My take on infidelity and leaving wife for OW.

[HopingAgain]

So you ARE quite proud of that. I thought so. Congrats ladies You won. What a mighty good man you've found. Good luck. I really mean that.

 

 

 

if he was already separated (living apart) from his wife when he met you...why do you consider yourself an OW?

 

 

 

 

 

Really so he wasn't married to someone else when he started "dating" you? He was living alone and single? Then why do you consider yourself an OW?

 

 

These types of post do read like a competition, doesn't it? So if the few OW who "won" should be so proud, than what about the thousands or millions more of Betrayed Wives whose husbands choose to stay with them over OW?

 

Point being...gloating is never taken well, especially when the shoe is on the other foot!

[HopingAgain]

Usually the mistress pales in comparison to the wife, although she may be younger and have that edge. In general, the women who are more attractive overall don't have to resort to being mistresses.

 

This is probably an unpopular reality, but reality nonetheless. Very attractive women who also have brains are the cream of the crop when it comes time for a man to marry. MOST (not all for the people who love to pick apart generalizations) mistresses are either not as attractive as the wives and/or they are suffering from some low self esteem or confidence issues.

Edited July 30, 2013 by HopingAgain

[krazikat]

This is probably an unpopular reality, but reality nonetheless. Very attractive women who also have brains are the cream of the crop when it comes time for a man to marry. MOST (not all for the people who love to pick apart generalizations) mistresses are either not as attractive as the wives and/or they are suffering from some low self esteem or confidence issues.

 

Agreed. And sure, not all of them, but I do know in my sitch this is true. And I find it sad. I do somehow still feel sorry for my h fOW...she was a broken person. Even seeing their messages to each other, he bulldogged her, she lapped it up. She is a pretty girl, single mom, creative. But she is also a stripper, does drugs, brazenly told me she drinks and drives (ugh wtf) but still, despite all the horrible things she said to me and all the crazy lies she told, I still feel for her, and a part of me is mad at my h for treating this weak woman that way.

 

It was a lta, but come dday, she was dropped, over with, outa there. So he was willing to risk our m over someone he could drop so easily...but he was broken, too. He also drank, did drugs, drove after drinking...things I stay away from and/or have/would never do. So within his brokeness, he found another broken person to do those things with, since I was the nag having none of it.

 

So he chose to stop drinking, stop drugs, stop bad associations and keep me, his family, his health. Ok, I am rambling...but basically yep, what you said.

[jlola]

I find it naive to compare a years long relationship to a a new one..affair or not. Emotionally I get it..we all are in love and think our relationship will last and be more special than whomever our partner was with before...so emotionally yea. But logically, if my boyfriend was with his last woman 8 years and she lived with him and I've been with him 8 months long distance, some factors can't be compared.

 

If the MM had been married say 15 years and he wasn't unhappy or didn't start cheating until year 12....how can you compare your months long affair or even say 3 year affair, long distance relationship to the over a decade live-in situation. You don't know what the future holds for you, just like MM and BS didn't either. Logically, most times in the months long or 3 year stages of a marriage the couple was happy, cheating nowhere on the horizon too. With time though and life's curve balls is when things began to unfold or better yet, unravel. It's like OW sometimes don't see this, and just assume how things are now, it will forever be this way and act like in the marriage it was NEVER good and from day one it was bad so it won't happen to them since it is so good in the present. For some, yea okay maybe some person chose to marry some horrible person from day one...many others were in love, liked their spouse, married them and felt the same way you feel in your affair....and then time/stress/bad coping skills/falling out of love happened.

 

So frankly, until your relationship goes through some of the same things, like living together in the open for years, or reaches up to or exceeds the time of the marriage...there is still time for you to suffer the same fate.

 

Now, I'm not saying that they are the same relationship so will go through the same fate. I'm just saying, with a cheater or conflict avoidant person etc...you cannot really be so smug in less than a year that all will be well...when you simply haven't had enough time accumulated for things to go bad...so of course in your months or few years it is easy for it to seem lovely, but it may say nothing of how it evolves as the years and shiny newness wears off when you aren't the doting long distance lover but live in gf with her children and all that entails and the twists and turns life can and does hand people. The months or years of an affair, especially a long distance one, cannot be compared reasonably to yeaars or decades of marriage or an open cohabiting relationship...two different playing fields.

