Serendipity?

[Love...a miracle]

Hi everyone,

 

Firstly, I have been impressed by the support and care shown on these forums by people who have no link to each other apart from their respective heart breaks. Secondly, the frank and sincere advice and insights are really refreshing. Good to be honest with ourselves.

 

I had been dating a wonderful girl for just over 2.5 years. We met at university and she was from a neighbouring country. So, holidays were always apart. Then, I moved to another city to begin my working life. Long distance became even more real from then on, with us seeing each other every 2/3 months. From the get go nobody gave us a chance, but we somehow created a flourishing relationship and were cute and deeply in love.

 

Unfortunately, by my very nature I am a very planned and structured person. I have also always been a top student and held my career progression in very high regard. She is quite different: spontaneous, disorganised and lives for the moment. Funnily though, our different worldviews drew us together and we learned very much from each other.

 

I am a strong believer in the law of attraction, and I recall now that from very early on in my relationship I was concerned that she lacked ambition, was disorganised (her room was always a mess) and was not reflective enough. I did love her unconditionally, but I did what I typically do with most things in my life: I over-analysed. This ended up in me taking her for granted quite often. I also tried to impose some of my worldviews on her. Whether good or bad, the universe gives you the outcome of the energy that you send out. And, eventually it brought our break up.

 

The break up came two months ago when I visited her at university. We went for a walk and out of the blue we started to discuss what we would do in 2014. She always wanted to go overseas but I always hoped we would somehow be in the same place. We always lived with a sword above our heads through long distance, not knowing how it would lead to us being in a settled space. We were committed to marrying one day and it was a given that we would be together. I am convinced that many of my doubts were driven by long distance because when we were in the same physical place we flourished and were such a loving couple.

 

This break up was bizarre, folks. We broke up, agreeing that it had to be done because of the geographical uncertainty of next year. Both of us crying and emotional. Only to continue our walk and be laughing and hugging a few minutes later. We spent the rest of the week cuddling, going on dates, being cute as ever, watching movies, having fun! We bought each other thank you gifts and prayed to God together. It was something incredible. I returned to my working city and was fine for the first two weeks, convincing myself mentally that this was the logical route (planning as always!). Then an upheaval happened after my dad admonished me for always 'being so grateful that it ended well' instead of being sincere with my emotions and letting it out. I broke into deep sadness at the realisation that I was pretending to be alright with what happened. I said to myself: if you really love this girl, how could you not fight for next year? Even if the practicalities of geographical separation were far from clear?

 

I then did the most spontaneous thing of my life, I took a flight to her far-away university town, completely unannounced. Nobody knew that I was on that plane. It felt so right and I did this with an incredible conviction in my blood. I was going to get her back.

 

I arrived at her door with a bouquet of flowers on a full moon Friday night. She was overwhelmed and that night I thought I had her back. We cuddled, were cute and very loving. Next morning, sadly, she came back from lectures and we had 'the talk'. She said she is not in an emotional state to continue in this relationship. I was crushed. I knew for some time that she had major upheavals in her life in 2013, and I know she was sincere. We cried together for two full days. As with the 'first break up' we went on dates, read, laughed, cuddled and watched movies. Bizarre version 2.0. She kept on saying that she hopes that Serendipity happens and that our stars align again for us to be together, at the same time saying to me that I must not wait for her and that 'this is happening'. I did not beg or plead with her. I accepted her feelings. However, I was crushed and did all I could do in that setting, cried profusely. In our last afternoon together we got incredibly emotional and I squeezed her so hard in the last hug that she made a wheezy sound from deep in her chest haha! And that was that! Not the outcome I had hoped for, but I left with a real sense of closure in that I had been sincere to myself and had apologised to her for how I had treated her at times. I wanted her to never forget that I cherished and loved her.

 

After my 'second break up' I got a big wake up call. I realised that I need to improve in many areas, notably being more generous to others, not taking people for granted, loving unconditionally and being more easy going.

 

I know that I deeply love this girl. I was not down because of the thought of her with someone else or because I am lonely and insecure. I was crushed because I had a terrible feeling in my gut that I may have lost my dream girl. I know I can find someone else who is amazing but she is the one I want.

 

I know not to put her on a pedestal and keep blaming myself for how I mistreated her at times, because I mostly treated her with great care and affection. She had a number of flaws too, and often dampened my enthusiasm with some of her inflexible views on aspects of her life. However, it kills me to think that all my self-discovery and realisations about her had to come as a result of losing her. I wish I had taken action earlier.

 

Back in my working city, I was deeply unsettled emotionally at the beginning but I have now become very proactive: gymming, socialising, making new friends, going to shows, and spending family time. I am not sitting here in misery waiting for her to come back. I respect myself and love myself and she is missing out!

 

Have done a month of no contact already, and this has helped tremendously. I can only have one role with her: that of her lover. I cannot be her friend.

 

One of my biggest questions is: how great/or not great would our relationship have been if life just gave us a chance to be in one place for an indefinite period of time? I long to have her back but I want her to be happy and if that means being away from me then I accept that. Deep down, my gut is shouting 'Serendipity' and that we will make our way to one another again.

 

I look forward to your insights. Thanks for hearing me out.

[thompkevin]

You are wondering into the land of "what ifs". There is no point in thinking what could've been. It's over. And even if it does work out again, it will happen on it's own and you thinking about it won't help it.

[LovelyScars]

Oh that post was bittersweet, I could somehow see such events vividly in my mind.

Truthfully, If you are meant to be it will just happen.

I ended a LDR seven months ago with a man I loved dearly, he also went with he couldn't be friends with me unless I was his. It makes me giggle thinking of it..Fond memories almost as if standing near a fire and drinking hot cocoa under the moon.

Maybe if you both were in the same place it would've been better but everything happens for a reason. I believe you should be happy to have such an experience, no regrets. After all you've learned to make yourself an even better person due to the generous personality of a loved one, right?

We are under the same moon, yet why are you so far? In reality this world is so small. I am sure in time you'll find each other again..The question is will you still want her afterwards? Or will you have a new love?

Good luck.

[Love...a miracle]

Oh that post was bittersweet, I could somehow see such events vividly in my mind.

Truthfully, If you are meant to be it will just happen.

I ended a LDR seven months ago with a man I loved dearly, he also went with he couldn't be friends with me unless I was his. It makes me giggle thinking of it..Fond memories almost as if standing near a fire and drinking hot cocoa under the moon.

Maybe if you both were in the same place it would've been better but everything happens for a reason. I believe you should be happy to have such an experience, no regrets. After all you've learned to make yourself an even better person due to the generous personality of a loved one, right?

We are under the same moon, yet why are you so far? In reality this world is so small. I am sure in time you'll find each other again..The question is will you still want her afterwards? Or will you have a new love?

Good luck.

 

Thanks for your response Bittersweet is such fitting description of what has happened. I agree, no regrets. In fact, I have NO resentment at all for what she did to me. I have a sense of loss, but it is not coupled with anger or jealousy. I will forever speak fondly of her because she was unendingly loyal to me and lifted me up. We hardly fought and even the end was surreal. I am happy to have experienced such love to begin with, despite the present pain. We should never let ourselves be cynical about love because things like this happen. In terms of my self-development, this event has marked me in a big way. My eyes have been opened to many aspects of my life where I have begun working on!

 

Your final questions are tough ones indeed. Thankfully, I have done my bit and been truthful about how I felt. She knows from the 'second break up' about my sentiments regarding starting fresh. So, NC is the way for me and if there is to be a next chapter, it is she who will initiate. In the meantime, healing and progress for me!

 

Thankfully, I love myself enough to put the responsibility for happiness on my shoulders!

[Love...a miracle]

You are wondering into the land of "what ifs". There is no point in thinking what could've been. It's over. And even if it does work out again, it will happen on it's own and you thinking about it won't help it.

 

Thanks for your post. Yes, thinking only in the past is very counter-productive. Luckily, I have solid family, friends and work to keep me pre-occupied and looking ahead. As they say, what's meant to be will be! In the mean-time, doing things I enjoy and living more for the moment. Need to get past over-analysing, because I do it for almost everything in my life.

[LinkWorshiper]

Your post was interesting for me to read for a few reasons. One, because you realizing that you needed to work on some stuff about yourself sounds exactly like what my ex is handling for himself right now, and two, so does what she said in response to your incredibly adorable effort to win her back!

 

If it was me, I'd have taken you back, but maybe I watch too many movies. At the same time, if she's not in a place to be with you, it's for the best. Things would have just fallen apart if she wasn't ready and you'd be even more broken-hearted. At least now you know that if you guys do tumble into something again, you guys will have both had time to make yourselves into way better people for a way better relationship. I think my point is that sometimes (even in movies!) there is a time where you have to be apart. Obviously you both made a huge impact on one another's lives, and that doesn't just go away. For all you know, one day she'll be flying to the North Pole or wherever to win YOU back. Because if it was that meaningful, she will when the time is right. I super believe this.

[Love...a miracle]

Your post was interesting for me to read for a few reasons. One, because you realizing that you needed to work on some stuff about yourself sounds exactly like what my ex is handling for himself right now, and two, so does what she said in response to your incredibly adorable effort to win her back!

 

If it was me, I'd have taken you back, but maybe I watch too many movies. At the same time, if she's not in a place to be with you, it's for the best. Things would have just fallen apart if she wasn't ready and you'd be even more broken-hearted. At least now you know that if you guys do tumble into something again, you guys will have both had time to make yourselves into way better people for a way better relationship. I think my point is that sometimes (even in movies!) there is a time where you have to be apart. Obviously you both made a huge impact on one another's lives, and that doesn't just go away. For all you know, one day she'll be flying to the North Pole or wherever to win YOU back. Because if it was that meaningful, she will when the time is right. I super believe this.

 

Hi LinkWorshiper,

 

Thanks for your very thoughtful post. You revealed some wonderful insights to me.

 

Firstly, I am secretly punching the air knowing that there is a girl in the world (you) who genuinely believes that my epic mission had a prospect of success HAHA!!!

 

Secondly, your views make me realise is that the time apart to mature, improve and love ourselves is necessary if this is ever to have a chance again. Because the way I see it, the only way it can be is if a NEW relationship is born. The old one died for a reason, and only a relationship on new terms will prosper. And for those new conditions to exist, both former lovers need time to love and respect themselves anew. Your final comment is one incredible thought, that one day the initiator of a separation might fight for the one who she willingly left! But I suppose that illustrates the unforeseeability (and majesty) of love.

 

I have a simple way of looking at the hope of a second chance: imagine your ex walking into your house and seeing you in a desperate state. Would she be attracted to you like back then? If no, then you need to find your groove again. Respect yourself! She would not want to know that you are scheming, planning, praying and crying for her to come back. She would want to know you are gymming, making friends, doing well at work. Ironically, she would want to know that you have MOVED ON.

 

What are your views on fighting the urge to blame yourself for taking someone for granted in the past? How does one apply such insights and turn them into something positive?

[LinkWorshiper]

Thanks for your very thoughtful post. You revealed some wonderful insights to me.

 

Glad to be of service. I realize that sometimes my thoughts go against the common advice on this board, but while there is validity to what many people here do have to say, what has helped me the most is approaching things in a more positive fashion, especially when it comes to the prospect of reconciliation. At least, that's how I feel. Especially because I do have a tendency to be a little pessimistic myself, so pessimistic advice doesn't really help me feel much more empowered.

 

Firstly, I am secretly punching the air knowing that there is a girl in the world (you) who genuinely believes that my epic mission had a prospect of success HAHA!!!

 

Listen, I recently went through a little bit of a thing with my ex that was lifted right out of a movie script myself. It's not quite like your situation, but it might help you feel better that these kinds of things do have potential to shake out okay. I really do think that it is egotistical, even as the dumpee, to sit around telling yourself that if the other person really loved you, they'd be the ones climbing mountains to be with you, or they'd have never dumped you in the first place. I don't think people are that simple, and it's foolish to think that reconciliation could happen if you don't meet the other person halfway, no matter who did what to put you into your current situation, which is why I like that you put yourself out there the way you did. I think only with honesty, forgiveness and love can you really have any shot at success, but that's just me. Maybe I listen to too many Beatles songs, I don't know.

 

Anyway, long story short, I'd been trying hard to be bros with my ex because despite everything that had happened since he had a meltdown and dumped me (and subsequently, I had a serious mental breakdown that landed me in the hospital), we were both still important to one another. He knew I wanted to fix things, and I knew there was something bothering him, so I just sort of allowed myself to ride the emotional rollercoaster until it got to a point where his emotional push/pull was just too much for me. I had to tell him that it might be a good idea for us to not see each other for a little bit, which I didn't want to do, but I felt like I had to protect myself at that point. His inability to decide what he wanted or deal with whatever demons he was trying to face was having a direct effect on me.

