My take on infidelity and leaving wife for OW.

[janedoe67]

I actually wasn't talking about Furious I thought what she said was funny and sensible. I was referring to those who date MM upon him spewing about his unhappy marriage and that being an interesting response.

 

Ahhh.....have I mentioned I used to be blond....

 

In that case, you make a very good point.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't know that I entirely disagree with j'adore. If a marriage is 100% happy, still shiny and sparkly and wonderful, it takes up too much of your headspace to give room for infidelity. Even when some of the shine is gone, it's unthinkable. But at some point it starts to become 'thinkable'. And that might be because something is missing. The issue for me is that that 'something missing' can be found again, that in fact it might come back on it's own as all relationships are cyclical unless entirely dead, that it isn't hopeless and there are ways to address this situation, one of which is NOT to have an affair. In fact extensive and unhealthily obsessive readig on here indicates to me that an affair is a damned good way to eff it up completely and gradually paint the marriage as a loveless hellhole when in fact it probably isn't but it suffers by comparision.

 

I agree with this. A person who is happy with their lot doesn't cheat. In my view.

 

I think the arguments start because that statement is seen as a weapon against [someone]. My ex cheated loads. He had no reason, he said, to fault me (although looking back I can see how my passive stance didn't help matters), but that he needed attention, needed excitement. Yes, our relationship was exciting, but when I wasn't around enough (silly me, having a job!!) he would start to lose interest.

 

He wasn't happy. Because he wasn't happy, he cheated.

 

It wasn't my fault he wasn't happy, however.

[jlola]

I don't know that I entirely disagree with j'adore. If a marriage is 100% happy, still shiny and sparkly and wonderful, it takes up too much of your headspace to give room for infidelity.

 

.

 

 

No marriage stays shiny and sparkly. No relationship can stay that way all 24'7.Relationships are cyclical read "stages of a relationship". We have come to expect the fairytale. The #1 reason for divorce is unrealistic expectations.

 

My oldest sister got married for the 5th time 2 years ago. Barely 40. I sent her information of "stages of a relationship" and also the "science of love". Smart woman, but poo-pooed these science revelations as myths and bullcrap.

 

She said husband #5 was the "love of her life" and she has never loved that way before. He was her true soulmate. Well, when her high came crashing down(body chemicals back to normal) she was not so in love anymore. this happened less than a year into the marriage(but had known him total of 3 years). Everyone has tried to council her to stick it out. Now that she is in financial trouble, she is sticking to this marriage for a bit longer. But it is a sinking ship. I could have told #5 she likes the thrill of the chase. She likes the high of the first years of new love. She has unrealistic expectations of what a marriage and husband can do for her. She expects him to make her happy.

 

I could have told him all of this, but he would not have believed me or any of the 4 men before him. Simply because he too was wearing rose colored glasses at the time. Too in love to wonder why it is all the ex's fault and never hers. Now he knows. She plays a huge part in the demise of her relationships. But when you are only hearing her side, it makes perfect sense. Till you speak with the other person. then you begin to see the craks in her logic. You begin to see she has no impulse control,no boundaries, no respect.

 

Now I could tell him how he can keep her forever. Keep her chasing. She loves that. The only relationship she had no control over and which she stayed chasing even after she married was a loser who kept her on her toes. Never giving her all of him. Now had Mr. loser married her,she would have lost all interest. But the fact she did not have him kept her longing for him.

 

Husband #5 was a hard catch also. Till he gave in. Then she slowly lost interest once she had him.

 

No matter how perfect the man, she will never be happy. Problem lays ith her. Next man will learn that.

[HopingAgain]

This comment is completely delusional Happy as a clam and have an affair' date=' goodness sake! if a person feels no respect for their marriage, then obviously there is only one other party involved and they have no respect for that person!!!!! Now we are saying it is the marriage not the person.... sheesh... there would be some good politicians on here I guess.[/quote']

 

What's delusional is not realizing that there are all types of people in this world with all types of capabilities. I've seen people who were very happy with their marriages but had holes inside themselves somewhere and went on to cheat. And then some just want it all. A loving spouse at home and a playmate on the side. Don't fool yourself, it happens and more often than you think.

