To have children.....or not to have children....that is the question!!

[Moose]

If you don't want to be criticized don't post on a public board. I think I have a right to be concerned with the men and women that bring children into the world and don't take the time to seriously consider the responsibility of raising a child. It's more than than just cuddling them and having them admire you as a person. Your boyfriend may realize this and is making the responsible decision in not having children because he is not willing to make the sacrifice it takes to raise a child.

 

Be concerned all you want. Just because her boyfriend may realize the responisibilties to be too much for him to bear, doesn't consititute making a decision for the both of them which is why she posted here in the first place. She has a decision to make, to stay with someone who doesn't want kids, or to move on.....you tear her apart by assuming she doesn't know what kind of dedication it takes to raise a child. Judge not.

 

The point was made simply on the basis that, for you and Moose, your boyfriend's lack of desire to have children is selfish, yet your desire is completely unselfish. Unfortunately, I refuse to make the assumption that just because you want to have children you have no selfish motives. Many people have children for the wrong reasons, even when they've planned and organized, so by narrowing it down to just two instances is a little too simplistic when discussing such an important topic.

 

No! The selfishness that I spoke of was because his reasoning meant that he would have to give up HIS time and HIS money to accept the responsibilty of raising a child. Her desire to have a child and provide that child with a great life isn't being selfish. It's completing her life.....HER LIFE, maybe that's why you view it as selfish...I view it as a wonderfull experience in which all should be selfish enough and fortunate enough to have. It's a priveleage to have a child, some women aren't able to.

 

Viewing motherhood (parenting) as an idealistic euphoria is a very immature way of viewing the responsibilities one incurs after creating life and creates the potential for a lot of disillusioned parents. It's too late to change your mind once the child is born - my post(s) wanted to be sure to point out that having children is not a selfless act. Anyone can breed, that doesn't mean we're all supposed to.

 

Again, you're judging this woman simply by something she wrote. You don't know here at all, and neither do I. I'm not trying to change your mind, you have a right to your opinion.....as wrong as I believe it to be.

[bulldoggirl]

I know Pocky has been getting some flack for her posts, but I tend to agree with her on alot of points....the biggest one being that many people DO have this idealistic view of what it will be like with kids, but then the realization hits them like a ton of bricks once the kid is here. All you have to do is read some books on the subject, right now I'm reading "I'm Okay, You're a Brat" by Susan Jeffers, and it really uncovers the "taboo" subject of feeling like you're in over your head and/or parenting isn't all it's cracked up to be. Personally I commend the original posters boyfriend for being honest about his feelings on the subject & having the guts to take an honest look at how he would be as a parent because too many people don't do that.

[Pocky]

.....you tear her apart by assuming she doesn't know what kind of dedication it takes to raise a child. Judge not.

 

I didn't tear her apart - so melodramatic. Questioning someone's intentions when it comes to breeding children is the responsibility of everyone.

 

No! The selfishness that I spoke of was because his reasoning meant that he would have to give up HIS time and HIS money to accept the responsibilty of raising a child.

 

Isn't that one of the things people need to consider before they raise a child? Isn't that something each of us should ask ourselves before we decide to bring another life into the world? How many families do we have now where both parents are too concerned with work or too concerned with their career that they don't even take the time to raise their children? How many parents are in the world now that really shouldn't be parents but are simply because it's "what we do.."?

 

Her desire to have a child and provide that child with a great life isn't being selfish. It's completing her life.....HER LIFE, maybe that's why you view it as selfish...I view it as a wonderfull experience in which all should be selfish enough and fortunate enough to have. It's a priveleage to have a child, some women aren't able to.

 

When did I say providing a child with a great life was being selfish? It is a privilege to have a child - one that people shouldn't take flippantly. I questioned her reasons for having a child based solely on what she wrote in her own words. Her use of words created a very selfish image and I commented on that. I never said she was a bad person or would be a bad mother. I merely pointed out that the reasons she listed as important for her to have a child seemed selfish to me.

 

If all of you are so incapable of being questioned and criticized then don't come to a public forum and ask advice on your personal business. It's not an attack - it's a different view and unfortunately not all views are going to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

Again, you're judging this woman simply by something she wrote.

 

It's a forum based solely on exchanged text. That's how we communicate here - we write. If she miscommunicated then that's understandable, but to make the claim that I'm doing something unwarranted is completely absurd.