 

Almost three weeks of NC later, I had lunch with his roommate, who is a mutual friend of ours. He brought a bag of things from their apartment to return to me, and we talked a little bit about my ex and where he was at. I think the roommate was trying to offer me closure as best he could, though he had been trying to stay as much out of it as possible and could really offer insight as far as he knew. Anyway, I left feeling like that was pretty much it and I wasn't going to get much more than that. Until I got home and opened the bag of things and found this incredibly raw and emotional letter from my ex inside that basically detailed how he'd been ruining his life with alcohol and weed in an effort to ignore his own complications, and it had made him a horrible partner that was unable to really understand the complications of anyone else. He then went on to say that he was trying to make many positive changes for himself, that he was spending a lot of time alone in pursuit of the person he had been ignoring for so long (himself), that he was now more empathetic to my distance from many people and things, and that he'd never felt so emotionally awful in his life, but he's realized that there is a bubble around everyone that can be stripped away with honesty, compassion and love. It is then that he says that he was completely unhappy being casual acquaintances with me and realizes that I wasn't either, but we had to be strong to get through this. He comments that he doesn't want me to wait around or grow for him because no one should be a factor in another's growth (not that I was but...), and that he hoped in the future, when he's finally become a person he admires, that I would forgive him.

 

So I did what any normal person would do. I wrote out a reply that told him he wasn't alone, even if he felt that way, though I recognized his need to grow for himself. I also told him that I recognized the emotional place he was navigating, because frankly, been there, done that. Intimately. Obvious. And also that I already forgave him, because I couldn't be angry with him for being human -- that was ridiculous. Then I wrapped it around my trusty copy of The Catcher in the Rye, wrapped that into a parcel, put his name on it and sneaked into his office at work to leave it on his computer. It's only been a week since I did this, but I am confident that being honest with him in the way he was honest with me was the only way to react to the situation. And this is after person after person on this site advised against doing so. Didn't care: I realized I knew what to do the whole time, and I think that's the main thing to understand about these things.... All the advice in the world doesn't do much until you actually make a move yourself.

 

Secondly, your views make me realise is that the time apart to mature, improve and love ourselves is necessary if this is ever to have a chance again. Because the way I see it, the only way it can be is if a NEW relationship is born. The old one died for a reason, and only a relationship on new terms will prosper. And for those new conditions to exist, both former lovers need time to love and respect themselves anew. Your final comment is one incredible thought, that one day the initiator of a separation might fight for the one who she willingly left! But I suppose that illustrates the unforeseeability (and majesty) of love.

 

Exactly. I think my story above pretty much summarizes why I'm really solid in that belief. Even if you want her back, you don't want exactly what you had: you want something new. If she's saying to you that she can't be with you, it could be something like what my ex is dealing with. Maybe she didn't feel comfortable sharing, but she might have a very real reason that has nothing to do with you as to why she can't be with you right now. But if she overcomes it and she still really wants to make it work, like I said, she'll be sure you know somehow. I think in the meantime, dating yourself will help you prepare if that happens. Maybe send her a little poke once in a while to let her know you are just outside her orbit, but also respect and love her enough to let her have what she needs as long as she needs to.

 

What are your views on fighting the urge to blame yourself for taking someone for granted in the past? How does one apply such insights and turn them into something positive?

 

Again, I think the story about what my ex is going through kind of answers this. He has obviously been beating himself up for being a terrible partner to not just me, but past girlfriends, and even just a terrible plain old friend and human in general. Frankly, I think it's funny that he has such self-loathing, because I look at him and see this awesome person and it's honestly hard for me to understand why he has such a hard time seeing it too. In my letter back to him, I told him that, and also that it wasn't a matter of waking up one day and thinking, 'Oh hey, all that bad stuff I hate about myself is gone and I'm a happy, shiny person now! Hurray!' Because that's ridiculous and will never happen. What I have personally learned just in general (not really in regards to romance) is that it's more about figuring out how to take these things about yourself and understand them. Think about your actions, figure out why whatever was happening was happening and go from there. A lot of times, it's not like you can cut it out of your personality entirely... like for instance, I have a very reactive personality, and I probably always will, but understanding that I do has helped me be a little less unhinged and more in control of said reactivity. It's about taking your experiences and learning from them, seeing how they've shaped you, and then refining from there, you know? And that's all I have to say about that

 

Do me a favor. Look up a song called 'Master of Art' by Laura Stevenson and the Cans. I think it will make you feel better

[Love...a miracle]

Glad to be of service. I realize that sometimes my thoughts go against the common advice on this board, but while there is validity to what many people here do have to say, what has helped me the most is approaching things in a more positive fashion, especially when it comes to the prospect of reconciliation. At least, that's how I feel. Especially because I do have a tendency to be a little pessimistic myself, so pessimistic advice doesn't really help me feel much more empowered.

 

I fully agree with you on that one. I find that quite a number of people tend to pass judgement and make you blame yourself for many things that were, quite simply, circumstantial. Furthermore, it is always so convenient to come to insights from the position of hindsight. When we are 'at the coalface' so to speak, it is not always that simple to reach the realisations that (post-breakup) seem obvious and logical. This topic 'second chances' should inherently have a big element of optimism, otherwise why would people waste their time posting here. I like how you use the word 'prospect', instead of 'hope'. To me, the former word is a more balanced one because it encourages me to work on myself rather than simply moping about at home and waiting for a miracle to happen. I am not 'waiting' around for her to come back. But having said that, if there was not some spark in me that believed it 'could' happen then I would not be contributing much to the theme of this topic.

 

I really do think that it is egotistical, even as the dumpee, to sit around telling yourself that if the other person really loved you, they'd be the ones climbing mountains to be with you, or they'd have never dumped you in the first place.

 

Something I am very grateful for is that I have NO resentment towards her for doing what she did. I will never speak badly of her or invent reasons to justify to me that 'whew thank goodness she left'. If anything, I find it was an incredibly mature and sincere thing, despite the agony it brought me! As you mentioned, we cannot be upset at somebody for being human; that would be living in denial. On that note, I really like how sincere you appear to be through your own breakup. You appear to have an excellent awareness of what happened, and why. Isn't that really the first step to even beginning to think about reconciliation or moving on? I gain much inspiration from how frank and sincere you are with yourself. You have clearly mastered thinking about your situation in a mindful way, not clouded by destructive emotions.

 

I had to tell him that it might be a good idea for us to not see each other for a little bit, which I didn't want to do, but I felt like I had to protect myself at that point. His inability to decide what he wanted or deal with whatever demons he was trying to face was having a direct effect on me.

 

What effect do you think that the time apart has on the love that you have for each other. Do you think that, in time, that love dies a slow death and reconciliation is impossible? Or do you think that the love is temporarily suspended in a compartment and can be freely given again in the future if circumstances are right? I suppose this is a fear that many people have with NC, namely that the space will simply let the emotions dwindle. I for one am a big fan of NC. Whether it leads to reconciliation, or whether it is a tool for self-healing and moving on, it is a powerful tool to recover self-respect and love yourself.

 

Didn't care: I realized I knew what to do the whole time, and I think that's the main thing to understand about these things.... All the advice in the world doesn't do much until you actually make a move yourself.

 

Great attitude. In the end, only we can know what is right for us. The advice from others helps us think more laterally about our situations. But it is up to us to take the action that we feel suits us.

 

Maybe she didn't feel comfortable sharing, but she might have a very real reason that has nothing to do with you as to why she can't be with you right now. But if she overcomes it and she still really wants to make it work, like I said, she'll be sure you know somehow.

 

This is a concept that it took me a while to get my head around: the famous "it's not you it's me" dilemma. From your own perspective and actions, do you feel that this can be a sincere statement of the need for time to grow, or do you think that dumpers use this phrase to conveniently make themselves feel better about their separation, and not upset the other person too much?

 

Frankly, I think it's funny that he has such self-loathing, because I look at him and see this awesome person and it's honestly hard for me to understand why he has such a hard time seeing it too.

 

Haha, this took me by surprise when I went on my mission to her. I apologised for a whole array of things that I had written down as a list for her. After every item I read out (e.g. being selfish, careless) she would slap my wrist and say 'NO!'. It was a really sweet thing when I look back now.

 

A lot of times, it's not like you can cut it out of your personality entirely... like for instance, I have a very reactive personality, and I probably always will, but understanding that I do has helped me be a little less unhinged and more in control of said reactivity. It's about taking your experiences and learning from them, seeing how they've shaped you, and then refining from there, you know? And that's all I have to say about that

 

What personality traits have you found hardest to adapt and improve?

 

Do me a favor. Look up a song called 'Master of Art' by Laura Stevenson and the Cans. I think it will make you feel better

 

After all your wonderful insights until now, I will be sure to listen to the song you suggest and let you know how it speaks to me

 

THANK YOU!

[jphcbpa]

"I realised that I need to improve in many areas, notably being more generous to others, not taking people for granted, loving unconditionally and being more easy going."

 

Beautiful!

[LinkWorshiper]

Well, the Quote Button is 100% useless, FYI. Haha.

 

I fully agree with you on that one. I find that quite a number of people tend to pass judgement and make you blame yourself for many things that were, quite simply, circumstantial. Furthermore, it is always so convenient to come to insights from the position of hindsight. When we are 'at the coalface' so to speak, it is not always that simple to reach the realisations that (post-breakup) seem obvious and logical. This topic 'second chances' should inherently have a big element of optimism, otherwise why would people waste their time posting here. I like how you use the word 'prospect', instead of 'hope'. To me, the former word is a more balanced one because it encourages me to work on myself rather than simply moping about at home and waiting for a miracle to happen. I am not 'waiting' around for her to come back. But having said that, if there was not some spark in me that believed it 'could' happen then I would not be contributing much to the theme of this topic.

 

After hanging around these kinds of boards for only about a month, I really did find that some of the advice was actually making my mental situation worse. I had just initiated the NC when I first joined this board, and I did so because I was freaking out that I had just pulled the plug on any potential for reconciliation. For the most part, the most people had to say was, 'Good job, move on,' which was hardly helpful or insightful. But I've wasted enough time on the internet on BBS of all kinds to know that it's important to take most everything you read online with a whole shaker of salt, since it's easy for someone to judge your situation from behind a computer on the other side of the planet without really understanding the nuances of what's involved. Not that the advice here is bad, because it's not, but you get what I mean, I think.

 

And yes, the word 'prospect', I like because it implies potential that really only happens if you put the right amount of effort in. Sometimes the effort doesn't get you much, but sometimes it's what pays off in the end. All hope is false if you think about it, really, because if it was real, then it wouldn't be hope at all, right? I mean, not that there isn't your fair share of rolling across the floor and bawling like a madman ("Check!"), or your moments of absolute despair where everything seems to have gone to $hit, but I think having emotions like that keep you grounded in reality. I'm much more wary of the person who skips around like, "Oh don't worry, we WILL get back together, you'll see, tralalalala!" than the person who's like, "I'm scared he won't figure it out even though I'm pretty sure he has the ability to."

 

Something I am very grateful for is that I have NO resentment towards her for doing what she did. I will never speak badly of her or invent reasons to justify to me that 'whew thank goodness she left'. If anything, I find it was an incredibly mature and sincere thing, despite the agony it brought me! As you mentioned, we cannot be upset at somebody for being human; that would be living in denial.

 

That should speak highly to you that she does have the potential to be a good partner for you if she can sort through her stuff. Who wants to be with a person who can't even be honest about where they are in life? Then you're just living/dating a lie. Not that it makes it any easier for you or me or anybody to handle not having things go just the way they want when they want it, but it has to speak of your character too that you can respect it.

 

On that note, I really like how sincere you appear to be through your own breakup. You appear to have an excellent awareness of what happened, and why. Isn't that really the first step to even beginning to think about reconciliation or moving on? I gain much inspiration from how frank and sincere you are with yourself. You have clearly mastered thinking about your situation in a mindful way, not clouded by destructive emotions.

 

Haha, thanks. You're giving me way too much credit, though I guess if anything, I have always been pretty good at speaking my mind, especially online (because it doesn't require my voice). I have spent A LOT OF TIME in the months since the break up thinking about what happened, talking about what happened, trying to understand what happened. Also, towards the beginning, right after everything happened, I had a serious business mental breakdown and ended up in the hospital for two weeks, which really gave me time to understand what I have to do in order to be a better-functioning person in general. Understanding how I'm wired has helped give me a lot of clarity about many situations I'd find myself in and unable to navigate because I didn't really understand what was going on in my head. And I won't lie to you, there are still many times I'll find myself thinking worrisome things, or rolling myself down "the hill of sharp glass" as I've come to call it, but at least I'm more aware of it, so I can catch myself and find someone to help talk me out of the downward spiral.

 

But that's just what I've been doing for myself. It doesn't hurt that the stuff my man is going through, honestly, is not a newsflash to me, despite the way he confessed all his feelings to me in that letter. Been there, done that, first of all, so a lot of it was stuff I could see long before anything even happened, but I just... I knew it wasn't my place to step in and be like, 'HEY I THINK YOU HAVE SOME PROBLEMS SO LET'S ADDRESS ALL THESE THINGS THAT HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN WITH YOU SINCE BEFORE I KNEW YOU.' Like how judgmental is that? When I was going through that ****, I got angry at anybody who tried to step in, which is why I tend to push people away in general. So I didn't, and he freaked out one night, I fell apart, and here we are. But even from day one, all I ever wanted to do was talk to him and help him deal with these things that he didn't even know he had to deal with yet. There is a reason I gave him The Catcher in the Rye, I'll tell you that.

 

Whew, that was wordy! Sorry!

