Betterthanthis13 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Good question! In my opinion, I do not think majority of As are because the MP met their true love in their AP. I don't know. I think many WS's (this is all gross speculation) BELIEVE they have met someone they could fall in love with. I don't think most A's start because of sex. Big problem- they still love the BS. Yes there are cake eaters, abusive BS's, people married to the wrong person, and sociopaths. Those are all outliers, exceptions, the tail ends of the bell curve. I think most WS fall for their AP. And love their BS. I think that is what the majority of A's are made of. Confusion. Ive only had experience with an outlier (exception), so I am only speculating. Edited July 23, 2013 by Betterthanthis13 1
MissBee Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) So when a man or woman is single they have to kiss a lot of Frogs to find the right one. But of course in an affair MAGIC happens. as soon as they are unavailable and married, the first person they meet when they are attached is their soulmate. What is the likelyhood of that? It is the situation of an affair that creates drama,longing,fantasy that helps to create that soulmate feeling. Like 2 teenagers who are forbidden to see each other. Happy, not meaning to be disrespectful, but you are still living in fantasyland with your MM. You have 4 children. That right there will make it a difficult adjustment. He has 1 grown child. Now he has to go raising more and we never know how the whole dynamics of this new life will be handled. Reality may not be what you or he imagined,nor you. Living day to day with children who are not his will cut on the romance drastically. You can say all you want about your "successful" relationship now. But till this man is living in a home with you and your 4 children and all is going well, we cannot call this a "success"! I always wondered about this and how it makes no sense... When you're single, you usually date around a lot before you meet "the one" or get married, so how come people in affairs always meet their soulmate when they get into the affair....that makes no sense. An affair partner is akin to any other person you can and have developed feelings for in life...i.e. it is probably not gonna be your soulmate, love of your life, "meant to be" etc. but will probably die out like anything else...but the dynamic can sure make it feel that way and make it take less time to die out, and create more wonderful fantasies of a future of wonderfulness since there is no open, honest go off it, so it can stretch on and be rekindled forever. Edited July 23, 2013 by MissBee 3
jlola Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I don't know. I think many WS's (this is all gross speculation) BELIEVE they have met someone they could fall in love with. I don't think most A's start because of sex. It's interesting to hear some WS say the AP could have been anyone. Most MM/MW have to find someone who is willing to have an affair which sometimes is not that easy. So I cannot see that a person simply being "available" to be your partner in crime happens t be your soulmate."e just fell in love" becomes the excuse. Most people having affairs are searching for that "honeymoon period" all over again. They like the high of that stage. Like two thieves, they bond through the deception. They both know what they are doing is wrong and that brings them closer together. As for AP's who do not think what they are doing is wrong, why not tell your family,friends, the WS and whoever else. That is what you do in normal relationships. Share knowledge of your partner with the people you care about. But everyone knows society vies lying and cheating as wrong. So two people keeping a secret create a bond. Ultimately,once the secret is found out that bond usually does not last long and they may eventually turn on each other. Which is exactly why the secret is kept for as long as can be. Otherwise, OW would call BS and tell her what is going on. But second OW calls the wife, the man who swore to love her usually throws her under the bus. The soulmates are not really soulmates after all.
MissBee Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I also agree with jlola, SoHappy, I think it's good to have confidence in your relationship, as who else will if you don't? But you all have lots of work ahead and it cannot be written quite as a success just yet, until you all have set up together in a normal, routine, non-LDR situation...as naturally, it is a lot easier and more romantic in an LDR than it will be for MM to create a new family with you and your children....and you have yet to see the reality of what that looks like. You can only imagine and so can we...but until you all set up to do it and have been doing it for at least 6 months, we don't know.