[findingnemo]

Why do we refuse to accept that some marriages are hell on earth? That sometimes people stay M because they would not want to break up the family and yet their spouse is a huge problem? The fact that while most cheaters are really selfish and have no justification, some have reasons that are understandable. Not everybody can wake up and end a M just like that. We see that with BS' who R and with WS' who choose to stay M in circumstances which we think require a D. People sometimes get pushed into taking the easy road.

 

There are people who are unhappily married and won't cheat. We can't know why. We can assume all we want that they were ALL honest and principled but it could have simply been a lack of opportunity for some. Given the opportunity, they would have had an A rather than go through hell ending a long term M.

 

Personally I believe a BS who is an alcoholic, drug user, refuses to have sex, is NPD or BPD or any of those other disorders really has no leg to stand on when an A happens. It's all neat and clear for us to use "morality" to help define right and wrong. But let's get real.

 

The BS' that come here are searching for answers. That quality alone makes me think that they are probably not in the categories I listed above. But it also makes them capable of understanding that killing a M can take two people. Yet here we are completely ignoring the circumstances of Happy's A and how it started in the first place.

 

I feel zero, nil sympathy for the BS involved in Happy's situation. The vows say for better or for worse, in sickness and in health. They don't say in perpetual self-Inflicted sickness. They don't say an entire family should suffer because of one human being who refuses to change. Hell no!!

[HappyAtLast]

Sorry to say, but if you believe that its solely your feelings for one person versus another that determines whether you will cheat again or not,, you're in for a rude awakening. Cheating is a character defect within oneself, not one caused or solved by another person. Said with my former WS hat on...

 

I can say definitively that this is true for me. I have been married with to my affair partner for upwards of forty years now, I am well into my eighties. I have never stepped out on my wife and I would not think that I am in for any rude awakenings at this point in the game. I guess I am not sure exactly what the point of your post is? Would you mind explaining further?

[findingnemo]

In my earlier post, I was referring to So Happy Together. I can see how confusing it can get with all the Happy people around.

[Phoe]

I'm not going to trudge through all 7 pages before putting in my response to the OP so please excuse this if it's totally off the current conversation, but...

 

I don't think there is any way to calculate who will cheat, not cheat, leave, or not leave.

 

 

 

 

Some happy men cheat. Some don't.

 

 

I've know a horrifically unhappy man who won't cheat and won't leave because of some ridiculous sense of obligation. But he can't stand her. Wishes SHE would be the one to leave.

[Betterthanthis13]

Why do we refuse to accept that some marriages are hell on earth? That sometimes people stay M because they would not want to break up the family and yet their spouse is a huge problem? The fact that while most cheaters are really selfish and have no justification, some have reasons that are understandable. Not everybody can wake up and end a M just like that. We see that with BS' who R and with WS' who choose to stay M in circumstances which we think require a D. People sometimes get pushed into taking the easy road.

 

There are people who are unhappily married and won't cheat. We can't know why. We can assume all we want that they were ALL honest and principled but it could have simply been a lack of opportunity for some. Given the opportunity, they would have had an A rather than go through hell ending a long term M.

 

Personally I believe a BS who is an alcoholic, drug user, refuses to have sex, is NPD or BPD or any of those other disorders really has no leg to stand on when an A happens. It's all neat and clear for us to use "morality" to help define right and wrong. But let's get real.

 

The BS' that come here are searching for answers. That quality alone makes me think that they are probably not in the categories I listed above. But it also makes them capable of understanding that killing a M can take two people. Yet here we are completely ignoring the circumstances of Happy's A and how it started in the first place.

 

I feel zero, nil sympathy for the BS involved in Happy's situation. The vows say for better or for worse, in sickness and in health. They don't say in perpetual self-Inflicted sickness. They don't say an entire family should suffer because of one human being who refuses to change. Hell no!!

 

Why, in these extreme cases, can't the WS remove the lying and deceit portion of the A while it is still in the forming stages?

 

"Wife/husband: I am giving up all hope of us ever having a good marriage according to the terms of our original aggreement because of X problems that are not being addressed. X has been a problem for a very long time and all efforts to resolve it thus far have not worked. Therefore, I would like a new agreement. I would like to remain in the marriage at face value because of (living situation/finances/children/friendship, whatever)

 

I am informing you that I now consider the monogamy portion of our marriage contract to be terminated effective immediately. We can negotiate what the rules of the new contract will look like, or we can discuss divorce, but I am drawing my line in the sand. Because of your volatile nature Id like to get our marriage contract amended by an attorney."