 

What effect do you think that the time apart has on the love that you have for each other. Do you think that, in time, that love dies a slow death and reconciliation is impossible? Or do you think that the love is temporarily suspended in a compartment and can be freely given again in the future if circumstances are right? I suppose this is a fear that many people have with NC, namely that the space will simply let the emotions dwindle. I for one am a big fan of NC. Whether it leads to reconciliation, or whether it is a tool for self-healing and moving on, it is a powerful tool to recover self-respect and love yourself.

 

Because I read too many books and watch too many movies, I think that if the love is true, then the time won't have an affect on it. That saying "Right person, wrong time" is annoying, but I think there is a measure of truth to it. But I think if both people still love each other or are both willing to work on things ("Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting, my friend," etc. etc.), then there's no reason that reconciliation can't happen at any time, whether it's a month, a year, five years, whatever. I can think of so many people I know who have told me that a significant period of time and space is what gave them a lasting relationship with a person. I have to admit I was scared of NC at first, and the only reason I even went through with taking such a bold step was the recollection that standing up for myself in a similar fashion when my man has a smaller little freak-out of this nature about two years ago was what eventually made him turn his wheels around.

 

Frankly, considering this letter, it seems to have done a similar trick, though obviously it will take more time since it's a more severe situation. And considering that he seems to have made more progress at the time he wrote the letter compared to when I asked for NC in the first place, it's more proof that it was the right move to get him to really start progressing in a better direction. In his letter, he admits that he's never felt so emotionally awful in his life, and I frankly empathize.... I feel TERRIBLE right now. All I want to do is talk to him and spend time with him. But he says he knows he'll be better, and I have to believe I'll be better too. And when we are, that's when we will meet again -- another thing he talks about... meeting in the future. Anyway, I'm hopeful he's trying to indicate he also would like to reconcile without making any false promises.

 

Great attitude. In the end, only we can know what is right for us. The advice from others helps us think more laterally about our situations. But it is up to us to take the action that we feel suits us.

 

Exactly. Which is why, even though sometimes I don't like it, the super harsh advice is good. It helps me to see every possible angle in a situation, because then I feel like I can make the best choice after weighing up every option. For instance, this letter I got from my man was phrased in a way that could be taken a lot of different ways. I had trouble deciphering it at first and showed it to a few friends I'd been talking to about all these things as they happened. The responses I got ranged from, 'It's obvious he really loves you,' to 'This is a really fancy it's-not-you-it's-me letter'." I realized what I had to do was really read the letter closely myself, and honestly, the more I did, the more clear it became, because I know my man and the way he speaks to me better than anybody else, even people who are our mutual friends. And unless he's just REALLY making an extra serious effort to dupe me or lead me on, I realized it was okay to believe that what I took out of the letter -- the notion that he wants to reconcile after he takes care of his problems -- is a perfectly valid way to feel, and I responded accordingly to him... even though way less people thought I should when compared to the people who thought I shouldn't! I felt that especially since his letter was so honest, I should react in the way that was honest with myself, with words that came honestly from the heart. I thought, especially considering some of the values he expressed in the letter too, he would appreciate the answer if what he was saying was true.

 

This is a concept that it took me a while to get my head around: the famous "it's not you it's me" dilemma. From your own perspective and actions, do you feel that this can be a sincere statement of the need for time to grow, or do you think that dumpers use this phrase to conveniently make themselves feel better about their separation, and not upset the other person too much?

 

I think both things are possible and it depends on the person who says them. Like I'm pretty sure my man really does realize that he was a factor in the problem (albeit a bit late/recently), and not just with me, but in his life in general. My fear, of course, is that he's trying to let me down gently with explanations as to why we don't work and then flounce off with somebody else. He had even made a small comment that he'd met somebody (this is actually the reason I initiated NC, because while saying that, he had also been flirting with me the week before), and even though I'm pretty sure he's nowhere in a state to make even a rebound relationship last for more than a few throws, I worry I'm just naive and I'm missing the truth. I try to logic myself out with what I know about him and the situation, and it usually works to help me realize it's silly to worry those things, even though I still do.

 

The person I dated before this current guy, though... man... I got fake dumped like three times, and I eventually ended up ending it because I couldn't handle hearing that same speech on an almost monthly basis. In that case, I wised up and realized pretty quick what the nature of the beast was, but that was also figuring out what sort of person I was dealing with. It's hard to say trusting your gut is an exact science, but I think it's still pretty valid when it comes to stuff like this.

 

Man, you really got me talking!

 

Haha, this took me by surprise when I went on my mission to her. I apologised for a whole array of things that I had written down as a list for her. After every item I read out (e.g. being selfish, careless) she would slap my wrist and say 'NO!'. It was a really sweet thing when I look back now.

 

I think that shows that she still thinks you are a good person, or that she at least sees you in a better light than you see yourself. So you can at least be confident that she's not sitting around thinking that you're like the worst person in the world. I don't really know you and I obviously don't know her, but to me, that sounds like the kind of thing where, after she's had some time, if she thinks back to you, she will think of you as a person who is at least self-aware and someone she thinks of fondly. Now, I could be a cynic and also tell you that she was just trying to make you feel better because in the end, she still didn't take you back. But guess what! I wasn't there! I don't know her! You do, though! You know what that exchange was like, so only you really know the nuances of what it might mean.

 

What personality traits have you found hardest to adapt and improve?

 

Are you interested in reading a novel today or what? Haha. Man, I have been through so much BS in my life, it's really hard to say. I think the first thing I ever managed to overcome was that I used to have horrible, horrible anger issues, and a lot of those stemmed from growing up in an environment where I often felt I had to defend myself (home and school). I overcame those mostly when I went to college and I thought to myself, 'Here are new people who never did anything wrong to me, so I'll try hard not to be a huge jerk right away,' and I almost went too extreme in the opposite way, because I was crazy quiet in college. I guess the common thread is that I was still pretty wildly depressed, and all that got triggered even worse towards the end of school when my two best friends friend-dumped me (it felt like the world's worst break-up, I swear), and then my dad died at the same time. The depression I went into was that plus what I was dealing with when I was angry all the time, and that all equated into the disaster zone that my man is experiencing right now. It's why it's so obvious to me, because all the stuff he talks about having to handle is old hat to me. When I managed to claw myself out of all that mess, it was honestly when I met my man; being around him really helped me purge a lot of that negativity and want to be a better person because I love him so much. And my recent experience at the hospital has kind of been the crowning jewel on my adventure in self-awareness. Hopefully my man realizes that it's not about becoming perfect, it's just about figuring yourself out as you good and sticking to your values. Even if they are Beatles songs

 

After all your wonderful insights until now, I will be sure to listen to the song you suggest and let you know how it speaks to me

 

Haha, awesome. They are a local spin-off band from the Brooklyn-based band Bomb the Music Industry. Anyway, love most of their songs, but that one is what has really helped me understand this whole process the best.

 

THANK YOU!

 

No, thank YOU. Typing this stuff out actually really helps me out a lot Maybe one day I will share my man's letter with you to hear what you think of it?? No one's really had much to say that's useful, though I guess it's a moot point.

[Love...a miracle]

Thank you for taking the time to offer me so many of your insightful views! In fact, I printed out your post and was reading it many times over while I was at work.

 

But I've wasted enough time on the internet on BBS of all kinds to know that it's important to take most everything you read online with a whole shaker of salt, since it's easy for someone to judge your situation from behind a computer on the other side of the planet without really understanding the nuances of what's involved.

 

It is all too easy to write on these forums hoping for a quick fix answer from somebody, and when that doesn't come, to feel even more down than before (particularly when people pass judgement that does not reflect your reality). However, I find that writing on these forums helps in a number of ways. Firstly, you realise that your emotions are perfectly normal given the outcome of a break-up. Secondly, that there are soooo many other people around the world going through exactly the same sentiments of loss and agony, despite the differing circumstances. Thirdly, it is an excellent substitute for contacting the ex during NC, and preserving your dignity and self-respect.

 

That should speak highly to you that she does have the potential to be a good partner for you if she can sort through her stuff. Who wants to be with a person who can't even be honest about where they are in life? Then you're just living/dating a lie. Not that it makes it any easier for you or me or anybody to handle not having things go just the way they want when they want it, but it has to speak of your character too that you can respect it.

 

 

I know in my heart that she will turn out to be a happy, successful and healthy person in the long run. I do wish, however, that I had been more patient in listening to her troubles and not passing judgment on some of her (very destructive) habits or offering my advice so rigidly. I really did my best to be there for her and support her through some of her long-standing emotional issues because she had a traumatic childhood. But I have realised that only she is the one who can truly create her self-esteem and self-love. Nevertheless, in the last while I have been quite torn with guilt at times for feeling that I did not accept her for who she was at times, and tried to make her do things differently. I realised at the second break up that to beg and plead for her to stay with me would mean denying her the right to make up her own mind about what she wants from her life. And the LAST THING I want is to manipulate her to return to me out of a sense of guilt or doubt. If she returns, I want it to be because she willingly CHOSE that.

 

 

Haha, thanks. You're giving me way too much credit, though I guess if anything, I have always been pretty good at speaking my mind, especially online (because it doesn't require my voice). I have spent A LOT OF TIME in the months since the break up thinking about what happened, talking about what happened, trying to understand what happened.

 

 

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Writing letters or on this forum gives us the freedom to think profoundly about what we say to others. It is quite liberating to communicate in this way at times, especially when we feel vulnerable.[/FONT][/sIZE]

That saying "Right person, wrong time" is annoying, but I think there is a measure of truth to it. But I think if both people still love each other or are both willing to work on things ("Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting, my friend," etc. etc.), then there's no reason that reconciliation can't happen at any time, whether it's a month, a year, five years, whatever. I can think of so many people I know who have told me that a significant period of time and space is what gave them a lasting relationship with a person.

That "right time" is as annoying a phrase as "it's not you it's me", but as with most cliches, they are based in some sense of truth! This should be a comforting thought to those going through NC. In the mean time, moving on with my life is critical...clearly I don't think it is healthy to wait in agony for an ex to return into one's life. Having said that, how would you deal with a situation in which you have just started dating someone new and then your ex returns to you with a renewed commitment to love?

 

What do you find is different among your friends once they have returned to their exes after space and time apart? Have their relationships been stronger, or have they been tainted by the break ups?

But he says he knows he'll be better, and I have to believe I'll be better too. And when we are, that's when we will meet again -- another thing he talks about... meeting in the future.

In the letter, did he give any indication as to how it is that he will "find himself" or was it just one big category of the unknown? I wonder if meeting in the future means an active attempt to contact you again, or whether, serendipity needs to happen, i.e. a chance meeting in the same place and time.

 

letter I got from my man was phrased in a way that could be taken a lot of different ways. I had trouble deciphering it at first and showed it to a few friends I'd been talking to about all these things as they happened. The responses I got ranged from, 'It's obvious he really loves you,' to 'This is a really fancy it's-not-you-it's-me letter'." I realized what I had to do was really read the letter closely myself, and honestly, the more I did, the more clear it became, because I know my man and the way he speaks to me better than anybody else, even people who are our mutual friends.

That is a very revealing point, because I find myself so often trying to get others to explain the meanings of things that were very particular to my ex and I. In essence, only the person who lived that relationship can properly understand the signals. Did your interpretation of the letter change the more you read it or did you instantly recognise what its message was?

My fear, of course, is that he's trying to let me down gently with explanations as to why we don't work and then flounce off with somebody else.

This is why I find myself so committed to NC. I can only be my ex's lover, not her friend. I will not allow her to place me down slowly. For me, it's a take it or leave it attitude. I respect my ex for not leaving me 'breadcrumbs' or playing mind games with me. She has not done anything since our break up to make me feel small. It seems like NC is working for both of us.

I think that shows that she still thinks you are a good person, or that she at least sees you in a better light than you see yourself.

One of the most challenging tasks post-breakup is moving past the self-blame stage. I have found so many small instances in which my head torments me with guilt. One of the big ones is that I tried to impose my worldviews on her and not accept her unconditionally at times with some of her actions. 'Conveniently' I hardly think of the MANY amazing things that I did in the relationship and how I was good to her. Have you felt a similar sense of self-blame at times?

When I managed to claw myself out of all that mess, it was honestly when I met my man; being around him really helped me purge a lot of that negativity and want to be a better person because I love him so much

My ex is quite opposite from me in many respects but it has taken me SO LONG to realise that she balances me out so well and that the idea of my dream girl that I had before her is actually NOT what I want. Her more spontaneous and easy going nature was so good to bring my serious and planned nature under control and I feel I did the same balancing role for her. Loving someone unconditionally is really special!

 

Anyway, love most of their songs, but that one is what has really helped me understand this whole process the best.

I really liked the song, it was atmospheric and sincere. Beautiful words and message!

 

Typing this stuff out actually really helps me out a lot Maybe one day I will share my man's letter with you to hear what you think of it?? No one's really had much to say that's useful, though I guess it's a moot point.

I am really glad that you are also finding value from our discussions I feel a very satisfying sense of solidarity with you and it is incredibly comforting. I would be very happy to read it some time

 

Thanks for your message

[LinkWorshiper]

Thank you for taking the time to offer me so many of your insightful views! In fact, I printed out your post and was reading it many times over while I was at work.