So happy together Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Oh totally. We aren't seeing a microcosm of society at large on LS- we are seeing people with bad problems, who are so isolated that they get to the point of reaching out to an online forum, who like to communicate through the written word. Skewed? Definitely. Fubar? Maybe, hehe. Thats how most people got here, right? thats how i did. I am just some chick with heinous problems that needed to vent, initially... Somehow that morphed into a raging curiosity and interest in all things infidelity. Most of what I'm posting about now is out of genuine interest in other people's point of view- I love to analyze things and come up with opinions, but I'm certainly no expert on anything except my own experiences. that's why I'm curious about your opinion I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn, because I am aware I have a tendency to think I'm right and that's that. I'm trying to achieve better for myself. I have no hidden agenda. I do like to debate though, I won't deny that. Not because I want to "win", but because I truly believe if you don't take an objective look at all sides, you are moving away from the truth instead of closer to it. Nobody learns anything from talking to people who agree with them all the time. No question. I am here for a different reason. Well... let me rephrase. I was here for a different reason. Originally (in the beginning of my R, I came here for support. I was chewed up and spit out. Now that I am more confident in my R, I am here for others. Sometimes, just sometimes, it does happen. The right thing happens. Better... I know that you're struggling. I know your story. Frankly it sucks. I think about you often and honestly, if you stay in your R, it is your decision, but I think you will suffer. The thing is, we can't help who we love, can we? So... I support you in whatever you need in this time of 'notsohappiness'. But I def. love your insight. How are things going with you anyway? You've not talked much about your boy lately. Do you think things will be okay? 1
findingnemo Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I think people give very simple answers to very complicated emotional and psychological issues which could never be fully outlined here, and that's fine because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But in actuality, infidelity sometimes (not always) goes like this: Marriage has weakness. One spouse is unhappy, but the other sees no problem. Unhappy spouse tries talking, getting help, finding support. Nobody wants to "get involved." Spouse says they'll work on it, but nothing changes. Time goes on. Loneliness ensues. Distance builds. Kids are young, happy, so disillusioned spouse keeps fighting the fight. Until a light of happiness shines: attention, interest, relief. And an A begins. Maybe the "happy" spouse should have cared about the feelings of the unhappy spouse. The A was the result of a long ignored problem. Would a D have been better? Really? According to whom? Most important question: would you rather someone cheat on you or divorce you to get your attention???? I know my husband's answer, and it's not divorce. Where I'm from, a woman would rather her H has an A than he wakes up one day, seemingly out of the blue, and says he wants a divorce. Apart from those married to criminals or certifiable spouses, divorce isn't something to take lightly. In fact there are plenty of things that a woman would prefer a cheating man over. Personally I have a bit of a different view compared to most people on LS. I know that people aren't perfect. I know that life will throw me some curve balls. Having got some already, I had to choose between a cheating man and a violent man. Unfortunately the two characteristics were in the same man. I find cheating is easy to deal with compared to domestic violence. Even now I have no expectations of a "perfect" man. I just know that I'd rather a cheater than a beater. I'd rather a cheater than a criminal. I'd rather a cheater than a sexual predator/pedophile. In my part of the world, cheating is seen as a lightweight reason to divorce. Ending your M because you are in love with a OW is considered possibly the most stupid thing ever. You are not leaving a woman, your W...you are leaving a whole world in which many people are comfortable and rely on you playing your part. So whether you feel in love or not is irrelevant.
So happy together Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Where I'm from, a woman would rather her H has an A than he wakes up one day, seemingly out of the blue, and says he wants a divorce. Apart from those married to criminals or certifiable spouses, divorce isn't something to take lightly. In fact there are plenty of things that a woman would prefer a cheating man over. Personally I have a bit of a different view compared to most people on LS. I know that people aren't perfect. I know that life will throw me some curve balls. Having got some already, I had to choose between a cheating man and a violent man. Unfortunately the two characteristics were in the same man. I find cheating is easy to deal with compared to domestic violence. Even now I have no expectations of a "perfect" man. I just know that I'd rather a cheater than a beater. I'd rather a cheater than a criminal. I'd rather a cheater than a sexual predator/pedophile. In my part of the world, cheating is seen as a lightweight reason to divorce. Ending your M because you are in love with a OW is considered possibly the most stupid thing ever. You are not leaving a woman, your W...you are leaving a whole world in which many people are comfortable and rely on you playing your part. So whether you feel in love or not is irrelevant. Oh love. I feel for your MM. How horrible to stay in a bad R simply because you worry you are not 'playing your part'. My MM did the opposite. Lot's of people relied on him, and he was honest in what was happening. He was turned away from religion, etc. So sad. 1
findingnemo Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Why do you think that? Do you really think that in most affairs, the MP meets their one, true love in their AP? We should not use the words "most". It clouds the issue. Personally I find statistics helpful only when I'm discussing general topics like the world trends on infidelity, population growth, etc. And they only make sense if the other party understands its is just numbers. Most people have opinions based on what's going on in their lives. I think So Happy Together sees the possibility of MPs falling in true love with their APs more easily because that is her reality. I see it too because it was mine regardless of the fact that we can't ever be together. Psychologists have a term for it. I forgot. It's like when I fell in love with the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. I was so excited, it seemed so unique. All of a sudden I started noticing more and more of them on the road. I just didn't see them before because they weren't on my radar. Now they are. Crap, I forgot what it's called.