 

You don't know here at all, and neither do I.

 

That has nothing to do with it. She posted and I responded to her post. I responded to what she said. I didn't make assumptions based on any predetermined image or expectation of her. I responded to her words and how she used them to convey what she felt and wanted. If she used the wrong words - then okay it happens. If that's not what she meant - then okay it happens. But don't chastise for responding to her words when that is the whole foundation of this mode of communication.

[Moose]

I'm sorry Pocky.....I would wager that the original poster will watch carefully how she writes in here from now on.....

 

You're right, going off of just the way she wrote it did seem selfish...I admit....maybe you and I both should've asked for more clarity?

[Pocky]

I'm sorry Pocky.....I would wager that the original poster will watch carefully how she writes in here from now on.....

 

Stop apologizing, Moose. I'm starting to get a crush on you.

 

You're right, going off of just the way she wrote it did seem selfish...I admit....maybe you and I both should've asked for more clarity?

 

Yeah - more clarity would have been good. Next time I'll ask for clarification and if they still sound selfish then I'll sock it to em!

[Elmo]

Some people do have children for selfish reasons. Some don't.

 

An ever increasing number of women get pregnant to "hold on to" a man. This pretty much never works, anyway and is ultra selfish.

 

Some women want to opt out of a job and have a child so they can stay home. (A job meaning one that you are being paid for.)

 

Some men and women want to see their DNA replicants out of vanity. Totally selfish. This wears off very, very quickly. Especially when kids outgrow the "cute" phase at around 7 or 8.

 

Well, I could go on, but you get my drift.

 

Also, there is a biological urge that alot of women get in their mid twenties to mid thirties. My friends call it baby rabies. I know a few smart women that went with this feeling, even though they were in bad marriages or not even married or didn't have sound finances. Everything became about them and the pregnancy. Totally selfish and self centered. These women, to a one, ended up being extremely unhappy once the new wore off the baby.

 

I wanted a child during my first marriage, but my husband was a real control freak and I decided that I would not put a kid through that kind of upbringing. It was a selfless act to NOT have a kid, even though my biological urges were red hot.

 

I left that dope and married a wonderful guy. Now, I don't want kids. We are happy the way we are. Are we selfish? I don't think so.

 

I also know some 2 parent households that have a reasonable amount of kids (i.e., ones they can actually provide for without handouts) that both the mom and dad agreed on how many and when to have them. These people are not selfish.

 

I know one thing for sure. If a man is waffleing about not having kids, then says okay, one, when he is being nagged....that man is not going to be real into it. It is this kind of woman that I have little sympathy for after the kid is born and the guy wants to keep going out with his buddies instead of helping to change poopey diapers. PLS LISTEN TO YOUR PARTNER AND DON'T THINK YOU OR A BABY CAN CHANGE HIM/HER. PEOPLE RARELY CHANGE!

[ziggue]

I've seen some of my friends have kids. Some of them are single mums. One has a kid to her partner. We are all in our mid 20s. Seen how hard it is. Seen what the kids are like at certain stages.

 

Think I will wait till I am like 30. Lol.

 

I know this girl I know had her first kid when she was 17. She is now 23 and her son is 6. Ready to go back to school. We were all thinking great she will be able to get back to work. Then she gets pregnant. She even admitted to planning it like that. I wonder why? . Guess she doesn't have to work for the next couple of years now.

 

7 months later she found out her boyfriend had cheated on her while they were together. . Probably even when she was pregnant. They broke up for a couple of weeks. Got back together. . The guys a real loser. Still. It's her choice I guess. .

 

I agree with the other post. Have one kid first then decide on how many you want after. It will probably be a real eye opener for you. I don't even have kids and I even saw kind of what it was/is like through my friends.

[morrigan]

Originally posted by Elmo

 

I know one thing for sure. If a man is waffleing about not having kids, then says okay, one, when he is being nagged....that man is not going to be real into it.

 

Definitely do not marry anyone who doesn't agree on having children, or hasn't ever truly discussed how many children they would like to have. This should be brought up in any long term relationship--before an engagement/marriage and it turns out that the other person doesn't have the same love of children that you do.

 

Anybody that waffles or hedges on the subject of kids is not ready to be a parent. Maybe they will change their mind, but someone else can't change it for them.