 

!700 miles away, long distance relationship <cannot be compared> by any means. I agree with you. the success is after many years of "real life". Not Skype,not text,not phone, but everyday interaction of living together. We tend to idealize the relationships till we LIVe with that person for a good amount of time and see how he interacts with kids,people,how he handles situations etc.

 

Throwing children that are not his into the mix will also have a great effect on the relationship.

Edited July 31, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Clarity

[HopingAgain]

Agreed. And sure, not all of them, but I do know in my sitch this is true. And I find it sad. I do somehow still feel sorry for my h fOW...she was a broken person. Even seeing their messages to each other, he bulldogged her, she lapped it up. She is a pretty girl, single mom, creative. But she is also a stripper, does drugs, brazenly told me she drinks and drives (ugh wtf) but still, despite all the horrible things she said to me and all the crazy lies she told, I still feel for her, and a part of me is mad at my h for treating this weak woman that way.

 

It was a lta, but come dday, she was dropped, over with, outa there. So he was willing to risk our m over someone he could drop so easily...but he was broken, too. He also drank, did drugs, drove after drinking...things I stay away from and/or have/would never do. So within his brokeness, he found another broken person to do those things with, since I was the nag having none of it.

 

So he chose to stop drinking, stop drugs, stop bad associations and keep me, his family, his health. Ok, I am rambling...but basically yep, what you said.

 

Yes, and usually its someone who is o.k. with just being given bits and pieces of time and not being a priority in their love interests lives...just whatever leftover scraps of time away from the MPs normal lives will do. That is one reason why I could not ever be satisfied with being a mistress, when I was in my early 20's, young and naive, I made that mistake for about 6 weeks after coming out of a bad relationship...but I tired of it quickly once I realized that I was on HIS terms and HIS schedule. I have no idea why in the world a woman would sign up for that if she knows she deserves more.

[So happy together]

This is probably an unpopular reality, but reality nonetheless. Very attractive women who also have brains are the cream of the crop when it comes time for a man to marry. MOST (not all for the people who love to pick apart generalizations) mistresses are either not as attractive as the wives and/or they are suffering from some low self esteem or confidence issues.

 

I'm sure that is what people would like to believe. I'm not unattractive. I have a brain. I run a successful business. And I don't have low self esteem or low confidence. I guess every BS who stays with someone who cheated must have these attributes because they will stay with someone who cheated on them.

[So happy together]

Hmmmm.....lets see, years invested in my marriage, husband truly sorry for who he was at the time, lots of hard work on his part to make things right...how does that equate to low self esteem...

 

 

And if you honestly believe your MM is not sleeping with his wife, you can add delusional to your list of attributes...he will say and do what you want to keep you around and you do the same...that's how affairs work...marriage on the other hand is not so easy...when the rubber hits the road, it takes hardwork and honestly to rebuild.,,most affairs are in maintenance mode, saying and doing what needs to be said to get that next piece on the side, they lack honesty by their very nature.

 

Stronger, you know I wasn't talking about you. I wasn't even being general... I was being sarcastic about how stupid this remark was.

[jlola]

Hmmmm.....lets see, years invested in my marriage, husband truly sorry for who he was at the time, lots of hard work on his part to make things right...how does that equate to low self esteem...

 

 

And if you honestly believe your MM is not sleeping with his wife, you can add delusional to your list of attributes...he will say and do what you want to keep you around and you do the same...that's how affairs work...marriage on the other hand is not so easy...when the rubber hits the road, it takes hardwork and honestly to rebuild.,,most affairs are in maintenance mode, saying and doing what needs to be said to get that next piece on the side, they lack honesty by their very nature.

 

The 1700 miles apart is what is the red flag. he can tell you whatever he wants to tell you. You can never prove it's the truth. When you are not there to see something with your on eyes, you can only take someone's word for it. If he has an agenda, he can be very convincing.