 

Ok maybe that's a little farfetched, but if it were common practice it would eliminate a lot of problems, and give OW who are being LIED TO some power to say- "oh yeah? Your wife is so frigid/mean/ whatever? Amend the marriage contract if you can't leave her."

[jlola]

Why do we refuse to accept that some marriages are hell on earth? That sometimes people stay M because they would not want to break up the family and yet their spouse is a huge problem? The fact that while most cheaters are really selfish and have no justification, some have reasons that are understandable. Not everybody can wake up and end a M just like that. We see that with BS' who R and with WS' who choose to stay M in circumstances which we think require a D. People sometimes get pushed into taking the easy road.

 

There are people who are unhappily married and won't cheat. We can't know why. We can assume all we want that they were ALL honest and principled but it could have simply been a lack of opportunity for some.

 

 

I feel zero, nil sympathy for the BS involved in Happy's situation. The vows say for better or for worse, in sickness and in health. They don't say in perpetual self-Inflicted sickness. They don't say an entire family should suffer because of one human being who refuses to change. Hell no!!

 

I don't think anyone is refusing to accept there are marriages that are hell on Earth. It is a fact and I agree with you.

 

People are just saying that the opposite happens. some are happy in marriage, but like to play.

 

As for the BS in Happy's situation. Happy and her man have one side of the story. She may have another. I cannot help but wonder why WS stayed with such a shrew of a wife for all these years. Really? He was afraid she would get custody and stayed to protect the daughter?

 

With the ways laws are, at a certain age, the girl would have gone to court if there was a divorce and decided which parent she wanted to stay with. If WS is such a great father,she would of course have chosen him.

 

To pretend to be a martyr and stay to protect the children is bull!

 

They are where they want to be. I say the same for my parents. My abusive cheating father never left my mother because he loved having his cake and eating it too. He always used the "kids" as an excuse. But he really did not care about us. To the outside world, he presented himself "father of the year'..

 

My mother would use the fact she was protecting us from having to have visitation alone on weekends. Again, as we got older, the courts would not have forced us to go to a man who was physically abusive had we said no.

 

I understand this well now. She stayed because SHE wanted to. Both pretty sick in their own ways.

 

BTW, any woman can have an affair. It is like shooting fish in a barrel, so to say it comes to opportunity is not true. I have been hit on by MM SINCE I WAS 13! It continues till this day. It is real easy to find a Mm in my town(one of the best and expensive zip codes in the world). In coffee shops, at supermarkets.walking my dog, in parks,with girlfriends. MM are not shy to come up and chat. Mistresses are common here.

 

Nice cars,jewelry,homes. whatever, if you are willing to be one of those you may live quite a comfy life.

 

Not bragging, but was blessed with excellent genetics and even in my 30's I can still pass as 20's. Tall, thin and have heard every line in the book!But I have morals, I have empathy and I have a conscious. I would never put a woman through what I saw my mother and others go through.

If he is so unhappy in his marriage get out,then call me. Otherwise, you made your bed. And for whatever reason, you chose to lay in it. Not my business to fix it for you or to insert myself in you and your spouse's business.

[HopingAgain]

I can say definitively that this is true for me. I have been married with to my affair partner for upwards of forty years now, I am well into my eighties. I have never stepped out on my wife and I would not think that I am in for any rude awakenings at this point in the game. I guess I am not sure exactly what the point of your post is? Would you mind explaining further?

 

Congratulations on 40 years of happy marriage. I'm sure that's no easy feat to accomplish.

 

To reword what I was saying, your first post in this thread made it sound as if a person cheats BECAUSE of the person they are with. Your first wife didn't make you cheat. Your current wife didn't make you NOT cheat. You made those choices, its what inside of you that caused you to cheat in the first place, and then later not to cheat. The rude awakening would be realizing that others are not responsible for YOUR choices.

[So happy together]

I don't think anyone is refusing to accept there are marriages that are hell on Earth. It is a fact and I agree with you.

 

People are just saying that the opposite happens. some are happy in marriage, but like to play.

 

As for the BS in Happy's situation. Happy and her man have one side of the story. She may have another. I cannot help but wonder why WS stayed with such a shrew of a wife for all these years. Really? He was afraid she would get custody and stayed to protect the daughter?