waterwoman Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Nope. that wouldn't be a spouse, that would be a robot programmed to please. Not a real human being. I have no problem with admitting I wasn't perfect but here's the rub..... neither was he!! Who'd have thought it??? I honestly tried to be the best wife I could in the circumstances. Not perfect no, wouldn't want to be, but certainly good enough. Was he a perfect spouse? No, not by a long way. He cheated. I didn't. Please please please stop blaming the victims... and yes, I did feel like a victim for a very long time, hurt and angry and also...guilty and inadequate because I beleived all the cr*p you spouted, no man with a good wife has an affair. H isn't a sh*t either, not really. He is just weak-willed and in need of an ego-stroke because his depressed and near suicidal wife couldn't provide that, after 19 years of marriage where she had done her best. It isn't a question of poor neglected spouses or total selfish sh*ts. That is far too simplistic. There's a whole range in between. Why would you come here and say 'oh well, sorry you're hurt but it's your own fault because you are clearly failing as a spouse'? Just why? Do you think it's helpful, do you honestly think most BS haven't thought of it again and again, wondered where we went wrong, beaten ourselves up for our uselessness? I am very very good at admitting my faults, it's one of my greatest skills, I am more than happy to beleive I am cr*p at everything . It has taken me a year to assess things, own up to my genuine faults, seen his more clearly, tried to understand his POV and STILL come to the conclusion that there was no excuse for his actions, none. Edited July 23, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 8
cocorico Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Most of the OW on here have said or probably thought that MM would be cheating with or without her. "if it were not me, he would be cheating with someone else" . To get what he needs emotionally or physically or Because the marriage was all but over. If he would be cheating with someone else anyway....it means true love has nothing to do with it. Available, that's the main attraction. That's pretty sad. I know my fMM would not have been "cheating" without me. It never crossed his mind, despite being so unhappy. He had made his bed and was lying in it. Other women hat hit on him throughout their M - some innocently enough, because it was impossible to tell that they were a couple - bit he was not interested. Even a really hot friend of ours had made a move, and he'd turned her down. 1
Got it Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I still stand by what I say. No BS deserves to be cheated on. They can be as perfect as can be, but if the WS wants to cheat, they will... and it does/has happened. The BS may not be so wonderful, but they still don't deserve to be cheated on. They deserve to have their SO tell them what's up and attempt to fix it or divorce, not have their life/heart destroyed. I find it quite sad and telling that you think they deserve to be cheated on. I hope you can remain perfect and never slip up or else your man will cheat on you, who knows, he may have already, considering you aren't even there in person to fulfill all of his needs, if we're going by your viewpoint. No, no one deserves to be cheated on. While some relationships are more rife with issues so one can see the steps that would have allowed someone to walk down that path, no one does deserve for it. Just like no one deserves financial infidelity, physical/emotional alienation, physical, emotional, verbal abuse, etc. 2
Robert Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Let's leave the personal attacks, slighted or not at the door. I have been kind with my deletions and or warnings to this point but that will change if the tone of all the posters, OW or BS alike doesn't change. Thanks 1
sweet_pea Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 No, no one deserves to be cheated on. While some relationships are more rife with issues so one can see the steps that would have allowed someone to walk down that path, no one does deserve for it. Just like no one deserves financial infidelity, physical/emotional alienation, physical, emotional, verbal abuse, etc. If you read her earlier reply, that's what she pretty much eluded to. That you must be the perfect spouse or you deserve to be cheated on. And that is where my response came from. 1
So happy together Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 So true. The posters on LS are not the only people in the world who are in misery due to an affair. There are lots of infidelity forums and affair forums and there are unhappy people in pain on all of them. As you say, the OW forums that are private or where BS's are not allowed to participate tend to illicit more honesty from their members and they reveal even more misery and agony then we see here on LS. Some people do not participate in forums at all, they would never consider going to an online support site to post about their pain. Perhaps they take their pain to a real life therapist or they lean on their friends and family for support. Perhaps they are naturally stoic, private,handle their own stuff, kind of people and don't seek support at all but they are in pain nonetheless. In my real life I know of only one married couple who started their relationship as an affair and their marriage is often strained due to problems with the kids of the prior marriage and the ex wife and worst of all, a strong lack of faith and trust in each other because of the long drawn out affair. I don't know where one goes to find all of these happy OW in affairs or in happy marriages that started off as an affair. I'm sure it happens too but it's not usual. Sohappy can you give me a hint as to where you live, where this is so common and normal? Are you in North America? No. Why would I do that? Life is the same everywhere. Do you have an ulterior motive for wanting to know?
