70% of the Women go for 15% of the Men?

[Pompeii]

I'm risking coming off as sexist here, but I think some women (not all!) aren't entirely honest in discussions such as this. They give the answers they think we want to hear and not necessarily what they actually feel. What women think they should want and what actually gets them going aren't always the same thing. For some women, they're never the same thing, at least when they are younger.

 

Of course they're not going to answer this straightforwardly. When women get older they make it seem like they have always been attracted to the type that are "beta males" when in actuality they haven't. If you're a guy and you're below 30, you better have some degree of status in your social circle, be aesthetic, or have some good money coming in. If you have none of those, girls will not throw you a bone whatsoever.

 

For example, women say they don't like or care if a guy has muscles. Yet on the weekend, who will they sleep with? Mr. Manhandler with 200 lb body weight and 8% body fat. Of course women like muscular guys. I guess they feel if someone is ripped, they are naturally like that. Hah, no, we go to the gym and do muscle-destroying workouts and eat like we're burning coal in a furnace.

 

I've seen so much bull**** in the past 2 years since I have been aware of things that I'm just tired of hearing that women don't care if you don't have these things. Of course they do. People (especially guys) need to stop acting so stupid and take things at face value. I'd rather pay attention to what women do rather than what they say. That's the main reason why guys who have all of these traits monopolize a lion's share of the female attention. If you are 6'2, 210 lbs, shredded, have money, and are respected in your social circle, you WILL get female attention and you WILL get a lot of girls if you so choose. Most men are pretty much invisible as far as attraction goes to women. Most men are seen as either creeps, asexual, or not even men.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Pompeii

[Pompeii]

I've seen it happen in reverse - the guys very often go for the snooty, mean, b!tch who treats them like a servant, but she's hot so she gets away with it. It happened in my last relationship, except his ex wasn't that hot.... yet, he will always be obsessed with her because she treated him like dirt.

 

I never understand why women bring this up because most men aren't attracted to those types of women like most females are attracted to the opposite type of men. In other words, more women go for *******s than men go for "bitches".

[Revolver]

As for Barrack, I don't know if he is "alpha" or not but I do know dude is a fraud.

 

This guy is a closet center right republican who runs on progressive liberal values during election time.

[pcplod]

and there’s nothing worse than a dead alpha.

 

Oh, I don't know. May I bid you up "a live alpha"?

 

Dead alpha's are quite the curiosity, like woolly mammoths and dodos. Live alphas have a propensity to create wide-spread havoc at an unacceptable cost, to the sane, grounded others left. How they get away with the $h1t they do, again and again, is what really dumbfounds me. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that we are all complicit in their shenanigans. That doesn't make the rest of us betas or whatever, just stupid and masochistic.

[MrTurk]

Thank you for telling me how I really feel. What would we all do without you?

 

 

Not being rude here....but believe it or not....you really dont know how you feel most of the time. You dont know what you want, why you want it, or when the thought about wanting it come in to your mind.

 

We as humans like to think we are in total control at all times. It makes us feel smart, witty, and gives us an illusion of knowledge.

 

Check out the video below.....

 

 

If you dont like to click links...Google..*Dan Ariely Are we in control of our decisions*

 

"Behavioral economist Dan Ariely, the author of Predictably Irrational, uses classic visual illusions and his own counterintuitive (and sometimes shocking) research findings to show how we're not as rational as we think when we make decisions.

It's become increasingly obvious that the dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely tells us why."

 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 16, 2013 by MrTurk

[ltjg45]

I never understand why women bring this up because most men aren't attracted to those types of women like most females are attracted to the opposite type of men. In other words, more women go for *******s than men go for "bitches".

 

I beg to differ.

 

I seen that happen myself. Maybe not as often as women chasing the male jerks but it was definitely there esp. if he was getting laid with her.

 

My 22 year old brother is one of them, messing with a woman who is 47-48 and has 9 kids.

 

His girlfriend is older than my mother, for crying out loud.

