurt. You have to do SOMETHING differently. Make SOME kind of a bold move.

 

Yeah I guess, like that'd be really out of character for me but I guess your right 'in character' isn't really working for me!! Maybe I should change tactics

 

I'll have to think on what to say thou "hey Al I wrote you a list" doesn't sound quite write

[imtooconfused]

I thought I were being a soppy P****

 

The fact that she only sees you only as a friend means it might already be too late to be thought of in that way. In order for her to see you differently you have to break out of the rut in which you currently find yourself. Do something different. Do something bold. Maybe it's not the list, but do something that she will notice.

[Shepp]

In order for her to see you differently you have to break out of the rut in which you currently find yourself. Do something different. Do something bold. Maybe it's not the list, but do something that she will notice.

 

Yeah okay, I think your right!! That's what i'll do!

Thanks mate!!

[Shepp]

Thanks guys! I gave her the list and it kinda worked so great advice! I owe you one!! :D

[Ajax]

I did just realise that in my effort to make this as short as possible I completely cut out the bit about her being pregnant, so yeah, I spoke on here about that before but yeah.

 

So in all the discussion about the viability of becoming more than friends with this women, nobody's addressed this since the OP slipped it in? Um... this is significant.

 

First, who's child is this? Clearly by it's omission from the rest of this thread it's not yours. So is the father still in the picture? Are you really willing to help raise another man's baby?

 

This women you're so in love with is in no way willing or able to give you what you want, but it seems she's keeping you in her back pocket for emotional (possibly someday financial?) support.

 

You are a doormat. You need to pull yourself together and see this situation for what it actually is, and then move on and find someone who actually wants to be with you.

[imtooconfused]

This women you're so in love with is in no way willing or able to give you what you want, but it seems she's keeping you in her back pocket for emotional (possibly someday financial?) support.

 

Not necessarily. This would be a logical extension of falling in love with a divorcee with children or single mom. She's just not yet an "official" mom. It all comes down to if she really feels mutual interest for the OP, and whether the other men in her life are really gone. I am still pessimistic, but the OP says that his list may have changed the dynamic.

[Shepp]

First, who's child is this? Clearly by it's omission from the rest of this thread it's not yours. So is the father still in the picture? Are you really willing to help raise another man's baby?

Hey mate, well the short answer is she doesn't know, I think she has an idea but it was just a guy she met at a bar, doesn't know him, doesn't remember his name so no he's not in the picture.

Am I willing to raise another mans kid - yeah, I've always wanted to be a dad - I mean for me like any bloke can get a girl pregnant but being a dads more than that - its coaching the footie team, swim meets, its sticking around. I really think id be a good dad, I mean obviously im not an idiot, I want my own kids but this kid is hers so of course id love it.

 

This women you're so in love with is in no way willing or able to give you what you want, but it seems she's keeping you in her back pocket for emotional (possibly someday financial?) support.

 

You are a doormat. You need to pull yourself together and see this situation for what it actually is, and then move on and find someone who actually wants to be with you.

Okay, like I don't see myself as a doormat - obviously im writing this thread from my point of view but she does a lot for me too - she does have her issues no skating around that but shes a good person and we're deffo on a two way street y'know give and take!

[Shepp]

Not necessarily. This would be a logical extension of falling in love with a divorcee with children or single mom. She's just not yet an "official" mom. .

Well yeah, I wouldn't be like no to dating single mum if I liked her so the only real difference is i'll be there from the start.

 

It all comes down to if she really feels mutual interest for the OP, and whether the other men in her life are really gone. .

Yeah that's totally it, i'm confident that she feels it too but I also know that shes scared, and I guess I can understand that, and if she cant take the risk, she cant take it but I want to do everything I can to convince her im worth it.

 

I am still pessimistic, but the OP says that his list may have changed the dynamic.

Yeah kinda, she was chuffed and I asked her to kinda just give it a try, to try dating for like 2 weeks and if at the end of that she still feels like, I dunno like she cant do it for whatever reason then then I'll drop it and i'll just be her friend but if she decides im worth it and holding down a relationships worth it then awesome and we'll just keep going - all of which she really liked so that's what we're doing

 

...I've got two weeks to sell myself as boyfriend material