janedoe67 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I believe quality relationships start with honesty, not dishonesty This is such a good point. The foundation of a relationship is one of the best predictors of its success. 5
MissBee Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Where I'm from, a woman would rather her H has an A than he wakes up one day, seemingly out of the blue, and says he wants a divorce. Apart from those married to criminals or certifiable spouses, divorce isn't something to take lightly. In fact there are plenty of things that a woman would prefer a cheating man over. Personally I have a bit of a different view compared to most people on LS. I know that people aren't perfect. I know that life will throw me some curve balls. Having got some already, I had to choose between a cheating man and a violent man. Unfortunately the two characteristics were in the same man. I find cheating is easy to deal with compared to domestic violence. Even now I have no expectations of a "perfect" man. I just know that I'd rather a cheater than a beater. I'd rather a cheater than a criminal. I'd rather a cheater than a sexual predator/pedophile. In my part of the world, cheating is seen as a lightweight reason to divorce. Ending your M because you are in love with a OW is considered possibly the most stupid thing ever. You are not leaving a woman, your W...you are leaving a whole world in which many people are comfortable and rely on you playing your part. So whether you feel in love or not is irrelevant. In my own culture, cheating (but only on the part of men of course ) is seen as some natural thing, and most women have been taught to accept this as a reality, so long as they are #1, i.e. his wife. There are whole anthropological and sociological studies of all that plays into this. So many women, while they don't like the cheating, the code is: keep the OW in her place and out of my face and make sure I'm not being outright disrespected or prioritized under the OW. The OW is inherently a lesser position and it's understood that it's a disposable position. Men do not have affairs or keep multiple women because of falling in or out of love, but because monogamy on a man's part is seen as optional, essentially. His wife is the woman he fell in love with, wants kids with, trusts, wants to be publicly tied to, meets his family etc and is seen as an important investment, esp since culturally, many don't marry, so those who do, it's because they REALLY want to, then the any number of OW are to satisfy his appetite for new women and his "natural" inclination to be attracted to others, which they separate from their commitment to their marriage. Hence, for my dad, as much as he cheats, none of it is about love, and he stays married, even when my mom wanted a divorce, because in a sick way, he chose his wife to be his wife above all others, and the OW come and go and are about excess and extra and not instead of or because of being inlove. In my culture more people never get married at all, but have common law relationships than those who legally wed. yet, even in the common law situations, men still cheat, and it's still a dynamic of choosing one woman as your primary partner....then having satellite women or another woman on the outside of your arrangement. Sometimes the other becomes primary but not very often, and even if she does, in their new relationship, he still may have OW...and their rationale is, their wife/primary woman shouldn't be upset because it doesn't change their feelings for her, she should feel special as the wife, and understand that they will from time to time indulge in lesser side relationships. Edited July 23, 2013 by MissBee 4
MissBee Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 No. Why would I do that? Life is the same everywhere. Do you have an ulterior motive for wanting to know? Are you serious about this SoHappy? Having not been born in America but emigrating, and traveling a lot, life is not the same everywhere. Humans on a psychological level are more or less the same, but life itself, cultural and sociological norms and how this plays on people's psychologies and choices, morals, values and inclinations are absolutely not universal. 10
2sure Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 That's pretty sad. I know my fMM would not have been "cheating" without me. It never crossed his mind, despite being so unhappy. He had made his bed and was lying in it. Other women hat hit on him throughout their M - some innocently enough, because it was impossible to tell that they were a couple - bit he was not interested. Even a really hot friend of ours had made a move, and he'd turned her down. I agree , it is sad. For OW that doesn't care one way or the other it's fine. But I've so many times heard and read "if he wasn't cheating with me, he would be cheating with someone else". And I get why, they need the justification . And as far as justification goes, it works as well as another. But they need to closely at that justification and question it before they invest themselves emotionally with MM. 2