[Mrlonelyone]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Obama has shown himself to be a VERY passive President, but definitely more active than Bush. I hate the terms "alpha" and "beta" because I don't believe that they exist. But if we are to use these terms, Obama is nothing but a "beta" in an "alpha" position. Again, so was Jimmy Carter.

 

I also disagree that "aesthetics" and status do not matter. Of course they do. They can easily tip the tide for any guy. They aren't the only thing but they can easily shift the balance. An aesthetic guy can easily get a short term fling but if he has a weak personality, the girl will leave. I've seen it many times. For many guys, that's all they need. Something short term.

 

 

The very fact you say that, and yoyo mentions of petty social circles "on campus", shows an immature perception of worldly status. Let me tell you what status on campus, among college age people, is worth, jack and $h1t, and Jack just left town.

 

 

Politicians, in particular, and community leaders and authority figures in general, are alpha. To the extent that alpha and beta apply to complex human groups. Being a leader of any kind is what being alpha means.

 

 

Power and strength (Political, financial, military, intellectual/inventive/creative, etc) make men alpha and make women horny.

[KungFuJoe]

Basically, what it comes down to is that some people are just born better suited at attracting the opposite sex than others. Just like some are born to play pro ball, and others can't even get in the game.

 

But, with practice, ANYONE can be "good". You might never be great and it might never come as easy as someone who is 6'7" and can jump out of the gym, but does that mean you toss your sneakers in the trash?

[charlietheginger]

Doctors and lawyers aren't "alphas". A lot of doctors are "betas" as far as personality goes. You don't have to be an "alpha" to have money, people like Bill Gates and his Silicon Valley buddies showed and continue to show us that. Also, I wouldn't care to date those women, they'd only suck my mo...ney and be gone in a second if my company went under.

 

Alpha isnt all personality.

Alpha is about power and control with those things

Women come with eaze.

 

Bill gates could place a ad online and get responses

From thousands of women. The fact is he gets to

Choose the ones he wants makes him alpha

Examples are hugh hefner and ugly politicians

With as many women as they can handle why?

Power and money

Edited July 17, 2013 by charlietheginger

[Pompeii]

The very fact you say that, and yoyo mentions of petty social circles "on campus", shows an immature perception of worldly status. Let me tell you what status on campus, among college age people, is worth, jack and $h1t, and Jack just left town.

 

 

Politicians, in particular, and community leaders and authority figures in general, are alpha. To the extent that alpha and beta apply to complex human groups. Being a leader of any kind is what being alpha means.

 

 

Power and strength (Political, financial, military, intellectual/inventive/creative, etc) make men alpha and make women horny.

 

 

Generally, the people who are accepted on college campuses tend to be accepted out of them. It should be no surprise that the guy who had a huge social circle and was smack dab in the center of it will use the same charm, wit, and tactics to assimilate himself even better in the "real world". Clinton was a popular guy at Yale. Is it any surprise he is where he is today? Granted, not everyone who is popular or desired in college will be able to translate that to the real world. But in college, seeds start being planted, behaviors and habits are reinforced, and you start to get a glimpse of who people will be in the future, especially in the latter two years.

 

I'll say it again, Obama is a "beta" in an "alpha" position. Same with Bush, same with Nixon, same with Carter, same with many other Presidents. Those people would never be able to match the tenacity, charisma, and razor-sharp intellect of both Roosevelts, Lincoln, Eisenhower, Kennedy, etc. Obama is smart and knowledgable and knows how to work a room, but that's about all he has going for him. He has no lasting charisma.

 

So by this logic, you are telling me George W. was an "alpha"? Get real, man. That's laughable. He was nothing but a bumbling, incompetent idiot. He wasn't even the one running the show, Cheney was using him as a marionette. Same with Obama, he's not running the show either. His adviser is. Easily one of the worst Presidents the US has ever seen and you call him an "alpha". If you say something similar to the professors in the History department of my university, they'd laugh you right out of Cambridge.

 

I know a lot of "beta" community leaders and "figureheads" who put on a stupid "alpha" act in front of everybody but when it comes to their wives, they get told to "sit" and "heel". Very "beta" if you ask me.