 

Hahaha, no problem! I was actually excited to get home from work today to see if you had anything else to say. I used to spend a butt-ton of time on the internet, so it feels good to kind of get back to posting things like this. And I'm glad I saved your post for second, because I posted about my man's letter on another board kind of like this one and ended so ANNOYED because of how judgmental the replies were. It was hard to sift out the actually useful bits, especially because I was so pissed. I ended up replying like, 'Who are you to tell me that it's wrong to be forgiving? Forgiving is needy? NOT FORGIVING IS EGOTISTICAL AND LAME.' Boy, was I mad. /rant

 

 

It is all too easy to write on these forums hoping for a quick fix answer from somebody, and when that doesn't come, to feel even more down than before (particularly when people pass judgement that does not reflect your reality). However, I find that writing on these forums helps in a number of ways. Firstly, you realise that your emotions are perfectly normal given the outcome of a break-up. Secondly, that there are soooo many other people around the world going through exactly the same sentiments of loss and agony, despite the differing circumstances. Thirdly, it is an excellent substitute for contacting the ex during NC, and preserving your dignity and self-respect.

 

Oops, haha. Read what I just wrote above, lololol. That's all I have to say about that.

 

Anyway, yes to those things you said. I think it also helps if you manage to find people who you can openly discuss things with, kind of like this. It seems that it is helping both of us to talk about things like this! It is also refreshing to find someone else who has a less cynical worldview.

 

I know in my heart that she will turn out to be a happy, successful and healthy person in the long run. I do wish, however, that I had been more patient in listening to her troubles and not passing judgment on some of her (very destructive) habits or offering my advice so rigidly. I really did my best to be there for her and support her through some of her long-standing emotional issues because she had a traumatic childhood. But I have realised that only she is the one who can truly create her self-esteem and self-love. Nevertheless, in the last while I have been quite torn with guilt at times for feeling that I did not accept her for who she was at times, and tried to make her do things differently. I realised at the second break up that to beg and plead for her to stay with me would mean denying her the right to make up her own mind about what she wants from her life. And the LAST THING I want is to manipulate her to return to me out of a sense of guilt or doubt. If she returns, I want it to be because she willingly CHOSE that.

 

Agreed. Even if it sucks, the key detail is that they get to a place where they want to come back to you because they realize what they had in you. It's funny, though, some of what you said also reminds me of my ex's letter. I will PM it to you so you can look at it if you'd like; I'd rather not h ave the idiots of the universe have easy access to it. But anyway, he did make a point to say to me something like what you are saying about your girl, that no one else should be a factor in your growth but you.

 

 

That "right time" is as annoying a phrase as "it's not you it's me", but as with most cliches, they are based in some sense of truth! This should be a comforting thought to those going through NC. In the mean time, moving on with my life is critical...clearly I don't think it is healthy to wait in agony for an ex to return into one's life. Having said that, how would you deal with a situation in which you have just started dating someone new and then your ex returns to you with a renewed commitment to love?

 

It's weird. I'm not waiting FOR my man per se, but I know I'm not interested in anybody else but him, so I'm not dating around. I was never really that sort to begin with, because frankly, people suck and even if I get along with a person, there is still a long way to go before I'd call that person my friend, much less a person I'd want to date. It took my man SIX MONTHS to even get me to THINK about dating him, and the whole time I was just blissfully unaware he was even trying because my brain just doesn't go there, really. It wasn't until I really got to know him better that I realized that I really did love him more than just a friend. So honestly, it is REALLY DOUBTFUL that if he came back even a year from now, that I would have started dating someone new, and if I did, I'd really have to take the temperature, as I probably wouldn't have started anything new if I didn't feel something really important.... and it would have to be MORE important than what I feel for my man.

 

Honestly, another big reason I shy away from dating, especially right now, is because I don't think it's fair to the other person to date them ("rebound", if you will) when you have feelings for someone else, regardless of how things turn out. Like, I just imagine the scenario you just proposed and me probably having to tell someone who maybe had developed feelings for me, "Sorry, I just don't love you enough." Like, that's just cruel and lame.

 

On a final note about this, my roommate's heart was shattered by this jerk about a year and a half ago and she's still not over it, but she's been dating around, and frankly, I think it's keeping her in this state of misery because she's not paying attention to the real issues which are in her head, heart and attitude.

 

What do you find is different among your friends once they have returned to their exes after space and time apart? Have their relationships been stronger, or have they been tainted by the break ups?

 

There is another thread... I forget if it's on this board or the eNotAlone board, but it talks about how forgiveness is a big key for reconciliations to be successful, and I think that's very true. Forgiveness and self-awareness I think are the biggest factors in moving forward. I know two couples that separated because one of the people involved had a drug/alcohol problem. Seeing that the other person could come back clean helped a lot with reestablishing things with those couples. Another couple I know was together for nine years with a two year break, and the time was really important for making things last, even though the one who is my friend said those years were not easy or comfortable. In fact, the only reason their relationship is falling apart now is because the other has started reverting back to the habits that destroyed things in the first place. But that goes in with remembering that relationships get ongoing care; saying I love you once doesn't make it fly forever, right?

 

In the letter, did he give any indication as to how it is that he will "find himself" or was it just one big category of the unknown? I wonder if meeting in the future means an active attempt to contact you again, or whether, serendipity needs to happen, i.e. a chance meeting in the same place and time.

 

I will send you the letter. Maybe you can help ME answer some of those questions if you read the whole thing. I feel like you will have more insightful things to say than the people who just tell me that he's trying to nicely give me closure, because I just don't feel like it's that. Closure was when we spoke on the phone about taking space and I gave him my reasons, and he said, take all the time you need and be well. THAT was closure. This letter was something else, really. There was no reason for him to handwrite about his pain, his struggles, his newfound understanding to some of my complications, his want to see each other again when he's healed, the emphasis that he was NOT happy as casual acquaintances (this was underlined and capitalized). Anyway, you will read it and see.

 

As for speculation, though, he seems to indicate that he wants to see me when he feels better about himself. I think he is also purposely phrasing himself in a way that isn't setting down anything concrete, not making any promises or timeframes for the future, and I actually think that's ALSO an indication of maturity on his part. The only real qualifier there is is that "when he becomes a person he admires, he hopes I'll forgive him". He says something more vague earlier on about hoping that we'll be able to converse about our journeys one day, and also talks about how WE will live through this and WE are the people who are honest with their emotions. I don't know... to me, it sounds prospective.

 

That is a very revealing point, because I find myself so often trying to get others to explain the meanings of things that were very particular to my ex and I. In essence, only the person who lived that relationship can properly understand the signals. Did your interpretation of the letter change the more you read it or did you instantly recognise what its message was?

 

Definitely. I do have a few friends that I know I can go to to really talk through all the aspects of the situation and will help me with my thought process instead of trying to change how I'm approaching things. But yes, if anything, it took me a little bit, but I've gotten better at recognizing when someone's feedback isn't quite right. Because yes, exactly as you say, even other people who know or your ex won't know how you guys were together. As for the letter, the first time I read it, I cried because I was taken by the pain he was in... that was clear and genuine as day and I knew it because I'd been there and I know it sucks. Where it got a little hairy was when he started talking about us, because the English freak in me is like WHAT IS THE DIRECT OBJECT HERE? WHY DOES THIS SENTENCE SEGUE INTO THAT? So more reading has really helped me refine the meaning in his words, especially in context. The more I read it, the more it really sounds like he was not happy being friends but he knows he is not capable of being a good partner right now.

 

And unlike the naysayers here who will be like 'HE SAYS HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE WITH YOU SO FORGET HIM' are forgetting the part where he is a human too, and it is a mark of maturity that he can recognize that in himself instead of being selfish and taking everything he wants when he wants it. In the end, I think that was also part of his purpose in writing. Because why else bother after 3 weeks of NC that was thrown on because he was told that his attitude was damaging? I am pretty sure a lot of the changes he talks about in the letter really started to happen once NC took place, frankly.

 

This is why I find myself so committed to NC. I can only be my ex's lover, not her friend. I will not allow her to place me down slowly. For me, it's a take it or leave it attitude. I respect my ex for not leaving me 'breadcrumbs' or playing mind games with me. She has not done anything since our break up to make me feel small. It seems like NC is working for both of us.

 

YES. That is how I feel, and again, I think that is how my ex feels about me too. I won't say that my ex didn't breadcrumb me a bit, but I think a lot of that came from his inability to figure himself out, which made it impossible for him to figure out what he wanted. He knew he wanted me around, but he knew he couldn't be in a relationship... and I think that's where it ended... which is why I think the NC is what really lit a fire under his ass.

 

Anyway I think it's good you find NC is working for you guys. I hope it pays off in the end. Probably not having you as a factor in her though process will actually allow her to figure out how she feels about you better. Again, since I wasn't there, I don't really know, but it sounded like your time when you surprised her was very positive. So I would take that as a feather in your cap that there is potential there if the right hurdles get jumped. Obviously she didn't just turn you away, so to me, it doesn't seem logical at this point in time that she would turn you away later either. Unless you're secretly like... a serial killer or something, haha.

 

One of the most challenging tasks post-breakup is moving past the self-blame stage. I have found so many small instances in which my head torments me with guilt. One of the big ones is that I tried to impose my worldviews on her and not accept her unconditionally at times with some of her actions. 'Conveniently' I hardly think of the MANY amazing things that I did in the relationship and how I was good to her. Have you felt a similar sense of self-blame at times?

 

Totally. And it's easy for me because my brain is ****ed up and I have a serious business mental diagnosis. So it's easy for me to be like, 'Oh man, it's all my fault because of X, Y and Z things I do, and if I had a normal thought process and didn't do that one thing instead of doing this, maybe it wouldn't have happened,' etc. etc. Even though since I had this diagnosis, I have been working crazy hard to deal with it. Because of my medication, I've cut down on my drinking A LOT, though there was a period I picked up cigarettes to handle sobriety. And a bunch of other things of that nature. So sometimes I want to beat myself up like, 'Oh, there he is doing all these things for himself and what the hell am I doing?' And I forget to really pat myself on the back for the things I AM accomplishing. If anything, my one friend says she thinks some of the stuff I've been doing have been an inspiration to my ex with some of the changes he's been trying to make.

 

My ex is quite opposite from me in many respects but it has taken me SO LONG to realise that she balances me out so well and that the idea of my dream girl that I had before her is actually NOT what I want. Her more spontaneous and easy going nature was so good to bring my serious and planned nature under control and I feel I did the same balancing role for her. Loving someone unconditionally is really special!

 

Well they say opposites attract for a reason! I think it's better this way. You're already like yourself, so unless you're a narcissist, why would you want to date someone just like you? I like hearing about romances like that because it's my ideal, haha. My ex is like the same but different from me... we are so similar in somethings, and sooooo different in others, and I find that's what balances us so well. And yes, yes, loving someone unconditionally is the key... and I think that's something some people on this board are a bit too cynical to remember.

 

I really liked the song, it was atmospheric and sincere. Beautiful words and message!

 

Hurray, I made a new fan for the Cans!! I love them so much!! The songs "Barnacles" and "Beets Untitled" are also good for people like us

 

I am really glad that you are also finding value from our discussions I feel a very satisfying sense of solidarity with you and it is incredibly comforting. I would be very happy to read it some time

 

FO' RIZZLES.

 

Sending you dat shiiiiiiiii---- right now

[LinkWorshiper]

Okay... so.... this site doesn't allow PMing... I'm trying to decide if it's okay to post the letter here. I just don't want to... it's kind of personal, which is why I guess it's hard to get people to really understand it. If you have email, I will just email it to you?

[Love...a miracle]

Hahaha, no problem! I was actually excited to get home from work today to see if you had anything else to say. I used to spend a butt-ton of time on the internet, so it feels good to kind of get back to posting things like this. And I'm glad I saved your post for second, because I posted about my man's letter on another board kind of like this one and ended so ANNOYED because of how judgmental the replies were.

 

Me too, it is turning into a quite a fulfilling daily action to log on and read your views I am not asking others to give me propaganda and false hope, but I am looking for more balanced and optimistic replies. It is easy for some to judge rather than offer constructive insight.

 

It seems that it is helping both of us to talk about things like this! It is also refreshing to find someone else who has a less cynical worldview.

 

As I mentioned previously, we would not bother to post here the way we are if we did not inherently BELIEVE that there was a PROSPECT of a second chance. This is not to say that we are scheming or planning strategies to get our exes back. In fact, quite the opposite. We both recognise that we do not want to manipulate our exes back to us; we love them enough to LEAVE THEM ALONE. If they are to return, it must be through their own free will, and not out of obligation or guilt.

 

Agreed. Even if it sucks, the key detail is that they get to a place where they want to come back to you because they realize what they had in you.

 

I wonder, what do you think makes an ex think along the lines of "wow, what I had with him was really great"? Do you think there is a specific moment, or chain of events that leads to such a realisation? Is it bad experiences with dating others, or is it something that just comes with introspection? I would like to think that it has something to do with reflection brought on by the absence. I suppose there is another concern that those doing NC have, namely: does an ex missing you automatically translate into wanting to have you back?