[janedoe67]

I think the problem comes when outliers (i.e. OW who really DO have it all together) assume they are the generalization.

 

And I have to wonder how many outliers there really are....and how many desperately need to believe they are outliers.

[So happy together]

The 1700 miles apart is what is the red flag. he can tell you whatever he wants to tell you. You can never prove it's the truth. When you are not there to see something with your on eyes, you can only take someone's word for it. If he has an agenda, he can be very convincing.

 

Whatever you have to tell yourself. I know better. Have a good day.

[So happy together]

Have a good day.

 

You too- enjoy skype-

 

Oh sweetheart... he'll be here in a week, but until then, I will most assuredly enjoy skype, phone calls, texting, and any other means of communication we can find. Because we actually like one another.

 

I always have to laugh at these sorts of posts because it just sounds like jealousy. We are SO HAPPY TOGETHER.

[So happy together]

You know, speaking of the Skype comment... I have to wonder how military wives would feel if you told them that... or anyone in a LD relationship, really. Told them that their relationship wasn't 'real'. Crazy to think how you would be received.

[Turtles]

The 1700 miles apart is what is the red flag. he can tell you whatever he wants to tell you. You can never prove it's the truth. When you are not there to see something with your on eyes, you can only take someone's word for it. If he has an agenda, he can be very convincing.

 

I'm sorry but what kind of love is it where you need irrefutable proof that the other's words are the truth? I don't dispute the rest of your logic but this part is in my opinion flawed because you are going to necessarily have to put some trust in a loving relationship.

[HopingAgain]

I'm sure that is what people would like to believe. I'm not unattractive. I have a brain. I run a successful business. And I don't have low self esteem or low confidence. I guess every BS who stays with someone who cheated must have these attributes because they will stay with someone who cheated on them.

 

Let's not kid ourselves. There are wives, and then there are mistresses. Whether you want to believe it or not it IS a hierarchy in the minds of men and society albeit a sexist one. That is why so many mistresses long to be the wifeand NOT the mistress.

[jlola]

I'm sorry but what kind of love is it where you need irrefutable proof that the other's words are the truth? I don't dispute the rest of your logic but this part is in my opinion flawed because you are going to necessarily have to put some trust in a loving relationship.

 

 

Love and romance are a funny thing. In fact only in love and romance will someone give blind trust because we tend to want to believe what the ones we love tell us. I am not being a pessimist. Just saying a person who lives far away can tell you anything and you cannot prove fact.

 

Isn't there an indie movie now turning into a reality television show which shows how many of these LD internet relationships have at least 1 person who is NOT telling the truth about their situation. It shows how easy it is to say and become anyone you want to be when your facts cannot be disputed and how people in these relationships will believe whatever is said since they become very invested emotionally.

 

Not saying at all this is what is happening to Happy. In fact I wish when her MM finally comes to live with her next week, life will be as she imagined.

 

All I can say is some people do "fantasy" very well. Reality does not work too well for some. Happy has 4 children this man will have to adjust to.He has a grown daughter and may have forgotten all that entails in raising kids. He may be ready in his mind. But will the reality of the situation translate?

 

I am all for love. But I am also realistic.

Many people will not do LDR anymore because the reality has not turned out well.

[So happy together]

Let's not kid ourselves. There are wives, and then there are mistresses. Whether you want to believe it or not it IS a hierarchy in the minds of men and society albeit a sexist one. That is why so many mistresses long to be the wifeand NOT the mistress.

 

I'm not a mistress. You forget... I took center stage from the beginning. He left for me. My relationship is simply that. A relationship. I don't care if I am EVER a wife. I've been there already. I'd be happy to be his girlfriend for the rest of my life. I don't know about other relationships... I just know about mine. And it was MY relationship that was attacked, as usual. I am simply his girlfriend, and our relationship is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIP... including Skype... So there's that.

[So happy together]

Love and romance are a funny thing. In fact only in love and romance will someone give blind trust because we tend to want to believe what the ones we love tell us. I am not being a pessimist. Just saying a person who lives far away can tell you anything and you cannot prove fact.