[KungFuJoe]

Do you know how beta it is to have ACTUAL discussions about being alpha?

 

I mean, it doesn't get anymore beta than that.

[charlietheginger]

Doctors and lawyers aren't "alphas". A lot of doctors are "betas" as far as personality goes. You don't have to be an "alpha" to have money, people like Bill Gates and his Silicon Valley buddies showed and continue to show us that. Also, I wouldn't care to date those women, they'd only suck my money and be gone in a second if my company went under.

 

Its also about status .... The nice beta personality doctor

Has status nice car house security...

 

Now the beta doctor has options

He can use his status and money

Select or turn away the women he chooses

[Pompeii]

As for Barrack, I don't know if he is "alpha" or not but I do know dude is a fraud.

 

This guy is a closet center right republican who runs on progressive liberal values during election time.

 

I don't know why people consider Obama liberal. He's pretty moderate-right if you ask me. People say he's the most liberal President we've ever had but that is certainly not true. It's so funny how easy it is to take advantage of an uneducated populace.

[Pompeii]

Do you know how beta it is to have ACTUAL discussions about being alpha?

 

I mean, it doesn't get anymore beta than that.

 

So you effectively called EVERYONE in this thread a "beta". Congratulations, smart guy.

 

Its also about status .... The nice beta personality doctor

Has status nice car house security...

 

Now the beta doctor has options

He can use his status and money

Select or turn away the women he chooses

 

The "beta" guy has options but his women will always be ****ing someone else behind his back because he doesn't have the cajones to back it up. Guys like this are usually used to buy the woman things, not to fulfill her sexual needs.

[veggirl]

Oh yeah? I'm pretty sure most women would want a guy like Ryan Gosling or Robert Pattisson. I'm also sure a lot of women want the most desirable guy on campus. The guy who has the total package - aesthetics, intelligence, status, and seemingly treats women well. I see girls for these types of guys all. the. time. but they can't have him, so they go for his friend who is "good enough". If a woman isn't really attracted to a man, she'll never respect him.

 

Yes doofus, most women may WANT a Ryan Gosling, just like most men may WANT an Adriana Lima.

 

so is every guy who dates a regular girl "settling" or is just girls dating regular guys who are settling?

[charlietheginger]

So you effectively called EVERYONE in this thread a "beta". Congratulations, smart guy.

 

 

 

The "beta" guy has options but his women will always be ****ing someone else behind his back because he doesn't have the cajones to back it up. Guys like this are usually used to buy the woman things, not to fulfill her sexual needs.

 

The doctor even if skinny and ugly is alpha...

 

He stuck out 10yrs made it through med school

He fluants a rolex watch

drives the newest luxury cars

Makes money in the 5% bracket

Nice house

 

This doctor dose not have to chase women. He simply

Attends events ,dinners,parties

Hands out his business card to women he chooses to.

Then he awaits a call. If he decides she is dating material

He can date if not oh well next please....

 

Believe me.those.nerdy doctors dont have to

Satisfy the women they have endless women

Bending over to satisfy them sexually

Alpha in todays society is not about how many drunk

Chicks you can bang from bars this is not caveman

Days. This is 2013 you can a stud beefcake with a adonis

Body but if you cant pay the bills you are not gonna

Get a keep a 9 10 women around long

Edited July 17, 2013 by charlietheginger

[MrTurk]

just like most men may WANT an Adriana Lima

 

Who in the hell is Adriana Lima???

 

I'm a Parker Posey type of guy myself

[Pompeii]

Yes doofus, most women may WANT a Ryan Gosling, just like most men may WANT an Adriana Lima.

 

so is every guy who dates a regular girl "settling" or is just girls dating regular guys who are settling?

 

Call me a doofus, doesn't make you in the right. Notice I said guys LIKE them. I didn't say them. It has already been stated before that men in general have a much, much, much wider net of attraction than women do or ever will. The types of men aforementioned are usually the only types of guys that fall in that net for women. Anything outside of that net is usually considered settling. For men, they would certainly be happy with an Adriana Lima or a woman like her but since the net is so wide, they would also be very happy with a woman who does not look like her.