 

With the ways laws are, at a certain age, the girl would have gone to court if there was a divorce and decided which parent she wanted to stay with. If WS is such a great father,she would of course have chosen him.

 

To pretend to be a martyr and stay to protect the children is bull!

 

They are where they want to be. I say the same for my parents. My abusive cheating father never left my mother because he loved having his cake and eating it too. He always used the "kids" as an excuse. But he really did not care about us. To the outside world, he presented himself "father of the year'..

 

My mother would use the fact she was protecting us from having to have visitation alone on weekends. Again, as we got older, the courts would not have forced us to go to a man who was physically abusive had we said no.

 

I understand this well now. She stayed because SHE wanted to. Both pretty sick in their own ways.

 

BTW, any woman can have an affair. It is like shooting fish in a barrel, so to say it comes to opportunity is not true. I have been hit on by MM SINCE I WAS 13! It continues till this day. It is real easy to find a Mm in my town(one of the best and expensive zip codes in the world). In coffee shops, at supermarkets.walking my dog, in parks,with girlfriends. MM are not shy to come up and chat. Mistresses are common here.

 

Nice cars,jewelry,homes. whatever, if you are willing to be one of those you may live quite a comfy life.

 

Not bragging, but was blessed with excellent genetics and even in my 30's I can still pass as 20's. Tall, thin and have heard every line in the book!But I have morals, I have empathy and I have a conscious. I would never put a woman through what I saw my mother and others go through.

If he is so unhappy in his marriage get out,then call me. Otherwise, you made your bed. And for whatever reason, you chose to lay in it. Not my business to fix it for you or to insert myself in you and your spouse's business.

 

 

You know, I would like to point out that my boyfriend never used his daughter as an excuse to stay married to me. I'm simply stating why he stayed in an unhappy marriage for all of those years. And yes, he did stay to raise his daughter, and had some financial obligation to his stbxw. Once he and I began a relationship all bets were off and he immediately began making preparations to get out of the marriage. So, he didn't use his daughter as an excuse to stay married and have an active affair. We both knew we should have begun our R after he'd left. We made the decision not to and he left as soon as it was feasible. Actually, sooner than we had planned. I'm not making excuses for him having an A. I was explaining why he felt he shouldn't leave at that time. He has had no other affairs. He is not a serial cheater. He has guilt. He's worked through it. All good.

[findingnemo]

Why, in these extreme cases, can't the WS remove the lying and deceit portion of the A while it is still in the forming stages?

 

"Wife/husband: I am giving up all hope of us ever having a good marriage according to the terms of our original aggreement because of X problems that are not being addressed. X has been a problem for a very long time and all efforts to resolve it thus far have not worked. Therefore, I would like a new agreement. I would like to remain in the marriage at face value because of (living situation/finances/children/friendship, whatever)

 

I am informing you that I now consider the monogamy portion of our marriage contract to be terminated effective immediately. We can negotiate what the rules of the new contract will look like, or we can discuss divorce, but I am drawing my line in the sand. Because of your volatile nature Id like to get our marriage contract amended by an attorney."

 

Ok maybe that's a little farfetched, but if it were common practice it would eliminate a lot of problems, and give OW who are being LIED TO some power to say- "oh yeah? Your wife is so frigid/mean/ whatever? Amend the marriage contract if you can't leave her."

 

Personally I don't care what power OM/OW gets in an A. It is not about them. It is about the WS and the BS. Ideally, it would be nice for a MM to tell his W that from this point on he is going to eff around because she simply is incapable of staying sober or making love or being honest about the money she throws away gambling or , or, or...

 

But what if he tells her that? Will it make her leave him? Will the fact that he told her make getting a D easier? If they have underage kids, will his honesty give him full custody of the kids when she later files for divorce citing adultery? The realities of Ds do not change unless the circumstances are quite extraordinary. Your W has to be a criminal for you to get custody. Your H can find loopholes in the law to ensure he keeps most of the family money simply because you were a SAHM. A SAHM can get a lot more than you think is fair simply because she knows she better not work in order to get more alimony. Divorce is one of the most disorganizing events in life. No wonder people would rather avoid dealing with it.