 

Honestly, another big reason I shy away from dating, especially right now, is because I don't think it's fair to the other person to date them ("rebound", if you will) when you have feelings for someone else, regardless of how things turn out. Like, I just imagine the scenario you just proposed and me probably having to tell someone who maybe had developed feelings for me, "Sorry, I just don't love you enough." Like, that's just cruel and lame.

 

I suppose a lot of people do the rebound thing in order to move on and forget the impact of the ex on you. I have never done that so I can't speak from experience, but I would imagine that if the feelings for the ex are real, they won't simply disappear from dating someone half-heartedly. Having said that, I am finding it incredibly therapeutic socialising and going out on town with girls. It seems to increase my self-esteem again. I am not actively looking for anyone but am enjoying the company. So would you say that you are 'waiting' for your ex to come back?

 

Another couple I know was together for nine years with a two year break, and the time was really important for making things last, even though the one who is my friend said those years were not easy or comfortable.

 

I wonder if the time apart makes the heart grow fonder (where there was real love). Did those couples that you know start with baby steps when they got back together, or was it as though they had never broken up? One of the things I loved about seeing my ex through long distance is that every time we saw each other after months of absence it felt like we had never even left each other. We got straight back into being ourselves in a couple of minutes.

 

I will send you the letter. Maybe you can help ME answer some of those questions if you read the whole thing. I feel like you will have more insightful things to say than the people who just tell me that he's trying to nicely give me closure, because I just don't feel like it's that.

 

Please do I will be more than happy to read it and offer you my views. Email it to [email protected]

 

This letter was something else, really. There was no reason for him to handwrite about his pain, his struggles, his newfound understanding to some of my complications, his want to see each other again when he's healed, the emphasis that he was NOT happy as casual acquaintances (this was underlined and capitalized).

 

It takes courage to put pen to paper and express oneself honestly with a letter, because a letter is a permanent feature, unlike a hasty verbal statement. It took your ex a good deal of thinking and sincerity to put his words down. I am certain that the letter was from the heart.

 

As for speculation, though, he seems to indicate that he wants to see me when he feels better about himself. I think he is also purposely phrasing himself in a way that isn't setting down anything concrete, not making any promises or timeframes for the future, and I actually think that's ALSO an indication of maturity on his part.

 

This is a difficult one to swallow. Clearly, we would hope that our exes find their insights sooner rather than later. In reality, the time frame is completely unknown to us because it is up to our exes to find themselves. In fact, I would be less convinced that my ex is being sincere if she fixed a time frame. That would appear like a shallow attempt to appease me while laying me down softly. My ex told me not to wait for her, despite the fact that she hopes we get back together some day. This one is a painful blow if I were to have concrete ideas of when we might re-unite. Thankfully, I am not holding onto a date or time frame. I am living my life in the meantime and loving myself again. God willing, she will find her way back to me.

 

So more reading has really helped me refine the meaning in his words, especially in context. The more I read it, the more it really sounds like he was not happy being friends but he knows he is not capable of being a good partner right now.

 

You are fortunate that you have a letter that you can explore in understanding your situation. I was left with verbal memories of what my ex said to me during our second break up, some of which are more ambiguous than ink on a page. Either way, I find that I am viewing the actions of those days with far more clarity. When I think like that, I feel a bit more peace in realising that I am not to blame for many of the things that I felt very guilty about previously. I think that there were some very unlucky circumstances in this year particularly that put pressure on our relationship. (e.g. tragedies with friends)

 

Probably not having you as a factor in her though process will actually allow her to figure out how she feels about you better. Again, since I wasn't there, I don't really know, but it sounded like your time when you surprised her was very positive. So I would take that as a feather in your cap that there is potential there if the right hurdles get jumped. Obviously she didn't just turn you away, so to me, it doesn't seem logical at this point in time that she would turn you away later either.

 

She even told me at the time that she felt under pressure in trying to take the relationship into account in everything she did, despite me never putting pressure on her liberty. She said she cannot give the relationship her full dedication while she is deeply unhappy with herself and feeling lost at sea. When I surprised her, it sure FELT positive! I cuddled very intimately with her the first night and had such a sense of contentment. She even kicked out her house mate (who was sleeping in her room during those days). It felt like everything had fallen into place. I was crushed the next day, of course, after 'the talk'. To be honest, this whole scenario just feels like an unfinished book to me. My gut tells me that she will contact me before the year is up. My interesting thought is, how will I react to her getting hold of me?

 

And I forget to really pat myself on the back for the things I AM accomplishing. If anything, my one friend says she thinks some of the stuff I've been doing have been an inspiration to my ex with some of the changes he's been trying to make.

 

What kinds of things do you get up to in order to be proactive with the healing process?

 

Well they say opposites attract for a reason! I think it's better this way. You're already like yourself, so unless you're a narcissist, why would you want to date someone just like you?

 

Dating someone who teaches you new ways of doing things and opens your eyes to new worldviews makes life so much more fulfilling. I hope to be more easy going and live for the moment!

 

Look forward to reading the letter.

 

Have a lovely evening/morning on your side!!!

[LinkWorshiper]

Me too, it is turning into a quite a fulfilling daily action to log on and read your views I am not asking others to give me propaganda and false hope, but I am looking for more balanced and optimistic replies. It is easy for some to judge rather than offer constructive insight.

 

Same here. And yes, that's exactly the difference. I can maybe understand the harsher responses on the break up board, but I think most of the people posting on this particular board are at least looking for something different. I mean, of course there are those stories where it's very clear that maybe there's breadcrumbs or something and you need an objective person to let you know, but I think most of the stories that end up here are posted because there is an emotional element that makes it more than just the typical breakup/move on formula. But maybe it's easy for me to say that to you since both of us are in kind of emotional situations.

 

As I mentioned previously, we would not bother to post here the way we are if we did not inherently BELIEVE that there was a PROSPECT of a second chance. This is not to say that we are scheming or planning strategies to get our exes back. In fact, quite the opposite. We both recognise that we do not want to manipulate our exes back to us; we love them enough to LEAVE THEM ALONE. If they are to return, it must be through their own free will, and not out of obligation or guilt.

 

Exactly. I think there's a certain point where you know it's just done, but for people like us and the others on this board, I think the big issue is that it's NOT at that point, and there's hints that it might not have to go there. It should be a place for solidarity, not cynicism. It really bugs me how so many replies here seem to be about shaming the dumper and not looking at the situation in an empathetic fashion. And then it seems that if you don't adhere to that advice, you're making some kind of mistake. I think more people here should celebrate that there are people who are willing to figure out how to makes things work out with the people they love. But that's just me.

 

I wonder, what do you think makes an ex think along the lines of "wow, what I had with him was really great"? Do you think there is a specific moment, or chain of events that leads to such a realisation? Is it bad experiences with dating others, or is it something that just comes with introspection? I would like to think that it has something to do with reflection brought on by the absence. I suppose there is another concern that those doing NC have, namely: does an ex missing you automatically translate into wanting to have you back?

 

Well, I think it's probably different for every person in their different situations. The person I dumped before my current guy (his name is Evan, just to make it easier, haha)... anyway, the person I dumped before I started seeing Evan... I think about her sometimes, and sometimes I even wonder what she's doing or fondly remember stuff we used to do when things were good, but then I kind of shrug after I finish remembering and move on. Thinking about her isn't enough to drive me to want to even reach out and find out what she's doing, and even though I miss her once in a while, I guess, I still wouldn't take her back if she was the last person on the planet. Meanwhile, with Evan, I think about him multiple times a day, and often I am struck with the urge to send him a text when I really miss him, even though it's too soon and not really wise for either of us at this point in time. But the difference is that I still want to, you know?

 

For him, I kind of have the feelings it's going to be after a series of events and personal discoveries. I'm not sure exactly what he's going to do or how he's going to get there, but the big realization I think he's got to come to is that it's not about changing himself into a good person, but just recognizing that he already IS a good person. Then he'll have to learn how to accept himself for who he is, how to love himself and understand himself and be comfortable with himself. And then after that, I think is when he will start thinking about other people, namely me and our relationship. But first he needs the new goggles, you know? I get the feeling it might be something similar for your lady.

 

I had this epiphany about this today, by the way. I was talking to my roommate's ex from a long time ago today. I only met him recently and I thought he was nice, so I was kind of rooting for him when he told me he had done a lot of soul searching in the past few years and realized how badly he messed things up with my roommate and that he had a good thing and wanted to come back and see if she'd want to try again. She ended up rejecting him in a pretty messed up way and he was pretty wrecked by it. And I realized that the big problem there was that the ex came to this scenario with a changed perspective -- new goggles, if you will -- and was hoping to see if my roommate had new goggles too. Unfortunately, if she ever did, they got shattered by her last relationship, and frankly, she's a mess. But she has done nothing since that relationship to try and make new goggles, even though she talks about doing things for herself all the time. But trying to go to the gym and eat healthy isn't the same as really doing an examination of self. She has done nothing of that nature, and I hate to say it, it's exactly why she wasn't good enough for her ex (even though he obviously feels like it's something wrong with him), and it's also why she can't hold down a relationship for more than a month and just has a whole bunch of eff-buddies and no real commitment. NO GOGGLES.

 

I suppose a lot of people do the rebound thing in order to move on and forget the impact of the ex on you. I have never done that so I can't speak from experience, but I would imagine that if the feelings for the ex are real, they won't simply disappear from dating someone half-heartedly. Having said that, I am finding it incredibly therapeutic socialising and going out on town with girls. It seems to increase my self-esteem again. I am not actively looking for anyone but am enjoying the company. So would you say that you are 'waiting' for your ex to come back?

 

So I get the impression you live in Europe based on your spelling and phrasing, so I'm not sure if you have the company I work for there, but it's a giant natural/organic grocery store chain over here, and there are about 200 people who work at my location. I found that it was very helpful, even if Evan never knew about it, to be friendly and even flirt a little bit with some of the young guys. Having the little back-and-forths I have with some of them does kind of make me feel better, even if no one's trying to get with anyone. I guess it's just nice to feel like, 'Hey, I'm a cool person that other people like to talk to.'

 

But also having said that, when one of our most beloved team members was moving away, we took him out for a night on the town, and I ended up going home with him after dancing and flirting with him pretty much all night. He's friends with Evan and kept being like, 'Seriously, get over him, come home with me, it'll help, I guarantee it.' At first I was kind of on board, because the logical part of my brain was like, 'Maybe this will help my self esteem and help turn things down a notch. I like him well enough, and he's a friend I trust, AND he's moving away so I don't even have to worry about it being awkward later.' But then, even though I was ****faced and stoned out of my damn mind, I started to wonder if it really was such a good idea after all, because even as effed up as I was, I was still thinking about Evan and whether or not I'd feel guilty about it later, and would it REALLY make me feel better if so? I luckily ended up smoking way too much, getting the spins and passing out so I didn't have to decide in the end, but I think it worked out for the best, especially considering that I was having those doubts in such an intoxicated state. Soooooooo I guess my point is, I really don't see how rebounding helps. That is my closest experience to at least hooking up to get over it, and that didn't work out for me at all.

 

So in the meantime, I've been going back to how I was before I was dating anybody, which was pretty solitary. I do go out with people when I'm invited, and I have certain friends I like to see, but for the most part, I stay at home on my computer to play games or write or read or draw. I'm learning to tattoo and I'm thinking of maybe taking a class of some kind, and though sometimes I feel like I'm just trying to fill the time while Evan does his thing, I also realize that I'm a lot further in this process than he is. So if anything, I'm at the state where I'm remembering how to be comfortable with myself again, whereas he's trying to even figure out who he is and how to be around that guy. Because even if i am just filling time, at least it's keeping my brain active instead of just in this constant spiral of sadness with him not here.

 

I wonder if the time apart makes the heart grow fonder (where there was real love). Did those couples that you know start with baby steps when they got back together, or was it as though they had never broken up? One of the things I loved about seeing my ex through long distance is that every time we saw each other after months of absence it felt like we had never even left each other. We got straight back into being ourselves in a couple of minutes.

 

I'm not entirely sure of those details. I know the couple that broke up because of the drugs, she dumped him and pretty much told him that she refused to date a junkie. And when he came back into her life about a year and a half later, she was glad to see that he had kicked his habit, but she told me it definitely took her time to be confident that it was really gone for good.

 

I think it's a good indicator too that if you guys had a LDR and were able to pick right up like everything was good, that maybe this period of limbo is just like any other time apart you've had, just with no communication. But if it was like that, I would hope that when you start to talk again, if that spark lights right up again, you're probably in the clear.

 

You know, maybe part of her troubles with the relationship had to do with the distance... maybe some of those details are things that she's trying to work out. I've heard of people who get anxious when stuff like that is kind of hard to nail down, or maybe there's some sort of concrete decision that needs to be made and s/he is afraid of taking that step for fear it might be too impulsive. I know a couple that is about to get married, but back when they'd first met, the guy was afraid to ask my friend out because he had this panic attack that if she ended up being "the one", then his young single days would be over, and that fear made him put off asking her out for literally half a year. He probably had to get it out of his system that if that was the case, it was like some world-ending thing, but actually something very good. And now they're engaged, so there's that.

 

Please do I will be more than happy to read it and offer you my views. Email it to [email protected]

 

Sent!!!