 

Want proof that this net exists? Women initiate divorce in 75% of cases. Why isn't it that the man initiates divorce if he's "settling"? A lot of women settle and marry men that don't light their fire. They settle for men who have a greater ability to provide. The men who are sexually attractive to women and have a great ability to provide are usually snatched up by very, very, desirable women quite early. A large majority of men DON'T or never will light a woman's fire, whether it be through their personality traits or physical traits. Even evolution supports this. Most of our ancestors are women for goodness sakes. That means a small(er) amount of men had sex with a greater number of females. This continues on today.

 

 

So just give it up and face it: women have less things that turn them on sexually than men do. Many women simply see most men as asexual friends, associates, coworkers, etc.

[ThaWholigan]

Call me a doofus, doesn't make you in the right. Notice I said guys LIKE them. I didn't say them. It has already been stated before that men in general have a much, much, much wider net of attraction than women do or ever will. The types of men aforementioned are usually the only types of guys that fall in that net for women. Anything outside of that net is usually considered settling. For men, they would certainly be happy with an Adriana Lima or a woman like her but since the net is so wide, they would also be very happy with a woman who does not look like her.

 

Want proof that this net exists? Women initiate divorce in 75% of cases. Why isn't it that the man initiates divorce if he's "settling"? A lot of women settle and marry men that don't light their fire. They settle for men who have a greater ability to provide. The men who are sexually attractive to women and have a great ability to provide are usually snatched up by very, very, desirable women quite early. A large majority of men DON'T or never will light a woman's fire, whether it be through their personality traits or physical traits. Even evolution supports this. Most of our ancestors are women for goodness sakes. That means a small(er) amount of men had sex with a greater number of females. This continues on today.

 

 

So just give it up and face it: women have less things that turn them on sexually than men do. Many women simply see most men as asexual friends, associates, coworkers, etc.

All I can say is, I don't believe it's entirely evolutions fault....

[veggirl]

Call me a doofus, doesn't make you in the right. Notice I said guys LIKE them. I didn't say them. It has already been stated before that men in general have a much, much, much wider net of attraction than women do or ever will. The types of men aforementioned are usually the only types of guys that fall in that net for women. Anything outside of that net is usually considered settling. For men, they would certainly be happy with an Adriana Lima or a woman like her but since the net is so wide, they would also be very happy with a woman who does not look like her.

 

Want proof that this net exists? Women initiate divorce in 75% of cases. Why isn't it that the man initiates divorce if he's "settling"? A lot of women settle and marry men that don't light their fire. They settle for men who have a greater ability to provide. The men who are sexually attractive to women and have a great ability to provide are usually snatched up by very, very, desirable women quite early. A large majority of men DON'T or never will light a woman's fire, whether it be through their personality traits or physical traits. Even evolution supports this. Most of our ancestors are women for goodness sakes. That means a small(er) amount of men had sex with a greater number of females. This continues on today.

 

 

So just give it up and face it: women have less things that turn them on sexually than men do. Many women simply see most men as asexual friends, associates, coworkers, etc.

 

so I guess the moral is damn how desperate and pathetic are these "betas" who accept women who "settle" for them!

 

Where did you read that women initiate divorce because their guy isn't "lighting their fire" ?

could it be because their guy is abusive or has cheated? or no it's the chicks fault duh!

 

sorry that we aren't as horny as you guys or something? sorry we aren't turned on by just any dick? can we help it or perhaps that is your precious evolution as well?

Edited July 17, 2013 by veggirl

[Revolver]

I don't know why people consider Obama liberal. He's pretty moderate-right if you ask me. People say he's the most liberal President we've ever had but that is certainly not true. It's so funny how easy it is to take advantage of an uneducated populace.

 

Because he plays a liberal on TV. I look at alot of conservative criticism of him and think "um... You do know he agrees with you 80% of the time right?"