 

Isn't there an indie movie now turning into a reality television show which shows how many of these LD internet relationships have at least 1 person who is NOT telling the truth about their situation. It shows how easy it is to say and become anyone you want to be when your facts cannot be disputed and how people in these relationships will believe whatever is said since they become very invested emotionally.

 

Not saying at all this is what is happening to Happy. In fact I wish when her MM finally comes to live with her next week, life will be as she imagined.

 

All I can say is some people do "fantasy" very well. Reality does not work too well for some. Happy has 4 children this man will have to adjust to.He has a grown daughter and may have forgotten all that entails in raising kids. He may be ready in his mind. But will the reality of the situation translate?

 

I am all for love. But I am also realistic.

Many people will not do LDR anymore because the reality has not turned out well.

 

While I do understand this point of view... we are not an internet relationship. I've known him my whole adult life. He knows my kids. So, I can see what you mean about people doing 'fantasy' not very well, it's just not our R. Every time I post, there are those that would attack 'me'. Not even what I say, just ANYTHING I say. I don't really care, I just think it's ridiculous. So, I'll continue to say it because I believe there are some that may need to hear it. My point was, the 1700 miles is no different for us than it is any LDR.

 

Just a small aside, not moving here next week. I'll be moving there soon, it's been pushed a little on my end because my mother is ill, but he is visiting me and my fam. It will be a good visit.

Edited July 31, 2013 by So happy together

[HopingAgain]

I'm not a mistress. You forget... I took center stage from the beginning. He left for me. My relationship is simply that. A relationship. I don't care if I am EVER a wife. I've been there already. I'd be happy to be his girlfriend for the rest of my life. I don't know about other relationships... I just know about mine. And it was MY relationship that was attacked, as usual. I am simply his girlfriend, and our relationship is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIP... including Skype... So there's that.

 

Technically until he's divorced you are the mistress. And your MM had an exit affair whichis very different from most affairs where OW sits and waits on MM.

[So happy together]

Technically until he's divorced you are the mistress. And your MM had an exit affair whichis very different from most affairs where OW sits and waits on MM.

 

I guess if it makes you feel better to think of me as still being the mistress, have at it. HE doesn't consider me his mistress, and I don't consider myself a mistress. BUT... I was his mistress in the beginning. I don't deny it. And if others choose to wait on a MM, that is their decision.

 

Adding to that, technically, if a BS is still married to a MM, she'll ALWAYS be BS, even if he ends the A, simply because he cheated... so she was betrayed... will always have that title. Until she leaves him and divorces.

Edited July 31, 2013 by So happy together

[HopingAgain]

I guess if it makes you feel better to think of me as still being the mistress, have at it. HE doesn't consider me his mistress, and I don't consider myself a mistress. BUT... I was his mistress in the beginning. I don't deny it. And if others choose to wait on a MM, that is their decision.

 

Adding to that, technically, if a BS is still married to a MM, she'll ALWAYS be BS, even if he ends the A, simply because he cheated... so she was betrayed... will always have that title. Until she leaves him and divorces.

 

You are forgetting this is a message board, we are all here discussing but what you do or don't do has no effect on my feelings for better or worse. Lol. And nice try attempting to make the label of BS carry the same stigma as mistress. It doesn't. People do tend to move on from the BS label even within a marriage. Not so much from the mistress stigma.

[So happy together]

You are forgetting this is a message board, we are all here discussing but what you do or don't do has no effect on my feelings for better or worse. Lol. And nice try attempting to make the label of BS carry the same stigma as mistress. It doesn't. People do tend to move on from the BS label even within a marriage. Not so much from the mistress stigma.

 

That is my point. We've moved on. Just as BS's do. Frankly, I'm not worried about the label. If people talk, they talk. When we move, we won't be where anyone knew anyway.

[Moper]

I guess if it makes you feel better to think of me as still being the mistress, have at it. HE doesn't consider me his mistress, and I don't consider myself a mistress. BUT... I was his mistress in the beginning. I don't deny it. And if others choose to wait on a MM, that is their decision.