 

It takes courage to put pen to paper and express oneself honestly with a letter, because a letter is a permanent feature, unlike a hasty verbal statement. It took your ex a good deal of thinking and sincerity to put his words down. I am certain that the letter was from the heart.

 

You're probably right. I'm also like 90% sure that he hasn't said a lot of the stuff in the letter to many people, so it's probably telling that he felt the need to say all the things he did, which you will read. I have to remind myself that if he wanted to write something for his own ego for closure, he probably wouldn't have been so personal about the whole thing. I guess sometimes I get worried because some of his statements about the future are kind of vague, but maybe that's not a bad thing, really.

 

This is a difficult one to swallow. Clearly, we would hope that our exes find their insights sooner rather than later. In reality, the time frame is completely unknown to us because it is up to our exes to find themselves. In fact, I would be less convinced that my ex is being sincere if she fixed a time frame. That would appear like a shallow attempt to appease me while laying me down softly. My ex told me not to wait for her, despite the fact that she hopes we get back together some day. This one is a painful blow if I were to have concrete ideas of when we might re-unite. Thankfully, I am not holding onto a date or time frame. I am living my life in the meantime and loving myself again. God willing, she will find her way back to me.

 

You're totally right. And it's funny how people spin things like that. I had originally asked Evan for a month of no communication and he responded that we shouldn't put a cap on it, and that I ought to take as much time as I needed and to contact him when I was ready... and my own freaking mom went on like, 'Can't you see how he's manipulating you by putting it all back on you with these ambiguous time frames?' But honestly, it says more that he knew the situation enough to know that wasn't enough time for him and what he needed for his own mental health. If he was being selfish, he'd have either said something like 'I'll contact you when I'm ready,' or agreed to the time frame and gone right back to putting me on the back burner.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure why, but I feel like your lady is navigating something similar to Evan. Maybe not the same issues, but some personal something. And if it is a personal something, then I don't think it's logical to think that she won't come back to you. Unless, like... Johnny Depp shows up at her doorstep and asks her to marry her. In which case, I'd hate to say it but, go girl, haha.

 

You are fortunate that you have a letter that you can explore in understanding your situation. I was left with verbal memories of what my ex said to me during our second break up, some of which are more ambiguous than ink on a page. Either way, I find that I am viewing the actions of those days with far more clarity. When I think like that, I feel a bit more peace in realising that I am not to blame for many of the things that I felt very guilty about previously. I think that there were some very unlucky circumstances in this year particularly that put pressure on our relationship. (e.g. tragedies with friends)

 

For situations like yours, I understand why they stress focusing on the actions the most, because words can have two meanings and be confusing. Having said that, I think it's good you are analyzing what happened. That kind of thinking helps me because my brain tends to spin out into these really ridiculous thought patterns, so trying to make myself look at things logically helps a lot. Sometimes, too, when you are standing right there, you don't realize you're just holding one or two puzzle pieces, and you can't figure out what they mean until you've stepped back and put many of them together, you know?

 

She even told me at the time that she felt under pressure in trying to take the relationship into account in everything she did, despite me never putting pressure on her liberty. She said she cannot give the relationship her full dedication while she is deeply unhappy with herself and feeling lost at sea. When I surprised her, it sure FELT positive! I cuddled very intimately with her the first night and had such a sense of contentment. She even kicked out her house mate (who was sleeping in her room during those days). It felt like everything had fallen into place. I was crushed the next day, of course, after 'the talk'. To be honest, this whole scenario just feels like an unfinished book to me. My gut tells me that she will contact me before the year is up. My interesting thought is, how will I react to her getting hold of me?

 

Oh man, TELL ME ABOUT IT. I feel the same way about the unfinished book thing. To a point I almost want to actually write a book about it, haha. I think that's where I'm sitting right now... like you are... waiting for that last Harry Potter book to come out, and will Ron be with Hermione or not? Obviously!

 

But it's funny, it does also sound like more and more like what Evan is dealing with. Maybe reading his letter might help you maybe get an idea of what might be going on in her camp? Obviously it won't be the same, but maybe it'll give you a little piece of mind about these sorts of things that people go through. It makes me even more eager to hear your thoughts, haha.

 

You know, my gut also feels the same about Evan contacting me before the end of the year, maybe around the holidays. I think you just have to get to a place where when you do hear from her, it's do different than if your best friend or your mom called you. I mean, think of it in the sense, like, you have some friends, and you have your best friend, but that doesn't change the way you react when you get a text or something, you know? So I think it's best that if you got a text from her, you wouldn't feel any different than if your friend texted you. I was thinking about this earlier on the subway, mostly because I was having an anxiety attack and I didn't feel very good... but I remember thinking to myself, 'If Evan texted me right now, I don't think I'd take it too well. And even though I really want him to, I'm clearly not ready because it just adds to this anxiety instead of it just being like... regular.' At least, that's my thought on it right now.

 

What kinds of things do you get up to in order to be proactive with the healing process?

 

I listed some of the stuff I've been doing earlier. Work has been really key for me in keeping busy, though lately even that has been stressing me out a lot. (My boss is literally Satan.) Other than that, I've been trying to go back to my old hobbies, which has been kind of hard because I used to spend a lot of time on the internet doing nerdy things, but I really dislike the way a lot of that stuff is on Tumblr and all that, because it's just not the same and I don't like it. I took up some new hobbies, been toying with the idea of writing a memoir or something... I try to do things with friends once in a while, even if it's just eating out or something. I've also been doing a lot of stuff to do with my diagnosis... more intense therapy than what I was doing before, watching my meds and my alcohol intake... there was a period where I was even stone cold sober. It doesn't sound very exciting, but that's that.

 

Dating someone who teaches you new ways of doing things and opens your eyes to new worldviews makes life so much more fulfilling. I hope to be more easy going and live for the moment!

 

A good mantra. I think that getting your head on straight like that is a big step that can only help things with you and your lady. And I hope she realizes how much she helps you, even if she has a hard time seeing that. I sure hope you told her!!

 

Look forward to reading the letter.

 

Have a lovely evening/morning on your side!!!

 

Haha, look forward to hearing back! Enjoy your side of the pond as well

[Love...a miracle]

most of the stories that end up here are posted because there is an emotional element that makes it more than just the typical breakup/move on formula.

 

I also find that many people who post under this topic had a less hostile break up and hold little or no resentment towards the ex. Under the breakup topic I see many people with hate and spite towards their ex. Clearly, the circumstances of the breakup are incredibly important in contemplating whether a second chance is a prospect. In both our cases, I feel like the book has been left unfinished. Although this is no guarantee that our exes will return, at least the right conditions are there for that to happen, whereas a nasty breakup quite frequently burns all the bridges for any possible future reconciliation.

 

It should be a place for solidarity, not cynicism. It really bugs me how so many replies here seem to be about shaming the dumper and not looking at the situation in an empathetic fashion.

 

This experience for me has been a major revelation as to how solidarity can extend between people who do not even know each other, but share the same experiences of hard emotions. It is a wonderful thought that someone in another part of the world can make me feel better about myself. And I don't even know that someone haha! Good point, shaming the dumper can bring no benefit whatsoever. Hate is an emotion that only serves to tear you up on the inside. Even if the dumper learned of your resentment to them, I don't think they would give a damn if the breakup was bad to begin with.

 

the big realization I think he's got to come to is that it's not about changing himself into a good person, but just recognizing that he already IS a good person. Then he'll have to learn how to accept himself for who he is, how to love himself and understand himself and be comfortable with himself. And then after that, I think is when he will start thinking about other people, namely me and our relationship.

 

That is a very refreshing way of looking at the ex's need to find their self-esteem. I never thought of it that way before. I always saw it as a need to change somehow, but when I think of it now, in fact my ex doesn't need to change, she is AWESOME just as she is. All she needs to do is back herself and notice what others have been all along. I think that she has put herself down so much in life, and despite always being there for others, she has often not been there for herself. I suppose you make a good point that we cannot know how our exes will come to their realisations, and that it is not our task to make that happen in any case. We cannot manipulate them.

 

But first he needs the new goggles, you know? I get the feeling it might be something similar for your lady.

 

I hope my name is written on her's some time in the future hahaha

 

But she has done nothing since that relationship to try and make new goggles, even though she talks about doing things for herself all the time. But trying to go to the gym and eat healthy isn't the same as really doing an examination of self.

 

I have found that it does no good to be a pretender about the healing process. Going out to clubs and playing games when you are not feeling good will only make you even more insecure about the breakup. It is important to genuinely FEEL good about yourself to get through this. Feeling good will only come about if we do things that we genuinely enjoy. I for one, am finally starting to take part in the hobbies that made me happy before I even met my ex.

 

Having the little back-and-forths I have with some of them does kind of make me feel better, even if no one's trying to get with anyone. I guess it's just nice to feel like, 'Hey, I'm a cool person that other people like to talk to.'

 

I find that it helps to be sociable because it takes my mind off of her and makes me focus on others for a change. Also, I feel like I am still well liked and appreciated. Goes a long way to restoring self-worth, even if I am not actively looking for anything. Also, it makes me realise that she is MISSING OUT on fun times with me!

 

You know, maybe part of her troubles with the relationship had to do with the distance... maybe some of those details are things that she's trying to work out.

 

LDR does something funny to ordinary thought process. It brings doubt and anxiety about the future of the relationship. I am convinced that it had a massive impact on us and was fatal in the end because we just drifted apart. The difficulty was not knowing what/where we will be in 2014. Instead of talking properly about it we kind of delayed the discussion until it was too late. I firmly believe that if we are to be in a permanent setting in one place we will be amazing together. You know, I was thinking about her a lot today and I am finally starting to feel more at peace in the knowledge that if this girl really loves me she will make her way back to me one day. I am not going to wait in desperation, but I am at peace with the thought that I have been so thoughtful about this whole process and been sincere with my emotions. There is not much else I can do without infringing on her free will. And I am proud that I care enough to leave her with her own decisions.

 

I have to remind myself that if he wanted to write something for his own ego for closure, he probably wouldn't have been so personal about the whole thing.

 

I think that his letter was very sincere and well thought through. It wasn't some spur of the moment thing. This was something that he took time with. I will email you my more detailed views on the letter, but thank you for sharing it with me

 

And if it is a personal something, then I don't think it's logical to think that she won't come back to you. Unless, like... Johnny Depp shows up at her doorstep and asks her to marry her. In which case, I'd hate to say it but, go girl, haha.

 

Haha, OH NO! She mentioned that Johnny Depp is the only man who could walk into the room and take her back to his place no questions asked!! But, yeah, if her issues really are personal, then there is no reason to believe she can't give the relationship another chance. Never thought of it like that but if she had something against me I would have far less inclination to believe in a second chance. Only time will tell if her issues are personal or if she just said that, but I like to think that I can read her emotions when it comes to that well enough.

 

Sometimes, too, when you are standing right there, you don't realize you're just holding one or two puzzle pieces, and you can't figure out what they mean until you've stepped back and put many of them together, you know?

 

What did you do to step back and view your situation as a whole? Did you take time to analyse what happened or did the realisations just come to you when you least expected?

 

You know, my gut also feels the same about Evan contacting me before the end of the year, maybe around the holidays. I think you just have to get to a place where when you do hear from her, it's do different than if your best friend or your mom called you.

 

Great way of looking at it. It is far better to be contacted from an ex when we are emotionally controlled and back in command of our own lives, otherwise reconciliation can be complicated. Quite funny that the one time she did contact me after the breakup we had a good 3/4hr conversation via SMS. It was friendly talk, nothing to do with the relationship.

 

A good mantra. I think that getting your head on straight like that is a big step that can only help things with you and your lady. And I hope she realizes how much she helps you, even if she has a hard time seeing that. I sure hope you told her!!

 

I'll tell you this. My ex was such a pillar of strength in my life. She was always supporting me and unendingly loyal. She is humble and never really took credit for how much of an impact she had. Believe me I went all out when I surprised her to let her know that, but I have a feeling that she will only really acknowledge herself some time down the line because of how she feels about herself...Damn, this girl was a keeper hey!

 

Good to hear from you again, and I will get to responding to your email a little later once I consider it properly

 

Have a lovely evening/morning ahead !!!

[LinkWorshiper]

I also find that many people who post under this topic had a less hostile break up and hold little or no resentment towards the ex. Under the breakup topic I see many people with hate and spite towards their ex. Clearly, the circumstances of the breakup are incredibly important in contemplating whether a second chance is a prospect. In both our cases, I feel like the book has been left unfinished. Although this is no guarantee that our exes will return, at least the right conditions are there for that to happen, whereas a nasty breakup quite frequently burns all the bridges for any possible future reconciliation.

 

I think that there's a bit of truth to that. Having said that, Evan and I had a pretty horrific break up. I threw him a birthday party at a karaoke bar, and everybody was pretty lit by the time we left. And long story short, he started acting like a drunk ******* and hurt my feelings, so I tried to sit it out for fifteen minutes to cool off, which got him upset, because I think he was trying to tell me something personal (in front of the whole party -- I know, stupid....). Anyway, during this time, his stupid friend butts in and starts telling me what a horrible girlfriend I am and how little I understand Evan, which made it worse, so when Evan and I finally got to talking, things exploded, and I got more upset, and he got more pissed off and then just stormed off into the night like, 'I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE THIS IS THE LAST STRAW!'