krazikat Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Good question! In my opinion, I do not think majority of As are because the MP met their true love in their AP. Agreed. If that was the case, then more AP's would end up with the ws. It is widely recognized that the majority of WS try to stay the bs. Even in the marriages that end in divorce due to an A end because the bs ends it. There will always be exceptions in any scenario, but few A's actually end up transitioning into an open relationship. However, this is a hard reality for those caught up in the affair...the AP doesnt want to face that the mp may actually love their spouse...so of course the mp is "stuck" in their marriage for whatever excuse is given. Of course the ws doesnt love their bs, they are in love with the AP but cant leave the marriage because of the kids, house, money, dog, record collection, blah blaah blaaah. Of course, ws may be the one who paints this picture, convinces AP that they love them but just cant leave the M because of x, y, z. Edited July 24, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 2
seren Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 If H and I had divorced after his A, I would, after the dust had settled, wished that the new relationship lasted and was happy. Otherwise I would feel that all the deceit, hurt, pain and loss I would feel, would be for nothing. I get that marriages break down, I don't accept that an A is the way to end one or to begin another. There are more adult, kinder ways to end a marriage and the belittling of a BS is one of the things I find hard to hear or read, how can someone who has no idea they are being betrayed be anything other than the person they and the WS know. If a WS is saying they are happy to the BS and there is intimacy or future making, then the BS will think the WS is happy with them as they are. Reconciling is damned hard work, it takes a lot of introspection from the WS and a lot of examining from both. I think for a future for the AP and WS to work, then they would need to work on how both felt it acceptable to know they were hurting another or if a family, that family. I don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater, but I do think that if a person deals with an unhappy relationship by not talking about it and ending it, then there is the potential for this conflict avoidance behaviour for the next relationship. 4
William Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I noted some off-topic and inflammatory content in my early morning review so will queue this for processing later today. Thanks. Update: With Robert's assistance, processing complete and thread is re-opened to topical comments consistent with our community guidelines. Edited July 24, 2013 by William Re-opened thread.
ladydesigner Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 This a great point. Loads of people have depression issues. There are men (and women) that have everything they could ever want and are still "unhappy". An affair, exit affair or emotional affair makes them feel "happy" for awhile. Yet, the real issue isn't dealt with so.....after awhile the AP partner can't make them happy either. This is what I've seen - too many times:( In the mean time the BS gets devastated, the OW/OM gets thrown to the curb (in most cases) and the WS is still miserable. SO...............just because a WS says they are miserable you have to ask yourself is it because of the marriage, the spouse, or is it because the WS is a miserable person? Did the OP just drop a bomb here and leave? Why do AP's do that? You want the BS to believe it's their fault that the WS cheated? Because we, the BS was incapable of keeping them happy?? HA HA HA AH AH HA HA!! I needed that good laugh:laugh: Ha ha ha you must be talking about my WS What is bolded would describe exactly how events went in our case. I was happy as a pig in sh*t pre-A, my WH was miserable. He always had mood issues and now post-A I can see throughout our M that he needed constant validation, it was exhausting. But his A went exactly as the above he told her we were miserable (I wasn't and didn't think he was either), that he was constantly denied sex (not true we averaged 2x a week), and the best was that I neglected him. He worked 7 days a week at the time of his A and maybe spent a total of 5 hours with me and the kids. So in the end his A left me devastated (still am), the MOW got thrown to the curb (but she thinks he is staying with me because I might try to commit suicide again ) and WS, well his life now is making up for the crap life he has given me all these years and I have a very low tolerance for BS (not blind spouse) nowadays. I wouldn't say his life is ecstatic at the moment. 1
ladydesigner Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 No, I do not believe one only cheats when they find their soulmate. Most who cheat are damaged and when you are damaged, I can not imagine finding your soulmate. I believe quality relationships start with honesty, not dishonesty. I believe that is why we are able to reconcile, because although my husband lost his way and became this terrible person, our relationship was built on the best, not worst part of ourselves. It's salvageable. This is such a great post. I too believe most who cheat are damaged. They are ususally either personality disordered, addicts or have bad coping skills. It is nice knowing that my M was built on the best and not the worst of ourselves. At least we have that. 3
cocorico Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 This is such a great post. I too believe most who cheat are damaged. Sometimes that damage is caused by the M. 1
So happy together Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Sometimes that damage is caused by the M. Thank you!
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