 

Adding to that, technically, if a BS is still married to a MM, she'll ALWAYS be BS, even if he ends the A, simply because he cheated... so she was betrayed... will always have that title. Until she leaves him and divorces.

 

Every situation is different, don't you think?

 

We are all BS in one way or another. Aren't we?

 

I am not a Christian but I do admire the thing about letting he without sin cast the first stone.

 

If you have found your answer, Happy, then I applaud you. The internet b.s. board race between you and those who want to knock you down a peg makes no sense to me, but then right at this moment I make no sense to me either.

[Betterthanthis13]

I'm not a mistress. You forget... I took center stage from the beginning. He left for me. My relationship is simply that. A relationship. I don't care if I am EVER a wife. I've been there already. I'd be happy to be his girlfriend for the rest of my life. I don't know about other relationships... I just know about mine. And it was MY relationship that was attacked, as usual. I am simply his girlfriend, and our relationship is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIP... including Skype... So there's that.

 

I keep finding your personal situation getting analyzed in the threads and you explaining your relationship I can see why people say the things they do, but I also think I can see your side.

 

I do believe your situation was/is different than most EMR's. And I respect the fact that you try to provide empathy, counsel, and non judgement for those who are in affairs. I think that you are in a position to help a lot of people, and your heart is in the right place, but you are just using your knowledge and experience in slightly the wrong way, and it is causing negative reactions.

 

I think we can all agree that a WS being either 1. truly remorseful, confessing fully on his own, 100% into reconciliation, and never cheating again or 2.in a sexless, loveless marriage and 100% certain from the beginning ofthe A he wants to divorce his wife and start a new life with OW, but legitimate circumstances are holding things up are rare. Those outcomes are not the norm. They are the happy endings that everyone wants to believe are going to happen to them. But that's not reality.

 

Think about a BS who's in the BS happy ending group(ex 1 above) giving advice to other BS's on the board. Her marriage is better now than before the A. Her husband cheated one time on a business trip, immediately regretted it, full confession, is truly remorseful, they go to MC and IC, he goes above and beyond with his efforts to repair the damage, and they now live in bliss. So she comes on LS and tells other BS's- well, affairs are neither good nor bad, they sometimes have positive results, my relationship is good, true reconciliation is definitely possible, I am an example of it.

 

Everything she said is potentially true, but also potentially very damaging to people who aren't in a similar situation.

 

So the BS who's husband is a narcissistic lying POS who SAYS all the right things but in reality can barely can drag himself to one MC session, is blaming her for his affairs, is still in contact with AP, etc... gets false hope.

 

The more helpful advice the happy ending BS could give, and general position she could take would be- Yes, my husband made a terrible choice by cheating and in doing so he hurt 3 people. I understand why he did it and based on xyz I believe he will never do it again. Recon IS possible, as you can tell I am very happy with my marriage, but I trust him fully because he did xyz and xyz and xyz...... So those are some examples of how I knew beyond a doubt that I was making the right choice to forgive him.

 

Then, the absence of all that evidence of true remorse becomes more obvious to the BS who is getting half truths and being sold a bill of goods by a WS who is simply blowing smoke and playing both sides.

 

We all want to believe our situation is different, that we are special enough to not be the common statistic in the infidelity nightmare. I know I am now, and it sucks. I'd much rather believe my cheater was a good guy that just got a little confused. But believing that will not help me, it will just waste my time, damage me even more, and prevent me from making any true progress in my life. Anyway I hope you get what I'm saying and don't take offense, I wish you the best in your relationship, hope your mom is well, and best of luck with your move

[LivingWaterPlease]

Sometimes these threads get bogged down with the W vs OW and OW vs W pride issues. It goes both ways. Not to point a finger at any one particular person as I also observe largesse of one side toward the other from time to time.

 

It's just, whichever side you happen to be on, W or OW, when you get overly caught up in the pride of your position you end up making a point for the "other side."

 

"Me thinks the lady doth protest too much!" works both ways!

[LivingWaterPlease]

Ummm..The thread is about ow v BS isn't it?

 

Yes

 

 

 

(post must be at least 10 characters so adding this!)