 

....and that was how we broke up, but I still love him. It's because of things like that that all the things he was talking about in his letter were so obvious to me, so I couldn't even be angry, and I'm still not. I think he didn't really understand it until very recently though. BUT, you know, I could have gone the other route and been like, '**** YOU TOO.' But that's not how I want to treat people I care about even if they are a hot mess. I wish more people had that thought in mind when ti comes to this stuff.

 

This experience for me has been a major revelation as to how solidarity can extend between people who do not even know each other, but share the same experiences of hard emotions. It is a wonderful thought that someone in another part of the world can make me feel better about myself. And I don't even know that someone

 

Oh believe it, bro! Before I became a social person, and I was really depressed in high school and college, I spent almost ALL my time online. i was really famous for writing fanfics and doing fanart for my favourite Japanese cartoon. And it was amazing how many friends I had all over the planet, some of whom I still talk to. I used to get so many Christmas cards back when that fandom was popular, from people everywhere. It was kind of nice. But I hate the internet now, so it's kind of hard to go back there, which sucks.

 

Good point, shaming the dumper can bring no benefit whatsoever. Hate is an emotion that only serves to tear you up on the inside. Even if the dumper learned of your resentment to them, I don't think they would give a damn if the breakup was bad to begin with.

 

Yeah, I don't thinks helpful to either reenforce to the posters here that their ex is some horrible person (unless they actually did do something bad, like cheating), nor is it helpful to make the posters here feel stupid for doing one thing or the other. Maybe we're the weird ones and that sort of interaction is okay for most of the people here, but I don't know... I just don't think it's very useful. It would be much more useful to present things in a way that made the posters things about their own situations instead of making blanket statements like, 'OH HE'S SENDING YOU MESSAGES FOR HIS OWN EGO, SO DON'T REPLY BECAUSE YOU'RE STUPID IF YOU DO.'

 

That is a very refreshing way of looking at the ex's need to find their self-esteem. I never thought of it that way before. I always saw it as a need to change somehow, but when I think of it now, in fact my ex doesn't need to change, she is AWESOME just as she is. All she needs to do is back herself and notice what others have been all along. I think that she has put herself down so much in life, and despite always being there for others, she has often not been there for herself. I suppose you make a good point that we cannot know how our exes will come to their realisations, and that it is not our task to make that happen in any case. We cannot manipulate them.

 

I'm guilty of that, so I totally know what you mean. I think it's good if she takes the time to discover things about herself or maybe take up a new hobby or something of that nature, but I don't think it's a matter of her changing who she is per se. More like looking inside herself and understand what's going on in there. And maybe she comes across something in herself that she doesn't like, but it's not even about being like, 'Well, I just won't do that anymore,' but more like, 'Okay, I have this particular quality I don't like, so how can I find a way to be at peace with it.' It could be like, maybe she has a very short temper, and maybe she will work on patience, but it doesn't mean that that temper is going to go away, even if she becomes much more capable of taking a few breaths, you know?

 

And also yes about the manipulation. That's where I sort of hit a wall with Evan. I could see all that stuff in him long before it happened, and I was even mentioning it to him, and he was denying it was there. And that's the thing, me saying something wasn't going to make him realize. He had to get to a point where he realized it himself.

 

I hope my name is written on her's some time in the future hahaha

 

Nah, you don't want that! You want her to look through those goggles and see you and be like, 'OMG, why is he so shiny? He wasn't so shiny before. But damn, he is shiny now!'

 

I have found that it does no good to be a pretender about the healing process. Going out to clubs and playing games when you are not feeling good will only make you even more insecure about the breakup. It is important to genuinely FEEL good about yourself to get through this. Feeling good will only come about if we do things that we genuinely enjoy. I for one, am finally starting to take part in the hobbies that made me happy before I even met my ex.

 

That's my roommmate's main issue for sure. As for me, I know I still get sad about Evan at least once a day, and I miss him, but I try to focus on what's at hand. Try to just do things that will help me move forward so that when he does see me again, I'm not some stick in the mud he left behind. I can't say I'm quite going back to the way I was before, because I was incredibly depressed before Evan, but I'm at least getting good at being on my own again. That was a thing I used to be amazing at.

 

I find that it helps to be sociable because it takes my mind off of her and makes me focus on others for a change. Also, I feel like I am still well liked and appreciated. Goes a long way to restoring self-worth, even if I am not actively looking for anything. Also, it makes me realise that she is MISSING OUT on fun times with me!

 

This is a thing I'm struggling with, I have to say. Like, I do stuff with friends and all, and it's fine, but I have a hard time feeling like he thinks he's missing out. It is very easy for me, even with that letter which details how horrible he feels right now, to go to this place where he's out dating around, he has ten thousand girlfriends he's sleeping with every night, that he's got a million other things to do with his life that he won't ever thing about me at all, so he could care less what I'm doing. I get terrified sometimes that the prospect of him just moving on and never looking back is what will happen, even though it's kind of illogical to think that.

 

LDR does something funny to ordinary thought process. It brings doubt and anxiety about the future of the relationship. I am convinced that it had a massive impact on us and was fatal in the end because we just drifted apart. The difficulty was not knowing what/where we will be in 2014. Instead of talking properly about it we kind of delayed the discussion until it was too late. I firmly believe that if we are to be in a permanent setting in one place we will be amazing together. You know, I was thinking about her a lot today and I am finally starting to feel more at peace in the knowledge that if this girl really loves me she will make her way back to me one day. I am not going to wait in desperation, but I am at peace with the thought that I have been so thoughtful about this whole process and been sincere with my emotions. There is not much else I can do without infringing on her free will. And I am proud that I care enough to leave her with her own decisions.

 

Sounds like you're getting to a good place with your mindset. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, but I think I'm on my way. I still get scared of Evan fading away, so I think that's what's holding me back a little. I love him so much, it's really stupid. I don't love people, not even my mom... so this has been very hard for me. But I think it's good you've kind of identified what some of the issues were so that if you come back to it, you will be able to have real talks about those things and make them non-issues. It sounds like it was a lot of stuff there that had to do with making the next big step, so maybe she has some commitment issues? Regardless, I think that space will be good for both of you to think about all those things and what exactly you want for the future.

 

I think that his letter was very sincere and well thought through. It wasn't some spur of the moment thing. This was something that he took time with. I will email you my more detailed views on the letter, but thank you for sharing it with me

 

Oh whew, I'm glad you think so. I was pretty sure when I read it that it was his genuine feelings, and his pain really spoke to me and struck a chord. I'm looking forward to hearing your more detailed thoughts. Also thanks for letting me send it to you! I'm amazed I found someone on this site who I thought might actually be able to read it thoughtfully!!

 

Haha, OH NO! She mentioned that Johnny Depp is the only man who could walk into the room and take her back to his place no questions asked!! But, yeah, if her issues really are personal, then there is no reason to believe she can't give the relationship another chance. Never thought of it like that but if she had something against me I would have far less inclination to believe in a second chance. Only time will tell if her issues are personal or if she just said that, but I like to think that I can read her emotions when it comes to that well enough.

 

Sometimes it helps to think if they would have had another chance to tell you to piss off. Like if she really had a problem with you and you randomly showed up at her place, she would probably have turned you away, or maybe if she was being polite, invited you in for a drink and THEN turned you away... not kicked her flatmate out for the night I guess there's always the fear that somehow there is some elaborate thing being set up against you and they're taking crazy pains to play you... but I try to remind myself that THAT IS RIDICULOUS. No one is going to work that hard at playing head games to MAYBE have a back up when there's so many other people out there unless they're just a really bad person. And even then WHO WOULD WORK THAT HARD? At least, that's what I try to tell myself.

 

What did you do to step back and view your situation as a whole? Did you take time to analyse what happened or did the realisations just come to you when you least expected?

 

I have this friend at work who was actually at the party when everything happened, so she saw the whole thing. She is very good at talking about things like feelings and all that kind of stuff. So no joke, almost every day, we eat lunch together, and we would talk about what happened, and we'd keep talking even as things evolved. She's the one who usually helps me think about what things are logical and what things aren't and stuff like that. Most of the realizations I've had are a combination of talks like that and then just thinking about Evan as I know him and piecing it together like that. I can't say I totally have the big picture yet as I have no idea what Evan will do next, but the fog is lifting, especially with his confessions in that letter.

 

Great way of looking at it. It is far better to be contacted from an ex when we are emotionally controlled and back in command of our own lives, otherwise reconciliation can be complicated. Quite funny that the one time she did contact me after the breakup we had a good 3/4hr conversation via SMS. It was friendly talk, nothing to do with the relationship.

 

Probably at that point she was trying to ease some of her own guilt and make sure you were okay, or maybe to gauge what your status was. Obviously she has had time to think though things and it sounds like she might be thinking about things in a different way than she had right after the breakup. I think it is a good sign that when you went to see her, your conversation was more serious.

 

I'll tell you this. My ex was such a pillar of strength in my life. She was always supporting me and unendingly loyal. She is humble and never really took credit for how much of an impact she had. Believe me I went all out when I surprised her to let her know that, but I have a feeling that she will only really acknowledge herself some time down the line because of how she feels about herself...Damn, this girl was a keeper hey!

 

Haha, well you sound like a keeper too so I hope it all works out for you guys! I know what you mean though... Evan was a huge beacon of light for me. I think it freaked him out with his own issues that someone would find him wonderful, though.

 

Good to hear from you again, and I will get to responding to your email a little later once I consider it properly

 

Sure things! Glad to chat! And I appreciate you looking at that letter! Means a lot Let me know if there is anything else I can help with

 

Have a lovely evening/morning ahead !!!

[Love...a miracle]

Anyway, during this time, his stupid friend butts in and starts telling me what a horrible girlfriend I am and how little I understand Evan, which made it worse, so when Evan and I finally got to talking, things exploded, and I got more upset, and he got more pissed off and then just stormed off into the night like, 'I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE THIS IS THE LAST STRAW!'

 

Oh man, that sure sounds like a BAD situation! So crazy how during events that should be celebrations, things like that can happen. I remember when I took my girlfriend to a horse riding event and I forgot the tickets at home...turned into really bad vibes out of nothing. I guess it just goes to show how fickle our emotions can play out hey. How did you handle that situation when he stormed off? In my experience, deep relationship discussions during a night out don't really work out too well because the settign is just not conducive.

 

BUT, you know, I could have gone the other route and been like, '**** YOU TOO.' But that's not how I want to treat people I care about even if they are a hot mess.

 

Responding in such a negative way would also have burned bridges with regard to future reconciliation prospects. I think that shows maturity and love for evan if you gave him the space to calm his thoughts. Sometimes, in fact, discussion on volatile topics is best postponed for later in any case.

 

i was really famous for writing fanfics and doing fanart for my favourite Japanese cartoon. And it was amazing how many friends I had all over the planet, some of whom I still talk to.

 

That sounds like a really fun and creative hobby To think that without the internet none of these interactions would have been possible. I laugh when my mother tells me stories of how she had a penpal overseas and waited for weeks on end to get a single reply haha!

 

Yeah, I don't thinks helpful to either reenforce to the posters here that their ex is some horrible person (unless they actually did do something bad, like cheating), nor is it helpful to make the posters here feel stupid for doing one thing or the other.

 

I find that sometimes in posts the focus is on the wrong person, namely the ex. If we accept that we can't (shouldn't) manipulate the ex to change their free will, then there is only one person relevant to this discussion, ME! The only aspect of this that I can control is how I handle the breakup. I agree that there are some reasons for which resentment is perfectly normal (like cheating) but otherwise it can only lead to bad energy.

 

And also yes about the manipulation. That's where I sort of hit a wall with Evan. I could see all that stuff in him long before it happened, and I was even mentioning it to him, and he was denying it was there. And that's the thing, me saying something wasn't going to make him realize. He had to get to a point where he realized it himself.

 

And that is where I am reminded that love is a FEELING not a THOUGHT. No matter how hard we might try to reason logically with someone, the love they have for us can only be expressed genuinely as a feeling. Hence why it is so difficult to help an ex through their alone time. Only they understand how to control their emotions and feelings. I realised that time when I went to see my ex the second time. I tried to 'talk' things through and plan how we could make it work next year. I realised that all my sweet talking meant nothing if she was not feeling that she should take the plunge with me. Hence why I believe that only if WE feel good, will our exes take an interest in us again. They will want to be around good feelings again

 

Nah, you don't want that! You want her to look through those goggles and see you and be like, 'OMG, why is he so shiny? He wasn't so shiny before. But damn, he is shiny now!'

 

Good point! Hence why gym will make me confident and appealing haha

 

As for me, I know I still get sad about Evan at least once a day, and I miss him, but I try to focus on what's at hand. Try to just do things that will help me move forward so that when he does see me again, I'm not some stick in the mud he left behind.

 

I am happy for you that you are learning to live in the moment (very hard to do!). I went out last night and had a blast with friends. For the first time in a long time, I wasn't constantly thinking of my ex, which was refreshing for a change! When you see him again, you want to be in your prime form emotionally and mentally so that you can handle the situation calmly and dispassionately.