 

As much as we want WS' to be truthful, so should BS'. Many of them are. Many of them own their part of the problem and work towards creating a better marriage. But let's admit that some don't. Some do not want to change, or feel there is a need to change and take advantage of the legal bond of M to maintain their positions.

[summerdowling87]

Sometimes, not always.

 

Not 2 stir the pot but...

 

I don't get that.

 

I mean the person cheated on the partner the vowed to be faithful to and didn't so why wouldn't they cheat on their AP?

 

The spouse or partner wasn't special enough for the cheaters fidelity so why should the AP be any different or expect any different?

[Got it]

Not 2 stir the pot but...

 

I don't get that.

 

I mean the person cheated on the partner the vowed to be faithful to and didn't so why wouldn't they cheat on their AP?

 

The spouse or partner wasn't special enough for the cheaters fidelity so why should the AP be any different or expect any different?

 

Because you are taking a very shallow tit for tat approach. Could that be the case? Absolutely. But does it mean it always would be? No. There are other dynamics at play that can alter this scenario.

 

If the above premise was true then one could never reconcile again with a cheating spouse because it assumes they will cheat again. Does it happen? Sure. But not always as there are some definitely successful reconciliations.

 

Same process can be in place even if the WS does not stay married to their BS. They can still do the work needed on themselves that changes their internal coping mechanisms so that cheating is not a mechanism they choose again. Whether or not a person cheats has nothing to do with whom they are with but how they have changed, or not changed, their internal processes.

 

So whether or not the spouse was special enough for fidelity puts the power/onus on the spouse and saying that their worth would have been a factor. That is not the case. So the same goes for the AP/S.

 

Same scenario for those that go on to divorce and date others. They could continue to cheat, they may not. It really just depends.

[findingnemo]

I don't think anyone is refusing to accept there are marriages that are hell on Earth. It is a fact and I agree with you.

 

People are just saying that the opposite happens. some are happy in marriage, but like to play.

 

As for the BS in Happy's situation. Happy and her man have one side of the story. She may have another. I cannot help but wonder why WS stayed with such a shrew of a wife for all these years. Really? He was afraid she would get custody and stayed to protect the daughter?

 

With the ways laws are, at a certain age, the girl would have gone to court if there was a divorce and decided which parent she wanted to stay with. If WS is such a great father,she would of course have chosen him.

 

To pretend to be a martyr and stay to protect the children is bull!

 

They are where they want to be. I say the same for my parents. My abusive cheating father never left my mother because he loved having his cake and eating it too. He always used the "kids" as an excuse. But he really did not care about us. To the outside world, he presented himself "father of the year'..

 

My mother would use the fact she was protecting us from having to have visitation alone on weekends. Again, as we got older, the courts would not have forced us to go to a man who was physically abusive had we said no.

 

I understand this well now. She stayed because SHE wanted to. Both pretty sick in their own ways.

 

BTW, any woman can have an affair. It is like shooting fish in a barrel, so to say it comes to opportunity is not true. I have been hit on by MM SINCE I WAS 13! It continues till this day. It is real easy to find a Mm in my town(one of the best and expensive zip codes in the world). In coffee shops, at supermarkets.walking my dog, in parks,with girlfriends. MM are not shy to come up and chat. Mistresses are common here.

 

Nice cars,jewelry,homes. whatever, if you are willing to be one of those you may live quite a comfy life.

 

Not bragging, but was blessed with excellent genetics and even in my 30's I can still pass as 20's. Tall, thin and have heard every line in the book!But I have morals, I have empathy and I have a conscious. I would never put a woman through what I saw my mother and others go through.

If he is so unhappy in his marriage get out,then call me. Otherwise, you made your bed. And for whatever reason, you chose to lay in it. Not my business to fix it for you or to insert myself in you and your spouse's business.

 

Yes, as I said, some cheaters are just selfish. I guess my rant is a result of all the arguments against So Happy Together. She is obviously sure of her situation. At least as sure as she can be right now. Yet all over LS people keep arguing with her. It is as if it is not possible that her xMM, now BF could be serious about his exit A.

 

Regarding staying with shrews... It happens. Shrews were once normal, loving people. They have a history, family ties, a past. People who stay with their addict spouses love them and really wish that they could be normal again. I think staying for years with a "sick" person is commendable. You have to try, right? You have to hope. You have to find a solution...and this takes years sometimes before you know that it's hopeless.