[Simon Phoenix]

As far as the Adriana Lima/Ryan Gosling thing, guys want to have a girl like Adriana Lima (if she's in his top tier). Women want to have Ryan Gosling. Not a guy like him, but him specifically. Men generally consider a larger sample of the opposite sex than women do. Of course there are exceptions, but in general that's how the majority rolls. One of the exceptions was my male roommate in college, who was so picky (along with not having much game) that he remained a virgin in every way possible until he was 24.

[dasein]

I'd say that 95-99 percent of men go after the top 15 percent of women. But most fail miserably. It's not just the pursuit that is being discussed, it's the successful capture, for lack of a better term.

 

Men generally go for all women above a certain baseline of attractiveness established by their past success, for average men this generally equates to "not fat." Women are far, far different. Make no mistake, we very much live in a world where average women and above, not men, average or otherwise, choose their mates. Only the top top men have the same sexual opportunities and choices the average woman has. This is not something to make a big deal of, just accept it and move past.

 

OP is correct but it's more like most women chase after 5% of the men despite their not falling anywhere near the 5% themselves. This delusion is fueled by women's general gullible nature, cultural pedestaling of women and their desires, and the generally hypergamous nature of women. They get the idea that they can land the top 5%er merely because he will agree to have sex with them one night a week, even if she has a pretty good idea the rest of the week is filled up with other women. Most groupies are women, whether the target is the the superstar, the local band or rich guy, or even the hipster drug dealer which also evidences this phenomenon.

 

Trying to always equate the sexes in terms of behavior is tired feminist rhetoric and just flat wrong. That women are this way is just a given reality men must accept and move past for dating success. The "wildcards" are 1. that social value or perceived social value is not an immutable characteristic like looks or height, and can be manipulated to the smart man's advantage, and 2. female preference varies based on available pool. It's easier to get into that magic 5% in some pools than others.

[Mrlonelyone]

Generally, the people who are accepted on college campuses tend to be accepted out of them. It should be no surprise that the guy who had a huge social circle and was smack dab in the center of it will use the same charm, wit, and tactics to assimilate himself even better in the "real world". Clinton was a popular guy at Yale. Is it any surprise he is where he is today? Granted, not everyone who is popular or desired in college will be able to translate that to the real world. But in college, seeds start being planted, behaviors and habits are reinforced, and you start to get a glimpse of who people will be in the future, especially in the latter two years.

 

I'll say it again, Obama is a "beta" in an "alpha" position. Same with Bush, same with Nixon, same with Carter, same with many other Presidents. Those people would never be able to match the tenacity, charisma, and razor-sharp intellect of both Roosevelts, Lincoln, Eisenhower, Kennedy, etc. Obama is smart and knowledgable and knows how to work a room, but that's about all he has going for him. He has no lasting charisma.

 

So by this logic, you are telling me George W. was an "alpha"? Get real, man. That's laughable. He was nothing but a bumbling, incompetent idiot. He wasn't even the one running the show, Cheney was using him as a marionette. Same with Obama, he's not running the show either. His adviser is. Easily one of the worst Presidents the US has ever seen and you call him an "alpha". If you say something similar to the professors in the History department of my university, they'd laugh you right out of Cambridge.

 

I know a lot of "beta" community leaders and "figureheads" who put on a stupid "alpha" act in front of everybody but when it comes to their wives, they get told to "sit" and "heel". Very "beta" if you ask me.

 

 

Yes being president of the United States of America (Or Prime miniters of Great Britain, or Paramount leader of the PRC etc) makes one an Alpha Male by default. A weak willed, submissive, person more apt to be lead than to lead, a beta, would never even want the job.

 

On a smaller scale local Alpha males are leaders.

You mention guys who are BMOC's (Big men on Campus). Locally, and in the context of campus, they are alpha because they are leaders among students. These terms are relative and depend on context. College campuses are the least relevant of those context.*

 

However they aren't alpha compared to say.... the average professor with all the real worldly power they have.

They aren't alpha compared to, that cop who takes their beer, and tasers them if they resist.

They aren't alpha compared to, the judge who sentences them for being drunken disorderly.

They are then in jail an aren't alpha compared to, their cell mate Billy Bubba Butt 4_ck.