 

I get terrified sometimes that the prospect of him just moving on and never looking back is what will happen, even though it's kind of illogical to think that.

 

I also think like that at times. But then I was thinking to myself that there is quite simply nothing one can do. In our cases, in any event, I think that it is our exes who need to make the next step. We have stated our cases and I think that if the ex is in love with us and it is meant to be, they will let us know! Other than that, I try not to think about what my ex is or isn't doing. Hence, NC to the max!

 

Sounds like you're getting to a good place with your mindset. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, but I think I'm on my way. I still get scared of Evan fading away, so I think that's what's holding me back a little. I love him so much, it's really stupid

 

It is so weird but all those I have spoken to say that the moment their exes came back was when they GOT OVER the ex. This sounds completely counter-intuitive but I strongly believe it. Once we take our ex off the pedestal and genuinely FEEL good about our lives, our exes will see that we can live without them. If ever there was an expression of confidence it would be that! Easier said than done, but I am finally reaching a stage where I genuinely believe that my ex is missing out on so many fun things that she might wait very long to get to do again.

 

Oh whew, I'm glad you think so. I was pretty sure when I read it that it was his genuine feelings, and his pain really spoke to me and struck a chord. I'm looking forward to hearing your more detailed thoughts. Also thanks for letting me send it to you!

 

I will still get to your letter. Busy weekend haha!

 

Sometimes it helps to think if they would have had another chance to tell you to piss off. Like if she really had a problem with you and you randomly showed up at her place, she would probably have turned you away, or maybe if she was being polite, invited you in for a drink and THEN turned you away... not kicked her flatmate out for the night

 

I will tell you that I GENUINELY thought I had her back. It was like nothing ever changed and it felt so right. I still remember her face when she saw me at the door, I will forever carry that memory with me, so beautiful The weirdest thing is just how natural it all felt.

 

She's the one who usually helps me think about what things are logical and what things aren't and stuff like that.

 

Talking with friends who care is so beneficial to helping get through this because they bring a different spin on how you see the situation and help you get rid of the destructive self-blame.

 

Probably at that point she was trying to ease some of her own guilt and make sure you were okay, or maybe to gauge what your status was.

 

In many ways I am happy we have not continued messaging each other because in this way we are preventing us falling to being friends. And you know what they say about falling into the friend zone! Only one role: lover, not friend! Hahah

 

Haha, well you sound like a keeper too so I hope it all works out for you guys! I know what you mean though..

 

Thank you! I hope that life gives me happiness and that I will be able to share that again with that someone special.

 

Hope you're having an excellent Saturday!

[LinkWorshiper]

Oh man, that sure sounds like a BAD situation! So crazy how during events that should be celebrations, things like that can happen. I remember when I took my girlfriend to a horse riding event and I forgot the tickets at home...turned into really bad vibes out of nothing. I guess it just goes to show how fickle our emotions can play out hey. How did you handle that situation when he stormed off? In my experience, deep relationship discussions during a night out don't really work out too well because the settign is just not conducive.

 

Yeah, it was pretty bad. But like you read in the letter, I think a lot of the issues that made it happen were on a slow burn for him long before we even knew each other. Frankly, I didn't handle things well at all, but that was a lot to do with my own stuff. I was already starting to fall apart because of how everything was building up, and both of us were way too drunk to have a proper conversation. I tried to explain to him why his being a drunk @sshole was upsetting me, but he didn't want to hear about it -- got real belligerent -- and I had a bit of an episode. So when he stormed of, I am not kidding you, I fell down onto the sidewalk and cried/screamed his name really loudly and kept hitting myself, which is a thing I do when I can't figure out how to talk. (This was about 3am near Union Square in Manhattan, so it was quietish, but there were people out.)

 

Luckily I had a friend nearby who saw me falling apart, so when I started to bite myself, she put her hand in my mouth. I am not kidding you, when I had my second breakdown after all this, it was bad. I ended up in the hospital for two weeks. Anyway, it was amazing too, another friend, who I didn't even think was my friend like this until that night, offered to let me sleep on his sofa so I wouldn't be alone. He had been crying the whole night too, because he is manic depressed and could see exactly what was going on and it really messed with him. One day I will ask Evan if he ever apologized to that friend, because I'm not sure even even really knows he needs to.

 

Responding in such a negative way would also have burned bridges with regard to future reconciliation prospects. I think that shows maturity and love for evan if you gave him the space to calm his thoughts. Sometimes, in fact, discussion on volatile topics is best postponed for later in any case.

 

Well, originally, right after everything, I was texting him like every four days or so because I thought it was just a stupid drunk argument and I didn't understand why he didn't want to just talk about it and be over it. I didn't really understand just yet that it wasn't really about the argument at all, and that it had just been a trigger. I was just thinking about it, but I wonder if a quiet discussion would have in fact really made things better. I think if we had done that, it might have circumvented all the issues that he'd been trying to avoid. I know it sounds kind of messed up, but you know how they say things happen a certain way for a reason, and sometimes I wonder if what has SAVED our prospects is that it was so messy. Because the issue is that he was avoiding his stuff, and possibly he would have found an avenue to do that if we had talked about it in a way that would have given him time to let those defenses kick in. If that makes sense.

 

That sounds like a really fun and creative hobby To think that without the internet none of these interactions would have been possible. I laugh when my mother tells me stories of how she had a penpal overseas and waited for weeks on end to get a single reply haha!

 

It was pretty fun while it lasted. The internet is weird now, and I don't like Tumblr and all that stuff, so I don't really have the same interest in doing that kind of stuff. Well, at least the fan-related stuff... I still like to draw and write. Anyway, I feel like such an old man saying this, but I feel like the internet is... TOO fast now, hahaha. So I started learning how to tattoo instead, haha.

 

But you know, I used to write to a lot of those people... I still prefer getting a letter from someone, even if I could just as easily email that person!!

 

I find that sometimes in posts the focus is on the wrong person, namely the ex. If we accept that we can't (shouldn't) manipulate the ex to change their free will, then there is only one person relevant to this discussion, ME! The only aspect of this that I can control is how I handle the breakup. I agree that there are some reasons for which resentment is perfectly normal (like cheating) but otherwise it can only lead to bad energy.

 

I agree with you totally. I totally believe in karma and that what you put into it is what you'll get back, even if maybe it takes some time. You also can't MAKE a person change; the best you can do is let them know where you stand and then leave it at that. Also I agree that the boards do tend to vilify the exes too much. I found that I ended up having to defend Evan too much when I wasn't really there to hear what other people thought about him, but more like how I should function in the situation. But people seem to think telling me that I'm stupid for spending a single thought on someone they don't even know, it just makes me sit there and think, 'Wow, you are incredibly bitter. Talk about negative energy.' Like, I just feel like many people treat EVERY situation like you were in a situation where you were getting cheated on or beaten or something equally bad. Feelings are way more complicated than that and it makes NO sense to me why people think it's helpful not to be sensitive to that.

 

And that is where I am reminded that love is a FEELING not a THOUGHT. No matter how hard we might try to reason logically with someone, the love they have for us can only be expressed genuinely as a feeling. Hence why it is so difficult to help an ex through their alone time. Only they understand how to control their emotions and feelings. I realised that time when I went to see my ex the second time. I tried to 'talk' things through and plan how we could make it work next year. I realised that all my sweet talking meant nothing if she was not feeling that she should take the plunge with me. Hence why I believe that only if WE feel good, will our exes take an interest in us again. They will want to be around good feelings again

 

That's true. It's like how if someone has a problem, and even if you see it and point it out, they're not really going to get it until they realize it themselves and take control. Which is why us meddling in our exes' stuff isn't going to help anything -- if anything, I've realized it's a delay. If anything, we should consider ourselves lucky that the people we love are people who have managed to get to a point where they realize that THEY are part of the problem and that they need to fix themselves in order to be capable of being good partners. I guess I just sometimes wonder how will Evan know when I'm doing better? Or does he even care? Those are thoughts that I guess sort of feed into my fear that when HE feels better, he'll be like, 'Forget it,' and then move on. Frankly, some comments on this board don't help me shake that D:

 

Good point! Hence why gym will make me confident and appealing haha

 

I also highly suggest crime fighting for maximum appeal.

 

I am happy for you that you are learning to live in the moment (very hard to do!). I went out last night and had a blast with friends. For the first time in a long time, I wasn't constantly thinking of my ex, which was refreshing for a change! When you see him again, you want to be in your prime form emotionally and mentally so that you can handle the situation calmly and dispassionately.

 

Haha, and I went out last night! Was out on the block until like 5am. It was kind of nice to feel like I could even go out with mutual friends of ours and have fun without him. I did talk a little bit about him to one of my friends, but he's a very good listener and he hadn't heard about the letter yet, so I wanted to tell him. Anyway, it's so weird for me to think that I want to get to a place where I don't care, but I keep reminding myself that it's not about whether or not I care ABOUT him, just about the situation. That helps me because it depresses me thinking that the goal is to cast him off. That is the last thing I'd ever want.

 

I also think like that at times. But then I was thinking to myself that there is quite simply nothing one can do. In our cases, in any event, I think that it is our exes who need to make the next step. We have stated our cases and I think that if the ex is in love with us and it is meant to be, they will let us know! Other than that, I try not to think about what my ex is or isn't doing. Hence, NC to the max!

 

You're too right about that. And I have been told that time isn't the worst thing... that you should almost worry if the ex comes back too quickly. I guess I have to remember that I know exactly what is going on and shouldn't start creating stories and worries for myself, because that is a thing I do tend to do. I know what's going on, accept it, and just potter along and see. Maybe it's the control freak in me or something, but arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh~!!!! Haha XD

 

It is so weird but all those I have spoken to say that the moment their exes came back was when they GOT OVER the ex. This sounds completely counter-intuitive but I strongly believe it. Once we take our ex off the pedestal and genuinely FEEL good about our lives, our exes will see that we can live without them. If ever there was an expression of confidence it would be that! Easier said than done, but I am finally reaching a stage where I genuinely believe that my ex is missing out on so many fun things that she might wait very long to get to do again.

 

I guess that's true. Maybe that's part of our own challenge of reminding ourselves that we are people worth being around. For me, it's really easy to get to thinking like, 'Ohhh, there are so many other pretty girls in this city so why would he ever want to come back to me?' I don't give myself enough credit, and even right there is something that I should start taking and turning around in my head. I'm getting better at catching this stuff, but maybe when I'm a pro at it, it won't be so horrifying for me to think about this stuff. Like, step one is for me to stop thinking, 'OMG, he's so awesome, why would he want me,' and turn it into, 'He's DAMN LUCKY that I love him!'

 

I will still get to your letter. Busy weekend haha!

 

Word, son.

 

I will tell you that I GENUINELY thought I had her back. It was like nothing ever changed and it felt so right. I still remember her face when she saw me at the door, I will forever carry that memory with me, so beautiful The weirdest thing is just how natural it all felt.

 

I don't think it's weird. I think it's a good reminder that there's more there than just another notch in the lipstick case, as it were. Surely she must have felt it too since things seemed to go on so smoothly that she had to actually lay out her feelings with a proper discussion a little after the fact. It's not like you showed up there and one of you very quickly figured out that it wasn't right. (And not in the sense that she was like this isn't what I want, but like... wrong... I think you know what I mean.) I mean, again, I wasn't there, but from what you're saying, that's kind of my gut reaction to it.

 

Talking with friends who care is so beneficial to helping get through this because they bring a different spin on how you see the situation and help you get rid of the destructive self-blame.

 

Seriously. And it helps identifying the friends that are good at talking about these things in a constructive manner. I don't really get very close to people easily, but the people I AM close to are the ones I know I can talk to ad nauseum about the same thing like every day, and they're still supportive. That bit you have there about destructive self-blame -- story of my life. But what's helped me figure out who's a keeper and who's not are the ones who either help me cut that out or who end up saying things that just make it worse.

 

In many ways I am happy we have not continued messaging each other because in this way we are preventing us falling to being friends. And you know what they say about falling into the friend zone! Only one role: lover, not friend! Hahah

 

Friends isn't always the worst thing. I forgot to mention this to you, but I have ANOTHER friend who broke up with her boyfriend, his reason for the break up being that he missed his friendship with her -- that he felt the seriousness of the relationship was starting to strain things. And they went back to friends, though they didn't talk too much in the six months they were broken up. But I think the issue with being friends isn't so much friendship, but that being friends can keep you from working through the issues, whether it's to reconcile or move on. I realize this most because Evan and I were both really trying hard to be bros, and we both said it was because we were too important to one another to not be in each other's lives. But it really wasn't until I threw NC into the mix that he really seemed to turn it around. Something similar happened once before when we had like a month of stress... NC made him turn it around. It's because of that that I really understand why sometimes people really need to be removed from the situation to get their head on straight. Which is hard for me to conceptualize because I'm hands on and I like to feel like I'm DOING something to fix it.

 

Thank you! I hope that life gives me happiness and that I will be able to share that again with that someone special.

 

Me too!! For both of us!! But I feel like for people like us, we can't be so hopeless that there's nothing there. Because we are genuine, and that is really lacking in this world. To quote Evan's letter, bwahahaha.

 

Hope you're having an excellent Saturday!

 

HAPPY SUNDAY BRO.