 

As a BW who also suffered domestic abuse, I have to tell you that we stay because of so many reasons. First, the spouse we love is not always a monster. In fact, they can be really good people most of the time. It takes a while to accept reality. The reality is that you (the abused person) made such a horrific choice. One feels like the abuse, the fact that one is abused reflects on them. It's normal. Most battered people at first think its their fault because its the only thing that makes sense. The abuser (like your father) doesn't need to leave. He is in paradise. Why would he leave?

 

As a mother I can't, even now, imagine subjecting my children to witnessing against their father. Court? Airing our dirty, shameful laundry in public? Nope. What about me? Do I really want everybody to know? I never once called the police. I needed help but I was so ashamed on so many levels that I shut up and kept the dirty secret hidden. So no... I stayed because I needed to maintain a shred of dignity. I didn't stay because I wanted to be beaten up. I didn't want to be treated like I had no rights in my own home. But leaving meant admitting I had made a mistake in my choice of mate. It meant I had failed. It meant people would know that he hit ME. If your mother chose anything, it sure wasn't to live in fear. If she chose to stay, however wrong she was, she chose the only way she knew to protect you and thereby sacrificed her own happiness for you.

 

Battered women don't stay because of fear of leaving. They stay because they are broken.

 

(The rest of your post about being hit on by MMs, I agree with 100%).

[summerdowling87]

Because you are taking a very shallow tit for tat approach. Could that be the case? Absolutely. But does it mean it always would be? No. There are other dynamics at play that can alter this scenario.

 

If the above premise was true then one could never reconcile again with a cheating spouse because it assumes they will cheat again. Does it happen? Sure. But not always as there are some definitely successful reconciliations.

 

Same process can be in place even if the WS does not stay married to their BS. They can still do the work needed on themselves that changes their internal coping mechanisms so that cheating is not a mechanism they choose again. Whether or not a person cheats has nothing to do with whom they are with but how they have changed, or not changed, their internal processes.

 

So whether or not the spouse was special enough for fidelity puts the power/onus on the spouse and saying that their worth would have been a factor. That is not the case. So the same goes for the AP/S.

 

Same scenario for those that go on to divorce and date others. They could continue to cheat, they may not. It really just depends.

 

I see what you are saying and you make good points.

 

However to me-(my opinion) a person shouldn't expect their AP to be faithful to them if they couldn't or wouldn't remain faith to their spouse or partner.

 

To me it's like saying "I won't divorce you"- "But I will cheat on ya.

 

Or saying "I won't leave my partner but I will cheat on them"

[So happy together]

I see what you are saying and you make good points.

 

However to me-(my opinion) a person shouldn't expect their AP to be faithful to them if they couldn't or wouldn't remain faith to their spouse or partner.

 

To me it's like saying "I won't divorce you"- "But I will cheat on ya.

 

Or saying "I won't leave my partner but I will cheat on them"

 

It's really just silly to lump every MM/MW into this category. Do you really believe there is no redemption?

[So happy together]

Yes, as I said, some cheaters are just selfish. I guess my rant is a result of all the arguments against So Happy Together. She is obviously sure of her situation. At least as sure as she can be right now. Yet all over LS people keep arguing with her. It is as if it is not possible that her xMM, now BF could be serious about his exit A.

 

Regarding staying with shrews... It happens. Shrews were once normal, loving people. They have a history, family ties, a past. People who stay with their addict spouses love them and really wish that they could be normal again. I think staying for years with a "sick" person is commendable. You have to try, right? You have to hope. You have to find a solution...and this takes years sometimes before you know that it's hopeless.

 

As a BW who also suffered domestic abuse, I have to tell you that we stay because of so many reasons. First, the spouse we love is not always a monster. In fact, they can be really good people most of the time. It takes a while to accept reality. The reality is that you (the abused person) made such a horrific choice. One feels like the abuse, the fact that one is abused reflects on them. It's normal. Most battered people at first think its their fault because its the only thing that makes sense. The abuser (like your father) doesn't need to leave. He is in paradise. Why would he leave?