 

Do you get me?

 

We can't have a meaningful discussion of alpha VS beta males if we ignore the reality that much of the difference between the two is about status, and it depends on the circumstances.

 

i.e. An alpha male on campus may want to score a 34 year old in shape cougar.

 

That 34 year old Cougar is going to be looking at the 28 year old with a degree and a real job and some real maturity who's up an comming at his lawfirm before looking at a frat boy. Get real.

 

 

As for A Lima and Ryan Gosling.

 

As an out bisexual they are both yummy. I don't think everyone wants them though. Not everyone is attracted to the same things beyond a certain sense of symmetry and proportion. Within those universal proportions (the golden ratio of 1/1.618 in certain places, waist /hip ~ 0.7 etc) there is a great variation.

 

As someone who in high school had the hot female teacher(s) and the hot tri-varsity athelete(s), at different times. I must be alpha. I can sexually attract and satisfy anyone. The real trick is getting them to stay and build a relationship, that goes for the men and the women alike. If one is too hot, they can't be handled.

 

 

*I realize you may be in college or have just left college. I am a graduate student who has been in life on and off campus. Trust me, campus life is not like the real world at all. The people with the skills to flourish in the real world don't always do well on campus. They are too busy studying to ever look up and party. Not me, I partied too much, thats why I wasn't a PhD by 5 years ago. lol

[Pompeii]

Yes being president of the United States of America (Or Prime miniters of Great Britain, or Paramount leader of the PRC etc) makes one an Alpha Male by default. A weak willed, submissive, person more apt to be lead than to lead, a beta, would never even want the job.

 

On a smaller scale local Alpha males are leaders.

You mention guys who are BMOC's (Big men on Campus). Locally, and in the context of campus, they are alpha because they are leaders among students. These terms are relative and depend on context. College campuses are the least relevant of those context.*

 

However they aren't alpha compared to say.... the average professor with all the real worldly power they have.

They aren't alpha compared to, that cop who takes their beer, and tasers them if they resist.

They aren't alpha compared to, the judge who sentences them for being drunken disorderly.

They are then in jail an aren't alpha compared to, their cell mate Billy Bubba Butt 4_ck.

 

Do you get me?

 

We can't have a meaningful discussion of alpha VS beta males if we ignore the reality that much of the difference between the two is about status, and it depends on the circumstances.

 

i.e. An alpha male on campus may want to score a 34 year old in shape cougar.

 

That 34 year old Cougar is going to be looking at the 28 year old with a degree and a real job and some real maturity who's up an comming at his lawfirm before looking at a frat boy. Get real.

 

 

As for A Lima and Ryan Gosling.

 

As an out bisexual they are both yummy. I don't think everyone wants them though. Not everyone is attracted to the same things beyond a certain sense of symmetry and proportion. Within those universal proportions (the golden ratio of 1/1.618 in certain places, waist /hip ~ 0.7 etc) there is a great variation.

 

As someone who in high school had the hot female teacher(s) and the hot tri-varsity athelete(s), at different times. I must be alpha. I can sexually attract and satisfy anyone. The real trick is getting them to stay and build a relationship, that goes for the men and the women alike. If one is too hot, they can't be handled.

 

 

*I realize you may be in college or have just left college. I am a graduate student who has been in life on and off campus. Trust me, campus life is not like the real world at all. The people with the skills to flourish in the real world don't always do well on campus. They are too busy studying to ever look up and party. Not me, I partied too much, thats why I wasn't a PhD by 5 years ago. lol

 

This is ****ing stupid. Its quite clear we can go back and forth on this until the last Indian crosses the Trail of Tears. To be honest, I don't even use or care about the words "alpha" or "beta" because I know that they are inadequate. I just am using them for the sake of this discussion. You'll never catch me in real life calling someone "alpha" or "beta". This is also quite an irrelevant discussion because you're obviously not getting the point of my post about Obama or other Presidents I mentioned.

 

I also know how the real world operates thank you very much, so don't act like I'm some little kid who plays with Legos all day..