 

As a mother I can't, even now, imagine subjecting my children to witnessing against their father. Court? Airing our dirty, shameful laundry in public? Nope. What about me? Do I really want everybody to know? I never once called the police. I needed help but I was so ashamed on so many levels that I shut up and kept the dirty secret hidden. So no... I stayed because I needed to maintain a shred of dignity. I didn't stay because I wanted to be beaten up. I didn't want to be treated like I had no rights in my own home. But leaving meant admitting I had made a mistake in my choice of mate. It meant I had failed. It meant people would know that he hit ME. If your mother chose anything, it sure wasn't to live in fear. If she chose to stay, however wrong she was, she chose the only way she knew to protect you and thereby sacrificed her own happiness for you.

 

Battered women don't stay because of fear of leaving. They stay because they are broken.

 

(The rest of your post about being hit on by MMs, I agree with 100%).

 

 

Great post!

[janedoe67]

As much as we want WS' to be truthful, so should BS'. Many of them are. Many of them own their part of the problem and work towards creating a better marriage. But let's admit that some don't. Some do not want to change, or feel there is a need to change and take advantage of the legal bond of M to maintain their positions. ]

 

Truth

 

I think that is what bothers me. I remember the "faking orgasm" scene in When Harry met Sally where Harry was saying no one had ever faked with him and Sally rolled her eyes. He asked her why, and she said:

 

It's just that most women at one time or the other have faked it and all men say it's never happened with them so you do the math.

 

Do the math. There are a lot of WS's saying they were miserable when they cheated (not that that is EVER an excuse), and yet almost every BS I read about swears up and down it was a great marraige.

 

Do the math. Yeah, WS's can rewrite history. But not ALL of them are lying about being unhappy. So somebody somewhere is in denial.

 

Admitting it wasn't the perfect marriage is NOT the same thing as excusing cheating. My A was 100% on ME - MY choice.

 

But I can respect that my husband is honest enough to actually admit that our marriage had/has serious issues that he shares a part in.

Edited July 21, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Got it]

Personally I don't care what power OM/OW gets in an A. It is not about them. It is about the WS and the BS. Ideally, it would be nice for a MM to tell his W that from this point on he is going to eff around because she simply is incapable of staying sober or making love or being honest about the money she throws away gambling or , or, or...

 

But what if he tells her that? Will it make her leave him? Will the fact that he told her make getting a D easier? If they have underage kids, will his honesty give him full custody of the kids when she later files for divorce citing adultery? The realities of Ds do not change unless the circumstances are quite extraordinary. Your W has to be a criminal for you to get custody. Your H can find loopholes in the law to ensure he keeps most of the family money simply because you were a SAHM. A SAHM can get a lot more than you think is fair simply because she knows she better not work in order to get more alimony. Divorce is one of the most disorganizing events in life. No wonder people would rather avoid dealing with it.

 

As much as we want WS' to be truthful, so should BS'. Many of them are. Many of them own their part of the problem and work towards creating a better marriage. But let's admit that some don't. Some do not want to change, or feel there is a need to change and take advantage of the legal bond of M to maintain their positions.

 

I agree. My parents were not happy together. But my dad stands by why he stayed because of financial and child concerns. He was not earning enough to support two households and did not want us to have a significant drop in lifestyle to have them divorce. He was also worried about my brother and my mom's relationship with him. So he says he stayed.

 

As one of the children I have never understood that but I do defer to him as I was not an adult in the situation. I feel that staying caused a great deal of damage but I can't say I definitively know what it would have been like if he left and I allow a reasonable assumption that his concerns were legit and valid. There are consequences to his decision to stay that he is accountable for.

 

But having stay left us with a very unhappy and anger man. My childhood had a good deal of anxiety in it and I still deal with triggers from it. I wonder if he left if that would have caused us to have less of a relationship with him because he would not have been front and center and we would have had more decision making power. I wonder if he suspected that as well and that was a reason for him staying.

 

There are a lot of unknowns, what I know is I saw two people who didn't get along, I saw almost ever holiday stressed because of fight brewing or an actual fight, or a father who walked off. I remember more vacations marred by his temper, we grew up with a great deal of fear of him. And I saw the police called and him taken away in handcuffs because he pushed my mom out the door and he was arrested for battery. (Now later I found out it was tied to her forgetting her affair from . . . 15 years prior and making some comment that really triggered him. But regardless of the reason, as the child I saw him handle things with his temper.)

 

I think that many people stay married, unhappily, because the good outweighs the bad. And the good can be as positive as a good relationship with the spouse to as negative as the fear of unknown, being alone, etc. The marriage, and the trappings with it are more comfortable. It can include the kids and fears of not seeing them, financial, etc. The reality of life, many people will put up with certain amount because it is better than the alternative.

 

And in regards to the topic at hand, I think one has to look at the base line of "what is happiness", how does one measure it, what is enough, what is unreasonable, etc. I think this is subjective, fluid, and easily skewed and flawed.

 

I believe that logic does little to play into why one chooses whatever coping mechanism that they do. It is a script that can be written from decades ago, one that they aren't conscious of, but one that is there nevertheless. I don't believe that most people are that in tuned with themselves, let alone others, and continue to try and figure out the "whys" on their actions, reactions, and emotional make up.

 

I think a major piece, I am learning, to look at in someone is their level of contentment in life. I think those that are discontent more often and in more areas (which can make them very successful in a professional arena as they continue to push to achieve more) will stand a better chance of cutting and running. On the flip side, I think those that are discontent, whom seem to see the negative in life, but do little to put actions to words, will cheat but not leave as they never had it in them to actually affect change and instead self medicate. And then there is a plethora of others in the spectrum that do so for a multitude of other reasons.

[2sure]

I've read most affairs happen during a stage in the marriage and in life when there is a lull or when having kids or demanding jobs puts some distance between spouses. The distance creates at atmosphere where not everyone's needs can be met. Some may call it a stage, some call it an unhappy marriage. Both valid.

 

It's also very important to note tht while both spouses need to acknowledge the circumstances that created the atmosphere in the marriage...

 

A WS , even happily married, almost always begins to focus on the faults of the marriage (real and imagined) basically to justify or ease the guilt of the affair. So, it's understandable to have the math reflect most WS' say the marriage was unhappy and have the BS be surprised by this.

[screwedovertwenty]

 

Truth

 

I think that is what bothers me. I remember the "faking orgasm" scene in When Harry met Sally where Harry was saying no one had ever faked with him and Sally rolled her eyes. He asked her why, and she said:

 

It's just that most women at one time or the other have faked it and all men say it's never happened with them so you do the math.

 

Do the math. There are a lot of WS's saying they were miserable when they cheated (not that that is EVER an excuse), and yet almost every BS I read about swears up and down it was a great marraige.

 

Do the math. Yeah, WS's can rewrite history. But not ALL of them are lying about being unhappy. So somebody somewhere is in denial.

 

Admitting it wasn't the perfect marriage is NOT the same thing as excusing cheating. My A was 100% on ME - MY choice.

 

But I can respect that my husband is honest enough to actually admit that our marriage had/has serious issues that he shares a part in.

 

I am a BS and I completely admit that our marriage sucked for a long time. I actually thought it sucked way longer than my husband did. He neglected me emotionally for years. Eventually it wore on me and I began neglecting him sexually. He see's now what happened and even remembers the many times I tried to talk to him about how he was making me feel. He takes full responsibility for what he did and has been working hard to prove to me that he is the man that I want to be with.

[screwedovertwenty]

Truth

 

I think that is what bothers me. I remember the "faking orgasm" scene in When Harry met Sally where Harry was saying no one had ever faked with him and Sally rolled her eyes. He asked her why, and she said:

 

It's just that most women at one time or the other have faked it and all men say it's never happened with them so you do the math.

 

Do the math. There are a lot of WS's saying they were miserable when they cheated (not that that is EVER an excuse), and yet almost every BS I read about swears up and down it was a great marraige.

 

Do the math. Yeah, WS's can rewrite history. But not ALL of them are lying about being unhappy. So somebody somewhere is in denial.

 

Admitting it wasn't the perfect marriage is NOT the same thing as excusing cheating. My A was 100% on ME - MY choice.

 

But I can respect that my husband is honest enough to actually admit that our marriage had/has serious issues that he shares a part in.

 

I am a BS and I completely admit that our marriage sucked for a long time. I actually thought it sucked way longer than my husband did. He neglected me emotionally for years. Eventually it wore on me and I began neglecting him sexually. He see's now what happened and even remembers the many times I tried to talk to him about how he was making me feel. He takes full responsibility for what he did and has been working hard to prove to me that he is the man that I want to be with.

[screwedovertwenty]

I guess I really messed up with the quotes! Sorry! Mine is the last paragraph only on those two posts!